Formula 1

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
I think it moved more toward the car quite awhile ago, both drivers generally had that on their side.

Ferrari had the best car by a distance for Schumachers 5 from 2000-04. It was very even between them and McLaren in 98 and 99, when Hakkinen got the better of him. Hamilton has had the best car for pretty much all of his Mercedes years, with the exception of 2018 imo. Ferrari had the better car, but Hamilton got the better of Vettel that year. Lewis' first two seasons at McLaren (almost won the first year, did win the second), Ferrari won the constructors both years and was generally the better car. Hamilton's win in 2019 is hard to judge, Ferrari had by far the quickest car that season (later found out to be "illegal"). Ferrari had 6 poles in a row during the meat of the season but Hamilton managed to win two of those races (Russia and Mexico) through pure driving ability, no mistakes, tyre preservation etc.. which was the difference in the end. 2020 Mercedes were head and shoulders above the rest, Hamilton had pretty much won it after 4 rounds of the slightly shortened season.
Thank you for the summary. Guess Senna era must be more driver-dependent.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
I think it moved more toward the car quite awhile ago, both drivers generally had that on their side.

Ferrari had the best car by a distance for Schumachers 5 from 2000-04. It was very even between them and McLaren in 98 and 99, when Hakkinen got the better of him. Hamilton has had the best car for pretty much all of his Mercedes years, with the exception of 2018 imo. Ferrari had the better car, but Hamilton got the better of Vettel that year. Lewis' first two seasons at McLaren (almost won the first year, did win the second), Ferrari won the constructors both years and was generally the better car. Hamilton's win in 2019 is hard to judge, Ferrari had by far the quickest car that season (later found out to be "illegal"). Ferrari had 6 poles in a row during the meat of the season but Hamilton managed to win two of those races (Russia and Mexico) through pure driving ability, no mistakes, tyre preservation etc.. which was the difference in the end. 2020 Mercedes were head and shoulders above the rest, Hamilton had pretty much won it after 4 rounds of the slightly shortened season.
2000 and 2003 are very questionable.

Mercedes were still comfortably the best in 2019. Some argue for Ferrari 2017 but I think Mercedes had the edge, but that it was close enough that it was perfectly feasible for Vettel to win the WDC.

For anyone wondering what difference a driver can make, look no further than Turkey 2020. Look at Hamilton's masterclass in tyre management and adaptation, and compare it to his teammate Bottas who is deserving of a new moniker: The Washing Machine.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
2000 and 2003 are very questionable.

Mercedes were still comfortably the best in 2019. Some argue for Ferrari 2017 but I think Mercedes had the edge, but that it was close enough that it was perfectly feasible for Vettel to win the WDC.

For anyone wondering what difference a driver can make, look no further than Turkey 2020. Look at Hamilton's masterclass in tyre management and adaptation, and compare it to his teammate Bottas who is deserving of a new moniker: The Washing Machine.
Honorary sBinalla title
 

Feña14

Legend
2000 and 2003 are very questionable.

Mercedes were still comfortably the best in 2019. Some argue for Ferrari 2017 but I think Mercedes had the edge, but that it was close enough that it was perfectly feasible for Vettel to win the WDC.

For anyone wondering what difference a driver can make, look no further than Turkey 2020. Look at Hamilton's masterclass in tyre management and adaptation, and compare it to his teammate Bottas who is deserving of a new moniker: The Washing Machine.
I was surprised about Bottas. He's known for being great on a green track that hasn't been rubbered in, has experience on driving in ice like conditions, no grip etc..

Every time the camera was on him he was spinning! Very strange.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
That looked like an old-school crash, explosion, and fire when at least one driver not making it through. Thank god that he was able to "walk" away.


Without the halo, he very likely would have been decapitated.
 
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Peters

Professional
Luckily he wasn't knocked unconscious, and that he wasn't rammed halfway through the barrier instead of clean through, which might have prevented him getting out anyway.

Very lucky all round!
 
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speedysteve

Legend
I was always a big advocate of Halo.
If you've ever raced open wheel and seen wheels come off then one errant one can kill you - John Surtees son being a point in case in a F3 race.
Great to see it saving from certain death.
Nice to see it trickeling down the formulas.

Also saw that Lewis Hamilton tested positive for CV-19, will miss next race.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
Now that Romain is ok, I so very much want to see the crash from his onboard camera. Does that make me a monster?

Has anybody heard who is taking Lewis' seat this weekend?
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
That was a fun race. It had a little of bit of everything. Gotta feel bad for George Russell and for Bottas. Great for Checko and Racing Point. An 87 lap at such a short track would be loads of fun to attend and watch. Maybe more like those in the future?!
 

dkmura

Rookie
The Bahrain race had drama from green to checkered, and for Perez to come back from being spun and starting again in 18th place was scintillating! Good for Perez and Racing Point in one way, but the fact that he held a contract for 2021 and was dropped anyway must be bittersweet. He's now a proven winner and deserves a seat, but his only hope is RBR.
 

Feña14

Legend
That was a fun race. It had a little of bit of everything. Gotta feel bad for George Russell and for Bottas. Great for Checko and Racing Point. An 87 lap at such a short track would be loads of fun to attend and watch. Maybe more like those in the future?!
Hopefully! I was told to expect a boring oval track, but the technical section in the middle looked quite tricky with the lower downforce teams opted for to take advantage of the straights. I saw a few cars drifting through that section during qualifying, old school!

The shorter track also made communication tricky, drivers were being told too late to come in to the pits, it also contributed to the Mercedes debacle, a few were caught out with safety cars ending sooner than anticipated etc..

Hopefully places looking to build new tracks opt for something similar. It's a nice point of difference and can be done in a way that requires less space.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Hopefully! I was told to expect a boring oval track, but the technical section in the middle looked quite tricky with the lower downforce teams opted for to take advantage of the straights. I saw a few cars drifting through that section during qualifying, old school!

The shorter track also made communication tricky, drivers were being told too late to come in to the pits, it also contributed to the Mercedes debacle, a few were caught out with safety cars ending sooner than anticipated etc..

Hopefully places looking to build new tracks opt for something similar. It's a nice point of difference and can be done in a way that requires less space.
I also wish there was a very long track - just one of them. Not really practical though.

I'd like to see about 3 tracks that have average lap time of ~1 minute or less. And I like the mix of smooth and rough surfaces to challenge the drivers with different levels of grip.

Anyway, it's all about filling the coffers and the calendar for next year is close to the status quo, so I'm not optimistic overall.


***

Russell did me proud in Sakhir. Always felt he's at least Leclerc level and should be considered as one of the top three talents of his generation along with also Verstappen. Would like to see him get another run in Abu Dhabi. As for Perez, he's been lights out now for the last 7 races, arguably showing the best form of all drivers - at least in league with Hamilton and Verstappen in my estimation. From last to first - what a win!


(To any snooker fans, what an absolute sickener for Trump against Robertson in the UK Champs Finals. He had two great shots at the win.)
 

Feña14

Legend
I also wish there was a very long track - just one of them. Not really practical though.

I'd like to see about 3 tracks that have average lap time of ~1 minute or less. And I like the mix of smooth and rough surfaces to challenge the drivers with different levels of grip.

Anyway, it's all about filling the coffers and the calendar for next year is close to the status quo, so I'm not optimistic overall.


***

Russell did me proud in Sakhir. Always felt he's at least Leclerc level and should be considered as one of the top three talents of his generation along with also Verstappen. Would like to see him get another run in Abu Dhabi. As for Perez, he's been lights out now for the last 7 races, arguably showing the best form of all drivers - at least in league with Hamilton and Verstappen in my estimation. From last to first - what a win!


(To any snooker fans, what an absolute sickener for Trump against Robertson in the UK Champs Finals. He had two great shots at the win.)
Spa is fairly long at around 7km, but I take your point. I think it used to be double that in the old days, although it was mostly all straights. I'd definitely be up for some insanely long tracks!

Hopefully all the different tracks this year will give them something to think about moving forward, the undulating rollercoasters at Mugello and Portimao, very short track in Bahrain. Shame Turkey didn't get to show off it's full potential. Both fans and drivers have loved the tracks this year, but as you say, it comes down to money at the end of the day.

Maybe Bahrain could host two races? The first one early in the year, as they usually do. Maybe they could have another at the end of the season like this year on the shorter track? It's close to Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia, so that could be an interesting middle east triple header to end seasons moving forward. There's certainly not a shortage of money in that part of the world, which would help. Bahrain is really well attended usually too, so the fan demand should be there for 2 races. Next season is scheduled to end Brazil (subject to a contract), Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi. Maybe they'd go with a second Bahrain race if Brazil can't get a deal done.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
It was an amazing race, considering the new/shorter circuit.
definitely felt bad for Russell, but sorry for Bottas. I mean this dude has been with Mercedes for a few seasons now and can’t even match the race pace of a “new comer”.
the Mercedes board now must be thinking how they are going to play with the 21 & 22 seasons. You have a 7 world champion, a less than decent 2nd driver and an awesome youngster.... tough choice but it is a nice problem to have me thinks.
finally, huge huge congrats to Checko. What an amazing come back and a huge slap in Lawerance Stroll’s face. Well done to the man after 190 odd races.
btw - who else thinks Lance Stroll has a very annoying voice? Lol
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Bottas got screwed by the team double stacking. Had nothing to do with matching the pace with the newcomer.

He had to wait behind Russell because they put Bottas's tires on Russell's car. Then when the pit cleared, Bottas was further delayed because they no longer had his tires to mount, so they had to put the same tires he came in on, back on again.
Then, he finished the race with the same worn hards he was supposed to get changed.

None of that is Bottas's fault. Toto owned the mistake fully...or at least owned the pit crew communication breakdown.

They are not blaming Bottas. He is still a top 4 drivers, driving the best car. Him and Lewis are fine.

Good show by Russell, tough break, but he is not supplanting Bottas anytime soon.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but let’s rewind from the lap 1 to the double stacking incident. There was not way Bottas was able to match the pace of the newcomer.
The unfortunate double stacking incident favoured no one in the Mercedes team, really.
 

speedysteve

Legend
For me Bottas just proved yet again he's the perfect no.2 driver :D
Russel was in a cockpit / car not designed for him, sitting too high, no doubt uncomfortable. Race cars are hostile environments at the best of times!
He parachutes in and pretty much monsters Bottas all weekend.
If I was Lewis I be working too keep Bottas as my team mate for the remainder of my career;)
 
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Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
If that is the case with Mercedes cars...... Then what happened to Bottas? Lol
The team didn't want him to surpass Lewis, so they staged the pit screw up last week to force Bottas to finish the race on worn hards. It worked perfectly. He got "Russelled".
Lewis is back, so the planets are back in alignment.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
Perez to Red Bull should make for an interesting 2021. There should be more competition in the front immediately for the Mercedes. Also, with Vettel at Racing Point or whatever it is going to be called next year, we should get a better idea of his real skill and hopefully spend some time fighting in the front.
 
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esm

Hall of Fame
Perez to Red Bull should make for an interesting 2021. There should be more competition in the front immediately for the Mercedes. Also, with Vettel at Racing Point or whatever it is going to be called next year, we should get a better idea of his real skill and hopefully spend some time fighting in the front.
Very very pleased to see Checo got in RB - but the big Q is if he will get an identical car as MV for a fairer to tile fight.
would love to see Checo passes SV in his old RP/Aston Martin car. Lol
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
A thought came to mind. A great transitional project for Lewis would be to co-star in the next Fast and Furious film. It would be perfect. He might even play himself gone bad as the next badass driver in the franchise. Driving a Mercedes, of course.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
A thought came to mind. A great transitional project for Lewis would be to co-star in the next Fast and Furious film. It would be perfect. He might even play himself gone bad as the next badass driver in the franchise. Driving a Mercedes, of course.
Lol. Good idea. Maybe he can be the long lost cousin from the deep end of the UK of Dominick....
 

dkmura

Rookie
Hah- Lewis Hamilton as a co-star in the F&F franchise? They simply don't have enough money to pay him. More importantly, the F&F world view has always dealt in fantasy, and any kind of appreciation for Hamilton's real world skills would get lost in some Hollywood screenplay.
 

speedysteve

Legend
Mercedes was aiming to be carbon neutral by the end of this year.
Wonder how that's going?
Been planting lots and installing solar / heat pumps everywhere I guess.
The 2020 calendar would have had a much lower carbon footprint than 2019.

Would have to be an electric F&F then
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
And this is why F1 is the best sport in the world.

WHAT A RACE!!!!!!!!!!!!11

That's right MAX. If you want this title you're gonna have to RIP IT AWAY from the CHAMP.



Two class acts battling it out for the win in a CLASSIC BAHRAIN GP.

Best race here since the "Duel in the Desert" 2014, Hamilton and Rosberg.


P1 HAM
P2 VER
P3 BOT
 

Hamnavoe

Hall of Fame
It's a great irony that what may have lost Red Bull that race was Perez's car stopping on track and triggering the second formation lap, thus giving Max one less lap to attack and try to make the pass.

Great drive from Lewis today, I'd give him driver in the day with Norris closely behind. It was a strong comeback drive by Perez, and I enjoyed some of the moves that Tsunoda made on his debut, particularly a dive he made into Turn 10 on Vettel or Raikkonen, I don't remember off the top of my head.

Is there any possibility that Red Bull could protest the victory on the grounds that Hamilton spent the first half of the race abusing track limits on the exit of Turn 4? If he wasn't gaining an advantage, he wouldn't have been doing it, after all. Could be an interesting one to watch out for.
 

bigserving

Hall of Fame
That was a fun race to watch. That had to be a very difficult drive by both Max and Lewis. Lewis on old tires for so long, and Max being careful to not use up his tires catching Lewis.

I am hoping that every race goes somewhat that way the whole season. Red Bull has surpassed Mercedes at this point, but it is a long season. Also hoping that there is that kind of competition in the middle and the back of the pack.

I think that Max's tires were going for the last two or three laps. I don't think he could have overtaken in a turn with those tires.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
That was a fun race to watch. That had to be a very difficult drive by both Max and Lewis. Lewis on old tires for so long, and Max being careful to not use up his tires catching Lewis.

I am hoping that every race goes somewhat that way the whole season. Red Bull has surpassed Mercedes at this point, but it is a long season. Also hoping that there is that kind of competition in the middle and the back of the pack.

I think that Max's tires were going for the last two or three laps. I don't think he could have overtaken in a turn with those tires.

The midfield is packed. AT underperformed today (bad starting grid position for Tsunoda and Gasly ended his own race more or less) but they have a great car. Ferrari have rebounded somewhat and McLaren look very handy indeed. I think behind them is AM and Alpine, but they'll still be competitive with them in the midfield in many races.

I do think RBR are ahead of Merc as things stand, but that Merc have more headroom to get on top of their testing issues and extract potential out of their car. RBR hit the ground running and Merc did not, yet Merc stole this race.


Tremendous effort by both Hamilton and Verstappen, but Verstappen should have won this race. RBR perhaps paying for the qualifying gamble with Perez, and not having a second car to strategise with during the race.

I'm very sure we're gonna see a season-long battle for the WDC between HAM and VER and that the midfield is going to be absolute fireworks. The Honda power unit is now a true match for the Mercedes PU.




Also want to mention Tsunoda picking up points for AT today. Poor start but then he made a great race of it and had an impressive debut. Kudos!

And well played by Norris, Leclerc and Perez.
 

Feña14

Legend
It's a great irony that what may have lost Red Bull that race was Perez's car stopping on track and triggering the second formation lap, thus giving Max one less lap to attack and try to make the pass.

Great drive from Lewis today, I'd give him driver in the day with Norris closely behind. It was a strong comeback drive by Perez, and I enjoyed some of the moves that Tsunoda made on his debut, particularly a dive he made into Turn 10 on Vettel or Raikkonen, I don't remember off the top of my head.

Is there any possibility that Red Bull could protest the victory on the grounds that Hamilton spent the first half of the race abusing track limits on the exit of Turn 4? If he wasn't gaining an advantage, he wouldn't have been doing it, after all. Could be an interesting one to watch out for.
Agree on Hamilton or Norris being driver of the day. I didn't think Hamilton stood a chance but when he came on the radio and said "leave it to me" I thought there might be an outside chance. Seriously impressive how he managed to pull it off though.

Norris was side by side with Ricciardo for half of the first lap, got past then took Leclerc and nobody could get close to him after that. I think he was punished for being so in control, it went under the radar a bit.

The battle for 5th place in the Championship is going to be a fun one this year I think. Hamilton and Verstappen looks like going all the way, but top driver outside of Mercedes/Red Bull is going to be hard fought too, i'd imagine.
 

dkmura

Rookie
F1 needed a race like this to open the 2021 season. If it were another Merc 1-2, this championship might have lost relevancy before the season got much of a start. I also wonder what might have happened if Bottas had a little more luck with his tire change.
 

Hamnavoe

Hall of Fame
Agree on Hamilton or Norris being driver of the day. I didn't think Hamilton stood a chance but when he came on the radio and said "leave it to me" I thought there might be an outside chance. Seriously impressive how he managed to pull it off though.

Norris was side by side with Ricciardo for half of the first lap, got past then took Leclerc and nobody could get close to him after that. I think he was punished for being so in control, it went under the radar a bit.

The battle for 5th place in the Championship is going to be a fun one this year I think. Hamilton and Verstappen looks like going all the way, but top driver outside of Mercedes/Red Bull is going to be hard fought too, i'd imagine.
Norris' performance today shows he is determined not to make the same mistakes as Ocon made last year vs Ricciardo. Last year Esteban was slow out of the blocks and though he made up a bit of time before the end of the season, he hardly laid a glove on Ricciardo, and was constantly under the radar, even when he made the podium in Sakhir after a strong drive. Lando today showed he's not going to let that happen - elbows out immediately, not afraid to battle his teammate, and he held position and then drove a super solid race to bring home a great chunk of points. I've seen many people speculate that this year's McLaren dynamic will be similar to last year's Renault one, but if today is anything to go by it should be a good fight.

The championship battle is definitely looking promising. Based on this weekend it looks to me like Red Bull have a clear aerodynamic advantage but I still think Merc have an edge on the power (as evidenced in the Hamilton vs Verstappen battle by Max taking out huge chunks of time in Sector 2 which Lewis while Lewis was able to pull away a bit on the long straights of Sector 3). The target for RB over the coming races has to be getting Perez in a position where he's on the front two rows so they can try and dictate the strategy - they've got the car advantage early on, so adding a strategic advantage will be imperative if they're to mount a season-long title challenge against the Mercedes hegemony.
 
A wonderful start to the season. Max nearly pulled it off. Perez came up with his usual come-from-behind heroics...no wonder he was too 'extreme' for Aston Martin. ;) Good to see McLaren and Ferrari set a good pace as well. This promises to be a very competitive season, not just between Merc and Redbull but also with McLaren/Ferrari not being left too far behind. Brilliant debut from Tsunoda also. First F1 race, gets a 10th with an incredible bunch of overtakes and still doesn't sound satisfied. This guy is going to go places.
 
The midfield is packed. AT underperformed today (bad starting grid position for Tsunoda and Gasly ended his own race more or less) but they have a great car. Ferrari have rebounded somewhat and McLaren look very handy indeed. I think behind them is AM and Alpine, but they'll still be competitive with them in the midfield in many races.

I do think RBR are ahead of Merc as things stand, but that Merc have more headroom to get on top of their testing issues and extract potential out of their car. RBR hit the ground running and Merc did not, yet Merc stole this race.


Tremendous effort by both Hamilton and Verstappen, but Verstappen should have won this race. RBR perhaps paying for the qualifying gamble with Perez, and not having a second car to strategise with during the race.

I'm very sure we're gonna see a season-long battle for the WDC between HAM and VER and that the midfield is going to be absolute fireworks. The Honda power unit is now a true match for the Mercedes PU.




Also want to mention Tsunoda picking up points for AT today. Poor start but then he made a great race of it and had an impressive debut. Kudos!

And well played by Norris, Leclerc and Perez.
AM and Alpine both need to eat some humble pie. AM made ridiculous comments about Perez's driving style to shrug off guilt over dumping him late in the season and nearly costing a good driver a ride. Perez already looks like the best no.2 in a Redbull since Ricciardo. Alpine's Cyril said Ricciardo was making a big mistake moving to McLaren. Doesn't look like it, Cyril. Looks like Renault continues to be terribly unreliable, no doubt a big reason behind Ricciardo's move.
 
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