For people who can't seem to figure out NTRP ratings (lancernrg needs to most help)

goober

Legend
well yea i am awful. if someone asked me i wouldnt rate myself higher than 2.5 thats why when i saw the videos i was shocked, because i think i am better than that. i guess i am biased...

no i have never played them. i am basing it on the video alone. i had no idea maverick is in the mid atlantic. he should join the chapter, and i would love to play with him :)

You need to get some competitive USTA league play under your belt. You are going through what a lot of players (especially younger male ones) go through when they start out tennis. They start out hitting their ground strokes and serves hard. In practice they look great. They watch some players that are rated say 3.5-4.0 and look at their strokes and say to themselves "I can beat those players easily! Look how ugly they hit." Then they go out and play in a USTA tourney or league and lose to a middle aged, overweight guy who slices off both sides.

You may think I am joking, but it is a very common scenario. Maybe it won't be the case for you, but I wouldn't start bragging that you can beat people based on a video of their strokes until you can actually do it.
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
You need to get some competitive USTA league play under your belt. You are going through what a lot of players (especially younger male ones) go through when they start out tennis. They start out hitting their ground strokes and serves hard. In practice they look great. They watch some players that are rated say 3.5-4.0 and look at their strokes and say to themselves "I can beat those players easily! Look how ugly they hit." Then they go out and play in a USTA tourney or league and lose to a middle aged, overweight guy who slices off both sides.

You may think I am joking, but it is a very common scenario. Maybe it won't be the case for you, but I wouldn't start bragging that you can beat people based on a video of their strokes until you can actually do it.

yea i havent played any USTA matches. all teh matches i have played are mostly friendly ones, i still have yet to win a single match. usually i get bageled lol. i think even if i was better than a USTA person i would still lose a match because i dont have the match experience. that and i never keep score. and you are right i prefer hitting the ball hard, so it tends to go out a lot. i dont play for wins really. i just want to improve. slices are fine for me though. its the topspin that messes up my timing. and i am not bragging. how can a 2.5 brag??? i have yet to win a single match lol
 

goober

Legend
yea i havent played any USTA matches. all teh matches i have played are mostly friendly ones, i still have yet to win a single match. usually i get bageled lol. i think even if i was better than a USTA person i would still lose a match because i dont have the match experience. that and i never keep score. and you are right i prefer hitting the ball hard, so it tends to go out a lot. i dont play for wins really. i just want to improve. slices are fine for me though. its the topspin that messes up my timing. and i am not bragging. how can a 2.5 brag??? i have yet to win a single match lol

Well you just said you could beat some guys based on a video and they should be definitely rated lower than they are rated (implying that you hit better than them). Sorry if that sounds like bragging to me given you have only been playing a year and are unrated. So now you are saying you have never won a single match in your life and yet you are so sure you can beat these guys? Hmm ok
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
Well you just said you could beat some guys based on a video and they should be definitely rated lower than they are rated (implying that you hit better than them). Sorry if that sounds like bragging to me given you have only been playing a year and are unrated. So now you are saying you have never won a single match in your life and yet you are so sure you can beat these guys? Hmm ok

i wasnt trying to brag. i was just shocked when i saw the videos because i think i am better than the people in the clips. and i am pretty sure i suck so i said they must be rated lower than i am. but i guess i have never been rated. i would love to play them and find out how i do. i am saying i can hit better than those guys. in matches i dont know.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
The big problem here with this is people have very little perception of how they would look on video. So showing people video only helps them if they have video of themselves playing a match..

Video doesn't really capture the pace and feel of really being there. I was hitting with a guy who was a 4.0 and he was hitting pretty heavy topspin shots (at least it seemed like it to me) I am sure on video though it would just look like the "pusher" 4.0 guys.

Personally I think this a great post - very accurate for the most part. Yes 3.0 and 3.5 look horrific on video. In real life though they look like people that know how to play tennis. A 4.0 guy looks like a guy who is actually good at tennis..

Pete
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
you are ranked 5.5-6.0 right?
I cannot really say. I don't play in the States, so there's no accurate measure of it, adlis. I got rated by a college tennis coach from Boston, and he rated me around 5.5.
I play on the division right below Futures in ARG, and looking at the skill play of most videos of college players they've showed here, I could say I'm about 5.5

My only claim to fame is losing 6-2, 6-3 with Horacio Zeballos (who happens to be a close friend of mine) and he's ranked #207 this week, in a friendly match last August (got injured on September, and barely played since then)

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/?playernumber=Z184

I cannot say it's a REAL reference of my skills, but I've been playing with the guy for the past 15 years, and I know him too damn much, and I match up pretty good with him. Probably, the #208 could still double bagel me :D
 

Lionheart

Rookie
by those vids i´m 3.5 to 4.0 depending on the day, by the usta site, i though i was 3.5 but far from 4.0 (i dont know for because i dont live in the us)
 

Taxvictim

Semi-Pro
You are going through what a lot of players (especially younger male ones) go through when they start out tennis. They start out hitting their ground strokes and serves hard. In practice they look great. They watch some players that are rated say 3.5-4.0 and look at their strokes and say to themselves "I can beat those players easily! Look how ugly they hit." Then they go out and play in a USTA tourney or league and lose to a middle aged, overweight guy who slices off both sides.

Yup, that's what happened to me. Seriously, watching those flat-footed guys in the 3.5 video, if I can't compete with them I feel like I should stop playing. But, 3.5 players clobbered me 0,1,1,1,1,2. And I don't think it was just lack of tournament experience or "choking", those guys had me running non-stop, so I was sucking wind at the breaks, and they were standing there all cool and collected.
 

x Southpaw x

Semi-Pro

my opinion and translation:

1.0 - 2.0 players (this shouldn't be necessary -_-' ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IjMQtBPtU

no they're 1.0s only.

2.5 - 3.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttX1WSKPV48

1.5s. Your written description is copied from a website so it's right. The description for a 1.5 is "This player has limited experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play". Exactly what the video shows.

3.5 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ER9FKDpSi_g

The guy without the cap is a 2.0-2.5 with maybe a 3.0 serve. The guy with cap is so bad he's probably at the lowest end of the 2.0s. I don't feel like quoting from the written description again.

4.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

This guy should be banned for having to slow-bounce the ball 9-15 times before his 1st serve and 5-6 times before his second serve. But whatever. Skill-wise he seems like a 2.5 with a 2.0 serve.

4.5 player (one in front of camera):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1gFRRnDtGE

2.5. He's developing form on his forehand and he is showing he can smack sitters from his dad. His backhand is terrible and he shys away from using it. zapvor this reminds me of you when I trained you during summer exactly 1 year ago. But you're definitely several notches above these guys. No need to be humble, you can handle pace and heavy spin pretty well. All you have to do is stop trying to serve like a 4.0 during matches and maybe even adopt the 1.5's serve for your second serve and you'd be mincing these guys. Coz once you get the point started, advantage is yours. Try to never double-fault.

5.0 - 5.5 player (forgive the bad music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1qkuBQd_w

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh this guy's got form alright, but IS HE USING A BALL MACHINE?? "Oh darn missed that one, better scramble back to the center for the next ball!" Ok the youtube description says he's rallying someone, but I'm awfully suspicious. At least 3.5, but otherwise can't really tell. If the total number of balls they used in that rally was less than 5, then okay he and his partner are at least a 4.5.

6.0 - 6.5 players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfKP2T1nSc

oh I like this guy. Strokes-wise he's definitely on the high-end but I don't think his ntrp is that obvious. I've seen 5.5s hit with that power/spin/consistency but thing is the video only shows a crosscourt drill. I think strokes can only get good up to a certain point... maybe 4.5. From then on it's all about what happens during the actual match. A good friend of mine could rally at the 4.5 level but when it comes to serving and rallying during a match, he drops several notches and keeps messing up. Same thing, someone who's excellent at matches may not necessarily be good at tournaments.

7.0 players (pro): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8

Um. But of course... And I'd agree Fed's above 7.0.



Summary: since this is my opinion, it is cannot be perfect and most likely is wrong. Point is I and several others disagree with the OP. 1.0s are obvious and we know 7.0s by name. For the rest, it's best to get rated by a true rating pro.
 
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goober

Legend
i wasnt trying to brag. i was just shocked when i saw the videos because i think i am better than the people in the clips. and i am pretty sure i suck so i said they must be rated lower than i am. but i guess i have never been rated. i would love to play them and find out how i do. i am saying i can hit better than those guys. in matches i dont know.

You are a strange guy Zapvor. You try to pretend to be humble by saying that you are a lowly 2.5 but you can beat these players. You then backtrack and say well I hit better than them but you don't know about matches. Earth to Zapvor- if you can't beat them in a match you are not better than them. I can claim I hit better than some 5.0 players but not in matches. You see how ridiculous that sounds?

Hey if you are better than them, than you are better than them. No need to pretend to be humble. Heck I was beating some 4.0 rated players in a little over a year of play. Unless you are trying to win an internet battle of who has better strokes on video, you have to prove it out on the court.
 

AngeloDS

Hall of Fame
I don't agree with the ratings to be honest =p. Especially after the 3.5; however the 6.0 is on spot. There's a huge gap between each level and it's very clear in tournaments.
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
my opinion and translation:



2.5 - 3.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttX1WSKPV48

1.5s. Your written description is copied from a website so it's right. The description for a 1.5 is "This player has limited experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play". Exactly what the video shows.

3.5 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ER9FKDpSi_g

The guy without the cap is a 2.0-2.5 with maybe a 3.0 serve. The guy with cap is so bad he's probably at the lowest end of the 2.0s. I don't feel like quoting from the written description again.

4.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

This guy should be banned for having to slow-bounce the ball 9-15 times before his 1st serve and 5-6 times before his second serve. But whatever. Skill-wise he seems like a 2.5 with a 2.0 serve.

4.5 player (one in front of camera):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1gFRRnDtGE

2.5. He's developing form on his forehand and he is showing he can smack sitters from his dad. His backhand is terrible and he shys away from using it. zapvor this reminds me of you when I trained you during summer exactly 1 year ago. But you're definitely several notches above these guys. No need to be humble, you can handle pace and heavy spin pretty well. All you have to do is stop trying to serve like a 4.0 during matches and maybe even adopt the 1.5's serve for your second serve and you'd be mincing these guys. Coz once you get the point started, advantage is yours. Try to never double-fault.

5.0 - 5.5 player (forgive the bad music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1qkuBQd_w

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh this guy's got form alright, but IS HE USING A BALL MACHINE?? "Oh darn missed that one, better scramble back to the center for the next ball!" Ok the youtube description says he's rallying someone, but I'm awfully suspicious. At least 3.5, but otherwise can't really tell. If the total number of balls they used in that rally was less than 5, then okay he and his partner are at least a 4.5.

6.0 - 6.5 players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfKP2T1nSc

oh I like this guy. Strokes-wise he's definitely on the high-end but I don't think his ntrp is that obvious. I've seen 5.5s hit with that power/spin/consistency but thing is the video only shows a crosscourt drill. I think strokes can only get good up to a certain point... maybe 4.5. From then on it's all about what happens during the actual match. A good friend of mine could rally at the 4.5 level but when it comes to serving and rallying during a match, he drops several notches and keeps messing up. Same thing, someone who's excellent at matches may not necessarily be good at tournaments.

7.0 players (pro): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8

Um. But of course... And I'd agree Fed's above 7.0.



Summary: since this is my opinion, it is cannot be perfect and most likely is wrong. Point is I and several others disagree with the OP. 1.0s are obvious and we know 7.0s by name. For the rest, it's best to get rated by a true rating pro.

hahhaa. i am glad to see you back on here fam. i am getting video thsi weekend i will show you when i get it. the thing is sometimes i play so well on a day you know, and then by the time i get to you i have lost it. no consistency whatsoever. i dont like pancaking the serve over though because i play for the tennis. i dont play for wins. just dinking serve in and not double fault is stupid i think. besides i got my serve again! of course its going to go away this weekend....i will see. i wish i had a videcam with me all the time so i can tape myself when i havea good day, and show you, then i just have to work on repeating that day in day out
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
You are a strange guy Zapvor. You try to pretend to be humble by saying that you are a lowly 2.5 but you can beat these players. You then backtrack and say well I hit better than them but you don't know about matches. Earth to Zapvor- if you can't beat them in a match you are not better than them. I can claim I hit better than some 5.0 players but not in matches. You see how ridiculous that sounds?

Hey if you are better than them, than you are better than them. No need to pretend to be humble. Heck I was beating some 4.0 rated players in a little over a year of play. Unless you are trying to win an internet battle of who has better strokes on video, you have to prove it out on the court.

lol you think whatever you want buddy. first you accuse me of bragging, now you accuse me of faking humility. well believe what you want i dont care. i stand by my statements. yes i believe i hit better than them, but i dont think i will win in a match agaisnt them because in my experience people dont play the same in matches as they do in practice. unlike me. i dont push or do any of that. i play matches the way i hit. i dont think they do. lol yes internet battle?????:confused: my point was i was shocked at the ratings of the people in the clips. maybe all my hitting with good players on college club team has skewed my perception of tennis level
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
my opinion and translation:

1.0 - 2.0 players (this shouldn't be necessary -_-' ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IjMQtBPtU

no they're 1.0s only.

2.5 - 3.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttX1WSKPV48

1.5s. Your written description is copied from a website so it's right. The description for a 1.5 is "This player has limited experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play". Exactly what the video shows.

3.5 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ER9FKDpSi_g

The guy without the cap is a 2.0-2.5 with maybe a 3.0 serve. The guy with cap is so bad he's probably at the lowest end of the 2.0s. I don't feel like quoting from the written description again.

4.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

This guy should be banned for having to slow-bounce the ball 9-15 times before his 1st serve and 5-6 times before his second serve. But whatever. Skill-wise he seems like a 2.5 with a 2.0 serve.

4.5 player (one in front of camera):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1gFRRnDtGE

2.5. He's developing form on his forehand and he is showing he can smack sitters from his dad. His backhand is terrible and he shys away from using it. zapvor this reminds me of you when I trained you during summer exactly 1 year ago. But you're definitely several notches above these guys. No need to be humble, you can handle pace and heavy spin pretty well. All you have to do is stop trying to serve like a 4.0 during matches and maybe even adopt the 1.5's serve for your second serve and you'd be mincing these guys. Coz once you get the point started, advantage is yours. Try to never double-fault.

5.0 - 5.5 player (forgive the bad music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1qkuBQd_w

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh this guy's got form alright, but IS HE USING A BALL MACHINE?? "Oh darn missed that one, better scramble back to the center for the next ball!" Ok the youtube description says he's rallying someone, but I'm awfully suspicious. At least 3.5, but otherwise can't really tell. If the total number of balls they used in that rally was less than 5, then okay he and his partner are at least a 4.5.

6.0 - 6.5 players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfKP2T1nSc

oh I like this guy. Strokes-wise he's definitely on the high-end but I don't think his ntrp is that obvious. I've seen 5.5s hit with that power/spin/consistency but thing is the video only shows a crosscourt drill. I think strokes can only get good up to a certain point... maybe 4.5. From then on it's all about what happens during the actual match. A good friend of mine could rally at the 4.5 level but when it comes to serving and rallying during a match, he drops several notches and keeps messing up. Same thing, someone who's excellent at matches may not necessarily be good at tournaments.


7.0 players (pro): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8

Um. But of course... And I'd agree Fed's above 7.0.



Summary: since this is my opinion, it is cannot be perfect and most likely is wrong. Point is I and several others disagree with the OP. 1.0s are obvious and we know 7.0s by name. For the rest, it's best to get rated by a true rating pro.

His name is Michael and he plays challengers, which means he is a pro and at the 6.5 or 7.0 level (He won the tourney he is play at there last year). Certainly not a 5.5 player.

Edit: the 4.0 plays and wins a lot at the 4.0 level. So hmm he is a 4.0. The nerve of some people these days is just ridiculous. How can you stand there and say someone is a 2.5 when they win at the 4.0 level.
 
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goober

Legend
His name is Michael and he plays challengers, which means he is a pro and at the 6.5 or 7.0 level (He won the tourney he is play at there last year). Certainly not a 5.5 player.

Edit: the 4.0 plays and wins a lot at the 4.0 level. So hmm he is a 4.0. The nerve of some people these days is just ridiculous. How can you stand there and say someone is a 2.5 when they win at the 4.0 level.

Well any time you post some video on this forum everybody will rate people 1-2 levels lower than they actually are. People love to downgrade other people's abilities and course pump up their own. Here are some of the worst ratings examples from this forum I can remember:

1. Verdasco- 5.5

2. Asian ATP player ranked around 400- 4.5 to 5.5

3. Freshmen at Pac 10 D1 University on full scholie- A couple guys said they would not even be good enough to play in any college and thought they were just average high school players.

4. D1 player at a small school- named conference player of the year- rated 3.5, 4.0 and 4.5 by various people.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
Well any time you post some video on this forum everybody will rate people 1-2 levels lower than they actually are. People love to downgrade other people's abilities and course pump up their own. Here are some of the worst ratings examples from this forum I can remember:

1. Verdasco- 5.5

2. Asian ATP player ranked around 400- 4.5 to 5.5

3. Freshmen at Pac 10 D1 University on full scholie- A couple guys said they would not even be good enough to play in any college and thought they were just average high school players.

4. D1 player at a small school- named conference player of the year- rated 3.5, 4.0 and 4.5 by various people.

Yea, I remember Drak's tread with Youz and people were saying he was a 5.5. there is a TON of people who talk through their hindquarters, if you catch my drift(pun not intended lol,) on these boards
 
Good thread... very helpful.

Rating conservatively I would say I'm a 3.0 to a 3.5...
Possibly a 4.0..
Yay. Thanks, I've been wondering what I am for a while.
 

lethalfang

Professional
Strokes don't matter, really. Results do.
If you have a 6.0 forehand, and a 3.5 everything else (just to name an example), you're a 3.5. If a 4.0 beats you, even with your 6.0 forehand, you're not better than 4.0 ;)

A player of your description will blow away rest of the 3.5'ers with his "6.0 forehand," as long as he is smart enough to recognize his strength and use his forehand as much as possible. That will makes him a 4.0 at the very least, if not more.
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
His name is Michael and he plays challengers, which means he is a pro and at the 6.5 or 7.0 level (He won the tourney he is play at there last year). Certainly not a 5.5 player.

Edit: the 4.0 plays and wins a lot at the 4.0 level. So hmm he is a 4.0. The nerve of some people these days is just ridiculous. How can you stand there and say someone is a 2.5 when they win at the 4.0 level.

so you know the 4.0guy? i would love to hit with him just for fun. i am sure he can give me some tips.
 

boojay

Hall of Fame
But how can he give you any tips if you feel you hit better than him?

no offense goober, but you're really forcing the issue. seems like you're trying to cause conflict when there's no need to.

even if, say, zap is better, it's not impossible for him to learn from a weaker player. Maybe there's a particular shot or an aspect of the game that a lower level player happens to be better than at. You never know, but that's besides the point.
 
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goober

Legend
no offense goober, but you're really forcing the issue. seems like you're trying to cause conflict when there's no need to.

even if, say, zap is better, it's not impossible for him to learn from a weaker player. Maybe there's a particular shot or an aspect of the game that a lower level player happens to be better than at. You never know, but that's besides the point.

Just answer me this- have you ever gone to a weaker player for tips? Yes you can learn things from playing weaker players but generally those things are almost always self discovery things about your own game. If there is a particular shot you are not good at, I would highly recommend that you go to a teaching pro rather than a weaker level player who is good at that one shot to give you advice. But maybe that is just me.

Hmm ok. I'll stop stirring the pot :)
 

boojay

Hall of Fame
^for sure I have. My groundstrokes are relatively decent, but my volleys are god awful. I know a big fellow (and I choose to call him big) who can't move around that well and so, has developed a rather efficient net game. He has wonderful hands at the net. While he's not so great at chasing down lobs due to his lack of mobility, any shot hit within his vicinity will be magnificently placed by his volleys. The guy handles pace so very well at the net where I would look like a fool.

Another guy has no chance against me in a rally, but his serve is so friggin' wicked. He can do them all (different serves) and I ask him for tips all the time on how to execute a twist serve.

Those are just a couple of examples, but there are many cases where I learn a lot from different players, mostly stronger, but sometimes weaker too.
 

lsn10

New User
first hand experience of the "video does not do me justice" phenomenon

after watching these videos I thought I was a 4.0 but after reading about how bad video makes everyone looks I signed up as a 3.5 (my 1st tournament was last weekend)

Lost 1st match 6-4, 7-5, 6-3
Won 2nd match 4-6, 6-3, 7-5
Lost 3rd match 6-0, 6-0 (lots of dueces so not as bad as it sounds)

The guys that beat me said that they sometimes get beaten badly at larger tournaments
 

goober

Legend
^for sure I have. My groundstrokes are relatively decent, but my volleys are god awful. I know a big fellow (and I choose to call him big) who can't move around that well and so, has developed a rather efficient net game. He has wonderful hands at the net. While he's not so great at chasing down lobs due to his lack of mobility, any shot hit within his vicinity will be magnificently placed by his volleys. The guy handles pace so very well at the net where I would look like a fool.

Another guy has no chance against me in a rally, but his serve is so friggin' wicked. He can do them all (different serves) and I ask him for tips all the time on how to execute a twist serve.

Those are just a couple of examples, but there are many cases where I learn a lot from different players, mostly stronger, but sometimes weaker too.

So has the second guy taught you to execute his twist serve yet? If is serve is really that good he should be able to hold it against you in a real match which means he should win a lot of the time and is not really a weaker player.

Has the guy with wonderful hands at the net taught you to volley? Is he really a weaker player than you skillswise or is he weaker because he can't move well?
 

goober

Legend
first hand experience of the "video does not do me justice" phenomenon

after watching these videos I thought I was a 4.0 but after reading about how bad video makes everyone looks I signed up as a 3.5 (my 1st tournament was last weekend)

Lost 1st match 6-4, 7-5, 6-3
Won 2nd match 4-6, 6-3, 7-5
Lost 3rd match 6-0, 6-0 (lots of dueces so not as bad as it sounds)

The guys that beat me said that they sometimes get beaten badly at larger tournaments

You have had a very common experience. People are not as bad as they look on video and many newbies (including myself when I started) are not as good as they think they are just because you are hitting the ball hard and are in better shape than the some of the guys in the vids.
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
A player of your description will blow away rest of the 3.5'ers with his "6.0 forehand," as long as he is smart enough to recognize his strength and use his forehand as much as possible. That will makes him a 4.0 at the very least, if not more.
I was just making a point. A 3.5 with a 6.0 forehand? No, not happening. There's not such thing Perhaps a 3.5 with a 4.0 forehand is more likely to be.
 

Taxvictim

Semi-Pro
after watching these videos I thought I was a 4.0 but after reading about how bad video makes everyone looks I signed up as a 3.5 (my 1st tournament was last weekend)

Glad to see I'm not the only one! I had the same tournament experience last month (but got beat worse), and I absolutely cringe when I watch the guys in that 3.5 video and realize I can't beat them 6-0.
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
But how can he give you any tips if you feel you hit better than him?

no offense goober, but you're really forcing the issue. seems like you're trying to cause conflict when there's no need to.

even if, say, zap is better, it's not impossible for him to learn from a weaker player. Maybe there's a particular shot or an aspect of the game that a lower level player happens to be better than at. You never know, but that's besides the point.

LOL goober-i like how even when i am not posting to you, you are posting back to me. sounds like i got my own personal stalker. hehe. to respond though, i always feel like i can learn something from somoene even if i am better than them. say i beat him 6-4, but he may have a better backhand than me. so i can get tips on that. he may have a kick serve; i dont so i can ask for advice on that,etc. but i guess you dont like to think that way. your hoice. oh wait, boojay beat me to it! thanks boojay:)
 

boojay

Hall of Fame
So has the second guy taught you to execute his twist serve yet? If is serve is really that good he should be able to hold it against you in a real match which means he should win a lot of the time and is not really a weaker player.

Has the guy with wonderful hands at the net taught you to volley? Is he really a weaker player than you skillswise or is he weaker because he can't move well?

Actually yes.....sort've. He's told me what to do and while I can't execute at the same level as he does, I definitely have some twist action to my serve, however minimal it may be. It's a lot more noticeable on outdoor courts than it is indoors. Something to work on.

If you've ever faced a twist serve, you'll know that they're pretty easy to return if you step back, assuming it's not coming at you at 100+ miles/hour. At the club level, it's only the first couple of times that it's used that it catches you off guard, otherwise, it's not THAT difficult to return.

As for the net play, no. I still suck at that.

I dunno about you, but I consider good movement to be a skill.
 
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beernutz

Hall of Fame
I only watched the 3.5 video and to be honest, both guys looked like bottom-to mid-level 3.5s. There are some 3.0s I know who could give the guy wearing the hat fits since his backhand was so weak. Our team just played in the semi finals of a 3.5 tournament last week (it was a local organization, similar to ALTA, but all the players were also USTA 3.5s) and every player out there I watched (even me, who played awful) looked better than either of the 3.5s in the video.

They may be 3.5s but I wouldn't use them as 'typical' examples of that level.
 
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tennispr()

Rookie
well judging from the videos im either a strong 3.0 or a weak 3.5...i can hit better than the 3.5's in the vid but i tend to get impatient -__-...but who knows
 

luckyfool

New User
Made this especially for lancernrg (3.0 doesn't mean 5.0)... and other people who have a good reason for not knowing the ntrp ratings.

1.0 - 2.0 players (this shouldn't be necessary -_-' ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IjMQtBPtU

2.5 - 3.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttX1WSKPV48

3.5 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ER9FKDpSi_g

4.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

4.5 player (one in front of camera):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1gFRRnDtGE

5.0 - 5.5 player (forgive the bad music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1qkuBQd_w

6.0 - 6.5 players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfKP2T1nSc

7.0 players (pro): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8

Summary in words of ntrp ratings:

1.0
This player is just starting to play tennis

1.5
This player has limited experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play

2.0
FOREHAND: Incomplete swing; lacks directional intent
BACKHAND: Avoids backhands; erratic contact; grip problems; incomplete swing
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Incomplete service motion; double faults common; toss is inconsistent; return of serve erratic
VOLLEY: Reluctant to play net; avoids BH; lacks footwork
PLAYING STYLE: Familiar with basic positions for singles and doubles play; frequently out of position

2.5
FOREHAND: Form developing; prepared for moderately paced shots
BACKHAND: Grip and preparation problems; often chooses to hit FH instead of BH
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Attempting a full swing; can get the ball in play at slow pace; inconsistent toss; can return slow paced serve
VOLLEY: Uncomfortable at net especially on the BH side; frequently uses FH racket face on BH volleys
SPECIAL SHOTS: Can lob intentionally but with little control; can make contact on overheads
PLAYING STYLE: Can sustain a short rally of slow pace; weak court coverage; usually remains in the initial doubles position

3.0
FOREHAND: Fairly consistent with some directional intent; lacks depth control
BACKHAND: Frequently prepared; starting to hit with fair consistency on moderate shots
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Developing rhythm; little consistency when trying for power; second serve is often considerably slower than first serve; can return serve with fair consistency
VOLLEY: Consistent FH volley; inconsistent BH volley, has trouble with low and wide shots
SPECIAL SHOTS: Can lob consistently on moderate shots
PLAYING STYLE: Consistent on medium-paced shots; most common doubles formation is still one-up, one-back; approaches net when play dictates but weak in execution

3.5
FOREHAND: Good consistency and variety on moderate shots; good directional control; developing spin
BACKHAND: Hitting with directional control on moderate shots; has difficulty on high or hard shots; returns difficult shot defensively
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Starting to serve with control and some power; developing spin; can return serve consistently with directional control on moderate shots
VOLLEY: More aggressive net play; some ability to cover side shots; uses proper footwork; can direct FH volleys; controls BH volley but with little offense; difficulty in putting volleys away
SPECIAL SHOTS: Consistent overhead on shots within reach; developing approach shots, drop shots; and half volleys; can place the return of most second serves
PLAYING STYLE: Consistency on moderate shots with directional control; improved court coverage; starting to look for the opportunity to come to the net; developing teamwork in doubles

4.0
FOREHAND: Dependable; hits with depth and control on moderate shots; may try to hit too good a placement on a difficult shot
BACKHAND: Player can direct the ball with consistency and depth on moderate shots; developing spin
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Places both first and second serves; frequent power on first serve; uses spin; dependable return of serve; can return with depth in singles and mix returns in doubles
VOLLEY: Depth and control on FH volley; can direct BH volleys but usually lacks depth; developing wide and low volleys on both sides of the body
SPECIAL SHOTS: Can put away easy overheads; can poach in doubles; follows aggressive shots to the net; beginning to finish point off; can hit to opponent's weaknesses; able to lob defensively on setups; dependable return of serve
PLAYING STYLE: Dependable ground strokes with directional control and depth demonstrated on moderate shots; not yet playing good percentage tennis; teamwork in doubles is evident; rallies may still be lost due to impatience

4.5
FOREHAND: Very dependable; uses speed and spin effectively; controls depth well; tends to overhit on difficult shots; offensive on moderate shots
BACKHAND: Can control direction and depth but may break down under pressure; can hit power on moderate shots
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Aggressive serving with limited double faults; uses power and spin; developing offense; on second serve frequently hits with good depth and placement; frequently hits aggressive service returns; can take pace off with moderate success in doubles
VOLLEY: Can handle a mixed sequence of volleys; good footwork; has depth and directional control on BH; developing touch; most common error is still overhitting
SPECIAL SHOTS: Approach shots hit with good depth and control; can consistently hit volleys and overheads to end the point; frequently hits aggressive service returns
PLAYING STYLE: More intentional variety in game; is hitting with more pace; covers up weaknesses well; beginning to vary game plan according to opponent; aggressive net play is common in doubles; good anticipation; beginning to handle pace

5.0
FOREHAND: Strong shot with control, depth, and spin; uses FH to set up offensive situations; has developed good touch; consistent on passing shots
BACKHAND: Can use BH as an aggressive shot with good consistency; has good direction and depth on most shots; varies spin
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Serve is placed effectively with the intent of hitting to a weakness or developing an offensive situation; has a variety of serves to rely on; good depth, spin, and placement on most second serves to force weak return or set up next shot; can mix aggressive and off-paced service returns with control, depth, and spin
VOLLEY: Can hit most volleys with depth, pace, and direction; plays difficult volleys with depth; given opportunity, volley is often hit for a winner
SPECIAL SHOTS: Approach shots and passing shots are hit with pace and a high degree of effectiveness; can lob offensively; overhead can be hit from any position; hits mid-court volley with consistency; can mix aggressive and off-paced service returns
PLAYING STYLE: Frequently has an outstanding shot or attribute around which his game is built; can vary game plan according to opponent; this player is 'match wise,' plays percentage tennis, and 'beats himself' less than the 4.5 player; solid teamwork in doubles is evident; game breaks down mentally and physically more often than the 5.5 player

5.5
This player can hit dependable shots in stress situations; has developed good anticipation; can pick up cues from such things as opponent's toss, body position, backswing, preparation; first and second serves can be depended on in stress situations and can be hit offensively at any time; can analyze and exploit opponent's weaknesses; has developed power and /or consistency as a major weapon; can vary strategies and style of play in a competitive situation.

6.0 to 7.0
These players will generally not need NTRP ratings. Rankings or past rankings will speak for themselves. The 6.0 player typically has had intensive training for national tournament competition at the junior level and collegiate levels and has obtained a sectional and/or national ranking. The 6.5 player has a reasonable chance of succeeding at the 7.0 level and has extensive satellite tournament experience. The 7.0 is a world class player who is committed to tournament competition on the international level and whose major source of income is tournament prize winnings.
whiteln1.gif (935 bytes)

A lot of these videos seem to be over rated by 1 step or half a step. Say 3.5 is actually a 3.0, and 3.0 is like 2.0 and so forth. Hmmm....
 
Z

Ztalin

Guest
That's a 4.5??? That guy sucks. Slices all his backhands into a short loft, and whiffs his topspin forehands not even to mid court. I have no idea what I am, but I'd murder that guy on groundstrokes...
 

The Ripper

Semi-Pro
I have to say the "4.0" guy seems more like a 3.5 at best. Interesting to hear he is winning tournaments as a 4.0. Where does he play? Maybe there are regional differences. If he were playing in Southern California I think he would get killed by a 4.0 on court movement and a weak forehand producing short balls with little pace. Any half-decent 4.0 would be hitting winners off his returns.
 

luckyfool

New User
I have to say the "4.0" guy seems more like a 3.5 at best. Interesting to hear he is winning tournaments as a 4.0. Where does he play? Maybe there are regional differences. If he were playing in Southern California I think he would get killed by a 4.0 on court movement and a weak forehand producing short balls with little pace. Any half-decent 4.0 would be hitting winners off his returns.

my thoughts exactly. these guys are overrated. one of my 2.5 friends could crush these 3.5 guys in the video easily.
 

goober

Legend
The 3.5 and 4.0 videos were taken from New Jersey USTA. Is that considered part of the midAtlantic? :D
 

goober

Legend
I have to say the "4.0" guy seems more like a 3.5 at best. Interesting to hear he is winning tournaments as a 4.0. Where does he play? Maybe there are regional differences. If he were playing in Southern California I think he would get killed by a 4.0 on court movement and a weak forehand producing short balls with little pace. Any half-decent 4.0 would be hitting winners off his returns.


I admit the video doesn't look that great. But it is a small snippet of games and I would never judge somebody's ability based on it. You have to play them in person to really know. BTW I have played a lot 4.0 and some 4.5 Socal players in USTA events. They are good players but I am definitely not in awe of them or think they are better than any of the players in other parts of the country I have played- mostly Southwest.
 

grizzly4life

Professional
thanks for posting the videos...

i guess others have said it too, but i think the 4.0 and 4.5 (only two i watched) are overrated.... 4.0 is at very best a weak one, and 4.5 is maybe mid-range 4.0 at best. and that's based on "inside club" ratings, NOT city-wide tourneys with the sand-bagging ratings.....

it's funny. usually it's the opposite. people are usually bashed too much here.... for example, that first video i ever saw analyzed on here where the oriental guy was playing indoors and had gray shorts. that guy had a much, much better forehand which is the bread and butter shot for everyone, and people called him a 3.0.
 

x Southpaw x

Semi-Pro
His name is Michael and he plays challengers, which means he is a pro and at the 6.5 or 7.0 level (He won the tourney he is play at there last year). Certainly not a 5.5 player.

Edit: the 4.0 plays and wins a lot at the 4.0 level. So hmm he is a 4.0. The nerve of some people these days is just ridiculous. How can you stand there and say someone is a 2.5 when they win at the 4.0 level.
I dunno Michael, you know him, I don't, I did not say his 6.5 rating was wrong, just said he was hard to read.

The 4.0... um I can only gap at your comment. I'm watching the video painfully for the 4th time, trying to see his strength that lets him win at the 4.0 level. Definitely not his serve, he can't use it as a weapon to set up an advantage and he double faulted 3 times. His forehand... His backhand.... No apparent slicing or volleying. His courtspeed... hmm maybe he has an amazing ability to return heavy shots and heavy spins well with that short backswing of his?

You sound like you know him well, tell us how he beat 4.0s? Maybe he bounces 15 times to frustrate and disrupt his opponent's rhythm? I'm just asking coz it seems there are quite a few out there who agree his matchplay looked kinda off form.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Player Ratings Explained

I stole this from another site, but found it pretty funny:


Player Ratings Explained

1.0 - You stink. Your grabbing the wrong end of the racquet and you
think the green fuzz on the ball has something to do with velcro.


1.5 - Your still stink, but you can tie your own tennis shoes and hit a
ball you have got in your hand towards one of the cardinal points
without hitting yourself in the leg.


2.0 - You have taken a few lessons, and the odour is fading. Your strokes
begin to look less like a grandmother waving a flyswatter at a moth
and more like you are actually trying to accomplish something.


2.5 - This is when you start going to the club round robins, and
discover that despite your previous misconceptions, you still stink.
You are doing alright if you are fed the ball, but everyone else is
really just being nice to you until they can win the point without
embarrasing you.


3.0 - Same as 2.5, but with more topspin.


3.5 - The light is dawning. Your feet begin to move more efficiently.
They do not remain glued to the baseline, but begin to move
around the court, even up to the net on those occasions that you
feel like walking back to the fence to pick up the ball that passed
you.


4.0 - Your discovery of how to hit a serve and overhead allows you
to be one of the people politely destroying 2.5 players on
round robin night.


4.5 - The ball goes where you will it to go, with authoritative pace
and spin. You are king. You are undefeated on Round Robin night,
and wish test your mettle with a greater challenge. You ask
to play a match with your club's top players and after getting
your ass whupped that, in fact, you stink. "But", the Div 1 team
says magnanimously, "You are getting better."


5.0 - Around now, pretty much everyone else at your club stinks.
League play is the only way to get a decent match, and you're
starting to think pretty well of yourself.


5.5 - You crush some 5.0 punk in a league match, and tell him
he stinks.


6.0 - Tennis scholarship. You go to Stanford, play for the university
team, and have some sixteen year old prodigy bagels you in
a practice set and tells you you stink.


6.5 - You are offered a berth in a local ATP qualifier, and lose out
in the pre-draw round robin stage. One of the people in the
audience played tennis with you back in round robin, and he
tells you that you looked pretty good out there, but your
backhand still stinks.


7.0 - The pro level. If you are Tim Henman, your forehand stinks worse than Donald Youngs. You got to this level by yelling at referees, match fixing or taking drugs.

You scream vamos after every point, you have an irritating grunt, put more spin on the ball then anyone else and play in a outfit that superman would be proud of.

Your #1 in the world, you cant seem to figure out why you beat everyone else so easily but you love watching yourself play. You can take weeks off yet come back and beat the opposition while being more concerned about your hairstyle, you have a girlfriend that seems to put on 30 pounds every tournament and you sure hope IMG will make tennis more exciting because at the moment even when you play badly the opponents hand you the match and your wondering if tennis is as fake as the WWE.

You are a Russian drama queen,undisciplined and aren't willing to work hard, at 25 you still cant seem to figure out drinking and partying wont help you win tennis matches. Your a organiser's nightmare as they are not quite sure whether they are paying the appearance fee to one of the best players in the world or someone who is a level below Oscar Hernandez. You go through coaches, like most people go through underwear,but at least you can have a shot of vodka before sleep every night.

Your playing with a gut and it would be great if you could just string together three weeks of consistent tennis. You are good at Davis Cup but thats where it ends. You are under constant pressure as you are the only Argentine not to be busted for drugs but you are being asked for pee samples 3 times a day as a result and maybe that is affecting your tennis.

You have been pro for so long that you as old as most of the current players parents. You have been bold,long haired and everything in between. You walk around the court like you dumped one in your pants and you think Federer is annoying as he just wont let you win one more slam.

You have sued the atp, you are travelling with a pregnant wife and are playing each week with the ultimate goal of "getting to federer". You are being criticised by the gays, the black-Americans, and every minority organisation inthe world. You are so focused on tennis you think the CMONS sound cool.

You get a little confused when your serve keeps being returned, and the pressure of being the next US big hope is getting to you. Your backhand sucks but is a stroke of beauty compared to your volley, not only do you lose matches but you also lost your mojo and you cant quite figure out why you got rid of Gilbert. You have also ruined a promising pie business.
You think Federer sucks but you will keep throwing the kitchen sink at him.

You serve out of a tree, dont do anything else, play 1029838485 tiebreaks a year and you're boring to watch. John McEnroe and Bud Collins are saying inane things about you on international television. And people on **************** are still debating whether or not you stink.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
I dunno Michael, you know him, I don't, I did not say his 6.5 rating was wrong, just said he was hard to read.

The 4.0... um I can only gap at your comment. I'm watching the video painfully for the 4th time, trying to see his strength that lets him win at the 4.0 level. Definitely not his serve, he can't use it as a weapon to set up an advantage and he double faulted 3 times. His forehand... His backhand.... No apparent slicing or volleying. His courtspeed... hmm maybe he has an amazing ability to return heavy shots and heavy spins well with that short backswing of his?

You sound like you know him well, tell us how he beat 4.0s? Maybe he bounces 15 times to frustrate and disrupt his opponent's rhythm? I'm just asking coz it seems there are quite a few out there who agree his matchplay looked kinda off form.

He looks consistent. I don't know him but I looked up his record. He has plenty of wins, and certainly more then how much he has lost.
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
I stole this from another site, but found it pretty funny:


Player Ratings Explained






3.0 - Same as 2.5, but with more topspin.


3.5 - The light is dawning. Your feet begin to move more efficiently.
They do not remain glued to the baseline, but begin to move
around the court, even up to the net on those occasions that you
feel like walking back to the fence to pick up the ball that passed
you.

k.

hahahahaha. wait...thats me...getting passed at net everytime:sad:
 
Made this especially for lancernrg (3.0 doesn't mean 5.0)... and other people who have a good reason for not knowing the ntrp ratings.

1.0 - 2.0 players (this shouldn't be necessary -_-' ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IjMQtBPtU

2.5 - 3.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttX1WSKPV48

3.5 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ER9FKDpSi_g

4.0 players: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

4.5 player (one in front of camera):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1gFRRnDtGE

5.0 - 5.5 player (forgive the bad music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1qkuBQd_w

6.0 - 6.5 players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfKP2T1nSc

7.0 players (pro): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8

most definitely then am I around a 3.0. Those players seem to have decent strokes if they prepare but the guy in the black shirt has a very weak excuse for a serve! Most people I play with, and play with at clubs, all have a decent if not good service motion. Can that guy really be counted as a 3.0? I think I should post a video of me sometime during a match to see how bad I really am :D

Oh and mind if I rework that "dubbed" NTRP rating chart? It's hilarious but I wanna see if I can throw in some good stuff too!
 

tenniko

Semi-Pro
I admit the video doesn't look that great. But it is a small snippet of games and I would never judge somebody's ability based on it. You have to play them in person to really know. BTW I have played a lot 4.0 and some 4.5 Socal players in USTA events. They are good players but I am definitely not in awe of them or think they are better than any of the players in other parts of the country I have played- mostly Southwest.

Yeah... Socal tennis is tough... :sad:

but the competition is nice

edit: And, yes. You'd have to see them play matches to know their true level. I know guys who go all out and never miss during rallies and they look +5.0. When you play them, they play at about 3.5~4.0.
 
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