oserver

Professional
#1
I've been advocating open style tennis serves fore a while now. Since my practices and my point of view were in direct contradiction to the 'official' recommendations for coaching/training tennis serves, one can imaging the overwhelming negative responses I got so far. Even so, I have been encouraged by players who know me well and players/coaches who have the curiosity and being open minded. This year maybe a special year for my open tennis endeavor, seeing two elite players who switched to use open stance to serve (plus seeing Venus also come back to semi-open stance for her first serves at Wimbledon this year).


Nikola Mektic

Viktor Troicki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcFOZMQ72Y

Before I found out that both Mektic and Troicki had changed their serve stance to open stance form, I published a new article titled "Forehand Tennis Serve". My prediction is that once the stance is opened, the open grip serve and open wrist serve (at contact point, the' player's wrist is more at extension side than at neutral side, like the wrist position of modern forehand) will follow. Those three opennesses are neat alignments to the modern forehand forms and techniques. Here is the link to the Forehand Tennis Serve paper -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/forehand-serve-gary-e-lou/

I've posted above links at another thread named "Open Tennis Serve". Since most of the contents I posted there were before the publication of "Forehand Tennis Serve" paper, I like to start a fresh discussion thread -

Will more elite players follow Mektic and Troicki (Venus Williams too if she is committed to a more open stance serve form)? Will these events start a new tennis serve trend?

Will the open stance serve lead to open grip serve and open wrist serve (WETS serve as I called it earlier) to unify tennis serve and forehand forms and techniques?

Welcome your opinions and critiques. Hope I don't get banned again by posting above links.
 
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Curious

Hall of Fame
#2
I've been advocating open style tennis serves fore a while now. Since my practices and my point of view were in direct contradiction to the 'official' recommendations for coaching/training tennis serves, one can imaging the overwhelming negative responses I go so far. Even so, I have been encouraged by players who know me well and players/coaches who have the curiosity and an open mind. This year maybe a special year for my open tennis endeavor, seeing two elite players who switched to use open stance to serve (plus seeing Venus also come back to semi-open stance for her first serves at Wimbledon this year).


Nikola Mektic

Viktor Troicki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcFOZMQ72Y

Before I found out that both Mektic and Troicki had changed their serve stance to open stance form, I published an new article titled "Forehand Tennis Serve". My prediction is that once the stance is opened, the open grip serve and open wrist serve (at contact point, the' player's wrist is more at extension side than at neutral side, like the wrist position of modern forehand) will follow. Those three opennesses are neat alignments to the modern forehand forms and techniques. Here is the link to the Forehand Tennis Serve paper -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/forehand-serve-gary-e-lou/

I've posted above links at another thread named "Open Tennis Serve". Since most of the contents I posted there were before the publication of "Forehand Tennis Serve" paper, I like to start a fresh discussion thread -

Will more elite players follow Mektic and Troicki (Venus Williams too if she is committed to a more open stance serve form)? Will these events start a new tennis serve trend?

Will the open stance serve lead to open grip serve and open wrist serve (WETS serve as I called it earlier) to unify tennis serve and forehand forms and techniques?

Welcome your opinions and critiques. Hope I don't get banned again by posting above links.
Do you or anyone else have a video showing that type of serve?
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#3
I've been advocating open style tennis serves fore a while now. Since my practices and my point of view were in direct contradiction to the 'official' recommendations for coaching/training tennis serves, one can imaging the overwhelming negative responses I go so far. Even so, I have been encouraged by players who know me well and players/coaches who have the curiosity and an open mind. This year maybe a special year for my open tennis endeavor, seeing two elite players who switched to use open stance to serve (plus seeing Venus also come back to semi-open stance for her first serves at Wimbledon this year).


Nikola Mektic

Viktor Troicki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcFOZMQ72Y

Before I found out that both Mektic and Troicki had changed their serve stance to open stance form, I published an new article titled "Forehand Tennis Serve". My prediction is that once the stance is opened, the open grip serve and open wrist serve (at contact point, the' player's wrist is more at extension side than at neutral side, like the wrist position of modern forehand) will follow. Those three opennesses are neat alignments to the modern forehand forms and techniques. Here is the link to the Forehand Tennis Serve paper -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/forehand-serve-gary-e-lou/

I've posted above links at another thread named "Open Tennis Serve". Since most of the contents I posted there were before the publication of "Forehand Tennis Serve" paper, I like to start a fresh discussion thread -

Will more elite players follow Mektic and Troicki (Venus Williams too if she is committed to a more open stance serve form)? Will these events start a new tennis serve trend?

Will the open stance serve lead to open grip serve and open wrist serve (WETS serve as I called it earlier) to unify tennis serve and forehand forms and techniques?

Welcome your opinions and critiques. Hope I don't get banned again by posting above links.
Can you explain how your "open stance serve" is better than Sampras' serve?
 
#4
is their a video of this serve you're talking about? the video you showed.. i only watched a tiny bit but nothing stood out. and i don't wanna watch the full doubles match haha.
 

oserver

Professional
#6
is their a video of this serve you're talking about? the video you showed.. i only watched a tiny bit but nothing stood out. and i don't wanna watch the full doubles match haha.
Thank you Searah. Here are two videos I recorded on YouYube -



There was an earlier paper I wrote last year that explained the Forehand Serve in more detail. That time I called it in deferent names - the Wrist Extension Tennis Serve (WETS), Passive Arm Serve and so on -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-tennis-serve-techniques-gary-lou/
 

oserver

Professional
#9
Can you explain how your "open stance serve" is better than Sampras' serve?
There maybe two things in this comparison - is open stance serve better than the closed stance serve? If the answer is no, then is it a viable alternative? For my experiences, I definitely believe the open stance serve is better than the closed stance serve. Plus if it is followed by open grip and open wrist, a player's full serve potential can be all released. Everyone's preferences can be differ; I don't believe one size (or one kind) fit all dogma. That leads to the second question - is it a viable alternative? Definitely, it is simple to learn, fast to see results, plus the passive arm technique may save your tennis elbow for good.

The current teaching dogma for tennis serve is rigid - you have to use continental grip and pronation, or else ... period! No alternative. So, even if the "open stance serve" or the "Forehand Tennis Serve" is not better than the conventional tennis serve, if it can be a viable alternative, will it be a good thing?
 

oserver

Professional
#10
What ever happened to 360 serve?
If you watch a section of the first video at 2:37, you can see some extreme body turns serves at more than 180 degree. I don't like to get viewers dizzy for posting more extreme body turns serves this time. A lot of people got dizzy there already in the old thread "Open Tennis Serve";).
 

oserver

Professional
#12
Thanks. It looks to me like a usual serve with chest facing the net hence minimal torso rotation. What do you mean by open grip and open wrist?
Did you notice that I was using semi-western grip, my forehand grip to serve, not continental grip (only in the second video starting at 0:07, I did a few serves using the pin-point stance and continental grip)? Continental plus or minus grips are closed grips, and eastern forehand grip and semi-western grip are open grips.

Open wrist means that at contact point, the wrist is still at or close to extension state, not at neutral state as in the conventional serve situation. For forehand strokes, the wrist at extension state is possible, signified by Federer's forehand techniques. For serve, even it is very hard to contact the ball when the wrist is at a fully extension state, it is possible to minimize the wrist flexing to hit the ball before the wrist goes to the neutral state. If you watch the second video at 0:31-0:32, you can see clearly that my wrist was not at neutral state at the contact point (it went to neutral state when my arm is parallel to the ground).

Why copy the forehand techniques to minimize the wrist flexing? We can discuss this in more detail later.
 

Curious

Hall of Fame
#13
Did you notice that I was using semi-western grip, my forehand grip to serve, not continental grip (only in the second video starting at 0:07, I did a few serves using the pin-point stance and continental grip)? Continental plus or minus grips are closed grips, and eastern forehand grip and semi-western grip are open grips.

Open wrist means that at contact point, the wrist is still at or close to extension state, not at neutral state as in the conventional serve situation. For forehand strokes, the wrist at extension state is possible, signified by Federer's forehand techniques. For serve, even it is very hard to contact the ball when the wrist is at a fully extension state, it is possible to minimize the wrist flexing to hit the ball before the wrist goes to the neutral state. If you watch the second video at 0:31-0:32, you can see clearly that my wrist was not at neutral state at the contact point (it went to neutral state when my arm is parallel to the ground).

Why copy the forehand techniques to minimize the wrist flexing? We can discuss this in more detail later.
Yeah, what's the benefit of having wrist in the extended position at contact?
 

oserver

Professional
#15
Yeah, what's the benefit of having wrist in the extended position at contact?
In the paper "Open Tennis Serve Techniques", I compared Federer's forehand with Agassi's. Federer's wrist was kept fully at extension state both before and immediately after the contact point, almost without any wrist flexing. Agassi did some wrist flexing and his forehand had more forward and linear momentum component, while Federer's had less linear but more angular momentum component. The more one flexes the wrist, the tighter the grip of the racket, the more rigid of the arm-racket link, the quicker the ball bounce off the racket, the less time for big muscle groups to exert the force to make a stronger shot. A loose wrist is the key to make better shot. The only way to let the wrist loose is keeping the wrist at extension state.

Even Agassi and Federer don't have a big age gap, they belong to two different generation of tennis players. The way they use their wrist when execute their forehand shot must be a very important factor to explain the generation gap.

 
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#16
Thank you Searah. Here are two videos I recorded on YouYube -



There was an earlier paper I wrote last year that explained the Forehand Serve in more detail. That time I called it in deferent names - the Wrist Extension Tennis Serve (WETS), Passive Arm Serve and so on -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-tennis-serve-techniques-gary-lou/
Thanks for posting. I like the simplicity of the serve. Those are all "one bouncers". The percentage rate is so high, that if it was used for second serves, there would probably be only one double fault per set. Worth emulating.
 

oserver

Professional
#17
Thanks for posting. I like the simplicity of the serve. Those are all "one bouncers". The percentage rate is so high, that if it was used for second serves, there would probably be only one double fault per set. Worth emulating.
Thank you for your encouraging reply! There is a section of the first video starting at 5:54 that shows the second serves. They are high net clearance, high bouncing serves and are still using the open stance, open grip forms and open wrist techniques. I'll do another kick serve video soon. I haven't spend much time on second serves and need to practice more to make it better.
 
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oserver

Professional
#18
It's a disappointment to see Roger exiting Wimbledon early yesterday. One may wonder how many years from now he can still stay at the top playing level? But no matter what can happens next month, next year or the year after..., he is THE modern year tennis man for sure.

Since I made this thread name "Forehand Tennis Serve" and my papers in this topic were using Roger's forehand forms and techniques as the main reference, I could not resist thinking about a "what if..." question?

So what's in my mind? I think time may be near for Roger to do some treasure hunting soon within. The treasure is his forehand more than his backhand or serve, needless to say. But how much he can still improve his forehand? So many elite players have mimic his forehand forms and techniques for so long now; it is becoming less likely that he can still keep on top of the forehand hill as aging takes its toll. So what other choices Roger has? The backhand, the serve, the serve and volley skill, improving his agility... etc.. All those choice are possibilities. What maybe his pick or his coach's pick? Or your pick?

For me, my pick can be simple: the serve. Why picking the serve is the no brainer answer?

The answer is: all other choices are not the treasure hunting tool utilize his real treasure - the forehand. Only serve is the stroke that he can utilize his forehand forms (open stance and open grip) and techniques (open wrist, passive arm) fully!

Yes, what I'm saying is that Roger might consider Forehand Tennis Serve, a stunning and wired assessment, too bold for me to say!!!

Why it makes some sense? I mentioned the word aging above, something no one can resist. The first casualty of aging is the energy level. That's why I think about the forehand serve; because it is energy saving serve that minimizes the use of small muscle groups (wrist, elbow, should, arm) but maximizes the use of bigger muscle groups down below. I'm a retirement age man, 5'7" in high and lightly weighted at 132 lbs. I can serve 800 plus balls continuously without getting tired. If I do the same using the continental grip/pin-point stance/ conventional active arm+ pronation to serve, my tennis elbow will come back to hunt me fore one or two USTA seasons as happened four-five years ago. In short, using the passive arm to serve save energy for small muscles on the arm, and if they are not tired, the big muscle group won't feel the pain, and Roger can outlasting younger guys longer.

Beside energy aspect, switching to forehand serve is simple, since the motions are more natural without artificial motion like the pronation. You don't do pronation to increase the forehand pace, do you? Just use everything forehand, Roger's forehand, all things (forms and techniques) in your bags all these twenty some years. The things you knows the best in the whole world. What a pity if someone other than you applies all your forehand things to serve you?

Further, Agassi flex his wrist somewhat in hitting forehand so his generation of players do not possess the forehand power as the current generation what follows your steps. So if you minimize the flexing of wrist and using the passive arm to serve, just like your forehand, what pace you can generate?

Now the game is the mind game first, than the physical. An open mind may make a greatest tennis genius of this generation greater.
 
#20
What is a forehand serve? Are we taking using an Eastern Forehand grip? I can serve quite well facing the net with a Continental grip and you generally do this if you use a pinpoint stance.
 
#21
Hey mate is english your first language? I'm having trouble understanding you.

As far as I'm concerned any method to consistently get the ball in on serve is a legitimate serve, so if it works for you then go for it. But I wouldn't teach it to someone, as you are using just wrist and shoulder here. It would be impossible to serve at speed like this with an older wooden racquet, or even an RF97A due to the weight. It works due to newer stiff yet light racquets that are still powerful. More over, if you try to serve faster or add any spin (side or top) you are very likely to injure yourself. So essentially the upside is consistency and simplicity of motion, but downside is you will be limited on power and spin. The serves in the videos are the best you will ever do regardless of practice, and they are really not that good. Good luck
 

oserver

Professional
#22
Are you serious?!
"]Are you serious?!" Good question!

Practically, no. First, Federer's serves are very good among elite players. Second, using his forehand forms and techniques to serve is still a earth to sky change, even through he has every tools in his bag now, and every know how knowledge at his disposal already. Third, great as he is, he listens to his coach. Forehand serve is at odds with current teaching theory and practice in every aspects, form wise and technical wise. Changing a coach's mind can be more challenging.

Logically, yes!
 
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Curious

Hall of Fame
#23
"]Are you serious?!" Good question!

Practically, no. First, Federer's serves are very good among elite players. Second, using his forehand forms and techniques to serve is still a earth to sky change, even through he has every tools in his bag now, and every know how knowledge at his disposal already. Third, great as he is, he listen to his coach. Forehand serve is at odds with current teaching theory and practice in every aspects, form wise and technical wise. Changing a coach's mind can be more challenging.

Logically, yes!
What's your tennis background to make such big claims?
 

oserver

Professional
#24
What is a forehand serve? Are we taking using an Eastern Forehand grip? I can serve quite well facing the net with a Continental grip and you generally do this if you use a pinpoint stance.
Forehand serve has three components: open stance, open grip and open wrist, or you can call it 3O serve. Current official serve has the opposite: closed stance, closed grip and closed wrist.

Eastern Forehand grip and semi-western grip are open grips. Continental plus or minus grip are closed grips.

If you can serve using Eastern Forehand grip comfortably, you can try to serve using the open wrist technique, changing the active arm to passive arm like that of forehand stroke without flexing your wrist.
 
#25
Omg...

So according to tw forum. Federer needs open fh tennis serve and a handed ground strokes on both sides. With a dash of pomo. And the mental strength of 3.5 ttps.

Fed would be unstoppable for 10 more years.
 

oserver

Professional
#26
What's your tennis background to make such big claims?
I started playing tennis seriously 11 years ago at usta 2.5 level. The motivation that time was to get my 14 year old girl into the tennis team in her upcoming high school. She made that decision, not me. We had that summer break to train her, from a total beginner to be a legitimate tennis team candidate. We did.

For the next four years, I was a volunteer coach at her team. By the end of her high school, she was ranged single #5 or #6 in the 7 high school end of year tournament, a huge achievement, considering her opponent players were much more senior in terms of playing age.

I also got certified as a uspta tennis coach that year and was ranked as a usta 4.0 player ever since.

I'm an outsider, free to do what I think and what I like. This is my only advantage if I have to find one. I'm surely a very unlike person to make such big claims.
 
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#28
Forehand serve has three components: open stance, open grip and open wrist, or you can call it 3O serve. Current official serve has the opposite: closed stance, closed grip and closed wrist.

Eastern Forehand grip and semi-western grip are open grips. Continental plus or minus grip are closed grips.

If you can serve using Eastern Forehand grip comfortably, you can try to serve using the open wrist technique, changing the active arm to passive arm like that of forehand stroke without flexing your wrist.
Wow, why? I don't care if your stance is open. Players have been using pinpoint stances for years. But you are hitting your serve with a backspin slice. First problem is that is has a low net clearance if you serve with any pace. Second, the serve slows a lot after the bounce.

I like to think outside the box also. Personally, I feel that most players should only use a Continental grip. You can serve, volley, slice, tweeners and squash shots all with the same grip.
 

oserver

Professional
#29
Wow, why? I don't care if your stance is open. Players have been using pinpoint stances for years. But you are hitting your serve with a backspin slice. First problem is that is has a low net clearance if you serve with any pace. Second, the serve slows a lot after the bounce.

I like to think outside the box also. Personally, I feel that most players should only use a Continental grip. You can serve, volley, slice, tweeners and squash shots all with the same grip.
Continental grip was used for ground strokes in the good old days of tennis for the exact reason you said - "shots all with the same grip". Think about it - if it was all good, why modern ground strokes do not use it anymore? Because it leads to more linear momentum generation strokes that are inferior to angular momentum generation strokes like the modern forehand and backhand. The continental grip and closed stance serves are inherently more linear than open grip and open stance serves. This is the reason that I'm in favor of forehand serve.
 

oserver

Professional
#32
This thread is bizarre. OP posts some vids of serves that just use a very palm down trophy pose with continental grip, then posts vid of himself hitting pancakes.
Have you seen players hitting pancakes with a passive arm (arm hardly do anything but holding the racket up to meet the falling ball) and an open wrist? I think it's too easy to use the word "pancake" as a broad brush to dismiss the open style tennis serves.
 
#33
Have you seen players hitting pancakes with a passive arm (arm hardly do anything but holding the racket up to meet the falling ball) and an open wrist? I think it's too easy to use the word "pancake" as a broad brush to dismiss the open style tennis serves.
Would "Frying Pan" massage your ego more?

I think a lot of rec players in the 3.5-4.0 world serve as you do and several of them can really hammer the ball pretty hard. But the serves are flat and can be grooved after a while pretty easily. Once you start to play folks with 4.5 serves and above, spin becomes so much more important to keeping the returner off guard. Topspin, Top-slice, kicks, Flat-slice all become a nightmare to opponents even if they are not overly powerful. And they can only be hit well with conti type grips and side on stances. Frying pan players occasionally can develop a reverse slice by swinging a bit out to in and cutting across the ball but its not as spinny as a good kick serve.
 

oserver

Professional
#34
Would "Frying Pan" massage your ego more?

I think a lot of rec players in the 3.5-4.0 world serve as you do and several of them can really hammer the ball pretty hard. But the serves are flat and can be grooved after a while pretty easily. Once you start to play folks with 4.5 serves and above, spin becomes so much more important to keeping the returner off guard. Topspin, Top-slice, kicks, Flat-slice all become a nightmare to opponents even if they are not overly powerful. And they can only be hit well with conti type grips and side on stances. Frying pan players occasionally can develop a reverse slice by swinging a bit out to in and cutting across the ball but its not as spinny as a good kick serve.
I reply to another poster about the second serve: "There is a section of the first video starting at 5:54 that shows the second serves. They are high net clearance, high bouncing serves and are still using the open stance, open grip forms and open wrist techniques." After you watch it to see if you still like to qualify my serves as the "Frying Pan" serves.

"they can only be hit well with conti type grips", this is no longer to be true any more, just like continental type grips were only good forehand grips in good old days of tennis. Now, who hit ground strokes with continental grips, except slicing shots?
 
#37
I reply to another poster about the second serve: "There is a section of the first video starting at 5:54 that shows the second serves. They are high net clearance, high bouncing serves and are still using the open stance, open grip forms and open wrist techniques." After you watch it to see if you still like to qualify my serves as the "Frying Pan" serves.

"they can only be hit well with conti type grips", this is no longer to be true any more, just like continental type grips were only good forehand grips in good old days of tennis. Now, who hit ground strokes with continental grips, except slicing shots?
Those serves arent kick serves.
 

oserver

Professional
#44
Those serves arent kick serves.
That depends on how you judge what is a kick serve, by stance, or grip, or the contact point relative to the head, or the extend of pronation, or the height of ball clearance at the net, and how high the bounce is, etc.. I use the last two.

I'm referring my earlier reply: "There is a section of the first video starting at 5:54 that shows the second serves. They are high net clearance, high bouncing serves".
 
#45
That depends on how you judge what is a kick serve, by stance, or grip, or the contact point relative to the head, or the extend of pronation, or the height of ball clearance at the net, and how high the bounce is, etc.. I use the last two.

I'm referring my earlier reply: "There is a section of the first video starting at 5:54 that shows the second serves. They are high net clearance, high bouncing serves".
Even by your own criterion those arent kick serves. Bounce height is what 3ft?

Better judge is actual topspin and or gyrospin. One could hit a flat pancake serve with high net clearance and high bounce but it wouldnt be a kick. It would be a granny serve in mixed doubles.

Kick serves kick off the court and often to the opponents bh. Its an unexpected bounce. Didnt see any of that in your vid.
 

oserver

Professional
#46
Even by your own criterion those arent kick serves. Bounce height is what 3ft?

Better judge is actual topspin and or gyrospin. One could hit a flat pancake serve with high net clearance and high bounce but it wouldnt be a kick. It would be a granny serve in mixed doubles.
Without high end equipment to judge and only use naked eyes, how can you judge "actual topspin and or gyrospin"? For my height of 5'7", there is no way to "hit a flat pancake serve with high net clearance and high bounce" and still land the ball in. If you watch the slow motion of the last serve in that video, the net clearance is well over 3ft (when ball is just crossed the center line), the bounce height is above 5ft, since the camera is a foot higher than the net. It is a one bounce serve also. Most importantly, it's a 3O serve, not a 3C serve, ie, not following any official tennis serve recommendations of "you have to do this and that, or else...".
 
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DNShade

Hall of Fame
#47
To new posters or beginning tennis players reading this thread, try oserver's techniques at your own risk. I don't recommend them, and I don't know any serious coach or player who would.
THIS.

What kind of delusional dimension is this guy inhabiting that makes him think he has the requisite skill, knowledge or experience to advise or "teach" anyone anything about tennis? He's writing articles? Seriously?

With one look it is obvious that he is just some rec player (4.0 as he himself has stated) with all the flaws and the lack of natural athletic ability one would expect at that level. And his observations about the pro players such as Viktor and Venus are just plain wrong.

The amount of hubris on display here is quite astounding. This is quite literally the adage - "Those who can't do, teach... and those who can't teach, teach gym."

As you pointed out above, the real sad part is that some aspiring new player who discovers this place might read these posts and start down a dark unrewarding path thinking this is some type of useful information. It's not.

Can't one just be happy playing the damn game and and having fun and not have to claim to be some kind of tennis guru with a breakthrough technique? Sheesh.
 

oserver

Professional
#48
THIS.

What kind of delusional dimension is this guy inhabiting that makes him think he has the requisite skill, knowledge or experience to advise or "teach" anyone anything about tennis? He's writing articles? Seriously?

With one look it is obvious that he is just some rec player (4.0 as he himself has stated) with all the flaws and the lack of natural athletic ability one would expect at that level. And his observations about the pro players such as Viktor and Venus are just plain wrong.

The amount of hubris on display here is quite astounding. This is quite literally the adage - "Those who can't do, teach... and those who can't teach, teach gym."

As you pointed out above, the real sad part is that some aspiring new player who discovers this place might read these posts and start down a dark unrewarding path thinking this is some type of useful information. It's not.

Can't one just be happy playing the damn game and and having fun and not have to claim to be some kind of tennis guru with a breakthrough technique? Sheesh.
Thanks for your long and well written post. I surely wish my English is as good as yours.

First, by having a uspta tennis coach certificate, I fulfilled the requirements to teaching tennis eleven years ago.

Second, in this area of open tennis serve, I spend more than four years in practices and researches and had written numerous articles, producing numerous videos while hitting tens of thousand balls using open stances, open grips forms and open wrist techniques. If you can, name someone who you know who did this kind of home work? You may know more famous coaches than I do, but if they never study the open tennis serve concept, never hit a ball using 3O style, they are not as qualified as me to speak on this topic.

Third, you mentioned the guru word and breakthrough too. So where are the breakthroughs? I didn't invent open stance, open grip forms, and open wrist hitting techniques. In the forehand area, Federer is the guy who maybe the most noticeable figure and contributor. I wish he is the guy to apply his forehand skills to his serves. The bottom line is this: a non-overhead shot vs. a overhead shot, but what the hell is this height difference that prevents the modern forehand advances breaching into the serve area? I did my forehand serves copying everything from Federer's forehand, no breakthrough! The name "Forehand Serve" said it all. I didn't name it "Gary's open serve". The only thing guru-wise is mainly the mindset of applying forehand stuff to the serve. That maybe a result of getting struck by a lightening but survived from a brain trauma:p.

I poked a hole in the wall between modern forehand and serve. If that is a breakthrough, it's just a little hole in a big wall;).
 
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#49
Without high end equipment to judge and only use naked eyes, how can you judge "actual topspin and or gyrospin"? For my height of 5'7", there is no way to "hit a flat pancake serve with high net clearance and high bounce" and still land the ball in. If you watch the slow motion of the last serve in that video, the net clearance is well over 3ft (when ball is just crossed the center line), the bounce height is above 5ft, since the camera is a foot higher than the net. It is a one bounce serve also. Most importantly, it's a 3O serve, not a 3C serve, ie, not following any official tennis serve recommendations of "you have to do this and that, or else...".
You can judge by several factors. Arc, movement after the bounce, sound of the racquet, and height are all factors.

No way those balls re bouncing over 5’. Get a ladder or some tall prop and make a vid. No way you can get it over 5’ with that technique unless you are hitting a lob serve- thats what I was alluding to with the pancake mixed doubles reference.

There is no noticeable kick off the court, either up or to the right. Kick serves bounce differently from what you expect. The trajectory in the air is like a slice serve but the ball grabs the court and accelerates in a different direction. Those serves you hit were basically flat serves with a touch of slice.

You also dont have the brushing sound at contact. On a kick its mostly spin and has a distinctive sound. You are hitting mostly flat but with some slice, kick serves will have a softer sound. Its not there in your vid

Another way to judge is the contact point. You simply are hitting the ball too far to the right to get anykind of top or gyro spin.

Here are some good examples of kick serves. Watch the bounce direction, bounce height, in air trajectory, contact point and listen for the sound. Your serve is nothing like the kick serves here.

Sadly I think you have lost all objectivity...

 
#50
"I spend more than four years in practices and researches and had written numerous articles, producing numerous videos while hitting tens of thousand balls using open stances, open grips forms and open wrist techniques. If you can, name someone who you know who did this kind of home work? You may know more famous coaches than I do, but if they never study the open tennis serve concept, never hit a ball using 3O style, they are not as qualified as me to speak on this topic."

LMFAO you've spent 4 years, hit 10s of thousands of balls, all to have a serve less powerful and effective than most high schoolers.


I think you're one of the few of the rare delusional, narcissistic outliers who never learned that the ball never lies.

Do you honestly think this technique is capable of the same power, variety, and precision as a correct serve?
 
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