Apun94
Hall of Fame
He played like 2 tournaments against international teams. Doesnt count.Jordan has won two gold medals both against international competition (obviously)
Try again.
LOL
He played like 2 tournaments against international teams. Doesnt count.Jordan has won two gold medals both against international competition (obviously)
Try again.
That’s because America is the best at basketball.Still, he only dominated in his own country. Not saying much
Wait there’s countries outside of America? Where are they? And when did they get there?
I find it hard to compare across sports so I just give the advantage to those athletes whose sport I follow.Messi is just below Ali for me but if he wins a World Cup I might change my mind on that.
He is by far the GOAT of football though.
I don't think anyone has a flawless record of perfect performances on biggest stages. We wouldn't be having this discussion if someone else converted chances before the shootout(s).Errr. Is that the same Messi that missed the Penalty Shot in the Copa America Final in 2016?
For sure nobody is perfect, but the #1 does not miss in those situations.
You defending Messi for losing to Chile twice while having Alexis avis recently is kinda funny.I find it hard to compare across sports so I just give the advantage to those athletes whose sport I follow.
I don't think anyone has a flawless record of perfect performances on biggest stages. We wouldn't be having this discussion if someone else converted chances before the shootout(s).
Obviously lack of success in international football stinks but overall when you watch everything he has done I think it's clear the guy is up there with anyone else.
I don't think anyone has a flawless record of perfect performances on biggest stages. We wouldn't be having this discussion if someone else converted chances before the shootout(s).
Obviously lack of success in international football stinks but overall when you watch everything he has done I think it's clear the guy is up there with anyone else.
Don’t even try and compare that penalty merchant to King MessiYou defending Messi for losing to Chile twice while having Alexis avis recently is kinda funny.
True greats have success on both fronts, no?
Kidding kidding
Messi has a bigger case than Pete does in his sport IMO. Also, recency bias for the win.Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Cristiano Ronaldo, George Best.
Messi is certainly in that group but it is a bit of stretch to suggest he is #1.
Like saying Sampras is #1 in a group that comprises Laver, Borg, Nadal, and Federer.
You're right. CL GOAT, all time great of two massive clubs and winner of an international honor really shouldn't be compared to Messi.Don’t even try and compare that penalty merchant to King Messi
All of those are great players but Messi is something else.Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Cristiano Ronaldo, George Best.
Messi is certainly in that group but it is a bit of stretch to suggest he is #1.
Like saying Sampras is #1 in a group that comprises Laver, Borg, Nadal, and Federer.
He didn’t even play in the final of that international honor mateYou're right. CL GOAT, all time great of two massive clubs and winner of an international honor really shouldn't be compared to Messi.
He did for 25 minutes before getting injured (then turned into manager's assistant after ), don't spread fake news mate.He didn’t even play in the final of that international honor mate
Eder>>>>>>>RonaldoHe did for 25 minutes before getting injured (then turned into manager's assistant after ), don't spread fake news mate.
Eder>>>>>>>Ronaldo
I wish I knew how to post gifs because I had a certain Ronaldo gif in mind...
Same as normal images. Next to smileys.I wish I knew how to post gifs because I had a certain Ronaldo gif in mind...
I fail at posting gifs.Same as normal images. Next to smileys.
Don't see it. Copy the URL into the tab, or just drag the gif from the other browser.
Federer had basicly no competition in the middle of his prime from 2003 to 2007/10 where he won the majority of his slams.Though with less Slams than Serena, he is greater than her because of the lack of competition Serena had in women tennis.
Serena did not have to compete with rivals of the importance of Nadal and Djokovic in her tour.
Imagine the analogy of Federer having the type of competition Serena had. How many Slams would he have had? 25/30+ is not a crazy number to figure.
Lol who was Serena's biggest competition? Her older sister? Lol what a joke.Federer had basicly no competition in the middle of his prime from 2003 to 2007/10 where he won the majority of his slams.
Nadal (only on clay and grass....And i would hardly call Nadal great competition on grass) and especially djokovic became competition at the end of the decade 09/10.
Serena had much better competition from 99-09/10. So Many players that were actual viable threats unlike only Nadal and djokovic.
And don't give me shtick of Federer having better longevity than serena. Serena has been around since 1999. Fed won his first slam in 2003. Serena will be back on tour this season and will probably be back in the top 10 with a slam with a slam which is going on 19 years between her first and last slam wins. Fed is still well behind on that
Lol and you are the same people who believe that by winning the 'World' Series, that team is the best in the world. LOLThat’s because America is the best at basketball.
I hate baseball so nah.Lol and you are the same people who believe that by winning the 'World' Series, that team is the best in the world. LOL
The point is, all 'American' sports are marketed in a way that make it seem that just by winning in the US, one has virtually defeated the best in the world, which isnt necessarily the caseI hate baseball so nah.
I agree but in terms of basketball we are the best in the world. (Our Olympic record proves this)The point is, all 'American' sports are marketed in a way that make it seem that just by winning in the US, one has virtually defeated the best in the world, which isnt necessarily the case
Basketball is hardly global? Why don’t you tell Spain, Turkey, France, Argentina, Serbia, etc. That?Jordan played a sport that - let's face it - is hardly global (international competitions are few and far between) and whose highest level is played in a niche that doesn't even qualify as the most important of the niche sports in the USA. Let's not compare it to the fully international attributes of tennis, which is played everywhere, in every country, and where the best players are being tested worldwide, without a barrier that clearly separates the top league (i.e. NBA) from the rest of the world. Jordan is great, but the greatest in tennis will always be greater than the greatest in hoopball.
Basketball is hardly global? Why don’t you tell Spain, Turkey, France, Argentina, Serbia, etc. That?
Turkey and Spain both have a national league.Sure, but how often do they play the US or even amongst each other?
The sport is just not organised in a way that would make an overall sports GOAT conversation plausible.
Turkey and Spain both have a national league.
Basketball is one of the most popular sports in Turkey and usually only falls behind football. (Soccer)
Agree to disagree then.It's just not comparable, sorry.
Jordan played a sport that - let's face it - is hardly global (international competitions are few and far between) and whose highest level is played in a niche that doesn't even qualify as the most important of the niche sports in the USA.
Agree to disagree then.
I’m a huge fan of basketball and tennis but Jordan is by far the superior athlete to Federer.
Jordan’s athleticism was astounding.
You’d honestly be surprised by just how popular basketball is worldwide.Well, as usual in these debates, we need to define what we mean by GOAT and what we're comparing.
For some people it's about titles, for others it's athleticism or domination, etc.
And within these categories there are additional problems, like comparing titles across sports (it's difficult enough to compare across eras within a single sport), defining what "athleticism" is, figuring out what domination means in each sport, agreeing on criteria that make it possible to compare team sports to individual sports, etc.
In my opinion, Americans and other nationalities that happen to be good at basketball overvalue the importance of basketball as a worldwide sport.
I’m a huge fan of basketball and tennis but Jordan is by far the superior athlete to Federer.
The nature of basketball means it can't be global (like tennis is). You can't be flying tens of thousands of players worldwide every other day. By your logic, football (soccer) is hardly global. Cricket is hardly global. Table tennis is hardly global.
The reality is that basketball has a larger worldwide field at the professional level than tennis does. Basketball also has more global recreational players than tennis does. The sport is simply more accessible than tennis.
You’d honestly be surprised by just how popular basketball is worldwide.
Messi has a bigger case than Pete does in his sport IMO. Also, recency bias for the win.
Messi and Ronaldo both have the same number of UCLs.I know this debate is a lot of subjectivity, but let me know when Messi has 3 World Cups on his own. Or 1 WC and 1 runner up being the only decent player in his team like Maradona in 1990
The team Messi "took" to the finals was decent. In fact, he did not appear a lot in that finals and he was not even the best in the WC no matter the prize he received at the end of the tournament.
Messi, at club level, is really tough to be compared to any other footballer bar Ronaldo. And if we go at achievements and goals, Ronaldo has more UCL's than him. And in no way I can say Messi is better than Ronaldo, Messi is way better than the diver
Well then, if sports are different by nature what's the use of a GOAT debate across sports?
I ask myself the same question every time one of these idiotic threads is created. Instead of sticking to the thread subject -- which is who is more accomplished in their sport -- the debate quickly ends up being about how much skill a sport requires compared to other sports which is completely stupid. Because for those who think tennis is the most complex... they know it is the only way that Federer can win the original argument.
Messi and Ronaldo both have the same number of UCLs.
Also Pele played in an era of bums and alcoholics he can’t be compared to King Leo.
Who was feds from 03-09?Lol who was Serena's biggest competition? Her older sister? Lol what a joke.
Yeah but Fedr lost to Peak Donskoy last year tooWe can remove Brady from this discussion now.
He just got outplayed by Eagles backup QB.
Ali is the greatest athlete of all time imo.Yeah but Fedr lost to Peak Donskoy last year too
Roger is def my pick out of those mentioned in the OP.
Ali, Pele, and Bradman are others that need to be considered too though
Yeah, I think he probably has to be the greatest athlete. Boxing is one of the purest contests of athleticism too.Ali is the greatest athlete of all time imo.
Fed is amazing but no one will ever have the influence and impact Ali had on the world.
I think athlete can just mean general athletic ability while sportsman can mean impact, influence, etc.Yeah, I think he probably has to be the greatest athlete. Boxing is one of the purest contests of athleticism too.
Is "greatest sportsman" a different thing than "greatest athlete", in your opinion?