For those that missed the Tomic controversy - A pictorial rundown

sdont

Legend
Very good!

This reminds me of one of the best threads ever on this forum. I don't know whether it still exists.
 

namelessone

Legend
LOL. :)

Great collage.

It's funny to see people just piling on Tomic. I thought some of you wanted more "villains" in tennis. Yet when this young and dumb player does what he did today everybody is outraged.

Make up your minds.
 

namelessone

Legend
What stupid thoughts you have. We have enough with the world number two.
Hey maxi, these are not my thoughts, but that of certain characters around here who feel who need more "personalities" on tour and regret the days when certain players were ***** and hated eachother. I am neutral about Tomic, he is a good player, seems a bit bratty though.

Just found this gem on MTF :)

 
Tomic couldn't have done anything about what happened. Would the umpire have accepted Tomic's testimony after throwing out hotdog's testimony? No. The umpire would have had to witness the challenge appeal when it happened, which he did not. Tomic could do nothing to change what happened.
 
Hey maxi, these are not my thoughts, but that of certain characters around here who feel who need more "personalities" on tour and regret the days when certain players were ***** and hated eachother. I am neutral about Tomic, he is a good player, seems a bit bratty though.

Just found this gem on MTF :)

Tomic bratty? What did he do that was bratty? He's one of the most low-key guys out there, and his interviews are modest and always talking up his opponents. I don't get where the 'bratty' accusation came from. I doubt you'll ever hear Tomic swear on the court the way Federer did.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Ok I didnt see it, but basically what I am gathering is a Dolgo shot was called in( or rather, not called out).

Then, tomic hit the ball back, but raised his racket. Dolgo hit the following shot out, and then tomic tried to pretend that he didnt raise his racket before Dolgo's shot was out?

If thats the case, thats really low class.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Dolgo claim he challenged which he did.

He lied to the umpire by denying that he challenged when he clearly did.

And by lying he won the point he otherwise would not have.






Tomic couldn't have done anything about what happened. Would the umpire have accepted Tomic's testimony after throwing out hotdog's testimony? No. The umpire would have had to witness the challenge appeal when it happened, which he did not. Tomic could do nothing to change what happened.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
that's it.


Ok I didnt see it, but basically what I am gathering is a Dolgo shot was called in( or rather, not called out).

Then, tomic hit the ball back, but raised his racket. Dolgo hit the following shot out, and then tomic tried to pretend that he didnt raise his racket before Dolgo's shot was out?

If thats the case, thats really low class.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
that's it.
yeah, you and I disagree about many things, but this aint one of them.

Thats a bytch move, on Tomic's part.

Did the umpire not see his racket raised?

I have a feeling Serena consoled Dolgo in the locker room, lol.
 
yeah, you and I disagree about many things, but this aint one of them.

Thats a bytch move, on Tomic's part.

Did the umpire not see his racket raised?

I have a feeling Serena consoled Dolgo in the locker room, lol.
The umpire was watching the ball, at hotdog's end of the court, and Tomic stopped signalling. See, Tomic changed his mind about the challenge, even before hotdog hit the ball. And that is what Tomic was saying in reply to hotdog's protest. Tomic was saying "I was about to challenge but didn't". It's true, Tomic started to challenge but withdrew (before hotdog hit the ball). Bottom line is though, Tomic could do nothing about the umpire not seeing Tomic's semi-signal. And even if Tomic pleaded to the umpire to replay the point, the umpire would have to refuse. Why? Because the umpire already refused the testimony of hotdog. You can't accept one player's testimony and throw out another player's testimony.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Ok I didnt see it, but basically what I am gathering is a Dolgo shot was called in( or rather, not called out).

Then, tomic hit the ball back, but raised his racket. Dolgo hit the following shot out, and then tomic tried to pretend that he didnt raise his racket before Dolgo's shot was out?

If thats the case, thats really low class.
Dolgo claim he challenged which he did.

He lied to the umpire by denying that he challenged when he clearly did.

And by lying he won the point he otherwise would not have.
Wow. That really is low class.:?
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
The umpire was watching the ball, at hotdog's end of the court, and Tomic stopped signalling. See, Tomic changed his mind about the challenge, even before hotdog hit the ball. And that is what Tomic was saying in reply to hotdog's protest. Tomic was saying "I was about to challenge but didn't". It's true, Tomic started to challenge but withdrew (before hotdog hit the ball). Bottom line is though, Umpire could do nothing about the umpire not seeing Tomic's semi-signal. And even if Tomic pleaded to the umpire to replay the point, the umpire would have to refuse. Why? Because the umpire already refused the testimony of hotdog. You can't accept one player's testimony and throw out another player's testimony.
ok, but thats a hindrance, you cant raise your racket then rescind the challenge.

its distracting the other player who assumes that if u are challenging, play is stopped. The tragedy is

a) the ump didnt see the racket raised
b) tomic lied about it once he realized dolgo's shot was out and the ump didnt see his challenge.
 
ok, but thats a hindrance, you cant raise your racket then rescind the challenge.

its distracting the other player who assumes that if u are challenging, play is stopped. The tragedy is

a) the ump didnt see the racket raised
b) tomic lied about it once he realized dolgo's shot was out and the ump didnt see his challenge.
How do you know what Tomic was saying? What if Tomic was saying "I didn't mean to challenge, I began to but stopped."

The umpire can't go by something he didn't see. If the umpire didn't see the hindrance then he can't call it, no matter what Tomic or hotdog say.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I don't think the nadal-federer rivalry has anything to do with the Tomic issue, but its a nice try to divide the world into good and evil.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Were I Dolgo,l lI would not have shaken Tomic' hand after the match.

I knew there was a reason I instinctively didnt care for tomic...something about the way carried himself didnt appeal to know.

Now I know my spidey senses were accurate given what happened last night.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
How do you know what Tomic was saying? What if Tomic was saying "I didn't mean to challenge, I began to but stopped."

The umpire can't go by something he didn't see. If the umpire didn't see the hindrance then he can't call it, no matter what Tomic or hotdog say.
Duh, obviously if he said I raised my racket to challenge but stopped, the ump would know that it was a hindrance and replay the point.

But he straight up said I did not challenge or have my racket up. therefore point tomic.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
But it's only a challenge or hindrance if the umpire sees it. Tomic telling the umpire 'its a challenge' or 'its a hindrance' isn't enough.
What part of its a hindrance to the player if the racket it is up do you not understand?

Again, the tragedy of it was

a) ump didnt see the racket up.
b) tomic lied about it.

And since tomic said I didnt have my racket up, the ump assumes dolgo was not hindered, thus point tomic.
 
Duh, obviously if he said I raised my racket to challenge but stopped, the ump would know that it was a hindrance and replay the point.

But he straight up said I did not challenge or have my racket up. therefore point tomic.
What does the rulebook say regarding this? Is the umpire allowed to go with a player's version of events? Or must he umpire go with exactly what is seen?
 
What part of its a hindrance to the player if the racket it is up do you not understand?

Again, the tragedy of it was

a) ump didnt see the racket up.
b) tomic lied about it.

And since tomic said I didnt have my racket up, the ump assumes dolgo was not hindered, thus point tomic.
But did you hear exactly what the umpire said? Did he really ask Tomic?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The hinderance was based on your account of a possible scenario.

The situation is clear - you challenge or you don't.

If Tomic says to the umpire that he started to challenge and rescinded, the umpire would have declared a hinderance and he would have lost the point because Tomic had admitted to breaking the rules.

Dolgo lost the point based on Tomic's testimony that he did not challenge, not on what the umpire saw.





How do you know what Tomic was saying? What if Tomic was saying "I didn't mean to challenge, I began to but stopped."

The umpire can't go by something he didn't see. If the umpire didn't see the hindrance then he can't call it, no matter what Tomic or hotdog say.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
What does the rulebook say regarding this? Is the umpire allowed to go with a player's version of events? Or must he umpire go with exactly what is seen?
Given what happened in the Serena and Henin match, Im going to assume the ump if they didnt directly see it, they ask the player. If the player lies.....


Again, Henin raised her hand in the middle of serena's serve, but after the serve went into the net pretended she didnt. Serena told the ump henin had her hand up and she should get a second serve. The ump, didnt see it, and asked henin who said she didnt. Serena lost the point and lost the game as it was break point.
 

_maxi

Banned
How do you know what Tomic was saying? What if Tomic was saying "I didn't mean to challenge, I began to but stopped."

The umpire can't go by something he didn't see. If the umpire didn't see the hindrance then he can't call it, no matter what Tomic or hotdog say.
I read tomic's lips. He said: "I didn't say anything" when Dolgopolov complained. Go check the videos. He didn't "say" anything but his body language was asking for a challenge, he looked to the umpire and rised his racquet and that's the way that many pro's ask for a challenge.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I read tomic's lips. He said: "I didn't say anything" when Dolgopolov complained. Go check the videos. He didn't "say" anything but his body language was asking for a challenge, he looked to the umpire and rised his racquet and that's the way that many pro's ask for a challenge.
in other words, he lied.

half the time players dont even say "challenge" they just raise their racket.
 
The hinderance was based on your account of a possible scenario.

The situation is clear - you challenge or you don't.

If Tomic says to the umpire that he started to challenge and rescinded, the umpire would have declared a hinderance and he would have lost the point because Tomic had admitted to breaking the rules.

Dolgo lost the point based on Tomic's testimony, not on what the umpire saw.
But where are you getting this from? Is it in the rule book that the umpire can go by the player's testimony of events? I am pretty sure the umpire can only call what he sees, not what a player admits to.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's what happened.

Dolgo said he challenged.

Tomic said he didn't.

The matter was decided on the 'testimony of gentlemen'.




But where are you getting this from? Is it in the rule book that the umpire can go by the player's testimony of events? I am pretty sure the umpire can only call what he sees, not what a player admits to.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
But where are you getting this from? Is it in the rule book that the umpire can go by the player's testimony of events? I am pretty sure the umpire can only call what he sees, not what a player admits to.
did you not read my post regarding the Serena Henin hand raise issue?

It was the same thing, the player did something the ump didnt see. since the ump didnt see it, they asked the player if they did or didnt do it.

In both tomic and henin's cases, they lied. But ump had to go by what they said.
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
It's just a shame that two days in a row great matches have had such controversy in them. And I must reiterate, it was not the umpire's fault in the Dolg - Tomic match.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The video only really shows the Dolgo-umpire interaction; and the umpire's statements aren't brimming with confidence.

When is a delay in challenging a sufficient delay?

When is a stoppage to challenge a sufficient stop?

The challenge system is a fiasco.
 
N

nikdom

Guest
Some have no shame...
Yeah, like you guys have earned the right to benefit of doubt!

Its enough for you to see a Fed fan take a position on ANY issue and the *******s make their dissension felt. Plus, its no stretch to say that if you can NEVER find fault with Nadal's time wasting and other tactics on court, obviously you're missing part of the brain that says fair play is important.

Now bartleby here may be an exception in this thread, but look at all the other usual suspects.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Man, Dolgo got double screwed.

The ump saw the racquet being raised, but didnt recognize it as a challenge, and Tomic denied it too.

Basically even if Tomic had copped to it, the Ump basically decided that he didnt have his raquet raised high enough. Wow.

Mind you, Tomic is still a first class tool for denying he challenged. Even in interviews after the match he said "in my mind, I didnt challenge"

well his mind may not have challenged, but his arm and raquet did.
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
I think the umpires would have the respect of the general public if they were accountable. If we knew what his thoughts where when he made a certain decision we'd be more likely to forgive. Right now some moments just make the viewer angry, and the ump seem incompetent.
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I think the umpires would have the respect of the general public if they were accountable. If we knew what his thoughts where when he made a certain decision we'd be more likely to forgive. Right now some moments just make the viewer angry, and the ump seem incompetent.
He basically let Tomic get away with a hindrance.
 
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