Forgive Me, Father, For I Am a Full Fledged Sinner!

Career Titles, Slam & Overall


  • Total voters
    169

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
I just wanted to add that in this thread it works quite well, with BB, dking, you and myself among others coming up with interesting questions inspired partly by data.

One of the most surprising things for me was the big gap in drop shot win percentage between the Roger-Rafa and the Novak-Andy pairs.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
347395986_1293176591336852_5967194096402614459_n.jpg
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
Considering those very high levels my best guess is a combination of:

1) 'bad luck', partly due to draw, weather and some minor injuries
2) 'player type' he is able to dominate most but struggles against the very best/some specific players
3) 'Serve struggles' where he dips too deeply.

Time will tell. My best guess that he will win a lot of big titles. Nobody which was able to keep those kind of numbers for quite some time hasn't won a big title.
But isn't he a bit on the light side physique-wise?

I feel like that is Sinner's true one big weakness, and that's something that can't be endlessly developed without compromising other aspects (like speed / footwork etc)
 

Airspun

Professional
Considering those very high levels my best guess is a combination of:

1) 'bad luck', partly due to draw, weather and some minor injuries
2) 'player type' he is able to dominate most but struggles against the very best/some specific players
3) 'Serve struggles' where he dips too deeply.

Time will tell. My best guess that he will win a lot of big titles. Nobody which was able to keep those kind of numbers for quite some time hasn't won a big title.
My best guess is he’s a mug ☕️
 

robyrolfo

Professional
People need to relax with the negativity from today's match. Sure, he played some of the bigger points pretty poorly (especially those two break points that could have given him the 3rd set), but overall he has that bad. And we have to remember that this is against Djokovic on center court at Wimbledon.

Anyway, I'm confident he will keep maturing and improving.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
Sinner's been playing the big points poorly for a while now against players not named djokovic
Honestly had higher expectations of him. His court craft, decision making needs a lot of work. For a guy 6'2, his serve is decent but needs to be way better.
 

Pumpkin

Professional
Someone needs to start challenging Djokovic, otherwise we may as well pack it in and hand him the trophy before the tournament starts. It's not good enough.
 

bertrevert

Legend
Toronto, am I seeing here (highlights only) a new commitment to the serve, just a whole lot more body up and into the air and into the stroke therefore? Plus a hop step on more backhands to add some zip?

Not full highlights but have a look at serve/bh. Tks! The Cahill effect?

 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Any re-evalution or did this title seem inevitable and maybe even late given his level?

Nothing is inevitable in sports, but once Jannik worked out his injury woes, it was clear he had as good a chance as almost anyone. His level was great last year, beginning in the clay season and up to the USO.
 

dking68

Legend
Nothing is inevitable in sports, but once Jannik worked out his injury woes, it was clear he had as good a chance as almost anyone. His level was great last year, beginning in the clay season and up to the USO.
What do you predict for him next year?
 

dking68

Legend
Nothing yet. I expect him to reach the final of the USO. He was so close last year, and I couldn't even watch the whole match I was so disappointed for him.
He just wasn’t ready yet mentally. I think now that he has overcome the big title hurdle block, I expect him to win a crapload of tournaments from now on. Not sure if he wins this USO but I think he’s going to really fulfill his potential now, possibly even top three this year
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
He just wasn’t ready yet mentally. I think now that he has overcome the big title hurdle block, I expect him to win a crapload of tournaments from now on. Not sure if he wins this USO but I think he’s going to really fulfill his potential now, possibly even top three this year

I liked how he responded to the win yesterday. It was relief, but he didn't fling himself on the ground dramatically.
 

dking68

Legend
I liked how he responded to the win yesterday. It was relief, but he didn't fling himself on the ground dramatically.
I think he’s going to do something big at this USO, but it’s also draw dependent. I like his chances making the final if he’s in the same half as Alcaraz. But I’m not making any early predictions. If he can take out a rusty Novak in Cincinnati quarters, that should catapult him into further belief that he can actually win the title.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I think he’s going to do something big at this USO, but it’s also draw dependent. I like his chances making the final if he’s in the same half as Alcaraz. But I’m not making any early predictions. If he can take out a rusty Novak in Cincinnati quarters, that should catapult him into further belief that he can actually win the title.

Nice new avatar :)

nfuis3fmmn7i2yqwnunr.jpg
 
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Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
It was a fight to the end against Alexander Zverev, but Sonic Jannik again falls short while facing fitness issues. In fairness, however, conditions were awful by all accounts. Still, after all the struggles last year with injuries and cramping during the clay and grass season, it will be great if Jannik can look at his diet or training regimen and determine the root cause of his troubles.

Is the answer more carrots?
 

Rattie

Legend
It was a fight to the end against Alexander Zverev, but Sonic Jannik again falls short while facing fitness issues. In fairness, however, conditions were awful by all accounts. Still, after all the struggles last year with injuries and cramping during the clay and grass season, it will be great if Jannik can look at his diet or training regimen and determine the root cause of his troubles.

Is the answer more carrots?
I saw the last two sets; it was just as draining for Zverev to be fair. Brutal on any player.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I saw the last two sets; it was just as draining for Zverev to be fair. Brutal on any player.

I agree the conditions overall were brutal, but for Jannik this is becoming a trend, unfortunately. If fitness is going to be a struggle, maybe he should try to build his game around RG and Wimby. Peak during the cooler months?
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
@Rovesciarete, in post #2350, did a post on Jannik's losses last year, and I thought it might be good to create a chart for this year:


TournamentOpponentScoreRound
US OpenAlexander Zverev64 36 62 46 63Round of 16
CincinnatiDusan Lajovic46 67(4)Round of 32
WimbledonNovak Djokovic36 46 67(4)SF
HalleAlexander Bublik57 02 (RET) QF
's-HertogenboschEmil Ruusuvuori36 46 QF
Roland GarrosDaniel Altmaier76 67(7) 61 67(4) 57 Round of 64
RomeFrancisco Cerundolo76(3) 26 26 Round of 16
BarcelonaLorenzo Musetti(W/O)QF
Monte-CarloHolger Rune61 57 57 SF
MiamiDaniil Medvedev57 36 F
Indian WellsCarlos Alcaraz67(4) 36 SF
MarseilleArthur Fils(W/O)Round of 16
RotterdamDaniil Medvedev75 26 26 F
Australian OpenStefanos Tsitsipas46 46 63 64 36 Round of 16
Adelaide 1Sebastian Korda57 16 QF


Is it fair to say his loss at Roland Garros was the most disappointing, given the stage, his previous success there, and his opponent?
 
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toby55555

Hall of Fame
@Rovesciarete, in post #2350, did a post on Jannik's losses last year, and I thought it might be good to create a chart for this year:


TournamentOpponentScore
US OpenAlexander Zverev64 36 62 46 63
CincinnatiDusan Lajovic46 67(4)
WimbledonNovak Djokovic36 46 67(4)
HalleAlexander Bublik57 02 (RET)
's-HertogenboschEmil Ruusuvuori36 46
Roland GarrosDaniel Altmaier76 67(7) 61 67(4) 57
Rome
Francisco Cerundolo
76(3) 26 26
BarcelonaLorenzo Musetti(W/O)
Monte-CarloHolger Rune61 57 57
MiamiDaniil Medvedev57 36
Indian WellsCarlos Alcaraz67(4) 36
MarseilleArthur Fils(W/O)
RotterdamDaniil Medvedev75 26 26
Australian OpenStefanos Tsitsipas46 46 63 64 36
Adelaide 1Sebastian Korda57 16


Is it fair to say his loss at Roland Garros was the most disappointing, given the stage, his previous success there, and his opponent?
Round he lost in would complete the chart.
 

bertrevert

Legend
Is it fair to say his loss at Roland Garros was the most disappointing, given the stage, his previous success there, and his opponent?
All grand slams are not created equal.

Having said that I don't know official viewing figures however in my mind Wimbledon lost its pre-eminence to US Open a while ago, um...

So yes the loss to Zverev seems the wooziest. Just wasn't in the match, just too many brain cramps, just forgot his game plan as shown by reverting to old ways, just didn't do what coach ordered - Cahill, a very quiet guy, seemed to be yelling at him to calm down.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
All grand slams are not created equal.

Having said that I don't know official viewing figures however in my mind Wimbledon lost its pre-eminence to US Open a while ago, um...

So yes the loss to Zverev seems the wooziest. Just wasn't in the match, just too many brain cramps, just forgot his game plan as shown by reverting to old ways, just didn't do what coach ordered - Cahill, a very quiet guy, seemed to be yelling at him to calm down.

I don't see a huge difference between majors, except perhaps if you are a native of the host country. And for a player like Jannik who has played well on grass, clay and hard courts, where he has his best performance is not the most telling stat for the year.

The loss to Zverev was complicated by physical cramping and the conditions seemed to be brutal by all accounts. Zverev and Medvedev are tough matchups for Sinner because of their serves.
 

dking68

Legend
@Rovesciarete, in post #2350, did a post on Jannik's losses last year, and I thought it might be good to create a chart for this year:


TournamentOpponentScoreRound
US OpenAlexander Zverev64 36 62 46 63Round of 16
CincinnatiDusan Lajovic46 67(4)Round of 32
WimbledonNovak Djokovic36 46 67(4)SF
HalleAlexander Bublik57 02 (RET) QF
's-HertogenboschEmil Ruusuvuori36 46 QF
Roland GarrosDaniel Altmaier76 67(7) 61 67(4) 57 Round of 64
RomeFrancisco Cerundolo76(3) 26 26 Round of 16
BarcelonaLorenzo Musetti(W/O)QF
Monte-CarloHolger Rune61 57 57 SF
MiamiDaniil Medvedev57 36 F
Indian WellsCarlos Alcaraz67(4) 36 SF
MarseilleArthur Fils(W/O)Round of 16
RotterdamDaniil Medvedev75 26 26 F
Australian OpenStefanos Tsitsipas46 46 63 64 36 Round of 16
Adelaide 1Sebastian Korda57 16 QF


Is it fair to say his loss at Roland Garros was the most disappointing, given the stage, his previous success there, and his opponent?
Very disappointing. I also think the Ruusuvuori loss was too
 

dking68

Legend
I don't see a huge difference between majors, except perhaps if you are a native of the host country. And for a player like Jannik who has played well on grass, clay and hard courts, where he has his best performance is not the most telling stat for the year.

The loss to Zverev was complicated by physical cramping and the conditions seemed to be brutal by all accounts. Zverev and Medvedev are tough matchups for Sinner because of their serves.
Sinner is the best returner on tour. he’s ranked #2 in return stats on hard and clay. They are tough for him because they are pace absorbers
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Sinner is the best returner on tour. he’s ranked #2 in return stats on hard and clay. They are tough for him because they are pace absorbers

First serve, first serve, first serve. You aren't returning every first serve Zed or Med send your way.

Who is the #1 returner on Tour? And how did he lose 9 matches to Med and Zed? They served lights out. And in the 18 matches he won against them, he served pretty darn well himself (in addition to being the best returner).
 

dking68

Legend
First serve, first serve, first serve. You aren't returning every first serve Zed or Med send your way.

Who is the #1 returner on Tour? And how did he lose 9 matches to Med and Zed? They served lights out. And in the 18 matches he won against them, he served pretty darn well himself (in addition to being the best returner).
He’s a clean ball striker. They play until the opponent makes an error. They wait for Sinner to make an error, that’s why they’re tough for him
 

bertrevert

Legend
He’s a clean ball striker. ... They wait for Sinner to make an error, that’s why they’re tough for him
Great players have weapons: Sinner FH is...

But he has to red line for it to count against the diabolical defences of DjokoDev/MedDjoko. And errors then creep in.

So now he needs others. Don't know but his serve ceiling hasn't been reached? Would be a surprised if he can suddenly add net game, does he play much dbls? Hmm...
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Great players have weapons: Sinner FH is...

But he has to red line for it to count against the diabolical defences of DjokoDev/MedDjoko. And errors then creep in.

So now he needs others. Don't know but his serve ceiling hasn't been reached? Would be a surprised if he can suddenly add net game, does he play much dbls? Hmm...

He has chosen to add a net game. He's no natural up there, but he has improved tremendously.
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
That Altmaier loss is really his worst this year. Sinner's worst performance at RG, the weather wasn't too hot, Zverev was still not quite at his best level, and he has a winning record against Ruud. There was an opening for him.
 
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