Forearm Pronation on Serve Takeback?

[ccmasterk]

So I don't know if this has been noticed before, or if it even exists, but if it does, can anyone tell me what effect this has on the serve:



So the backstory of this is that I first read on the following blog post that some players (particularly dominant ones like the entire Big 4) have a forearm pronation on the backswing of the forehand, where the back/outside of the forearm faces up while the front/inside faces down, compared to most players who have the back facing the back fence and the front facing the ball:

(It's a pretty long read) http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2012/05/roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part-6.html

So I thought this might be true on the serve as well and, upon watching slow motion videos, it seems that on the takeback some players pronate their forearms, while others do not, with the back facing the ground while the front of the forearm faces the rising ball. I'm wondering what impact this has on the serve. Some examples:

Tsonga: no pronation
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drRPKQ00a98 (at about 0:05 to 0:07)

Djokovic: no pronation on his old serve, pronation on his new serve

http://www.optimumtennis.net/images/djokovic-serve-old.jpg (old)
http://buquad.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/djokovic1.jpg (new)

Murray: pronation?
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GFkqD7GBZQ (at about 0:09-0:11)

Federer: pronation
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjZ5r_YHV0 (at about 0:06-0:09)

Serena: pronation
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclYOlVxqxE (around 0:05)

So do you see it too? Is it meaningful or am I just crazy?

 

[lpth]

upon watching slow motion videos, it seems that on the takeback some players pronate their forearms, while others do not, with the back facing the ground while the front of the forearm faces the rising ball.

With Fed I don't see that, for me he is not pronating, he is rotating the shoulder to accomplish that

In the FH to be in the PTD position you need to pronate but the "PTD" equivalent in the serve is on edge besides if you pronate in the backswing you would then need to supinate to be neutral again to pronate at contact

 

[Chas Tennis]

Raonic has some of the more interesting wrist motions early in his service motion. His motion is often very simple. This video and others -
https://vimeo.com/63688134

Do they use the exaggerated wrist angles mostly to make certain that their arms are relaxed? Just incidental forearm positions - an option early in the motion?

You might also have a look at the FYB videos taken from above of Frank Salazar. Sometimes that perspective shows some interesting stuff.

Generally, if the elbow is bent at 90° and the thumb when up is parallel to the upper arm then the angle of pronation is 0. Search: anatomical position and also measuring pronation & supination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svrRIuLu5LA

Good luck, that is a new level of detail.

 

[TennisCJC]

I prefer to think of it as palm down instead of pronation but I concede it does look like the forearm has rotated out. I think the opposite - getting the palm up on the take back - would be terrible technique. Look at Sara Errani's serve in video at around 2:40 - 2:45. She rotates palm up and ends up hitting a bit of waiters tray serve with the string bed pointing at the sky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s49rdy5uqE

 

[LeeD]

Since the wrist/forearm is supposed to be LOOSE and RELAXED while serving, it dont' matter.
What matters is the twisting pronation during the forwards swing.