French Open will decide GOAT
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Benjamin Rio
Professional
@Sport he's absolutely right. At 26-27 years old your are in your prime and peak.
Nadal lost in the first round in his absolute peak year in the most prestigious tournament.
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Indigo
Professional
If Novak wins, he is the GOAT in terms of tennis achievements, or better to say the BOAT, the Best of All Time. He would have double career grand slam, double non calendar grand slam, all masters, probably the most number of masters in the end, leading H2H with Fed and Rafa, etc. Number of GS is irrelevant in this case. Novak is the BOAT. Period. If Rafa wins he is still in the race with 18 GS since due to less diverse achievements than Novak he can't be considered the GOAT or BOAT. At the moment, Fed is really GOAT since GOAT is something of a legend and that does not only include success at tournaments, in which Fed leads, that's also aura or halo the person carries. Some may say Fed is also pushed by media, etc. - yes, but he has all the right for that. So, it will be really hard to replace Fed as the GOAT as that is the synonym for tennis. But both Novak and Rafa have the chance to be BOATs in case if they win RG 2019 (Novak) or have more than 20 GSs (Rafa).
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal is the BOAT: Nadal leads the H2H in Grand Slams over Federer and Djokovic. Nadal leads the H2H in Grand Slams 9-3 over Federer (including 4-3 outside clay) and 9-5 over Djokovic (including 2-1 at the US Open). That is, Nadal has won 75% of his Grand Slam matches against Federer, and 60% of his Grand Slam matches against Djokovic. That's brutal domination.
Djokovic is the second in the BOAT list: Djokovic has no argument to be the BOAT, since he has a losing H2H in Grand Slams against his greater rival (Nadal). No BOAT can have a losing H2H in Grand Slams against his greatest rival. The "only on clay" excuse is ridiculous. Clay is a tennis surface, and Nadal also leads Djokovic 2-1 at the US Open.
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I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
What if Fognini wins RG will he be the goat 
?
?
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Just my 2 cents: 2017 had a closer 5th set, so I can see why people felt it was a "better match". But the overall quality of tennis, and level of the 2009 final was quite extraordinary. It just lacked the climax of a closer deciding set.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I agree with your analysis, Subway. The AO 2009 final had a higher level of tennis (both players at their prime and Nadal being faster than ever and reaching impossible balls). The AO 2017 had maybe more historical significance due to their close distance in Slams and the fact that it could be their last Slam final.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Fed is the better player by far with Novak second. Nadal is only in the discussion due to his clay achievement. Nadal is just terrible indoors never winning a YEC.
Nadal has never dominated the game the way Fed and Novak have losing too many times to random players.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/ro...06-2015-john-mcenroe-rafael-nadal-grand-slams
@Sport deliberately ignores what happened in the last australian open. Nadal was at his best and got thrashed. It can't be ignored that Novak has been able to beat Nadal in every tournament that matters (AO FO Wim US WTF all MS1000)
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Benjamin Rio
Professional
Fed was unlucky in the AO 2009 and was the better tennis player. He only lost because "Nadal was reaching impossible balls".
Benjamin Rio
Professional
I have got a question to @Sport
If Novak wins the FO this year (which looks unlikely now regarding his current form) would you rate Novak above Nadal in the goat debate and various achievements?
Djokovic can manage it mentally, but his childish, infantile 'revolted brat' behavior at non Major events (not playing to win) after outcome at WTF18 finals deprives himself of being physically fit, and prevents him from adopting his playing style to particular surface in competitive matches for making it happen. It is truly sad to witness the idiotic gamble he is performing with chance he has now with NCYGS and beyond.
No sane person needs a 'guru' in order to know that this conduct is not the way to preserve 'inner child' in one's self. Whether Djokovic knows it also, we'll find out soon.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
TOTAL NONSENSE!
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
It's not that clay isnt an as important surface as the others - it is, it's the fact that 7 of the slam matches between Nadal and Djokovic have come on clay and only 8 on the other surfaces combined. Not only that but 7 matches at Nadal's best slam and only 2 at Djokovic's. Thus the slam H2H is tilted in Nadal's favour.
You've said before there can be no GOAt because 2 hard court slams favour HC players, by the same logic, vastly more meetings at RG compared to the AO favors Nadal.
Also it's a double edged sword because Djokovic has beaten Nadal in all slams, Nadal has not beaten Djokovic at the AO
Really there is no BOAT and there is no GOAT because nothing can be 100% fair to all players. All I would say is that Fed, Nadal and Djokovic are all of a similar level and all have points in their favour and it's down to opinion on who is actually the overall best player
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Right, the OP has picked Nadal's pet event to decide the GOAT... well that's very unbiased! Lol
Nadal having 12 RG titles wont make him the GOAT of anything other than clay which he already is. Why would 12 even significantly be better than 11?
There is no GOAT, but if there were it will be decided when someone reaches at least ties Feds slam count which both Nadal and Djokovic could do. Fed winning RG for 21 just extends his claim and gives double career slam, Djokovic having 16 slams gives him double career slam but hes still trailing Fed and Nadal on slams. Really Nadal has least to gain out of this, AO would at least give him double career slam
Nadal having 12 RG titles wont make him the GOAT of anything other than clay which he already is. Why would 12 even significantly be better than 11?
There is no GOAT, but if there were it will be decided when someone reaches at least ties Feds slam count which both Nadal and Djokovic could do. Fed winning RG for 21 just extends his claim and gives double career slam, Djokovic having 16 slams gives him double career slam but hes still trailing Fed and Nadal on slams. Really Nadal has least to gain out of this, AO would at least give him double career slam
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
parera has confirmed this 11 titles and it's still not enough for some
Benjamin Rio
Professional
@Sport is a Nadal fan....he's biased.
Novak is already far better than Nadal. 4 slams in a row 5 Yec better slam distribution number of weeks as number 1. His 2015 season is one of the best in the open era. He's won every masters 1000 and has beaten Nadal in every GS WtF masters 1000.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I know that, thing is I dont believe there is a GOAT. Novak is better than Nadal in some ways and Nadal is better in some ways, but the slam H2H is obviously tilted in Nadal's favour due to the amount of meetings at RG compared to any other slam, it quite clearly gives him an advantage. If it was the same amount at every slam, who knows
Benjamin Rio
Professional
It doesn't give Nadal an advantage. It just proves his lack of consistency. He couldn't make it to Novak losing to Gonzalez Tsonga Murray Ferrer Berdych Verdasco Rosol Darcis Kyrgios Brown Muller Blake Youznhy Fognini Pouille...
Nadal is better on clay. That's about it.
Novak and Fed are better on clay than Nadal on anything else but clay.
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
It gives him an advantage in the H2H. Play someone on your best tournament much more than at their best best, you are bound to come out with more wins. It's simple.
Hes also been defeated at his best by Djokovic in straight sets at his best slam, which he's never done to Djokovic at the AO (or Wimbledon or US open. In fact in his Wimbledon win he still only took one completed set vs Djokocic, meaning he won more completed sets in his 2018 loss)
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Greatest clay court player ever ou greatest lefty but not GOAT. No more no less.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Wouldnt Fed gain the most by winning it this year? He would not only go 4 up on Nadal and 6 up on Djokovic while keeping both of them at bay as they get older. This would almost certainly keep his GOAT status forever.
This however, is unlikely, so if Nadal wins, even though it is #12 at RG, it puts him in great position to tie or pass Fed before his age really catches him.
Djokovic winning really does help him gain momentum with getting to 4 within Fed, two career slams, and two slams away from a chance of a calender slam. Within a year he could potentially catch Fed.
But with all this being said, this one tournament out of 53 slams does not make or break someone's GOAT legacy.
This however, is unlikely, so if Nadal wins, even though it is #12 at RG, it puts him in great position to tie or pass Fed before his age really catches him.
Djokovic winning really does help him gain momentum with getting to 4 within Fed, two career slams, and two slams away from a chance of a calender slam. Within a year he could potentially catch Fed.
But with all this being said, this one tournament out of 53 slams does not make or break someone's GOAT legacy.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
The greatest match is either the Wimbledon 08 final or the AO 12 final. Anyone who says otherwise is in the minority.
ghostofMecir
Legend
It’s funny how VamosNation completely wishes this loss away as if it were nothing.
A first round loss to a midget in a year when he won 74 matches and 10 titles, defeating players ranked in the top 10 twenty-four times (by far his most ever) at 26-27 years of age.
Meanwhile, both Vamos people and Djokovic nuts harp on Federer’s losses to Millman, etc., when he’s an old man and at least made it out of the first round.
Additionally, Djoko army wants Fed to be at his peak in a season in which he lost to Seppi in the 3rd round of a slam.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
All depends what you enjoy in tennis.
If you like clay court tennis being played on a hard court AO 2012 is the greatest match ever.
Wimbledon 2008: Fed was far from playing his best. He had an average year in 2008 losing to james blake in the olympics
Indigo
Professional
Seems you misinterpreted this. Are you talking to me? What I said is the following: If Novak wins RG this year, he is better than Nadal. Kapeesh Robert de Niro? In that case Novak has, I will repeat, double career grand slam, two times non-calendar grand slam, all masters and he has 16 GSs. Nadal has 17 GSs but doesn't have anything what Novak has. Hence Novak is the BOAT. Fed is GOAT because of the number of GSs and not only that, Fed is synonym for tennis and will stay that way after careers of big three are finished. I hope we can meet somewhere in the middle in our opinions. Btw, if Nadal wins RG 2019 it will not make him GOAT or BOAT. He simply can't be BOAT. He doesn't even have WTF not to mention consecutive four GSs, etc.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic beat top ranked Nadal outside clay 5 times (WI11, UO11, AO12, WI18, AO19)
Nadal beat top ranked Djokovic outside clay 1 time (UO13)
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
No Excuses
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Given their style of play, Nole may last a bit longer than Rafa. But 'tis folly or unwarranted optimism to expect either to hold up more than just a few more years.
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