Forehand Question

S

skuludo

Professional
By just arming the ball is it possible to hit 93mph forehands?

I've used the swing speed radar and I can generate 84mph racket head speed on the forehand side. The speed can flutuate from 64 to 79 with most of them in the 70s. Occasonaly the speed will hit the 80s.

I hit the 93mph forehand with the LM Radical MP with lead at 12 o clock and some at the throat. I was able to get a lot of forehands at 90mph and 92mph. (Shots were hit from waist height and landed in.) Fastest last recorded speed with the YTPP is 89mph using the SpeedTrac radar gun.

Am I just arming my strokes when I increase the pace?

Here is a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XRqvzoI5M
(I am the one wearing the crew shirt.)
(The video is unedited and long.)
(Second hitting session I owned this type of forehand so consistency was crap. I went for safer shots in the last half of the video. First half of the video I went for my shots more.)

Forehands where I increased the pace intentionaly.
13:14, 15:19 (Rising shot), 15:37, 16:58 (Extra spin forehand drive. But opponent's reply was too good.)
21:43 (Taking the slice early and place forehand in the corner.)



Current Condition:
I think I improved my consistency and made my average ball speed faster after having this forehand for about a month. However, the form remains pretty much the same. Even if I intentionally add a hitch and use no loop I still generate the same racket head speed. The max with a hitch and no loop takeback was 81mph rhs.




What I think I am doing on my forehand:
I am just trying to catch the ball on the racket and then throw it over the net. The balls that did not make it over the net felt like I just tapped the ball when I made contact with the ball.




Radar gun video of forehand
http://youtu.be/rgVXtshwAp0

Not trying at all forehand speed with low net clearance
http://youtu.be/klNOiLR5hJY
 
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In these offensive forehands, you didn't simply arm the ball. In fact, I barely see you arming it in the whole video and I looked at several different moments.

If you perform a spine rotation (rotate your upper body) and extend your racket leg (straighten slightly or totally your racket side leg), we can't call that arming the ball... you basically go through a full swing each time and it looks quite nice. Some of them are pretty darn fast paced when you take winners, but I thought 85-90mph (your average winner when clocked as you said) was a little faster, but then the camera angle, the sound and so on all change your impressions of what's fast and what's not.

Recently, I got tips from a few posters on here on how to transition from my messy straight arm forehand to a nice double bend like Djokovic's. When I play someone seriously, I rotate a little over 180 degrees on most forehands...I don't even have to try to hit big.

If you rotate properly and fully, you don't need to try and hit hard. The ball will just fly off with plenty of pace with little to no effort from your part. If anything, you may get tired in your legs for pushing off on each ball. Last summer, when I was getting on the offense, I could hit 6 offensive forehands in a rally, not more; beyond that point, I could no longer get airborne to relieve my feet and allow my hips to move faster... if you accelerate properly and wholly into your shot, you should get too tired to continue by the time you hit 6 to 8 in a row. If it means 100 mph on balls above your shoulder, then go for it... but the body's limit in a power movement (a movement involving fast contraction at near maximal tension) is 6 to 8 reps. If you can do more, it means you could go for a bigger push.

It's always nice when you get to a point where your technique forces you to improve your health condition because it can't sustain the effort you could consistently put into practice... it's a lot different than failing technically.
 
The forehands in that video were not clocked. The ones that I clocked were off of drop feeds. I've only clocked one forehand off a live shot and the speed was 85mph; however, I did not record that hitting session.


I'm currently doing isometric training because I sustained a back injury after the fourth hitting session using this forehand. There are also other reasons as well such as stabalizing my left hand more when I hit my two handed backhand. Since then my back has recovered a bit and I try to not over twist on my forehand and backhand side.

Also, I changed the technique a bit on the forehand where I don't let my spine twist as much and focus on getting the racket to snap more by stopping the spine at the last second.

Hitting balls above my shoulder isn't any faster. The max power I could generate on my forehand two weeks ago was 94mph, but I dumped the shot in the net. I think I still have a long way to go to generate 100mph + forehands. Hitting shots in the lower 80s require little effort, but when I try to get to lower 90s I need perfect timing and exert some effort.
 
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your form is not bad. there were a couple of good shots.
You are arming a lot of those shots though. Not all but many.
Those fh's are not anywhere near 85mph.

You are saying your consistency has improved? I suggest you work more on consistency before you worry about pace. The longest rally is like 3 shots, maybe 4 a piece. Most of them appear to be 2 shots each!
That's not consistent at all.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XRqvzoI5M&t=25m37s

I hit 12 shots here. I can repeat this over and over again. The last two shots that I received were out I think.

I can hit against the wall and get 40 shots in a row easily. Against an actual person I can do pretty much the same if that person hits straight in the middle or I can properly get myself in a good position. If the other guy sprays the shot randomly like in the video then my consistency depends on how well I can defend. The other guy tends to hit his backhand late and it goes inside out when he was just trying to hit back to the middle of the court. When I am running wide at full stretch against a fast pace ball I will miss most of the time or not get to it at all. This also includes the backhand side, which you can see. When I tried playing consistenly in this video the other guy just hit an inside out forehand and I could not get it over the net. (Probly a forced error in that case.)


In terms of consistency right now I meant I can keep it around the 70s range and not miss. If I am hitting in the 60s I can get the ball to to drop between the no mans land and the baseline.
When I hit in the 70s my shots land too close to the baseline for my liking right now.


When I played a match against him on the same day the rallys were much longer. I think there were several rallys that were 40 shots or more. The pace I was hitting to achieve that consistency was around this speed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XRqvzoI5M&t=25m37s


I'll try and get another video with a radar gun.
 
I'm not trying to bash on you. I'm just speaking honestly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XRqvzoI5M&t=25m37s

I hit 12 shots here. I can repeat this over and over again. The last two shots that I received were out I think.
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these 12 shots were what? 30 mph? and are moonballs hit to the center of the court. and you are arming almost all the balls in this rally. you werent using the same (better) form as in some of your other rallies.

I can hit against the wall and get 40 shots in a row easily.
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Hmm... I don't think so. It's not easy to hit 40 shots against a wall unless you have really good technique. Maybe you can and I'm not calling you a liar but I would definitely bet against it. Especially how you said 'easily'.

Against an actual person I can do pretty much the same if that person hits straight in the middle or I can properly get myself in a good position.
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I don't think so. Again, not trying to bash you but I didn't see anything close to 40 shot rallies in that video. Most of them were 2,3 shots each. There were a couple of longer moonball rallies though.

In terms of consistency right now I meant I can keep it around the 70s range and not miss.
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Your hard shots are barely reaching the 70's on your hardest shots and when you hit hard most of them are out.
Sharapova's fh's are in the 65 - 85 mph. Do you think you're hitting as hard as sharapova?

When I played a match against him on the same day the rallys were much longer. I think there were several rallys that were 40 shots or more. The pace I was hitting to achieve that consistency was around this speed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XRqvzoI5M&t=25m37s
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Every shot you hit in this rally was a 15ft high moonball and the one shot you tried to hit hard it went into the net. You should work towards something better than this.

Again, not trying to bash you. Your footwork is good. Your form looks ok. You are not hitting in the 80's and the only time you get consistency is when you hit moonballs.

Your contact point is not far out in front enough so you are losing power and control there. You are not getting your weight into the ball. Your swing path is good but you'd have more success with a slightly closed racquet face at contact which would give you more spin allowing you to swing harder,get more pace and better angles. I don't recall any shots that you hit an angle past the sideline. everything was between the sidelines.

You are not pushing off your back leg. When you try to you just jump up in the air. That's not what you should be doing. You should be loading on the right leg and pushing/exploding off it. Not jumping up.

Currently you are making contact with the racquet face open. You need to fix that. You should probably try to get your racquet in the dog pat position on the takeback. You have an old school takeback currently.

You're not aggressive enough w/ your left arm usage. You're losing consistency and power there.

Your bh is better but the footwork on your fh is better than on your fh. Bh slice looks good.

Overall, not bad. You just need some mechanics tuned up. A little more intensity on court would help too imo.
 
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I didn't see ALL your videos, but the one I saw, I agree with the above 3 posters. Barely 50 mph on the fast ones, slower on the wierdo finish you use, where you pull off the ball at contact, adding some spin, but no ball speed.
 
perhaps theres a chance your radar gun is not calibrated? or someone messing with you. because i agree with others those forehands dont exactly look like they are going 70-90 mph more like 40-50 at most. can tell by the sound as well, it should sound like a gunshot if it was around 80-90 mph.

EDIT: oh you are just measuring your rackethead speed. dont know why you'd want to clock your RHS though, wouldnt it make more sense to clock how fast the ball is going after it leaves your racket?
 
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Lol I've never heard of someone clocking raquet head speed. Anyone could generate a lot of raquet head speed even with poor technique. Measure the ball speed and then repeat
 
I take my statement back regarding 40 easily. I attempted hitting consistently and the best I could do was 43 followed by a 37. My forearm starts getting tight affecting the stability on my shots.

That video will be up eventually.
My slice backhand is in the 40s. Hitting 30 and deep requires me to lob with underspin or hit a drop shot.

I have clocked both rhs and ball speed. I've also used a 50mph tuning fork and my radar gun fluctuates between 49-54mph. My serves are also in the 80-90s area too.

Is my radar gun busted?
 
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ok. well i was picturing a different type of wall. with the wall i practice on if you hit a bad shot the rally is over. my wall is partially surrounded on all sides with other walls so you have to hit a consistent ball otherwise the ball will hit another wall or bounce into the the enclosed area of the next 'cube' where someone else could be hitting. with my wall you can't back up infinitely like yours and you can't move as wide as you want like yours. If you were on my wall you would not be able to hit 40 ball rallies. But you did better than i thought you would actually so props to you.

Anyway,
you are not getting a good strike on the ball on your bh. It looks like you're leading with the tip of the racquet. You're not hitting it clean.

Your contact point on fh is too far back as i said before.

You need to work on getting into position better. You hit every ball at a different height and distance from your body. That means your footwork is inconsistent and lazy. This leads to inconsistent ball striking.

You are also not making good contact on the fh. It's not clean enough and on the wimpy side. This is not due to your ability. This is technique probs.
There's no weight into the ball. Contact point is wrong. Arming the ball. Rotation not timed perfectly. No kinetic chain.

Here's your contact below. There are a lot of things wrong in this picture.
What can you see here that needs improvement?

31651325.png
 
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Yes I know my backhand sucks. I'm really not sure how to fix it. I've seen the videos from lockandroll and FYB but I'm not really sure what I am doing.

I have trouble getting into position to the ball which leads to a lot of mishits.

I am really not sure how to improve my rally forehands and make them more aggressive. Thats what I am working on at the momment.


(Radar gun video of forehand was taken at the parking lot at midnight. This video will be up soon. Shot speed ranged from 71mph to 86. Hit 12 forehands total and speeds were
79
79
82
78
80
78
78
83
83
79
71
86
Forehands in this radar gun video is different than my wall hitting and the long video in order to generate that pace. The video is being uploaded to youtube right now.)
 
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Rafa4Ever said:
Lol I've never heard of someone clocking raquet head speed. Anyone could generate a lot of raquet head speed even with poor technique. Measure the ball speed and then repeat
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CRWV said:
racquethead speed does not directly equal ball velocity.
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Ball speed should actually be greater than racquet head speed. If you hold the racquet stationary (racquet speed = 0), an incoming ball that hits the stringbed will rebound at some speed greater than the racquet speed.

If you swing the racquet at some speed, the exit speed of the ball will be greater than the local racquet speed. If the ball speed is equal to the local racquet speed, the ball sticks to the string bed. This does not happen. The ball stays on the string for only 4 ms or so before rebounding at a speed that is greater than the racquet speed.

Ball Exit Speed = Racquet Speed + Rebound Speed

or to put it another way

Shot Speed = Bounce Speed + Racquet Speed​

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/PPandspeed.php
 
^ There are several things that you can do to improve your RHS on your Bh. Grip the racquet handle a bit lower. Get the pinkie of your right hand close to the butt edge of the handle so that part of your heel pad is off the handle. Take a look at Safin's R hand (below). This will allow you to position your left hand a bit lower on the handle so than you can generate faster swing speeds. Your grip should be fairly relaxed -- let it tighten up a bit on its own, naturally -- as you accelerate the racquet head on the forward swing.

Also notice how much Marat coils his upper body. His torso has coiled somewhat more than 90 degrees -- the back of his front shoulder faces the net. Quite often, your coil is somewhat less than 90 degrees. Try to stay loose. It might be my imagination, but it seems that you look a little stiff/tight sometimes. As you start to uncoil, let the racket head lag/drag behind a bit at the start of the forward swing. As you continue to uncoil, the arms should suddenly accelerate faster the your torso rotation. For me, the upper hand (the L one, in your case) starts to assume a more dominant role at this stage of the forward swing. Just before contact, the upper hand is doing a majority of the work to generate spin and RHS. However, this might not be the case for all 2-handers.

crop_450x500_GYI0058512749.jpg

You might be able to use a bit more coil on your FH as well. Keep your left hand on the racquet a little bit longer on your unit turn. Get the back of your left shoulder towards the net a bit. Once the left hand comes off the racquet, extend it out to the side (fence). This should help to ensure that you get a decent coil. The extended left hand also serves as a spatial reference to help you line of the incoming ball. (This usually helps footwork/positioning quite a bit).

tennis+blog+pictures.jpg

djokovic+forehand.jpg

sp7.jpg
 
Your strokes are not bad and your consistency against the wall is impressive. There's a basic stroke there that's good.

But the basic issue on both sides is that you're not using enough core rotation to generate power and you're guiding the racquet through the contact zone - i.e. you're arming the ball. A more powerful stroke uses the power generated from the legs and core to store energy that drives the racquet through the contact zone.

Cheetah pointed out lots of good things on your fh.

It's basically the same issue on your bh. When I freeze your bh video after contact your hips are still facing to the side. Your shoulders have turned to face the wall, but your hips are not driving your shoulders. Watch in this video how Agassi's hips rotate into the shot, followed by his shoulders, and then his hands release from his hips just at the racquet whips around and into the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y

That's what you're not doing.

As far as measuring ball and rh speeds - I'd say don't worry about that for now. 70-80 mph forehands are pretty fast. It's pretty hard to hit them that hard and keep them in without a load of topspin. I'm just not seeing that kind of speed or spin in any of your videos. What I'd focus on is the feeling. When you swing at the ball with a good kinetic chain the racquet just effortlessly whips through the contact zone. That's the feeling you should be going for.
 
*Val* said:
Looks pretty good for intermediate but not sure where you got 90mph forehands from lol...
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I got it from hitting these forehands. I can get these shots in the court too. If you doubt that I can get these shots in the court, I can redo the video if necessary just like the wall consistency video. However, that doesn't mean that I have good technique, footwork, etc in order to hit forehands at that speed.

http://youtu.be/rgVXtshwAp0

Speeds achieved with no warm up. Speed is the same with warm up too I think. The left side of the radar blinking light indicates mph. If the right side blinks the radar is set to km/h.

79
79
82
78
80
78
78
83
83
79
71
86

Are these speeds accurate with the forehands I am hitting?
These speeds are the same when I smash the ball.
90 is my maximum speed for using the YTPP racket just like hitting a 103mph for serve. I can't achieve this max speed often, on some days I can produce the shot and some days I can't. Hitting the forehand with my leaded LM Radical MP I was able to get 90mph and 92mph. On the day I did clock the forehand with the LM Radical I was able to get quite a few 90mph and 92mph hitting at 100% force. At 93mph was where I peaked for that racket while still getting my shot to land on the baseline. At 94mph I just dumped my shot in the net, and I was only able to produce that speed one time in my life so far.


Backhand side is significantly slower. If I hit the ball higher over the net, the ball is going to go around low 60s to 50s. If I skim the net then it will be somewhere in the 70mph range on the backhand. What I've tried so far is make the left hand more dominant, unfortuntly that hand is very weak and I can't seem to hit a one handed slice off that side. When I hit a one handed forhand on that side, the racket twists a lot even when I make clean contact compared to the my right hand. I'll try adding more sholder turn and see what happens.
 
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rkelley said:
As far as measuring ball and rh speeds - I'd say don't worry about that for now. 70-80 mph forehands are pretty fast. It's pretty hard to hit them that hard and keep them in without a load of topspin. I'm just not seeing that kind of speed or spin in any of your videos. What I'd focus on is the feeling. When you swing at the ball with a good kinetic chain the racquet just effortlessly whips through the contact zone. That's the feeling you should be going for.
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very good advice for OP.

just get good technqiue first, try to get the effortless power ,control and consistency down. once you have this then you can ramp up the power level.

you trying for as much power as you possibly can now only leads to injury later on.

dont obsess so much over how fast your forehand is like it's a p1ssing contest. your main goal should be to improve your overall tennis to win.

ask yourself realistically how many of these 70-90 mph forehand can you actually hit in a real match under pressure?

its one thing to jsut smack the crap out of the ball from drop feeds or warmup rally. but in an actual match when your opponent moves you around its a totally different beast.
 
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tennishotdog said:
very good advice for OP.

just get good technqiue first, try to get the effortless power ,control and consistency down. once you have this then you can ramp up the power level.

you trying for as much power as you possibly can now only leads to injury later on.

dont obsess so much over how fast your forehand is like it's a p1ssing contest. your main goal should be to improve your overall tennis to win.
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So I need to stop hitting those type of forehands demonstrated in the radar gun video and rebuild my forehand from scratch?
That was my attempt at using the kinetic chain and left arm coiling, but I'm not sure if I am using any if at all.
I can still hit those forehands even when I am exhasuted and can barely run.
 
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skuludo said:
So I need to stop hitting those type of forehands demonstrated in the radar gun video and rebuild my forehand from scratch?
That was my attempt at using the kinetic chain and left arm coiling, but I'm not sure if I am using any if at all.
I can still hit those forehands even when I am exhasuted and can barely run.
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not rebuild from scratch. your stroke looks good. but like others mentioned use less arm to guide the racket to contact point and get the power more from loading your weight and pushing it off with your feet.
 
tennishotdog said:
not rebuild from scratch. your stroke looks good. but like others mentioned use less arm to guide the racket to contact point and get the power more from loading your weight and pushing it off with your feet.
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So still too much arm in this shot?
If so I'll need to find a way to restrain the arm so I don't use it like this just to build musscle memory.
 
tennishotdog said:
very good advice for OP.

just get good technqiue first, try to get the effortless power ,control and consistency down. once you have this then you can ramp up the power level.

you trying for as much power as you possibly can now only leads to injury later on.

dont obsess so much over how fast your forehand is like it's a p1ssing contest. your main goal should be to improve your overall tennis to win.

ask yourself realistically how many of these 70-90 mph forehand can you actually hit in a real match under pressure?

its one thing to jsut smack the crap out of the ball from drop feeds or warmup rally. but in an actual match when your opponent moves you around its a totally different beast.
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Reallisticly speaking if I were to implement these forehands I need to create a shot that produces a sitter like these drop feeds to decrease the risk when I attempt the shot. My other option is to use this forehand and take my opponents shot on the rise with perfect timing to make the shot and have the ball land in. Right now my timing isn't that good so I'll problem make around 50%. Get half of those in and get another half out. Probly the unforced errors will dominate more depending on how well I am playing. If I am lucky I can probly not miss, like winning the lottery. If I unload at the "right time" I can make them. If I hit a good serve and place it well I get those type of dinky returns and can hit the next shot using the same technique in the radar gun video. Hitting on the run I can not use this technique obviously and requres a different type of forehand to hit on the full stretch. The other option that is safe for me to hit this shot is to stand where Monfils is standing, but I haven't played anyone that can hit the ball consistently that deep to test this hypothesis.

Under pressure I have done this shot off a service return down 5-2 40-15 in the third set and make three in a row. Then Miss. At deuce make another and win another point to break the opponent's serve. And then go on to lose the match in the next game. I lost the next game because I didn't get the placement on those aggressive forehands at 30-30 and my opponent took over the point. Then when I was at net and the opponent was behind the baseline, he hit a drop shot passing shot. I tried to volley and I shanked my volley. I need to make a move closer to the ball to make that volley.
Throughout the whole match I was playing like the first video I posted. Then when I was down 5-2 40-15 I used the parking lot forehands. In other words I went for broke and made them. Then at 5-3 make them again, but failed to place the ball into the corner. What happened was I created three opportunities and I just hit it right to my opponent. He gets them back three times then hits a moonball to my backhand causing me to hit my backhand short. At this point I lost control of the point and he won it with a cross court forehand winner. The score was 5-3 30-30 at this point.


In terms of max power this is what I can do right now.

What am I trying to do right now?
Develop a better rally shot.
What have I been doing so far? Trying to incorporate what I do in the radar gun video and turn it into my rally shot and add more spin to it.

Racket string tension is in the 30lbs range.
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMPTMQTtO-I

When paradorn is on the full run on his forehand did he just use his legs to increase the power and spin on his forehand in the splits position?

I find that when I get a ball really wide like that video the only thing I could do is use my upper body. Which is either torque the upper body or arm the ball.
 
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http://youtu.be/rgVXtshwAp0

These forehands look better than the wall video forehands. There's more kinetic chain.

The trick is you need to get your garage technique out onto the court. You don't need to hit the ball as hard as you can either. You want the form.

Go to a wall and practice that kinetic chain form that you're using in the garage at about 60%. Do all of the things that Cheetah said about setting-up, out front contact point, etc. When you're doing it right you'll be amazed at how hard and consistently you're hitting with little effort. But at first the only things that matters is the form. Consistency and power will come once the form is right.

The other thing to practice is making sure you're generating topspin. Without enough topspin it gets hard to impossible to keep those balls in. The topspin also allows you to take big cuts at the ball but hit a relatively safe shot. That hard, spinny ball has a lot of energy and will translate into a lot of action for your opponent to deal with. From video you posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMPTMQTtO-I), do you see the inside-out fh that Ferrer hits at around 0:10? He set-up, dropped his hand way low into the slot, and really came up and round on the ball. He swung hard at that ball, but a lot of the rhs went into topspin and all the spin gave him reasonable margin even though the ball was low and he was inside the baseline. I'm not saying every shot you hit should have this much topspin, but that's a swing path you want to own.

The good news is that you have a basic stroke that's not too bad, and from your garage hitting you know what the kinetic chain feels like. Put those two together, make sure you able to generate topspin as well as blasting through the ball, and you'll have yourself some nice groundies.
 
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Reallisticly speaking if I were to implement these forehands I need to create a shot that produces a sitter like these drop feeds to decrease the risk when I attempt the shot.
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'These forehands'? your 90mph fh? You can't hit 90mph. It's not going to happen. Your hard shots on the court look less than 70pmh. And 95% of your hard shots are misses.

My other option is to use this forehand and take my opponents shot on the rise with perfect timing to make the shot and have the ball land in. Right now my timing isn't that good so I'll problem make around 50%.
Get half of those in and get another half out.
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Not possible w/ your current form. Currently your hard shots are going out and that's not even taking them on the rise. Hitting on the rise is not easy.

If I hit a good serve and place it well I get those type of dinky returns and can hit the next shot using the same technique in the radar gun video.
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Yea... right into the net or the back fence. How fast is your serve? 150mph?

What am I trying to do right now?
Develop a better rally shot.
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It doesn't appear so. It appears you just want to hit hard. Lots of people have been giving you good advice on technique and posting pictures. All you are talking about over and over is your 90mph fh which you don't have. You haven't commented on or asked any questions regarding technique regarding your footwork, your prep, swing path, contact point, use of legs, left arm, top spin etc etc.

Racket string tension is in the 30lbs range.
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What?? 30 lbs? Let me guess.. you string it this low because you read somewhere that lower tensions give more power right? 30 is way way way too low.

Like I said earlier, Sharapova hits 65-85 which is crushing the ball and sound like a gun. Even she can't hit 90mph consistently and she's 6'2", built like a man, has world class natural talent, has been receiving world class coaching from the age of 11, trains more hours every day than you do in a week, is in peak shape and form and plays on the pro tour and wins grand slams.

You need to forget your 90mph fantasy and get to work on being able to hit 5 balls in row with good contact and some spin. Currently you can't do that. 5 moonballs in a row is not tennis.
 
Cheetah said:
'These forehands'? your 90mph fh? You can't hit 90mph. It's not going to happen. Your hard shots on the court look less than 70pmh. And 95% of your hard shots are misses.



Not possible w/ your current form. Currently your hard shots are going out and that's not even taking them on the rise. Hitting on the rise is not easy.



Yea... right into the net or the back fence. How fast is your serve? 150mph?



It doesn't appear so. It appears you just want to hit hard. Lots of people have been giving you good advice on technique and posting pictures. All you are talking about over and over is your 90mph fh which you don't have. You haven't commented on or asked any questions regarding technique regarding your footwork, your prep, swing path, contact point, use of legs, left arm, top spin etc etc.


What?? 30 lbs? Let me guess.. you string it this low because you read somewhere that lower tensions give more power right? 30 is way way way too low.

Like I said earlier, Sharapova hits 65-85 which is crushing the ball and sound like a gun. Even she can't hit 90mph consistently and she's 6'2", built like a man, has world class natural talent, has been receiving world class coaching from the age of 11, trains more hours every day than you do in a week, is in peak shape and form and plays on the pro tour and wins grand slams.

You need to forget your 90mph fantasy and get to work on being able to hit 5 balls in row with good contact and some spin. Currently you can't do that. 5 moonballs in a row is not tennis.
Click to expand...


The 30lbs tension was an attempt to make my strings last longer not increase power or spin. Regarding footwork I need another video where I try harder so you can see all the errors I am making when I play like a pusher. Regarding my backhand I got the nessecary information. The TW poster said to turn my shoulders more and then unwind.

Ok I have no proof that says that I can hit at least one forehand at 90mph. Can you tell what am I doing wrong when I hit the ball at 86mph? Is this ball going to be out 100% of the time which includes standing right on top of the net and hitting it downwards like a dip drive impersonation?

The loud gun crack sound I think is from the ball colliding against another fast ball. Does it still sound like a gun shot when Sharapova hits a sitter? I have never watched pro tennis in my life, so I don't know what a really fast ball looks like. My impression is solely based on my radar gun right now. And the swing speed radar from On Court Off Court. http://www.oncourtoffcourt.com/Swing-Speed-Radar.html

Let's just about forget the power I claim to generate and move on to a more productive disscussion.

Am I using my left arm properly in the radar gun video?
Am I still using too much arm in the radar gun video?
Am I using my hips in the radar gun video?
If the answer is no, yes, no then I have no idea how to use the hips on my forehand and reduce arm usage. I have done the drill where the lockandroll guy did the little monkey drum demonstration, but it appears that I just don't understand how to use my hips and decrease arm usage.

Can you honestly answer those three questions please? I need a frame of reference to improve. Thanks Cheetah.

Didn't you already give me enough advice on my takeback? You told me to do the pat the dog with my racket face during my take back. Someone also told me to extend my left arm more instead of my tucked in position.
Is that tucked in postition bad like in the radar gun video?


My serve sucks too. I am watching those videos regarding pronation, and trying to keep the sholder closed longer. I think I keep opening up my sholders too soon, and I have an erratic toss. When I have somthing worth posting I'll do that. I'll try and see if I can fix it, if not I'll turn here for advice for my situation. I do hit my serve out side the fence too just like that Serbian WTA player when she was serving on a windy day. This happens whenever I completly miss the strings and just hit the frame.


Leed said that I pull away on my forehand when I hit topspin. That is what I do when I try to hit a topspin forehand and there is a significant reduction in pace, but it's consistent. That is how I play as a pusher, which is what you saw in the wall video. My tennis right now is not tennis. It's a pushers game, and not a counter pucnher's game. I've got that in my head now. Whether I consistantly hit the ball over the net low or how right now it's still a pusher's game. Which you claim doesn't matter how consistent it is, it's still not tennis right?

My game last year was filled with more errors. I couldn't even push the ball over the net with my forehand. My backhand was just as bad. I was not able to hit 20 or 40 shots in a row against that wall last year. So at the moment this is what I can do this year as posted in the videos.





Summary of questions asked in this post:
Does Maria Sharapova's forehand still sound like a gun shot when she hits a sitter?
Am I using my left arm properly in the radar gun video?
Am I still using too much arm in the radar gun video?
Am I using my hips in the radar gun video?
In the radar gun video am I still not extending properly on my left hand? I always felt like the way I am doing it in the readar gun video without reaching out with my left arm outwards like in the pictures posted above, I get more coil around the ab area.
 
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The swing path I am using right now is grabbing a hold of the tennis ball and extending out. (Grab and then throw the ball over the net. Sort of like the illegal hit shot.)
That may be why I am trying to hit so close to my body. When I tried hitting further away from my body it felt like I was not "hitting through" the ball and I just dumped those in the net. I've even tried hitting so far out in front that I was reaching for the ball, but that didn't help my game in anyway.


Do you understand what I am trying to say?

If you understand what I am trying to say what should I do with my swing path?
 
rkelley said:
Your strokes are not bad and your consistency against the wall is impressive. There's a basic stroke there that's good.

But the basic issue on both sides is that you're not using enough core rotation to generate power and you're guiding the racquet through the contact zone - i.e. you're arming the ball. A more powerful stroke uses the power generated from the legs and core to store energy that drives the racquet through the contact zone.

Cheetah pointed out lots of good things on your fh.

It's basically the same issue on your bh. When I freeze your bh video after contact your hips are still facing to the side. Your shoulders have turned to face the wall, but your hips are not driving your shoulders. Watch in this video how Agassi's hips rotate into the shot, followed by his shoulders, and then his hands release from his hips just at the racquet whips around and into the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y

That's what you're not doing.

As far as measuring ball and rh speeds - I'd say don't worry about that for now. 70-80 mph forehands are pretty fast. It's pretty hard to hit them that hard and keep them in without a load of topspin. I'm just not seeing that kind of speed or spin in any of your videos. What I'd focus on is the feeling. When you swing at the ball with a good kinetic chain the racquet just effortlessly whips through the contact zone. That's the feeling you should be going for.
Click to expand...

Can you describe what agassi is doing in words. Like the sequence of how long to keep the sholders closed and the timing of when he opens up to maximize his power?

I think my right hand is still very dominant in my backhand. What do you suggest to make it more left hand dominant?
It appears I have no ability to watch the video and understand what is going on.
 
My forehand grip. What grip am I using? Eastern?

31504mt.jpg


2qs8j2v.jpg


v6opc7.jpg





My consistency will be like last year with my current technique if I turn the racket more where my knuckle rests on the bevel below where it is resting on right now. I'll hit even more shots in the net or long. Also, the forehand speed will be even more slower than it is right now using my current bad technique.
 
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The 30lbs tension was an attempt to make my strings last longer not increase power or spin.
Click to expand...

30 is way too low. It's insane. it should be in the 50's. Maybe high 40's after you know what you're doing.

Ok I have no proof that says that I can hit at least one forehand at 90mph. Can you tell what am I doing wrong when I hit the ball at 86mph? Is this ball going to be out 100% of the time which includes standing right on top of the net and hitting it downwards like a dip drive impersonation?
Click to expand...

Probably going out. You're not supposed to hit 90mph fhs when you're at the net.

The loud gun crack sound I think is from the ball colliding against another fast ball.
Click to expand...

No it's from making good contact with good weight into the shot.

Does it still sound like a gun shot when Sharapova hits a sitter?
Click to expand...

Most likely no. She just places the ball where the opponent isnt. She wants to win the point, not see how hard she can hit a sitter so she can tell her friends about her 90mph sitter fh at the net. And she probably doesn't want to get laughed at by the commentators on tv and yelled at by her coach asking why she hit the ball so hard causing it go long when she had an easy sitter.

Am I using my left arm properly in the radar gun video?
Click to expand...

I don't know. can't tell really but I'm going to guess no. haha. it doesn't matter. hitting a drop fed ball where you have all the time in the world in an underground parking lot in the dark on cement is not the same as having to get into position facing an incoming top spin shot from a human.

it appears that I just don't understand how to use my hips and decrease arm usage.
Click to expand...

Spend more time watching more how to videos online. watch lockandroll, fuzzy yellow balls, xstf, serve doctor, tennisone videos.

My tennis right now is not tennis. It's a pushers game, and not a counter pucnher's game. I've got that in my head now. Whether I consistantly hit the ball over the net low or how right now it's still a pusher's game. Which you claim doesn't matter how consistent it is, it's still not tennis right?
Click to expand...

Just forget i said that. You need to change your mindframe. Watch more videos. practice what you learn against the wall. shadow swing at home. come back here and ask specific questions and post vids or your progress. Currently your learning process is not correct. You need to start over. Pick one piece, stroke, technique to work on and when you have a problem come here for help. You're pretty athletic. If you focus more and practice smart you'll get better. The longer you continue those bad strokes the more time it's going to take to fix them.

... and learn how to wrap your grip properly.

Take a look at the picture i posted. Tell me 2 things wrong in that picture.
 
Cheetah said:
ok. well i was picturing a different type of wall. with the wall i practice on if you hit a bad shot the rally is over. my wall is partially surrounded on all sides with other walls so you have to hit a consistent ball otherwise the ball will hit another wall or bounce into the the enclosed area of the next 'cube' where someone else could be hitting. with my wall you can't back up infinitely like yours and you can't move as wide as you want like yours. If you were on my wall you would not be able to hit 40 ball rallies. But you did better than i thought you would actually so props to you.

Anyway,
you are not getting a good strike on the ball on your bh. It looks like you're leading with the tip of the racquet. You're not hitting it clean.

Your contact point on fh is too far back as i said before.

You need to work on getting into position better. You hit every ball at a different height and distance from your body. That means your footwork is inconsistent and lazy. This leads to inconsistent ball striking.

You are also not making good contact on the fh. It's not clean enough and on the wimpy side. This is not due to your ability. This is technique probs.
There's no weight into the ball. Contact point is wrong. Arming the ball. Rotation not timed perfectly. No kinetic chain.

Here's your contact below. There are a lot of things wrong in this picture.
What can you see here that needs improvement?

31651325.png
Click to expand...

I'll try answering the question about this picture. I'm not hitting the ball far in front enough. I can get into a more athletic stance and lower the center of my gravity. Spacing between the ball and body is too close causing the arm to have excess double bend.
When I was hitting against the wall I was did feel like some shots I hit were too close, and not far in front enough. At that point I felt like I could not drive the ball out or apply decent topspin for the amount of effort I was putting into the shot. Also, I was trying to slow down the pace of my forehand in that wall video. I was under the impression that I should never hit hard against the wall, so thats what I was trying to do.


The purpose of the drop feed is to try to find the ideal positioning if I had all the time in the world. If I can't find the contact position even in that situtation then I won't find it in an actual live situation. Is this reasoning that I have in my mind unreasonable?
If I do find the right contact point all I would need to do is repeat under a live situation is what I have been thinking about the entire time.
In the parking lot video I was not thinking about how much distance to space myself between the ball.
 
rkelley said:
http://youtu.be/rgVXtshwAp0

These forehands look better than the wall video forehands. There's more kinetic chain.

The trick is you need to get your garage technique out onto the court. You don't need to hit the ball as hard as you can either. You want the form.

Go to a wall and practice that kinetic chain form that you're using in the garage at about 60%. Do all of the things that Cheetah said about setting-up, out front contact point, etc. When you're doing it right you'll be amazed at how hard and consistently you're hitting with little effort. But at first the only things that matters is the form. Consistency and power will come once the form is right.

The other thing to practice is making sure you're generating topspin. Without enough topspin it gets hard to impossible to keep those balls in. The topspin also allows you to take big cuts at the ball but hit a relatively safe shot. That hard, spinny ball has a lot of energy and will translate into a lot of action for your opponent to deal with. From video you posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMPTMQTtO-I), do you see the inside-out fh that Ferrer hits at around 0:10? He set-up, dropped his hand way low into the slot, and really came up and round on the ball. He swung hard at that ball, but a lot of the rhs went into topspin and all the spin gave him reasonable margin even though the ball was low and he was inside the baseline. I'm not saying every shot you hit should have this much topspin, but that's a swing path you want to own.

The good news is that you have a basic stroke that's not too bad, and from your garage hitting you know what the kinetic chain feels like. Put those two together, make sure you able to generate topspin as well as blasting through the ball, and you'll have yourself some nice groundies.
Click to expand...

I can increase my topspin, however I have trouble with framing the ball at the moment. The ones where I used that garage swing speed to produce pure topspin really jumped off the court when I tried these forehands last week. My directional accuracy is still poor though with that heavy topspin. The only direction thats consistent is up the middle with my heavier topspin. Trying to hit it out wide in the the corner against an incoming ball I tend spray the shot up the middle too much.

In summary, do everything exactly the same as the garage at 60% and use that energy to increase spin to speed ratio?

What is the ideal forward ball velocity speed I should be aiming for before I know it's a good shot?

Do I need to extend out on the left arm more or is it already enough (parking lot video)?
If no one can see this then I can create another video with more intensity with a front and side view. (This video will take some time to record depending on the weather, available hitting partners, etc.)
 
skuludo said:
I'll try answering the question about this picture. I'm not hitting the ball far in front enough. I can get into a more athletic stance and lower the center of my gravity. Spacing between the ball and body is too close causing the arm to have excess double bend.
When I was hitting against the wall I was did feel like some shots I hit were too close, and not far in front enough. At that point I felt like I could not drive the ball out or apply decent topspin for the amount of effort I was putting into the shot. Also, I was trying to slow down the pace of my forehand in that wall video. I was under the impression that I should never hit hard against the wall, so thats what I was trying to do.


The purpose of the drop feed is to try to find the ideal positioning if I had all the time in the world. If I can't find the contact position even in that situtation then I won't find it in an actual live situation. Is this reasoning that I have in my mind unreasonable?
If I do find the right contact point all I would need to do is repeat under a live situation is what I have been thinking about the entire time.
In the parking lot video I was not thinking about how much distance to space myself between the ball.
Click to expand...

. elbow too close in
. raquet is not squared up to ball. looks like you were leading w/ the tip of the raqcuet
. right foot is in front of the left foot
. you're flat footed
. no knee bend
. you didnt push off your right leg
. too much elbow bend
. right toe pointing at weird angle
. hips and torso not rotated enough
. contact not out in front enough probably
. contact point probably too high
. racquet face might be closed too much. maybe
. where's your left arm??

that's a lot of issues you need to address.

practice finding the right contact point on a wall. not by drop feeding.

63639419.png
 
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Xizel said:
I don't believe he specified string type. For polys, 30 is acceptable. If you follow the strings section, low tension with polys is a norm. See: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=319527

Just wanted to elaborate. I personally string polys in the lower 30s and they're great.
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Yes i know about that thread. I haven't tried super low tensions yet. Maybe i'll give it a try. When you first switched to low wasn't it uncontrollable? I hear when you have tensions that low there is no feedback, no power and much less control. but it gives more spin. plus you can't flatten out balls if you want because it will trampoline and volleys are unpredictable. is that what you've found? I think the norm is still high 40's and 50's. For every person in that thread there are probably 30,000 more who string at traditional tensions.
 
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Cheetah said:
Yes i know about that thread. I haven't tried super low tensions yet. Maybe i'll give it a try. When you first switched to low wasn't it uncontrollable? I hear when you have tensions that low there is no feedback, no power and much less control. but it gives more spin. plus you can't flatten out balls if you want because it will trampoline and volleys are unpredictable. is that what you've found? I think the norm is still high 40's and 50's. For every person in that thread there are probably 30,000 more who string at traditional tensions.
Click to expand...

It was uncontrollable at first with the same strokes, but after a transitioning phase, you adapt to the higher launch angle and with it, I believe you get more power, spin, and a different feel vs a higher tension string bed. However, I must admit volleys took a longer time to adapt for. Flattening balls wasn't an issue for me and I didn't notice anything relating to that. I agree that 40s and 50s are more common, but lower than that is becoming more known and accepted. Obviously some strings are more playable at 30s than others.

Sorry to OP for going off topic. I'll refrain from so after this.
 
You guys DO know that OP CAN hit a decent fast forehand, but he CANNOT do it against a live opponent.
On the wall, he hits flat and follows thru to his left side, wrapping around his left shoulder.
Against the opponent, he hits the ball like he's afraid it might break his racket, or his arm. He pulls up and stops the followthru, with a weirdo wrist flicky rollover, nothing like pronating. Just a wierdo finish.
OP might be a very good wall basher, better than most of us.
OP tends to choke under pressure, making him the ultimate pusher when he plays against another PERSON.
 
Xizel said:
It was uncontrollable at first with the same strokes, but after a transitioning phase, you adapt to the higher launch angle and with it, I believe you get more power, spin, and a different feel vs a higher tension string bed. However, I must admit volleys took a longer time to adapt for. Flattening balls wasn't an issue for me and I didn't notice anything relating to that. I agree that 40s and 50s are more common, but lower than that is becoming more known and accepted. Obviously some strings are more playable at 30s than others.

Sorry to OP for going off topic. I'll refrain from so after this.
Click to expand...

Thanks. i think i'm going to try a bit lower this week just to check it out
 
I'm working on improving a few shots and it is truly amazing how different it is hitting against a wall or ball machine vs. a human lol
 
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