Formula 1

speedysteve

Legend
It's like back to the sixties. Only
10 champ races then.
5 non champ though.

Be a good time to kill off the noisy polluting ICE cars at this point [emoji3]

Focus on Formula E - the way forward.
 

speedysteve

Legend
Yeah it seems 2 months after the virus peaks in a certain area is the bare minimum any major event can be held even with the most strict containment we have seen.


It's like back to the sixties. Only
10 champ races then.
5 non champ though.

Be a good time to kill off the noisy polluting ICE cars at this point [emoji3]

Focus on Formula E - the way forward.
Getting to and from GPs should also be green and the running of it.
That should keep their clever engineering minds occupied for a while during the downtime.
 

Feña14

Legend
Seb finally broken on the Ferrari wheel.
Retirement looms?

Possibly!

Lots of interest in the driver who might replace him.. Ricciardo, Sainz, Bottas etc..

Sainz would probably want the move, but McLaren seem to be on the way back and he's very much the leader there. He'll be playing second fiddle to Leclerc at Ferrari.

Ricciardo would be my pick.
 

dkmura

Rookie
Broken on the Ferrari wheel? Seb's last Ferrari contract paid him a cool $30M/year for the past three years. 'Nuff said...
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
It's like back to the sixties. Only
10 champ races then.
5 non champ though.

Be a good time to kill off the noisy polluting ICE cars at this point [emoji3]

Focus on Formula E - the way forward.
The e-cars have a larger carbon footprint than the old ICE cars.
 

Feña14

Legend
The driver merry go round is not gonna end yet.
I saw a very well done (but fake) Tweet saying Bottas would be leaving Mercedes at the end of this season. Things would really get crazy if that were to happen!

I can understand Sainz taking the opportunity to go to Ferrari, sounds like they see him as a wingman for Leclerc though. Considering how well Sainz did at McLaren where he felt at home, relished being the leader of the team etc.. You have to wonder if the grass will be greener for him.

Another thing is the Mercedes engine switch for McLaren. When Lewis retires in a couple of years, Sainz would be 27 and in his prime, with a working relationship with Mercedes. Ocon and Russell have that too, but I could definitely see him being one of the favourites to make the move.

I like the guy and hope it goes well for him at Ferrari, but i've got a sneaky feeling it might not be the smartest move long term.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
I think that Bottas deserves and shot to be a number 1 driver. I might be interesting to see him and LeClerc in identical cars.
Right now though, I think that leaving Mercedes would be a step backward for Valteri.
 

speedysteve

Legend
The e-cars have a larger carbon footprint than the old ICE cars.
Big debate about that!
The old oil creating industries are putting out disinfo everywhere, I firmly believe.
Technology will solve it.
I'll soon have enough solar panels in my farm and Tesla battery in my outbuilding to power all our cars and home.
Once enough of us have this, it's job done, game over! Bye bye grubby, noisy, air polluting, high maintenance ICE.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Big debate about that!
The old oil creating industries are putting out disinfo everywhere, I firmly believe.
Technology will solve it.
I'll soon have enough solar panels in my farm and Tesla battery in my outbuilding to power all our cars and home.
Once enough of us have this, it's job done, game over! Bye bye grubby, noisy, air polluting, high maintenance ICE.
There is no debate about this one, it has nothing to do with oil companies, unless you believe that the Chinese government is one big oil company.

The Chinese are ramping up their coal industry, also India is ramping up its coal industry to provide electricity for e-cars. That overwhelms the carbon footprint from ICE's, not even close.

The ICE now puts out miniscule amounts of pollution, and it is getting smaller all the time. New technology is in the pipeline to remove methane from oil production process....there is no contest going forward.

Furthermore, e-cars depend upon slave child labour in Africa to extract crucial battery inputs, bad public relations. But, do e-car owners care about that?

It's all about me?
 

speedysteve

Legend
There is no debate about this one, it has nothing to do with oil companies, unless you believe that the Chinese government is one big oil company.

The Chinese are ramping up their coal industry, also India is ramping up its coal industry to provide electricity for e-cars. That overwhelms the carbon footprint from ICE's, not even close.

The ICE now puts out miniscule amounts of pollution, and it is getting smaller all the time. New technology is in the pipeline to remove methane from oil production process....there is no contest going forward.

Furthermore, e-cars depend upon slave child labour in Africa to extract crucial battery inputs, bad public relations. But, do e-car owners care about that?

It's all about me?
I'm not buying what your peddling!
Our government have weighed it up.
In city air pollution is killing so many due to the ICE. They have set the policy timeline etc.
For once, it's a policy I can get behind. Although it could come sooner.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
I'm not buying what your peddling!
Our government have weighed it up.
In city air pollution is killing so many due to the ICE. They have set the policy timeline etc.
For once, it's a policy I can get behind. Although it could come sooner.
The Swedish government is your god? Really.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Nothing like tire wear problems to liven up the end of a race!
I know what we do looking at Indy tires after a race that went "normal", gotta think Pirelli is in a bit of a buzz right now looking at production data/materials/race data!
And Lewis is so lucky his tire lasted one lap longer than Bottas's, and freaking Leclerc gets a podium he really did not deserve. Smh...
 

WilPro

Semi-Pro
I am more curious if Schumacher is still alive or his family trying to hide that for whatever obscure reasons.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
I am looking forward to next week. Same track, hotter temperatures forecast, and softer compound tyres in use. Maybe a three-stop race? If only they can find a way to include some wet weather in the mix, that could be fun.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
They better get their races in while they can.... Indy car in the USA has already cancelled all the Sept. races, and the double header for next weekend at Mid Ohio just got postponed due to covid. The end of the season Florida race doesn't look to go at this point either.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
There is no debate about this one, it has nothing to do with oil companies, unless you believe that the Chinese government is one big oil company.

The Chinese are ramping up their coal industry, also India is ramping up its coal industry to provide electricity for e-cars. That overwhelms the carbon footprint from ICE's, not even close.

The ICE now puts out miniscule amounts of pollution, and it is getting smaller all the time. New technology is in the pipeline to remove methane from oil production process....there is no contest going forward.

Furthermore, e-cars depend upon slave child labour in Africa to extract crucial battery inputs, bad public relations. But, do e-car owners care about that?

It's all about me?
Dan Lobb

The greenies have their own propaganda. Just look at wind power. The blades are made from fiberglass and when they stress fracture have to be replaced. Where do those old blades go? Some to a landfill in Wyoming and are buried...fiberglass does not breakdown...or grounded up and added to concrete...cuz fiberglass isn't recyclable.

Now, the pad and towers for wind turbines are made with concrete. Concrete works by a chemical reaction producing heat. Just look to the history of the Hoover Dam, piping installed to facilitate cooling in order to keep concrete from cracking in the 1930s and still cooling today. Same with racetracks, concrete.

The whole greenie campaign is based on mis-information. So let us just turn off the lights, end all form of racing, and for that matter ban tennis worldwide. Why ban tennis? Simple!!! All those old unloved tennis racquets made from oil by products going into landfills along with the synthetic clothes, shoes, socks, hats, and old tennis racquet bags.

Therefore, instead of partially solving the problem, totally solve the problem. Turn off the lights, ban racing, ban tennis, etc.. Even more important ban propaganda!

Shalom
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Dan Lobb

The greenies have their own propaganda. Just look at wind power. The blades are made from fiberglass and when they stress fracture have to be replaced. Where do those old blades go? Some to a landfill in Wyoming and are buried...fiberglass does not breakdown...or grounded up and added to concrete...cuz fiberglass isn't recyclable.

Now, the pad and towers for wind turbines are made with concrete. Concrete works by a chemical reaction producing heat. Just look to the history of the Hoover Dam, piping installed to facilitate cooling in order to keep concrete from cracking in the 1930s and still cooling today. Same with racetracks, concrete.

The whole greenie campaign is based on mis-information. So let us just turn off the lights, end all form of racing, and for that matter ban tennis worldwide. Why ban tennis? Simple!!! All those old unloved tennis racquets made from oil by products going into landfills along with the synthetic clothes, shoes, socks, hats, and old tennis racquet bags.

Therefore, instead of partially solving the problem, totally solve the problem. Turn off the lights, ban racing, ban tennis, etc.. Even more important ban propaganda!

Shalom
The ultimate step...ban people.

Yes, I am just waiting for that step to emerge from the intellectual slime of green philosophy.

Come to think of it, the greens are already calling for drastic population controls to diminish the total human populations.

Can't beat these guys, they jump ahead to the ghastly conclusion.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You've said nothing more than that humans create waste when they produce energy. The real question is to determine what creates the least amount and how to deal with it. This you don't address.

Dan Lobb

The greenies have their own propaganda. Just look at wind power. The blades are made from fiberglass and when they stress fracture have to be replaced. Where do those old blades go? Some to a landfill in Wyoming and are buried...fiberglass does not breakdown...or grounded up and added to concrete...cuz fiberglass isn't recyclable.

Now, the pad and towers for wind turbines are made with concrete. Concrete works by a chemical reaction producing heat. Just look to the history of the Hoover Dam, piping installed to facilitate cooling in order to keep concrete from cracking in the 1930s and still cooling today. Same with racetracks, concrete.

The whole greenie campaign is based on mis-information. So let us just turn off the lights, end all form of racing, and for that matter ban tennis worldwide. Why ban tennis? Simple!!! All those old unloved tennis racquets made from oil by products going into landfills along with the synthetic clothes, shoes, socks, hats, and old tennis racquet bags.

Therefore, instead of partially solving the problem, totally solve the problem. Turn off the lights, ban racing, ban tennis, etc.. Even more important ban propaganda!

Shalom
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
People are voluntarily choosing 'to diminish total human populations', and I don't know anyone who wants to 'ban people', so this is nothing more than rhetorical exaggeration.

The ultimate step...ban people.

Yes, I am just waiting for that step to emerge from the intellectual slime of green philosophy.

Come to think of it, the greens are already calling for drastic population controls to diminish the total human populations.

Can't beat these guys, they jump ahead to the ghastly conclusion.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
The ultimate step...ban people.

Yes, I am just waiting for that step to emerge from the intellectual slime of green philosophy.

Come to think of it, the greens are already calling for drastic population controls to diminish the total human populations.

Can't beat these guys, they jump ahead to the ghastly conclusion.
Dan Lobb

You seem to forget, yes ban people, however, those calling for people to be banned, expect that they being enlightened should survive!

Reminds me of the movie Matrix, humans are a virus and destory, etc.. Seems to me so called enlightened humans would try to find a way to improve using oil without problems being created...find solutions to problems versus banning and creating new problems. However, most can not even figure out how to hit an ATP forehand, why even listen to them. They are just mostly arm chair quarterback types, can't play the game, but can tell others how the game should be played.

Shalom
 
People are voluntarily choosing 'to diminish total human populations', and I don't know anyone who wants to 'ban people', so this is nothing more than rhetorical exaggeration.
Bartellini you little weenie, you provincial drunk in a perpetual funk, doesn't China's 'One Child Policy' ring a bell? You know the same China CP that you lauded for their 'transparency' during the early of the Covid-19 virus?....when you pontificated how it was a "non-event?" Talk about a self-absorbed dingbat....
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
We were talking about what greenies want, Sean, not what the reds under your (nursing home) bed want.

Bartellini you little weenie, you provincial drunk in a perpetual funk, doesn't China's 'One Child Policy' ring a bell? You know the same China CP that you lauded for their 'transparency' during the early of the Covid-19 virus?....when you pontificated how it was a "non-event?" Talk about a self-absorbed dingbat....
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
Nothing like tire wear problems to liven up the end of a race!
I know what we do looking at Indy tires after a race that went "normal", gotta think Pirelli is in a bit of a buzz right now looking at production data/materials/race data!
And Lewis is so lucky his tire lasted one lap longer than Bottas's, and freaking Leclerc gets a podium he really did not deserve. Smh...
That wasn’t lucky. Lewis tyres were always going to last longer as Bottas was pushing harder all race. He was just lucky that they de laminated where they did, and not earlier. Ricciardo had a great race. And yeah supposedly softer compounds are we’re supposed to be used next week. Pair that with the hotter temperatures forecast, and it’s could be a tasty race
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
That wasn’t lucky. Lewis tyres were always going to last longer as Bottas was pushing harder all race. He was just lucky that they de laminated where they did, and not earlier. Ricciardo had a great race. And yeah supposedly softer compounds are we’re supposed to be used next week. Pair that with the hotter temperatures forecast, and it’s could be a tasty race
Saying Lewis was lucky his tire didn't fail one lap earlier (or two or three) is as good an excuse as any.

We don't know the differences in race set-up on any of the teams...camber, tire pressure, etc. Each team/driver has a range of set-ups, both team cars are not set-up identical. Maybe Lewis had less camber or slightly higher psi.

Both drivers do not drive the same. Later braking, hitting curbs, etc. And both were setting fastest lap times, so to say Bottas was pushing harder is not true either.

Possible debris on the track. Was it at fault? Who had more debris damage?

And the tires themselves. They are NOT identical. If they are hand built like ours, there are subtle differences builder to builder. There might even be subtle material differences if a given race count was built all in one run, or broken in to 2 or 3 runs because of changes in the build schedule or late add ons to the build total.

The tires are assigned in random sets, so yeah, with all that and probably more....Lewis was lucky his tire didn't fail any earlier, because it very well could've...not to mention he likely woulda got caught if Max hadn't pitted to go for fastest lap.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
Saying Lewis was lucky his tire didn't fail one lap earlier (or two or three) is as good an excuse as any.

We don't know the differences in race set-up on any of the teams...camber, tire pressure, etc. Each team/driver has a range of set-ups, both team cars are not set-up identical. Maybe Lewis had less camber or slightly higher psi.

Both drivers do not drive the same. Later braking, hitting curbs, etc. And both were setting fastest lap times, so to say Bottas was pushing harder is not true either.

Possible debris on the track. Was it at fault? Who had more debris damage?

And the tires themselves. They are NOT identical. If they are hand built like ours, there are subtle differences builder to builder. There might even be subtle material differences if a given race count was built all in one run, or broken in to 2 or 3 runs because of changes in the build schedule or late add ons to the build total.

The tires are assigned in random sets, so yeah, with all that and probably more....Lewis was lucky his tire didn't fail any earlier, because it very well could've...not to mention he likely woulda got caught if Max hadn't pitted to go for fastest lap.
Fair points but could also work the other way, which is why I’m assuming everything was identical and just looking at stuff we can actually know for sure, which is that Bottas was pushing harder than Lewis to account for the dirty air.
Debris was defo not at fault for this. These were delaminations. Too much running and the tyres simple just disintegrated, whereas a puncture would be more sudden. Just look at Hamilton’s tyre. The sides have simple come off.
youre right in saying that he was lucky max pitted though. But hindsight is 20/20. Looking forward to next weekend very much though. Higher temps.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
I am thinking that the next competitive, interesting step would be to have a race on really hard tyres. With the normal "hard" tyre being the softest available. They would still have to use two different compounds during the race.
This might put more of the car performance in the hands of the drivers. It could be interesting.
 

speedysteve

Legend
I am thinking that the next competitive, interesting step would be to have a race on really hard tyres. With the normal "hard" tyre being the softest available. They would still have to use two different compounds during the race.
This might put more of the car performance in the hands of the drivers. It could be interesting.
That could favour high down force cars - Merc.. back to square one.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Now, just how far can Lewis take the records. Will he surpass 7 WDCs? How many Grands Prix will he win? Who will be the one to eventually take his crown?


Also, I hope you guys have been checking out the new SKY Race To Perfection series. This kind of content is rare, for sure.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
Bravo to Lewis. Even in the best equipment, his driving has matured over the years. He is great at managing tires, using great strategy, and avoiding collisions and contact with other drivers, except for Albon, and he is the best in wet conditions.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Albon is incident prone anyway, which has become painfully obvious. It's a joke that Lewis picked up 4 combined penalty points on his Super License for two incidents with Albon which were more or less racing incidents.

Also, Albon's performance in the Eifel GP was absolutely dire. It was embarrassing. He must be on his last chances now because there is no way RBR are going to accept this level of performance. Albon was driving a car close to being on par with Mercedes on the weekend and destroyed his own race before being brought in to retire the car after, supposedly, some gravel had pierced the radiator...

RBR should look outside of their program IMO and pick up either Perez or Hulkenberg.
 

Feña14

Legend
Albon is incident prone anyway, which has become painfully obvious. It's a joke that Lewis picked up 4 combined penalty points on his Super License for two incidents with Albon which were more or less racing incidents.

Also, Albon's performance in the Eifel GP was absolutely dire. It was embarrassing. He must be on his last chances now because there is no way RBR are going to accept this level of performance. Albon was driving a car close to being on par with Mercedes on the weekend and destroyed his own race before being brought in to retire the car after, supposedly, some gravel had pierced the radiator...

RBR should look outside of their program IMO and pick up either Perez or Hulkenberg.
I've never understood the talk of going back to Gasly. Verstappen aside, the Red Bull sounds like a hard car to drive. The high rake concept, very on the nose, small working window, susceptible to wind etc.. Gasly would struggle every bit as much as he did last time imo.

Reminds me a bit of the Repsol Honda in MotoGP, Marquez can muscle the beast and get the maximum out of it, just like Verstappen can. Mortals like Albon and Gasly? It's not going to happen.

Perez would be my choice, a driver who can play the Pedrosa role in the team is what Red Bull need, I think.
 

Feña14

Legend
Lewis Hamilton 7 titles!
Amazing achievement.
More to come?
8 is pretty much guaranteed next year. Who knows after that, new regulations etc..

Thought it was fitting for him to win it like that today. The conditions took the car out of it - power and aero were useless on that track in the wet.. just a pure test of driving skill, instinct, calling his own strategy from the car (knew slicks were never an option, too risky to pit with a wet pit lane etc..), coming through the field, incredible tyre management (50 laps on inters!?).

The Sky pundits were saying Max would win and put on a "masterclass" in the wet, I lost track of the number of errors he made (poor tyre management, spun twice, off the track every other lap). Hamilton on the other hand? Incredible.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
I'm curious. In Schumacher era, what percent of the outcome was decided by the driver, what percent by the car/team? What about today?
 

Feña14

Legend
I'm curious. In Schumacher era, what percent of the outcome was decided by the driver, what percent by the car/team? What about today?
I think it moved more toward the car quite awhile ago, both drivers generally had that on their side.

Ferrari had the best car by a distance for Schumachers 5 from 2000-04. It was very even between them and McLaren in 98 and 99, when Hakkinen got the better of him. Hamilton has had the best car for pretty much all of his Mercedes years, with the exception of 2018 imo. Ferrari had the better car, but Hamilton got the better of Vettel that year. Lewis' first two seasons at McLaren (almost won the first year, did win the second), Ferrari won the constructors both years and was generally the better car. Hamilton's win in 2019 is hard to judge, Ferrari had by far the quickest car that season (later found out to be "illegal"). Ferrari had 6 poles in a row during the meat of the season but Hamilton managed to win two of those races (Russia and Mexico) through pure driving ability, no mistakes, tyre preservation etc.. which was the difference in the end. 2020 Mercedes were head and shoulders above the rest, Hamilton had pretty much won it after 4 rounds of the slightly shortened season.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
@Feña14
Awesome recap and even better memory!
Enjoyed LH’s fight to the top today - really showed how much better a driver he is than the young Max. Hope he stays for another season to fight for another championship. Also, kinda cool to see Perez made it to no.2, ahead of Vettle at no.3. Lol
 

Feña14

Legend
@Feña14
Awesome recap and even better memory!
Enjoyed LH’s fight to the top today - really showed how much better a driver he is than the young Max. Hope he stays for another season to fight for another championship. Also, kinda cool to see Perez made it to no.2, ahead of Vettle at no.3. Lol
If only random sports trivia paid the bills :D

Yes, it was a really fun race all round. I'm guessing it's a taste of what we will see when the new regulations kick in after next season, or what they're hoping to achieve, at least... i.e less aero and downforce, should be easier to follow, the drivers can make a bigger difference etc..

I was pleased for Perez too, i'm sure it's not a coincidence that the two masters of using/preserving their tyres finished 1-2. All the other drivers seemed to be coming on the radio after 5 laps saying their tyres were overheating or gone! Perez and Hamilton managed 48 and 50 laps on them, I believe. Hopefully Perez gets the Red Bull drive alongside Max next season, it'll be interesting to see what a top, experienced driver can do in that car. It looks like a nightmare to drive, from a distance. So front end dominant and the high rake makes it look like a sail at the rear. It's no surprise that Gasly and Albon both struggled.
 
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bigserving

Hall of Fame
Great to see Lewis win the tying title with a drive like that in conditions like that. The track had a huge say in the race and the wet conditions made a big contribution of its own.

That was a fun race to watch. The outcome was never a foregone conclusion. Racing Point had the best cars in the wettest conditions as Lance, Frickin, Stroll was dominant early. But as the track dried, the momentum changed to others cars. Checko kept his car near the front and it would be a crime against racing fans if he is not on the grid next year.

At the end, I was waiting for the Merc's inter tyres to explode and second! Great fun.
 
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