Forehand GOAT

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Okay, it's time for another GOAT forehand poll. Give me your top ten. Use any criteria you want (power, spin, precision, consistency, variety, etc) and free to justify your answers.

1) Roger Federer
2) Fernando Gonzalez
3) Juan Martin del Potro
4) Rafael Nadal
5) Pete Sampras
6) Andre Agassi
7) Ivan Lendl
8) James Blake
9) Jack Sock
10) Novak Djokovic
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Stopped reading when Andre was listed as #6. I've seen everyone on the list play live and believe me, Agassi needed to be higher and Djokovic isn't in the top 10... or even top 15.
 

Waspsting

Hall of Fame
Throw in Becker (and Borg if he makes the time frame you've got in mind)

Lendl and Djokovic to move up.

Personally prefer Agassi to Sampras

Re: Sampras' running forehand... it was an extension of his stationary one. Uber dangerous but prone to error - kill-or-die

I like Nadal’s, which is less prone to error and he goes longline with it too (unlike Sampras)

Sampras missed more than he made - which tends to get forgotten - and the highlights reel has come to shape perceptions of his running forehand as best ever.

I suppose when your on the run, kill-or-die is as good a way to go as any

Don't know if it's the best ever - it's up there for sure - but wanted to clear up some possible misperceptions about it

Federer 1 agreed
 

projectone7

Rookie
"1)" Bernie GOATomic the Tank Engine
1) Fed
2) Rafa
3) Agassi
4) Gonzo
5) Delpo
6) Sampras
7) Courier
8) Blake
9) Lendl
10) Verdasco
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Uh. Fed's forehand has won him 18 slams. That's more than Agassi and Del Po combined, more than Del Po and Nadal combined.

Not about the player accomplishments, just the forehand and DelPo's forehand is well respected and discussed ad nausea as "the" forehand. Nadal is also right there.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
1. Federer
2. Del Potro
3. Nadal
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. Djokovic
7. Sampras
8. Courier
9. Gonzalez
10. Murray

Murray? Are you for real? Djokovic shouldn't be on a top ten best forehands of all time list IMO.

Federer and Nadal are the top two. You need to add Borg to your list.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Murray? Are you for real? Djokovic shouldn't be on a top ten best forehands of all time list IMO.

Federer and Nadal are the top two. You need to add Borg to your list.
Ok take out Gonzo add Borg.

I've dropped Nadal down to 3rd for overall career as in recent years his buggy whip FH has very often dropped short for easy put aways. Peak for peak absolutely top 2 and probably top 1 on clay could hit winners from anywhere.

Djokovic has very good FH imo. Often hits the corners and lines with it and dictates the rally. Doesn't look spectacular or hit as many outright winners like Fedal or Delpo but imo very effective at dictating leading to easy put away by making his opponent run side to side and changing direction.
 

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Uh. Fed's forehand has won him 18 slams. That's more than Agassi and Del Po combined, more than Del Po and Nadal combined.
Really? He had ONLY his forehand to thank for that huh? Nothing to do with his serve, or return, or backhand, or volley, or court positioning, or shot selection, or strategy? Just his forehand? Wow...he's more amazing than I realized! ;)
 

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Murray? Are you for real? Djokovic shouldn't be on a top ten best forehands of all time list IMO.

Federer and Nadal are the top two. You need to add Borg to your list.
I honestly think that Djokovic's forehand (while not nearly as flashy as the others) is one of the most underrated shots in the game. Particularly in the way he's able to consistently hit with depth and change direction of the shot, and how consistent it is against the hardest hitting forehands (Federer). But yeah, Murray is kind of a ridiculous choice IMO. I wouldn't even put his in the top 20 forehands today, much less of all time. There is really nothing spectacular about it, visually or otherwise. Borg I'd consider as an honorable mention, but I don't think he beats the other guys on this list in a forehand to forehand rally.
 

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Ok take out Gonzo add Borg.

I've dropped Nadal down to 3rd for overall career as in recent years his buggy whip FH has very often dropped short for easy put aways. Peak for peak absolutely top 2 and probably top 1 on clay could hit winners from anywhere.

Djokovic has very good FH imo. Often hits the corners and lines with it and dictates the rally. Doesn't look spectacular or hit as many outright winners like Fedal or Delpo but imo very effective at dictating leading to easy put away by making his opponent run side to side and changing direction.
Just out of curiosity, why would you drop Nadal a spot because of his form in "recent years"? Should you be judging him at his peak form (as with every other player)?
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
As much as I loved Gonzo and his forehand, it was a bit too error prone and inconsistent from match to match for me to regard it as a top 5. Even top 10 is a stretch really.

Though it did get more reliable as his career progressed. Gonzo's forehand was the most impressive forehand when it was clicking though IMO. He could do anything that Fed could, but struck it harder. Even factoring in Fed's ability of taking the ball on the rise, Gonzo's opponents still had less time to react, or should I say Gonzo still took more time away. Beastly inside in forehands from difficult positions on the court, amazing footwork on display. Forgot about point construction as well, a GOATing Gonzo couldn't care less (obviously this is early in his career). Auckland 2005 springs to mind. The best forehand display I've seen.

People yarn about Delpo's forehand a lot, but I've always thought Gonzo over Delpo.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
As much as I loved Gonzo and his forehand, it was a bit too error prone and inconsistent from match to match for me to regard it as a top 5. Even top 10 is a stretch really.

Though it did get more reliable as his career progressed. Gonzo's forehand was the most impressive forehand when it was clicking though IMO. He could do anything that Fed could, but struck it harder. Even factoring in Fed's ability of taking the ball on the rise, Gonzo's opponents still had less time to react, or should I say Gonzo still took more time away. Beastly inside in forehands from difficult positions on the court, amazing footwork on display. Forgot about point construction as well, a GOATing Gonzo couldn't care less (obviously this is early in his career). Auckland 2005 springs to mind. The best forehand display I've seen.

People yarn about Delpo's forehand a lot, but I've always thought Gonzo over Delpo.
he couldn't do everything Fed could.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I will only count current players.
Federer
Nadal
Del Potro
Verdasco
Sock

Berdych
Tsonga
Cilic
Thiem
Kyrgios

Last five in no particular order.
 

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Okay, it's time for another GOAT forehand poll. Give me your top ten. Use any criteria you want (power, spin, precision, consistency, variety, etc) and free to justify your answers.

1) Roger Federer
2) Fernando Gonzalez
3) Juan Martin del Potro
4) Rafael Nadal
5) Pete Sampras
6) Andre Agassi
7) Ivan Lendl
8) James Blake
9) Jack Sock
10) Novak Djokovic
First mistake: not breaking down by surface.

Nadal belongs at #1 or close to it, all time, on clay. But not on other surfaces. Borg should be there for clay, of the OE players.

Lots of recency bias in your list.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
I honestly think that Djokovic's forehand (while not nearly as flashy as the others) is one of the most underrated shots in the game. Particularly in the way he's able to consistently hit with depth and change direction of the shot, and how consistent it is against the hardest hitting forehands (Federer). Borg I'd consider as an honorable mention, but I don't think he beats the other guys on this list in a forehand to forehand rally.

I can't agree with you there. It may be an underrated shot but it isn't top ten all time IMO. Borg's fh was better IMO.
 

every7

Hall of Fame
All-Time Forehand list:

Indoor HC: Federer
Grass: Sampras
Fast Hardcourt: Sampras
Slow Hardcourt: Nadal
Clay: Nadal
 

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
First mistake: not breaking down by surface.

Nadal belongs at #1 or close to it, all time, on clay. But not on other surfaces. Borg should be there for clay, of the OE players.

Lots of recency bias in your list.
I've made the point before but I'll do it again. Typically (and appropriately) there will always be some recency bias on my lists because athletes, technology, and training regimens of today are superior than they were in the past. No serve in the pre-open era for example should ever make any top ten list of GOAT serves, nor should any other shot except perhaps the volley (which is largely a lost art today).
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, he could. When playing his best, I saw Gonzo produce every forehand in the book. Most of this was pre 2007 though.

In fact, I don't think I've seen Fed smack 115-120 mph forehand returns off 1st serves, so maybe a bit more.
Couldn't produce short angles as consistently especially off the pass, not as accurate inside in or down the line. Many players have produced every forehand in the book, but Federer was the only one who can do it consistently.

Gonzo has a great forehand but it's in the elite tier because of how much time he needs to set it up and its resulting inconsistency. His rally forehand isn't anything special compared to other elite forehands. Federer's normal rally forehand is quite a bit heavier, another thing which makes it the best forehand ever. When Gonzo goes for winners yeah he can hit some rockets but again that's not high percentage for extended periods of time or matches.

In fact, watch the prime for prime h2h matches between the two of them like 2006 Toronto, 2006 Madrid, 2007 AO and you'll find that Federer routinely comes out better forehand to forehand because of his ability to take time away from Gonzalez's massive setup as well as his ability to hit the short CC angle and go down the line on a dime.

Speed doesn't really matter at all especially when you sacrifice as much as you do to produce it like Gonzo did. Murray hit a 124 mph forehand once remember? Who cares if Federer puts away a midcourt ball at 95 or if Gonzo does it by taking a huge backswing and producing 105? Federer could hit 110+ mph forehands if he wanted to by slapping the ball or sacrificing court positioning and early ball striking with a huge windup but he doesn't do that because it's not a good idea. As it is, he's hit a 109 mph forehand (with spin actually) anyways with his normal technique.
 
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The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Couldn't produce short angles as consistently especially off the pass, not as accurate inside in or down the line. Many players have produced every forehand in the book, Federer was the only one who can do it consistently.

In fact, watch the prime for prime h2h matches between the two of them like 2006 Toronto, 2006 Madrid, 2007 AO and you'll find that Federer routinely comes out better forehand to forehand because of his ability to take time away from Gonzalez's massive setup as well as his ability to hit the short CC angle and go down the line on a dime.

Speed doesn't really matter at all especially when you sacrifice as much as you do to produce it like Gonzo did. Murray hit a 124 mph forehand once remember? Who cares if Federer puts away a midcourt ball at 95 or if Gonzo does it by taking a huge backswing and producing 105? Federer could hit 110+ mph forehands if he wanted to by slapping the ball or sacrificing court positioning and early ball striking with a huge windup but he doesn't do that because it's not a good idea. As it is, he's hit a 109 mph forehand (with spin actually) anyways with his normal technique.
Yeah, I know Fed does it more consistently, I mentioned this is Gonzo only playing at his most aggressive best.

Fed is an outlier here, not many can do what Fed does to his opponents. I should have said pre 2005 really for Gonzo. Peak aggression was earlier in his career, when he wouldn't let himself get into any long rallies. He was much more conservative with it in his matches with Fed, relative to pre 2005. It was also a definite confidence issue with Gonzo as well, how he executed his forehand.

Obviously Fed is better, but I still think Gonzo was more impressive in his peak forehand performances. Even if he didn't produce the variety off the forehand as much as Fed did in a single match, Gonzo had matches where he didn't have to set up a next shot. I wish there was a lot of pre 2005 Gonzo footage, but there isn't. This is all IMO of course, I see where you are coming from.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, I know Fed does it more consistently, I mentioned this is Gonzo only playing at his most aggressive best.

Fed is an outlier here, not many can do what Fed does to his opponents. I should have said pre 2005 really for Gonzo. Peak aggression was earlier in his career, when he wouldn't let himself get into any long rallies. He was much more conservative with it in his matches with Fed, relative to pre 2005. It was also a definite confidence issue with Gonzo as well, how he executed his forehand.

Obviously Fed is better, but I still think Gonzo was more impressive in his peak forehand performances. Even if he didn't produce the variety off the forehand as much as Fed did in a single match, Gonzo had matches where he didn't have to set up a next shot. I wish there was a lot of pre 2005 Gonzo footage, but there isn't. This is all IMO of course, I see where you are coming from.
Gonzalez could produce some really impressive performances especially when he was younger and going for broke but he needed a specific type of opponent, one that gave him plenty of time. Hence why in their h2h meetings in that late 06-early 07 period there was no doubt as to who had the better forehand. Federer could dominate you with his forehand regardless of who you were simply because there was no counter to his FH at his peak besides retrieve every ball and make him go for too much, but only one guy on 1 surface was able to do that. He had too much power, spin, precision, depth, variety and you couldn't rob him of time either.

Bottom line is that for a highlight reel, Gonzo's forehand stacks up to anyone's(even though I prefer Fed for the aesthetics and variety) but in terms of being an actual weapon point to point and match to match, it isn't in the same league as Fed's, who could dictate a rally with his forehand from nearly any position. In fact, besides Nadal's claycourt forehand I don't think anyone's forehand is really in the same league as Fed's. That's how incredible it was from 04-06. (03 TMC to 07 AO to be technical).

Take a match like the 06 Davis cup match against Djoker. Federer wasn't really going for anything on his forehand that match, mostly toying with young Djokovic to teach him a lesson and still you look at the complete dominance he was able to exert with the variety and angles he could produce in that match. Same thing with the 06 USO final, not a match Federer was trying to dictate with his forehand, but still complete dominance off that wing. And when Fed actually tries to dominate with his forehand there's really nothing like it. 04 USO final being the foremost example but there are tons and tons of other performances too that are just breathtaking off the forehand wing.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Gonzalez could produce some really impressive performances especially when he was younger and going for broke but he needed a specific type of opponent, one that gave him plenty of time. Hence why in their h2h meetings in that late 06-early 07 period there was no doubt as to who had the better forehand. Federer could dominate you with his forehand regardless of who you were simply because there was no counter to his FH at his peak besides retrieve every ball and make him go for too much, but only one guy on 1 surface was able to do that. He had too much power, spin, precision, depth, variety and you couldn't rob him of time either.

Bottom line is that for a highlight reel, Gonzo's forehand stacks up to anyone's(even though I prefer Fed for the aesthetics and variety) but in terms of being an actual weapon point to point and match to match, it isn't in the same league as Fed's, who could dictate a rally with his forehand from nearly any position. In fact, besides Nadal's claycourt forehand I don't think anyone's forehand is really in the same league as Fed's. That's how incredible it was from 04-06. (03 TMC to 07 AO to be technical).

Take a match like the 06 Davis cup match against Djoker. Federer wasn't really going for anything on his forehand that match, mostly toying with young Djokovic to teach him a lesson and still you look at the complete dominance he was able to exert with the variety and angles he could produce in that match. Same thing with the 06 USO final, not a match Federer was trying to dictate with his forehand, but still complete dominance off that wing. And when Fed actually tries to dominate with his forehand there's really nothing like it. 04 USO final being the foremost example but there are tons and tons of other performances too that are just breathtaking off the forehand wing.
Yeah, all good points. I don't disagree with anything you said. Good catch especially with the Fed Djoker match, IMO Fed's best level against Novak.

Yeah, you maybe right. Maybe my fanboyism for Gonzo is coming through. The logic makes sense. Though I prefer the sheer brutality of the Gonzo forehand in a "peak" match.
 
V

VexlanderPrime

Guest
1. Federer
2. Del Potro
3. Nadal
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. Djokovic
7. Sampras
8. Courier
9. Gonzalez
10. Murray
A good list. Other Fed fans should read this and stop pretending that every guy from the 70s-90s could hit a modern FH better than Djokovic.

The del po FH is so hard to rank because it's so awesome but he missed so much of his career. I don't get why people are attacking you on Murray, his FH isn't crazy offensive but it's stability and consistency are abnormal
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
A good list. Other Fed fans should read this and stop pretending that every guy from the 70s-90s could hit a modern FH better than Djokovic.

The del po FH is so hard to rank because it's so awesome but he missed so much of his career. I don't get why people are attacking you on Murray, his FH isn't crazy offensive but it's stability and consistency are abnormal
I put Djokovic in my top 10 too but how on earth is Murray's forehand better than Borg. Borg's FH is better than most guys on that list. His FH was in some ways a better version of Nadal's FH, just with wood.
 
6

6-3 6-0

Guest
1. Fedal (Fed on grass/HC - both fast and slow and Nadal on clay)
3. Lendl
4. Sampras - for his running FH
5. Borg - I was watching some late 70's clips and was astonished how good this guy was from FH wing
6. Agassi
7. Djokovic/Delpotro
9. Gonzalez

This is an open era list only.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Fed is #1 because of all the line shots. Power is nice but accuracy is what matters most.

1. Roger
2. Borg
3. Sampras
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. Courier
7. Becker
8. Del Potro
9. Nadal
10. Krajicek

All Slam Champions. Your forehand just simply isn't good enough if you never won off it.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Fed is #1 because of all the line shots. Power is nice but accuracy is what matters most.

1. Roger
2. Borg
3. Sampras
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. Courier
7. Becker
8. Del Potro
9. Nadal
10. Krajicek

All Slam Champions. Your forehand just simply isn't good enough if you never won off it.
Looking at that list, you can also see that their backhands are either worldclass or very solid regardless. Gonzo doesn't have either a worldclass or very solid backhand. Yet he still made a slam final, and was two games away from reaching a 2nd.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Looking at that list, you can also see that their backhands are either worldclass or very solid regardless. Gonzo doesn't have either a worldclass or very solid backhand. Yet he still made a slam final, and was two games away from reaching a 2nd.

Was going for nice mix in eras. Gonzo forehand was power and believe me I have personal favor for the man but is it better than Krajicek or Potro? Not in my mind.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Looking at that list, you can also see that their backhands are either worldclass or very solid regardless. Gonzo doesn't have either a worldclass or very solid backhand. Yet he still made a slam final, and was two games away from reaching a 2nd.
his BH isn't much worse than Courier's, nor is his movement any different. Courier's forehand definitely belongs in the top 10. It was a huge asset for him (along with his mental strength, consistency, serve).
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Was going for nice mix in eras. Gonzo forehand was power and believe me I have personal favor for the man but is it better than Krajicek or Potro? Not in my mind.
it's clearly not better than Delpo's but I would say it's better than Krajiceck's.
 
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