For non-fans of Djokovic...

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
This is not hate. I think he's a great guy, charming, intelligent and in all ways likeable. I don't like the heart thing, but that's about it. He's good at languages and he seems both kind and thoughtful.

I'll continue standing up for him as a player. I think he has at least a good shot at becoming the best of this era. If he equals Fed's major tally, that part is done for me. He'll be the best of this century so far, case closed.

But I just can't get excited about his tennis. I've tried. I know he can stretch in a way that is super-human, and I get why his fans love his playing. If you like someone who almost never misses, who is a master of tactics and who is at least as good as anyone else who has ever played the game at defense, you have to love this guy. But if you like a very aggressive shot-maker, someone who is going to light up highlight reels with the things we used to see from Becker, and Edberg, and Sampras, and of course Federer, you just aren't going to see that from Novak.

I'm afraid he's going to go on sucking up all the most important titles for years, and I can see myself no longer watching as much tennis as I used to.

How many other people here feel the same way?

I recorded the Paris final today, hoping to see a real battle, but Shapo looked average and helpless. I'm not sure if this is his real level against a really good player, or if he lost his confidence and belief that he could win a big title. But it seems like the only people who can give Djokovic a battle when it's really important are all gone.

Fed can't beat him. Nadal apparently can't beat him off clay. Stan will probably never get back to his former level, so that match-up is gone. Unless one of the younger guys finally steps up and finds an answer to Ultron, who is going to stop him from winning everything in the future off clay?
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Garry, sorry but this seems to be butt hurt ;)

Novak has many, many more tennis wise you don't want to see, because he is doing what he is doing to your guy and his legacy... You can't see that, but its ok, it psychological thing ;)

By the way, this your statement is well known on this forum, because you write similar thing quite often... But, its ok too, let this salt flow, it should be easier...

PS, I also know you are nice guy, just think you should keep this dark thoughts for your self...
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Medvedev? It seems like Djokovic has had trouble with him recently, and Tsitsipas is only going to get better against Novak. There's no way Djokovic will go uncontested, especially with off days happening more and more often.
I'd like to think you are right, but so far I don't see any evidence that his peak game is not the same. I have zero confidence that Novak would not have won the USO this year if he had been healthy. His return numbers are damned high again this year, and his service game is way better than back in 2011. The only thing I see is less hunger in M1000s.
 

OhYes

Legend
This is not hate. I think he's a great guy, charming, intelligent and in all ways likeable. I don't like the heart thing, but that's about it. He's good at languages and he seems both kind and thoughtful.

I'll continue standing up for him as a player. I think he has at least a good shot at becoming the best of this era. If he equals Fed's major tally, that part is done for me. He'll be the best of this century so far, case closed.

But I just can't get excited about his tennis. I've tried. I know he can stretch in a way that is super-human, and I get why his fans love his playing. If you like someone who almost never misses, who is a master of tactics and who is at least as good as anyone else who has ever played the game at defense, you have to love this guy. But if you like a very aggressive shot-maker, someone who is going to light up highlight reels with the things we used to see from Becker, and Edberg, and Sampras, and of course Federer, you just aren't going to see that from Novak.

I'm afraid he's going to go on sucking up all the most important titles for years, and I can see myself no longer watching as much tennis as I used to.

How many other people here feel the same way?

I recorded the Paris final today, hoping to see a real battle, but Shapo looked average and helpless. I'm not sure if this is his real level against a really good player, or if he lost his confidence and belief that he could win a big title. But it seems like the only people who can give Djokovic a battle when it's really important are all gone.

Fed can't beat him. Nadal apparently can't beat him off clay. Stan will probably never get back to his former level, so that match-up is gone. Unless one of the younger guys finally steps up and finds an answer to Ultron, who is going to stop him from winning everything in the future off clay?
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
This is not hate. I think he's a great guy, charming, intelligent and in all ways likeable. I don't like the heart thing, but that's about it. He's good at languages and he seems both kind and thoughtful.

I'll continue standing up for him as a player. I think he has at least a good shot at becoming the best of this era. If he equals Fed's major tally, that part is done for me. He'll be the best of this century so far, case closed.

But I just can't get excited about his tennis. I've tried. I know he can stretch in a way that is super-human, and I get why his fans love his playing. If you like someone who almost never misses, who is a master of tactics and who is at least as good as anyone else who has ever played the game at defense, you have to love this guy. But if you like a very aggressive shot-maker, someone who is going to light up highlight reels with the things we used to see from Becker, and Edberg, and Sampras, and of course Federer, you just aren't going to see that from Novak.

I'm afraid he's going to go on sucking up all the most important titles for years, and I can see myself no longer watching as much tennis as I used to.

How many other people here feel the same way?

I recorded the Paris final today, hoping to see a real battle, but Shapo looked average and helpless. I'm not sure if this is his real level against a really good player, or if he lost his confidence and belief that he could win a big title. But it seems like the only people who can give Djokovic a battle when it's really important are all gone.

Fed can't beat him. Nadal apparently can't beat him off clay. Stan will probably never get back to his former level, so that match-up is gone. Unless one of the younger guys finally steps up and finds an answer to Ultron, who is going to stop him from winning everything in the future off clay?
Say it again lol. Just soooo boring.
 

OhYes

Legend
Exactly, and in how many h2h matches Novak was more aggressive than Federer, having more winners, and in which Fed ran more than Novak....

But, as I said, its psychological thing... They just can't see what they don't want to see....
At the end of day Fed fans will leave with only one thing that nobody can disapprove - Fed has beautiful backhand ;) and that's about it.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Lol, Fed fans have same kind of story for Nadal game, just its time for bashing Novak...

You really are so epic, looool...
Im not bashing Novak, believe me I would love to find him entertaining. No one is saying he isn't GREAT. He's one of the best players to ever hold a racquet in his hand. But his game has absolutely zero pizazz and is like watching a ball machine that doesn't tire just somehow win rallies. The guy is boring man lol, it is what it is. He's the Lance Storm of tennis.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Im not bashing Novak, believe me I would love to find him entertaining. No one is saying he isn't GREAT. He's one of the best players to ever hold a racquet in his hand. But his game has absolutely zero pizazz and is like watching a ball machine that doesn't tire just somehow win rallies. The guy is boring man lol, it is what it is. He's the Lance Storm of tennis.
He's boring but the guy standing 10m behind the baseline looping topspin FHs into the BH corner ad nauseum is exciting? Okay then
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Garry, sorry but this seems to be butt hurt ;)

Novak has many, many more tennis wise you don't want to see, because he is doing what he is doing to your guy and his legacy... You can't see that, but its ok, it psychological thing ;)
You probably won't believe me, but I'll lose no sleep at all if someone breaks Fed's records. I'm just not made that way, and I don't believe in the whole GOAT thing. What I'm hungry for is a kind of flair that seems to have disappeared at the top of the game. And maybe it's just not possible now. I like attacking tennis.
PS, I also know you are nice guy, just think you should keep this dark thoughts for your self...
I think you are saying that I have no right to have a preference for a particular style of tennis, which by the way may not even be possible now. ;)
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
There will always be people that like explosive attacking tennis players, and there will always be people that like stifling backboards. I am speaking here for their natural tennis. For example Nadal morphed into a defensive player under the tutelage of Toni Nadal, which I believe was not his natural style. Djokovic is the opposite in that regard: he was a much more attacking player when he was younger and wasn't relying on extreme court coverage and little UE, but eventually his natural style came to the fore, and he became the player that he is.

:cool:
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
This is not hate. I think he's a great guy, charming, intelligent and in all ways likeable. I don't like the heart thing, but that's about it. He's good at languages and he seems both kind and thoughtful.

I'll continue standing up for him as a player. I think he has at least a good shot at becoming the best of this era. If he equals Fed's major tally, that part is done for me. He'll be the best of this century so far, case closed.

But I just can't get excited about his tennis. I've tried. I know he can stretch in a way that is super-human, and I get why his fans love his playing. If you like someone who almost never misses, who is a master of tactics and who is at least as good as anyone else who has ever played the game at defense, you have to love this guy. But if you like a very aggressive shot-maker, someone who is going to light up highlight reels with the things we used to see from Becker, and Edberg, and Sampras, and of course Federer, you just aren't going to see that from Novak.

I'm afraid he's going to go on sucking up all the most important titles for years, and I can see myself no longer watching as much tennis as I used to.

How many other people here feel the same way?

I recorded the Paris final today, hoping to see a real battle, but Shapo looked average and helpless. I'm not sure if this is his real level against a really good player, or if he lost his confidence and belief that he could win a big title. But it seems like the only people who can give Djokovic a battle when it's really important are all gone.

Fed can't beat him. Nadal apparently can't beat him off clay. Stan will probably never get back to his former level, so that match-up is gone. Unless one of the younger guys finally steps up and finds an answer to Ultron, who is going to stop him from winning everything in the future off clay?
Dear Gary, this is a great thread.

For me, Djokovic has aesthetically the most pleasing tennis. I particularly like his ability to deconstruct opponent's game (find smallest imperfections that will cause a defeat) and his (unique) ability to be in the right position when hitting a ball (all players aim to do that, but Djokovic is the only one that would be frozen in the right position irrespective how difficult shot is to follow). For me, watching Djokovic play is poetry. In terms of play (and to make it closer to you), I see Djokovic as Chopin's etude, Federer "Rock Around the Clock" and Nadal as a Hard Rock.
 
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Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
In other words Gary, this what you stated is just subjective feeling that you can't help get rid of.
Nothing to do with Djokovic, he was and always will be just an obstacle for Fedal fans.
I don't think that's true. I think it's about the style of tennis I prefer, but as I said, it is possible that this style of tennis no longer can win majors. Time will tell.
 

OhYes

Legend
Im not bashing Novak, believe me I would love to find him entertaining. No one is saying he isn't GREAT. He's one of the best players to ever hold a racquet in his hand. But his game has absolutely zero pizazz and is like watching a ball machine that doesn't tire just somehow win rallies. The guy is boring man lol, it is what it is. He's the Lance Storm of tennis.
Didn't you think for one second that all of big 3 are boring to watch to neutrals ? We know their every move, we have seen thousands of their points and combinations, so many times they haven't been challenged properly, and you have the nerve as a Nadal fan to speak of 1 particular player as boring ?
They all are if competition is not good enough to give us a good fight with plenty of extraordinary moves.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
He's boring but the guy standing 10m behind the baseline looping topspin FHs into the BH corner ad nauseum is exciting? Okay then
Nadal is in the most epic matches of all time. The list is countless. He explodes off the court. His game is his own and no one can replicate it. You can't turn your eyes away, his biggest haters watch every match. No one cares about Novak, his haters (myself included) hardly ever watch him play. Zzzz. This is my kind of topic lol, bc on no planet in the universe does Djokovic play more exciting tennis than Nadal, sorry.
 

N01E

Professional
Djokovic is in the most epic matches of all time. The list is countless. He explodes off the court. His game is his own and no one can replicate it. You can't turn your eyes away, his biggest haters watch every match. No one cares about Rafa, his haters (myself included) hardly ever watch him play. Zzzz. This is my kind of topic lol, bc on no planet in the universe does Nadal play more exciting tennis than Djokovic, sorry.
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Im not bashing Novak, believe me I would love to find him entertaining. No one is saying he isn't GREAT. He's one of the best players to ever hold a racquet in his hand. But his game has absolutely zero pizazz and is like watching a ball machine that doesn't tire just somehow win rallies. The guy is boring man lol, it is what it is. He's the Lance Storm of tennis.
I understand that... But as I said many, many find Nadal's game sooo boring... Do you agree?
You can understand now that opinions are different, and that this matter is just too subjective?
Off course, you can keep thinking Novak's game is boring, me thinking Nadal's game is boring, and other thinking Fed's backhand and game beauty is sooo overrated....
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Dear Gary, this is a great thread.

For me, Djokovic has aesthetically the most pleasing tennis. I particularly like his ability to deconstruct opponent's game (find smallest imperfection that will cause a defeat) and his (unique) ability to be in the right position when hitting a ball (all players aim to do that, but Djokovic is the only one that would be frozen in the right position irrespective how difficult shot is to follow). For me, watching Djokovic play is poetry.
I won't argue with that at all, because decades ago I was a huge fan of Christ Evert, and she did the same thing. She was a master at being in the right place at the right time and picking the right shot, and she destroyed most other players with her mind. However, eventually there was an amazing contrast of styles between her and Navratilova.

Maybe my disappointment is that there is no one around who can play a contrasting style to Djokovic and win at least close to 50% of the time. Wawrinka, as good as he was at his best, was never a model for what I prefer. He hit with a lot of power, but he was still mostly a backcourt player. Sampras mostly dominated Agassi, but Agassi came away with some important wins, and there you have an incredible contrast in styles. Back when Mac was on top, anyone else almost always showed a great contrast because Mac was the most aggressive player. Connors had a Nadal-like intensity and hugged the baseline much more, but he was more of an all court player in that era, although back then almost anyone came to the next more than today's players because of the difference in the game.

I could not stand Mac, by the way. I thought he was a total jerk, an embarrassment because of his outburst and bratting behavior, so on the basis of my own preference for Borg you might think I hated his tennis. But I thought he was a magnificent guy to watch and probably would have been my favorite player if he had not been such an ugly human being.
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Nadal is in the most epic matches of all time. The list is countless. He explodes off the court. His game is his own and no one can replicate it. You can't turn your eyes away, his biggest haters watch every match. No one cares about Novak, his haters (myself included) hardly ever watch him play. Zzzz. This is my kind of topic lol, bc on no planet in the universe does Djokovic play more exciting tennis than Nadal, sorry.
Haha, its Novak who was in most epic matches, not Nadal (not bad himself)...
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Haha, its Novak who was in most epic matches, not Nadal (not bad himself)...
Hey, I mean Bret was amazing in the ring and a legend. But he wasn't Shawn Michaels. Eww, I couldn't imagine getting excited over bore-bot lol you can have every bit of his stretchy highlights. He plays like a limber Davydenko lol have at it.
 

Krish0608

Hall of Fame
Novak is a solid player. Yes, his play style has evolved into something "less exciting?". I wouldn't call it boring though. It's just become more clinical, robotic and predictable. But I think he's always able to switch gears and become very aggressive when he wants to. I still prefer his 2008 style. He used to be so aggressive and exciting to watch. And 2011 was just insane tennis, out and out. I would say then onwards, he's just become more clinical and less explosive. I still enjoy watching him play, when he's not playing Federer.
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Djokovic is in the most epic matches of all time. The list is countless. He explodes off the court. His game is his own and no one can replicate it. You can't turn your eyes away, his biggest haters watch every match. No one cares about Rafa, his haters (myself included) hardly ever watch him play. Zzzz. This is my kind of topic lol, bc on no planet in the universe does Nadal play more exciting tennis than Djokovic, sorry.
Haha, hilarious....
 
Yeah. I see what you mean. His 2015 was one of the boringest times I can ever remember in tennis. All I saw was a generic player doing everything by the book, no real flair to his game, nothing really to make him stand out. Things didn't exactly improve in 2016 and the main reason he got dethroned by Murray was because of injuries and general fatigue.

For some reason, his following stints of dominance have been far less boring than 2015 and I don't really mind watching him anymore. At this stage, I don't think anyone can deny that he is a great player who deserves his success.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Supporting defensive players (relatively speaking), is like cheering the unforced errors of your opponents: it is part of the winning strategy, but some won't/ cannot do it, because they know better.

:cool:
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Novak is a solid player. Yes, his play style has evolved into something "less exciting?". I wouldn't call it boring though. It's just become more clinical, robotic and predictable. But I think he's always able to switch gears and become very aggressive when he wants to. I still prefer his 2008 style. He used to be so aggressive and exciting to watch. And 2011 was just insane tennis, out and out. I would say then onwards, he's just become more clinical and less explosive. I still enjoy watching him play, when he's not playing Federer.
Bolded is contradiction... His game is actually most unpredictable of big 3 and its his strength...
 

papertank

Hall of Fame
Dear Gary, this is a great thread.

For me, Djokovic has aesthetically the most pleasing tennis. I particularly like his ability to deconstruct opponent's game (find smallest imperfections that will cause a defeat) and his (unique) ability to be in the right position when hitting a ball (all players aim to do that, but Djokovic is the only one that would be frozen in the right position irrespective how difficult shot is to follow). For me, watching Djokovic play is poetry. In terms of play (and to make it closer to you), I see Djokovic as Chopin's etude, Federer "Rock Around the Clock" and Nadal as a Hard Rock.
Interesting take but I think the exact opposite of you. Nadal is very naturally defensive and has trouble converting his game into offense. He's finally getting better at it these years but he has had a real problem over the years with being overly reliant on defense, especially on non-clay surfaces where his spin doesn't push the opponent back as much.

Djokovic on the other hand seems to play offensive much more naturally. One slip up from an opponent in a rally and Djokovic pounces and takes the momentum. He also usually has no trouble being the aggressor and hitting Nadal off the court when they play.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
No, actually most people find that certain wrestling you watch, cheap amusement with bad acting.
:-D I think it's time we make a thread asking who's more entertaining. I have a feeling Ultronians will be shooketh. (btw even MORE people think tennis is boring crap, so let's not go there)
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
At one point, I thought every new player would try to play the same way as Novak. Luckily, it's not happening - because it's quite obvious that Novak's prowess is impossible to replicate. His movement, placement and anticipation is truly special, as is his mental game. He is not playing the sort of tennis I personally enjoy the most, but what does that have to do with anything?

His offensive tennis cannot match Edberg, Becker, Sampras and Federer - the best attacking players in history - but they are history - while Novak is a modern player. And I guess there will be someone new who "invents the game again" somewhere down the line.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
At one point, I thought every new player would try to play the same way as Novak. Luckily, it's not happening - because it's quite obvious that Novak's prowess is impossible to replicate. His movement, placement and anticipation is truly special, as is his mental game. He is not playing the sort of tennis I personally enjoy the most, but what does that have to do with anything?

His offensive tennis cannot match Edberg, Becker, Sampras and Federer - the best attacking players in history - and they are history - while Novak is a modern player. And I guess there will be someone new who "invents the game again" somewhere down the line.
It's not just you ;)
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
At one point, I thought every new player would try to play the same way as Novak. Luckily, it's not happening - because it's quite obvious that Novak's prowess is impossible to replicate. His movement, placement and anticipation is truly special, as is his mental game. He is not playing the sort of tennis I personally enjoy the most, but what does that have to do with anything?

His offensive tennis cannot match Edberg, Becker, Sampras and Federer - the best attacking players in history - but they are history - while Novak is a modern player. And I guess there will be someone new who "invents the game again" somewhere down the line.
I don't think that Federer would have been "history", if the roles were reversed and he was the younger ATG, but, of course, that is only my opinion. The only basis for such statements is that currently Djokovic leads narrowly the duel between them.

:cool:
 

beard

Hall of Fame
You do realize you just confirmed beard's point ? :-D
No, actually most people find that certain wrestling you watch, cheap amusement with bad acting.
He can't understand that, just can't... Its as Cardashian thing, and other reality shows thing... Its popular in some layers of society, but if you want to be considered intellectual, educated, wide minded, don't mention you watch those shows...
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
He can't understand that, just can't... Its as Cardashian thing, and other reality shows thing... Its popular in some layers of society, but if you want to be considered intellectual, educated, wide minded, don't mention you watch those shows...
Lol the only thing you're "confirming" is you wouldn't know epicness if it sat on your face :D a night with me or a night w beard? :unsure:

 

beard

Hall of Fame
I don't think that Federer would have been "history", if the roles were reversed and he was the younger ATG, but, of course, that is only my opinion. The only basis for such statements is that currently Djokovic leads narrowly the duel between them.

:cool:
If he was younger he wouldn't be atg at all, he would be Tsitsipas level, but worst because Tsi at least has some ball down there... ;)
I can see expirience Novak and Nadal bashing young Fed right and left, till their retirement...
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
I don't think that Federer would have been "history", if the roles were reversed and he was the younger ATG, but, of course, that is only my opinion. The only basis for such statements is that currently Djokovic leads narrowly the duel between them.

:cool:
No, he is history because he is 38 years old and was trained to play a different brand of tennis. Novak has challenged the "paradigm" of "classic" tennis, like Nadal has. I was not trying to make this a H2H battle at all - I was just saying what I find so special about Djokovic :)

It is very likely that a younger, stronger Federer would have found ways to challenge Djokovic' game. We will never know.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Didn't you think for one second that all of big 3 are boring to watch to neutrals ? We know their every move, we have seen thousands of their points and combinations, so many times they haven't been challenged properly, and you have the nerve as a Nadal fan to speak of 1 particular player as boring ?
They all are if competition is not good enough to give us a good fight with plenty of extraordinary moves.
I know that tennis itself is just about the most boring, pointless thing in the world for people who don't like it. I live in a house where no one else even likes sports - any sports. I don't disagree with your points, but I don't understand your attack:

"and you have the nerve as a Nadal fan to speak of 1 particular player as boring ?"

At this point I actually find myself rooting against Nadal in every match. First of all, I'm tired of the OCD rituals, the wasting of time and a few other things including what I think is over-the-top gamesmanship. I want to see younger players take over. The only reason I still enjoy watching Fed - when he can still play close to his best - is that in my mind there is no young player who clearly plays an attacking game and makes it work. Maybe Tsitsi comes close. That's why I was so excited to see Shapo playing aggressive tennis last week, and I would have rooted for him against Nadal because that's potentially what I like to watch.

For sure Nadal can be boring if he is not playing someone who contrasts his style. But if you have two players like Fed who are both winning almost all service games and there are not many breaks of serve, that's also boring to me.

When you talk about my "having the nerve" to enjoy this or that style of a sport, it's not the same as making a moral or ethical statement that is repugnant. It's just a preference for one style over another, not more important in the grand scheme of things than preferring one flavor of ice creams over another. ;)
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
No, he is history because he is 38 years old and was trained to play a different brand of tennis. Novak has challenged the "paradigm" of "classic" tennis, like Nadal has. I was not trying to make this a H2H battle at all - I was just saying what I find so special about Djokovic :)

It is very likely that a younger, stronger Federer would have found ways to challenge Djokovic' game. We will never know.
Respectively, my comment has absolutely nothing to do with h2hs. I was talking about exactly what you here reconfirm (and I understood it as such the first time) as position: that the brand of tennis Djokovic plays is better than what Federer plays. What I said means that I don't believe that Djokovic's brand of tennis would have brought him success vs Federer's brand of tennis, if the roles were reversed. My remark about the narrow lead was to illustrate that some of that illusion might be maintained because of the lead that currently Djokovic has over Federer. Then again, I deliberately emphasised that it is very very narrow (to this very day).

BTW, I don't see Nadal and Djokovic being on the same plane as far as challenging "the paradigm of classical tennis".

:cool:
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
An aspect of what makes Djokovic not relatable to is the lack of finesse. I wouldn't say that he is "awkward" as his overall level is too high for such a statement, but he lacks the inherent elegance that only certain feel for the game/ball can produce. I think that that leaves his game too "bare", thus leading to it being defined as "mechanical". Many people latch onto the idea that that is what brings him success, and is thus "justified" or even "deliberate", but I don't see how that can be concluded at all (not that I think it is true at all, but that is something to talk about).

:cool:
 

Tennisbg

Semi-Pro
But I just can't get excited about his tennis. I've tried. I know he can stretch in a way that is super-human, and I get why his fans love his playing. If you like someone who almost never misses, who is a master of tactics and who is at least as good as anyone else who has ever played the game at defense, you have to love this guy. But if you like a very aggressive shot-maker, someone who is going to light up highlight reels with the things we used to see from Becker, and Edberg, and Sampras, and of course Federer, you just aren't going to see that from Novak.
At least for me, his game is exciting. It's like chess, slowly taking advantage and then forcing the end. Big hitters can make great points but sometimes also really bad as they tend to have off matches where they spray errors.
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Respectively, my comment has absolutely nothing to do with h2hs. I was talking about exactly what you here reconfirm (and I understood it as such the first time) as position: that the brand of tennis Djokovic plays is better than what Federer plays. What I said means that I don't believe that Djokovic's brand of tennis would have brought him success vs Federer's brand of tennis, if the roles were reversed. My remark about the narrow lead was to illustrate that some of that illusion might be maintained because of the lead that currently Djokovic has over Federer. Then again, I deliberately emphasised that it is very very narrow (to this very day).

BTW, I don't see Nadal and Djokovic being on the same plane as far as challenging "the paradigm of classical tennis".

:cool:
Bolded... Its your opinion and don't see its more valid than my opinion that he would be bashed by Rafole for many many years. Are you aware that Rafole became almost equal to Fed as soon as they emerged (Nad faster that Novak), in his best years, and theirs teen years. I can only imagine his desperation trying to beat atg players in his teen age when he was quite average player... Tsitsi if he's lucky (he would be better player than Tsi, obviously, but not atg level he is now)....
 
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