Forehand takeback question

[oldhacker]

I recently videoed my forehand for the first time and was amazed by what I saw in my takeback in real play. I discovered that once my hand is behind my should (ie I cannot see it) I do something completely different to what I thought I did and what I do if I swing in front of the mirror.

I do my shoulder turn and first part of takeback (ie after non-hitting hand has let go) with the racquet fairly high vertical and tip pointing forward. I expected to see this.

But, from there, then instead taking the racquet back behind by elbow and down as I expected I found I take it back (to the point where my arm is nearly straight behind me) and up - such that my hand it at shoulder height and the racquet tip is point to the sky. From there I drop down and pull into the ball OK. But I am very concerned about this extra bit of very high takeback I am doing which I think is causing a few problems:

1. The very high long backswing I use can make me late on fast balls (I now know why I love playing on slow courts).

2. The position I get the racquet to (I use an extreme easterm / mild SW grip) at the top of my backswing seems to open the racquet face a bit. This seems to correct in the forward swing but I am sure it is not ideal.

3. The straight arm behind me does not seem a great idea as it loses the elbow bend - although I do seem to get this back on the forward swing.

So overall I think I have too much going on (open face, straight arm) which corrects in the forward swing but must mean more errors and the backswing is just too long and high.

I am trying to correct it (which I am finding hard as clearly once I cannot see my hand and racquet they do not do what my brain thinks they do or what they do in front of a mirror) and need some tips and visualisations to help me to keep the racquet lower, keep the face closed and stop me from straightening the arm. Any advice?

One thing I am trying is to change my shoulder turn so that I take the racquet more out to the side and further away from me (rather than close and pointing forward) and then get the racquet behind me and down earlier. The problem I find with this is that it throws my rhythm as I end up having to pause with the racquet straight back behind me in order that I do not swing forward too early. Is this pause bad or can I get used to it?

I have also tried to technique used by many ATP pros of keep the racquet tip up and forwards until very late with the snap back almost being caused by the leg and hip puch forward. But I just do not have the timing to execute this consistantly even though the late stretch back of the wrist does seem to give more power.

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[Jimmyk459]

post the video on youtube or something so we can help

 

[ipodtennispro]

Straight take back

edit edit edit

 

[wihamilton]

Post a video so we can take a look.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I recently videoed my forehand for the first time and was amazed by what I saw in my takeback in real play. I discovered that once my hand is behind my should (ie I cannot see it) I do something completely different to what I thought I did and what I do if I swing in front of the mirror.

I do my shoulder turn and first part of takeback (ie after non-hitting hand has let go) with the racquet fairly high vertical and tip pointing forward. I expected to see this.

But, from there, then instead taking the racquet back behind by elbow and down as I expected I found I take it back (to the point where my arm is nearly straight behind me) and up - such that my hand it at shoulder height and the racquet tip is point to the sky. From there I drop down and pull into the ball OK. But I am very concerned about this extra bit of very high takeback I am doing which I think is causing a few problems:

1. The very high long backswing I use can make me late on fast balls (I now know why I love playing on slow courts).

2. The position I get the racquet to (I use an extreme easterm / mild SW grip) at the top of my backswing seems to open the racquet face a bit. This seems to correct in the forward swing but I am sure it is not ideal.

3. The straight arm behind me does not seem a great idea as it loses the elbow bend - although I do seem to get this back on the forward swing.

A long backswing will require exceptional timing. If you are not able to time the ball on a consistent basis then it is time to alter the stroke so you can time the ball consistently.

With your toes pointed perpendicular to the net, imagine a line going fro your front foot toes to the back fence.

When you take your racquet back, you should take it no farther then that. What happens when you take it back further is your brain will lose track of where the racquet head is at. This is something I have said over and over again in my posts.

You sort of confirmed that by you seeing yourself in a video and being surprised as to where your racquet head really is.

You need to learn to use more of your body in the stroke. The hips, the shoulders, the legs, the torso, etc. the provide the momentum for your swing.

If you take the racquet back as I described above, it will feel awkward at first but what it is doing is keeping your racquet in an area that the brain can use to calculate where the racquet head is in relation to an incoming ball.

After you discipline yourself here, you can put a little preference into to it and take it a bit further back but not too much.

 

[paulfreda]

BB

I am confused by your description, so maybe others are as well.

Where should his racquet tip [12 oclock looking at the strings as if it were a clock]
be pointing where you want his frame at full takeback ?
Pointing to side fence; or back fence ? What ?

Thanx and nice to see you around TTF again.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

BB

I am confused by your description, so maybe others are as well.

Where should his racquet tip [12 oclock looking at the strings as if it were a clock]
be pointing where you want his frame at full takeback ?
Pointing to side fence; or back fence ? What ?

Thanx and nice to see you around TTF again.

Keep in mind that when I explain this it is representing a shorter backswing for all stances to increase one's ability to meet the ball on time for various ball speeds and spins in different stances. This will greatly help your timing and consistency. It will also force you to learn to hit with your body more.

What you will find by this description is that it pretty much sums up the unit turn as the main contributor to the racquet takeback and really nothing else. As a player disciplines themselves in this exercise they will then modify it slightly to suit their preferences.

1. Stand on the baseline with both feet turned so that you are perpendicular to the net. In other words, your front shoulder is pointing toward the net and your back shoulder is to the back fence. So in essence, you are standing sideways.

2. Pretend an imaginary line runs from the net to the back fence and runs across or over your toes on both feet.

3. When you take your backswing, take the racquet back no further then the line. So in other words, do not cross over it. Keep it in front of the line or on it.

When you do this, this is about the biggest backswing you want to take and one that should be worked on to make it habit.

Is that better?

 

[oldhacker]

Thanks Bill - all very helpful. You are so right about how the (or my) brain cannot track the racquet once it is behind the line of the shoulders. I had a similar problem with my serve until recently in that instead of reaching a trophy position with the racquet tip point forwards and skywards I was flexing the wrist towards the thumb and supinating so that the racquet head dropped below my hand and behind my shoulder at my trophy position. This was also cuasing me to over-rotate my shoulder joint bringing the racquet further behind my shoulder line. Once I realised what I was doing it was easy to fix by concentrating on keeping my wrist laterally flexed towards the little finger (pinkie in American) side from the start of the takeback to the trophy position. The difference it made to my serve after just one practice session was quite staggering. It has given a big increase in both pace and consistancy on my first serve and is really enabling me to hit with a lot more spin on my second serve.

A couple more questions on forehand takeback if I may:

1. Is it a problem to have a slight pause at the end of the backswing? I have noticed that when I take the ball earlier (something I need to work on doing more) the extra unwanted portion of my backswing disappears to some extent. I therefore think that my brain is trying to fill in time while keeping moving when it does that big high behind the shoulder bit I want to get rid of. And if I introduced a pause I could eliminate it.

2. Is it OK to take the racquet back more out to the side? My visualisation is to think of pushing the racquet out to towards the side fence with the non-hitting hand once I have completed my shoulder turn and my non-hitting arm is parallel with the baseline. I find taking the racquet out to the side more means I will have a lot further to go to get it behind my shoulder line so it just will not happen before I commence the forward swing.

Thanks again for your help.

A long backswing will require exceptional timing. If you are not able to time the ball on a consistent basis then it is time to alter the stroke so you can time the ball consistently.

With your toes pointed perpendicular to the net, imagine a line going fro your front foot toes to the back fence.

When you take your racquet back, you should take it no farther then that. What happens when you take it back further is your brain will lose track of where the racquet head is at. This is something I have said over and over again in my posts.

You sort of confirmed that by you seeing yourself in a video and being surprised as to where your racquet head really is.

You need to learn to use more of your body in the stroke. The hips, the shoulders, the legs, the torso, etc. the provide the momentum for your swing.

If you take the racquet back as I described above, it will feel awkward at first but what it is doing is keeping your racquet in an area that the brain can use to calculate where the racquet head is in relation to an incoming ball.

After you discipline yourself here, you can put a little preference into to it and take it a bit further back but not too much.

 

[oldhacker]

Thanks ipodtennis pro - I will try it. I hit with a semi-open stance. Your idea about playing service box tennis is a good one. I have always noticed that I struggle with my forehand whenever I we play service box tennis as part of a warm-up and now I realise it is because the shortet amount of time I have is exposing my long take-back.

When you talk about delaying the takeback do you mean to perform the shoulder / unit turn as early as possible (which is a must in my book) but then pause before letting go with the non-hitting hand and taking the racquet back with the shoulder? The alternative to this is to take the racquet back but to introduce a pause before it goes behind my shoulder line.

I recently videoed my forehand for the first time and was amazed by what I saw in my takeback in real play. I discovered that once my hand is behind my should (ie I cannot see it) I do something completely different to what I thought I did and what I do if I swing in front of the mirror.


Wow, that was one of the best self-diagnosed descriptions of a stroke. I do not even have to see a video and I can visualize that take back of yours. The great thing about this is you were able to pick this up by watching yourself on video.

One thing that you may want to try to do to break this habit is to use an exaggerated open stance and delay the take back. You didn't mention what your stance is and it should NOT be a linear or closed stance. If you are using a closed stance you will have a hard time breaking this habit. By using your "unit turn" (shoulder turn and hips) and setting up with your feet correctly you have the best chance. Everybody is different, however, this is relatively easy to do if you can discipline yourself to delay the take back and not take the racket back too early. But it does start with the feet.

So, first things first, plant your outside leg closer to the ball and try hitting crosscourt only and practice this movement. Better yet, if you can get your hands on these new transition foam balls, stand with a partner diagonally in opposite service boxes and hit hundreds of crosscourt only forehands.

Good luck!

 

[oldhacker]

Hi paulfreda - one of the things I find about the direction of the racquet tip is that it is greatly changed by the position of the wrist rather than the arm / hand. For example, if you take your arm back you until your hand is in line with your shoulder the racquet tip will point at the side fence if your wrist is pronated and flexed towards the thumb side and at the back fence if your wrist is supinated and flexed towards the little finger side. So I guess you can have your arm taken back the right amount at the end of your takeback but where the racquet tip points is then determined by other factors (ie the position of the wrist).

BB

I am confused by your description, so maybe others are as well.

Where should his racquet tip [12 oclock looking at the strings as if it were a clock]
be pointing where you want his frame at full takeback ?
Pointing to side fence; or back fence ? What ?

Thanx and nice to see you around TTF again.

 

[ipodtennispro]

Semi- open stance

Thanks ipodtennis pro - I will try it. I hit with a semi-open stance. Your idea about playing service box tennis is a good one. I have always noticed that I struggle with my forehand whenever I we play service box tennis as part of a warm-up and now I realise it is because the shortet amount of time I have is exposing my long take-back.

When you talk about delaying the takeback do you mean to perform the shoulder / unit turn as early as possible (which is a must in my book) but then pause before letting go with the non-hitting hand and taking the racquet back with the shoulder? The alternative to this is to take the racquet back but to introduce a pause before it goes behind my shoulder line.



Actually, I mean this:

http://iws.punahou.edu/user/lcouillard/Rotatehit.m4v

Right now this is the most popular video on my site and people seem to have connected to what Dr. Porter is saying.

This looks simple but it is not. See if this make any sense.

Good Luck

 

[Bungalo Bill]

A couple more questions on forehand takeback if I may:

1. Is it a problem to have a slight pause at the end of the backswing? I have noticed that when I take the ball earlier (something I need to work on doing more) the extra unwanted portion of my backswing disappears to some extent. I therefore think that my brain is trying to fill in time while keeping moving when it does that big high behind the shoulder bit I want to get rid of. And if I introduced a pause I could eliminate it.

Things happen, however you should try to have a smooth fluent backswing that works well with the forward swing. I am carefully saying this because I don't know if your paus in the swing is technically called a hitch.

Always try tobe smooth and have a continuous motion when you think it is time to take a stroke at the ball.

2. Is it OK to take the racquet back more out to the side? My visualisation is to think of pushing the racquet out to towards the side fence with the non-hitting hand once I have completed my shoulder turn and my non-hitting arm is parallel with the baseline. I find taking the racquet out to the side more means I will have a lot further to go to get it behind my shoulder line so it just will not happen before I commence the forward swing.

I am not a big subscriber for that. I think the racquet should be taken back so that the racquet can come along side of the body naturally. Pulling out more to the side, IMO, adds more complexity to the swing.

 

[Kid Carlos]

Some good tips on the takeback for the forehand and other shots on www.theatpblog.com

 

[Ash_Smith]

To back up what BB was saying with his line takeback idea...

The vast majority on the ATP tour keep the racquet on the right side of the body for the forehand (assuming they're right handed of course!!!)