Full list of tennis programs being wiped out due to COVID

NoChance

Rookie
If your "athletic tree" has too many branches, and some need to be pruned, for many ADs out there, programs such as Winthrop's are the low hanging branches. Easy to trim.

I'm hoping that we are nearing the end of the cuts for the coming fall. It is nearly July, and a number of young adults have some difficult decisions to make. It would be tough to figure out a landing spot if your program is cut, and school starts in a month or less. In my mind, schools that cut programs after the end of June are not being fair to the student/athletes involved, be they international or not.
 

fngmoe

New User
If your "athletic tree" has too many branches, and some need to be pruned, for many ADs out there, programs such as Winthrop's are the low hanging branches. Easy to trim.

I'm hoping that we are nearing the end of the cuts for the coming fall. It is nearly July, and a number of young adults have some difficult decisions to make. It would be tough to figure out a landing spot if your program is cut, and school starts in a month or less. In my mind, schools that cut programs after the end of June are not being fair to the student/athletes involved, be they international or not.
I believe that cuts can happen right up until 7/1, so I don't think we're quite done, unfortunately. One of the coaches groups that I belong to mentioned that there are still a bunch to go.
 

silentkman

Professional
Winthrop did not have a single US kid on either their women's or men's teams. Why would the student body or college administrators or anyone in the surrounding community care whether the team won or lost, or if it even existed?
Unfortunately, this is a frequent occurrence. VCU is notorious for having only foreigners. In the big scheme of things, nobody in the community cares about tennis anyway except for a handful of schools.
 

andfor

Legend
Unfortunately, this is a frequent occurrence. VCU is notorious for having only foreigners. In the big scheme of things, nobody in the community cares about tennis anyway except for a handful of schools.
Same can be said for golf, cross-country, track and field, and more. From my experience tennis programs that make an effort to try to get fans out do see an uptick in attendance, yeah I know, still not great numbers. So attendance and where the athlete comes from has little to do with the decision to cut.

Let's stop it with blaming the internationals, it's a financial decision first and foremost. Money needed for athletics when bloated programs (sports and non-sports) exist elsewhere and budgets are hemorrhaging is the primary issue.
 

silentkman

Professional
Same can be said for golf, cross-country, track and field, and more. From my experience tennis programs that make an effort to try to get fans out do see an uptick in attendance, yeah I know, still not great numbers. So attendance and where the athlete comes from has little to do with the decision to cut.

Let's stop it with blaming the internationals, it's a financial decision first and foremost. Money needed for athletics when bloated programs (sports and non-sports) exist elsewhere and budgets are hemorrhaging is the primary issue.
even the ITA admitted that the largest percentage of foreigners play college tennis. please don't talk about attendance. The goal for college tennis is to get 500+ fans and they don't pay. c'mon, we all why they do it. I'm not sure the finances have anything to with it. They do it to WIN period. An average tennis program takes roughly 500K to run.
 

WCB

New User
Same can be said for golf, cross-country, track and field, and more. From my experience tennis programs that make an effort to try to get fans out do see an uptick in attendance, yeah I know, still not great numbers. So attendance and where the athlete comes from has little to do with the decision to cut.

Let's stop it with blaming the internationals, it's a financial decision first and foremost. Money needed for athletics when bloated programs (sports and non-sports) exist elsewhere and budgets are hemorrhaging is the primary issue.

There is no doubt that it is a financial decision....I guess the question for me is why tennis is getting cut at a higher rate vs other athletic non-revenue programs. If you are looking to save $$ why not cut golf, swimming, crew, softball, etc. - in fact some of the larger programs, such as baseball, soccer, swimming, might actually save more money as they cost more to run. I am sure that each college has its specific reasons as to which sports to cut (based on facilities, tradition, set up, alumni support for that specific sport, etc) ….but based on an article I saw recently (I think it was posted here) it looked like tennis was getting cut at a higher rate, why is that?
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
There is no doubt that it is a financial decision....I guess the question for me is why tennis is getting cut at a higher rate vs other athletic non-revenue programs. If you are looking to save $$ why not cut golf, swimming, crew, softball, etc. - in fact some of the larger programs, such as baseball, soccer, swimming, might actually save more money as they cost more to run. I am sure that each college has its specific reasons as to which sports to cut (based on facilities, tradition, set up, alumni support for that specific sport, etc) ….but based on an article I saw recently (I think it was posted here) it looked like tennis was getting cut at a higher rate, why is that?
Baseball and Soccer can charge a small admission fee to recoup some costs, Tennis outside of NCAA Tourney and Indoor Regionals do not charge any admission.
 

andfor

Legend
There is no doubt that it is a financial decision....I guess the question for me is why tennis is getting cut at a higher rate vs other athletic non-revenue programs. If you are looking to save $$ why not cut golf, swimming, crew, softball, etc. - in fact some of the larger programs, such as baseball, soccer, swimming, might actually save more money as they cost more to run. I am sure that each college has its specific reasons as to which sports to cut (based on facilities, tradition, set up, alumni support for that specific sport, etc) ….but based on an article I saw recently (I think it was posted here) it looked like tennis was getting cut at a higher rate, why is that?
Can't recall the exact details I saw on an answer to your question from the past. What I do recall is higher budget cost for tennis versus other sports (I know, doesn't make sense) and Title IX among varying other factors on a case by case basis.
 

silentkman

Professional
Baseball and Soccer can charge a small admission fee to recoup some costs, Tennis outside of NCAA Tourney and Indoor Regionals do not charge any admission.
most of the non revenue sports are free. I'm still fascinated that Wisconsin women's crew has over 70 members.
 
most of the non revenue sports are free. I'm still fascinated that Wisconsin women's crew has over 70 members.
Women's rowing is massively important to balance out scholarship requirements for Title IX as it has the highest scholarship limit per team of any female sport. Additionally, it is an equivalency sport so can put 40 people on half scholarships
 

fngmoe

New User
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WCB

New User
Regarding UConn, I saw an article that highlighted the various expenses of the respective sports ( see below). Tennis has expenses of 298k - (they didn’t offer scholarships). Hardly a big money spender and cutting the sport doesn’t seem like it really saves much money. I guess every $ counts but seems like that just didn’t place any value on the tennis program.


‘The rowing team’s expenses totaled $1.5 million in the previous fiscal year 2019, with revenue of $264,000. Swimming and diving has operating costs of roughly $719,000, tennis $298,000 and cross country/track $1.53 million. The four sports on the list cost about $4 million in 2019, and raised about $400,000.’
 
Appalachian State University: Men’s

Broward College: Women’s
University of Akron: Women’s
North Central Texas College: Women’s

Earlham College: Men’s and Women’s
East Carolina University: Men’s and Women’s
Laredo College: Men’s and Women’s
Sonoma State University: Men’s and Women’s
St. Edwards University: Men’s and Women’s
Taylor University: Men’s and Women’s
University of Wisconsin-GB: Men’s and Women’s
University of Alabama-Huntsville: Men’s and Women’s
Wright State University: Men’s and Women’s

In total, 1 school cut Men’s Tennis, 3 schools cut Women’s Tennis, and 9 schools cut both programs, for a total of 13 programs cut so far.

Akron and App State were quite solid programs. So far, not a single Power 5 has discontinued any athletic program.

Contrary to some belief, D1’s are not the only schools cutting programs. NCTC (NJCAA), Taylor (NAIA), St. Edwards (DII), and Earlham (DIII) have cut their programs as well.

When a program gets cut, post it here and I’ll update the list.
Just temporarily?
 

WCB

New User
Fun fact -- according to a yahoo article "Cincinnati cut men's soccer in March, which will save the school roughly $725,000. That's less than it paid its football support staff (i.e. non-coaches) last year, and head football coach Luke Fickell earned $2.3 million." I had also seen that Florida State spends $90,000 per year in hotels for the football players for HOME game. Certainly a lot of fat in the college football ranks....although they are the ones that are generating all the revenue.

Was just thinking of these numbers in context of the $279,000 it takes to fund the entire UConn tennis program. Again, the other side of the argument is that football is generating the revenue...
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Fun fact -- according to a yahoo article "Cincinnati cut men's soccer in March, which will save the school roughly $725,000. That's less than it paid its football support staff (i.e. non-coaches) last year, and head football coach Luke Fickell earned $2.3 million." I had also seen that Florida State spends $90,000 per year in hotels for the football players for HOME game. Certainly a lot of fat in the college football ranks....although they are the ones that are generating all the revenue.

Was just thinking of these numbers in context of the $279,000 it takes to fund the entire UConn tennis program. Again, the other side of the argument is that football is generating the revenue...
If you think about it, why should football program have to reduce spending when it is the one that generates revenue to support other programs?
 

EP1998

Semi-Pro
We were using the same courts Blackman was in Boca Raton. His 'academy' was his 3 kids and their friends and a couple other local kids. Once expenses were paid, his profit was around $40,000. Guys talk over a few beers about stuff like that. Katrina Adams became top dog at USTA and hired friends like him at high salaries, and gave others like Richard Ashby big raises. Lots of nepotism at the USTA. But no money now so the gravy train is slowing down.
Patrick McEnroe earned a substantial amount when he was in PD. Probably enough to cover Martin, Richard and Kathy.
 

WCB

New User
Add Iowa to the list (for men’s tennis)

I believe this is one of the first schools from a power five conferences to drop tennis. They dropped four sports
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Add Iowa to the list (for men’s tennis)

I believe this is one of the first schools from a power five conferences to drop tennis. They dropped four sports
Men’s gymnastics, men’s tennis, and men’s and women’s swimming and diving will be discontinued, Iowa athletics director Gary Barta and UI president Bruce Harreld announced Friday.

Cutting four sports begins to chip away at the deficit. Last month, the Register published an analysis of Iowa's athletics finances that outlined what each sport at Iowa costs against what it brings in.

In fiscal year 2019, men’s gymnastics spent $922,773 more than it brought in. The deficits of expenses versus revenues for the other programs being cut: $698,809 for men’s tennis; $1,280,146 for men’s swimming/diving; and $1,364,698 for women’s swimming/diving. Add those up, and the total “savings” (one way to put it) is a shade over $4.25 million annually. Multiply that number by five years, and the overall savings would top $20 million. Obviously that doesn’t make up $60 million-plus, so other cuts will be coming from the university — probably in administrative staff, travel budgets and furloughs/salary reductions.

This proves that most American people do NOT care about tennis, except for the upper middle class and the wealthy. 90% of colleges/universities can drop the tennis program and no one would care.

700K/year in a scheme of thing is a drop in the bucket in term of University revenue. That amount is less than the salary for one of the football assistant coaches. That tells you something about tennis.

At least 2/3 of Iowa men tennis roster is filled with international students.

The big 10 cancelled fall football and parents are very upset about it. There is now talk about moving football to January 2021.
 

silentkman

Professional
Men’s gymnastics, men’s tennis, and men’s and women’s swimming and diving will be discontinued, Iowa athletics director Gary Barta and UI president Bruce Harreld announced Friday.

Cutting four sports begins to chip away at the deficit. Last month, the Register published an analysis of Iowa's athletics finances that outlined what each sport at Iowa costs against what it brings in.

In fiscal year 2019, men’s gymnastics spent $922,773 more than it brought in. The deficits of expenses versus revenues for the other programs being cut: $698,809 for men’s tennis; $1,280,146 for men’s swimming/diving; and $1,364,698 for women’s swimming/diving. Add those up, and the total “savings” (one way to put it) is a shade over $4.25 million annually. Multiply that number by five years, and the overall savings would top $20 million. Obviously that doesn’t make up $60 million-plus, so other cuts will be coming from the university — probably in administrative staff, travel budgets and furloughs/salary reductions.

This proves that most American people do NOT care about tennis, except for the upper middle class and the wealthy. 90% of colleges/universities can drop the tennis program and no one would care.

700K/year in a scheme of thing is a drop in the bucket in term of University revenue. That amount is less than the salary for one of the football assistant coaches. That tells you something about tennis.

At least 2/3 of Iowa men tennis roster is filled with international students.

The big 10 cancelled fall football and parents are very upset about it. There is now talk about moving football to January 2021.
we've always known that nobody cares about tennis except for the people on the boards here. c'mon most tennis fans don't care about College tennis. The goal for college tennis is to have 500 at match that is FREE. If you were an AD how interest would you be in tennis? this is a rehash what everyone knows.
 
we've always known that nobody cares about tennis except for the people on the boards here. c'mon most tennis fans don't care about College tennis. The goal for college tennis is to have 500 at match that is FREE. If you were an AD how interest would you be in tennis? this is a rehash what everyone knows.
And it also doesn't function as a feeder system like the higher profile college sports do.
 

brucewaschuk

New User
And what has the ITA done about all of this?
Hello Collegetennisrules, what do you believe the ITA should be doing?

Disclaimer: I work for the ITA. We've begun to collect information on a College Tennis Advocacy page to address some of the issues facing college tennis today. The small staff at the ITA continues to work hard in an effort to deal with today's challenging times. We appreciate any feedback you might have.
 

brucewaschuk

New User
And it also doesn't function as a feeder system like the higher profile college sports do.
Keep in mind; professional tennis is a global sport that utilizes a worldwide feeder system.

However, there is an increasing number of college tennis players making their way to the pro tour. The 2020 US Open doubles draw has 24% of the players being former college athletes. (Reference men's and women's lists.) There were also 20 former college players in the singles draws. (Reference men's and women's lists.)
 
Hello Collegetennisrules, what do you believe the ITA should be doing?

Disclaimer: I work for the ITA. We've begun to collect information on a College Tennis Advocacy page to address some of the issues facing college tennis today. The small staff at the ITA continues to work hard in an effort to deal with today's challenging times. We appreciate any feedback you might have.
I can't speak for college players, but as the parent of a junior player, I feel like ITA and UTR have really stepped up to fill what has been a significant void during this time. That being said, I don't think ITA has publicized its efforts especially well, which understandably may be why collegetennisrules has the impression ITA hasn't been doing much.

The fall series is a great idea, but if we didn't research like crazy, we never would have known about it. The players we've mentioned it to hadn't heard of it -- and some of them had even played ITA summer tournaments. Your ITA Fall Series UTR club page doesn't even have the tournaments listed under its Events tab.

I'm going to dm you, so please check your messages.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Thank you very much for your DM. Suggestions for improvement are always appreciated.

For people wishing to get regular college tennis updates from the ITA, they can sign up for our weekly newsletters at wearecollegetennis.com/newsletters

I listened to the ITA podcast interview with Kendall Brooks and the interviewer made a misleading comment at the beginning of the podcast. He stated that many of the tennis programs got eliminated had nothing to do with money crunch and that they got eliminated due to something else, like something of a conspiracy, even donors have offer to give the school more than enough to save the tennis program.

When he interviewed coach Kendall Brooks, she stated that the tennis program got eliminated due to shortage of funding, and that they didn’t have enough donors to keep the program funded for the next two years and going forward. The tennis program didn’t have enough funding that it had to delay resurfacing the tennis courts.

How about the ITA go begging Larry Ellison and Bill Gates to fund college tennis programs? These two guys can fund college tennis programs for the next 100 years with less than 1% of the interest from their personal fortunes.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
Hello Collegetennisrules, what do you believe the ITA should be doing?

Disclaimer: I work for the ITA. We've begun to collect information on a College Tennis Advocacy page to address some of the issues facing college tennis today. The small staff at the ITA continues to work hard in an effort to deal with today's challenging times. We appreciate any feedback you might have.
I think the ITA is doing a good job of adjusting to COVID by adding the ITA fall circuit events for juniors, unattached college players, etc since most conferences have cancelled fall competition. I wish there were more prize money events-some regions have plenty and other sections have none. However, it seems like some of the events that advertised prize $ on the ITA site dont mention it at all on the UTR registration sites while others have added prize $ which is not listed on the ITA site. I know these events should be popular with juniors who are always looking to bump up UTR-not sure how many college players will play on their own dime-many may have tight budgets plus international players wont have cars and will have to rely on teammates. Usually it takes prize $ or ATP points to get a D1 upperclass collegian to play on their own dime-the freshmen with cars will probably want to play. The ones in commuting distance to several universities will probably do well-with COVID, I dont know how many ADs or coaches would approve sharing hotel rooms even if unattached and too expensive for solo.

While the fall circuit is somewhat a substitute for fall invitationals, is there any event or special fall circuits that could mimick the fall Regionals? Those events allowed the top MM players to play against P5 opponents. It would be great if there were prize $ tourney with a 64 draw of unattached player in each region/subregion that might attract a draw similar to the Regionals although it would include juniors too.

The general rumors are that athletic scholarships will be cut even in D1 MM and possibly P5 programs in future years and cut more in D2. While that is not good news, the bright side is possibly more opportunities for walk on Americans with good grades who could earn merit scholarships. Coaches will have more roster spots if fewer internationals can afford to play college tennis. Where I see a gap is that no tennis organization is working with the state high school associations. I think Texas works with UTR to get results on UTR. However, I could see ITA on their own or working with UTR to create an Ebook on recruiting/college tennis that could be sent to high school state associations to forward to HS coaches. If scholarships are likely to be cut, the tennis path needs to be cheaper, and one way to do that is to improve high school tennis and have more of those results or at least state playoffs on UTR and possibly encourage more college coaches to attend some state playoffs-esp D2 and D3 but even D1. At the last state final my son played, 4 of the 6 singles guys between the 2 teams went on to play D1 tennis (in lineup, not bench-one even plays P5 and had an ITA ranking), one is a D3 All American, and one plays club at a SEC schools. Yet I never saw a college coach at state finals. I also think ITA could possibly work with state HS associations to encourage the return of singles and doubles championships-some states with a lot of talent only have team championships. Some of the players who have made the biggest jumps in UTR in college are guys and girls who didnt play many USTA tourneys but were either team or singles contenders for state HS titles. Unfortunately HS ADs invite some recruiting associations to HS, and those groups try to convince players they need to buy a package just to create a profile which is available much cheaper on TRN, UTR, or I've heard Im Recruitable now has a $99 package. A lot of HS players who dont go to academy or the tournament route are relatively clueless, unrealistic, and late to the recruiting game, but could be great assets to some college team if they received some direction by their soph year.
 

J_Ring

New User
yes, according to what I found, about 2.7 million.
The Cincinnati football team usually takes in about $15 million per year, and according to your data comes out about $2.7 million ahead. The entire athletic program costs about $56 million to run, and the deficit is made up out of the overall university budget. Now, even though the football team does turn a profit, it is not a big one, and because the university gives 85 scholarships to men to play football, then to be compliant with Title IX, it has to give a near equivalent amount of scholarships to women's sports which lose money. Therefore the true cost to run a football program is far more than the amount of money spent on only the football team itself.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
The Cincinnati football team usually takes in about $15 million per year, and according to your data comes out about $2.7 million ahead. The entire athletic program costs about $56 million to run, and the deficit is made up out of the overall university budget. Now, even though the football team does turn a profit, it is not a big one, and because the university gives 85 scholarships to men to play football, then to be compliant with Title IX, it has to give a near equivalent amount of scholarships to women's sports which lose money. Therefore the true cost to run a football program is far more than the amount of money spent on only the football team itself.
How do universities and the ITA address the inequality between minority athletes and their white counterparts? https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/us/ncaa-student-athletes-equal-pay-trnd/index.html

Affluent White student-athletes are profiting from the labor of their poor Black peers, study says

A new study of the economics of college sports found that affluent White students are profiting off the labor of poor Black students.

The report found that the money generated by football and basketball programs -- whose majority of players are Black -- pays for the salaries of coaches and administrators, is used to upgrade facilities the teams use, and finances non-revenue sports played mostly by affluent White student athletes.

 

silentkman

Professional
How do universities and the ITA address the inequality between minority athletes and their white counterparts? https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/us/ncaa-student-athletes-equal-pay-trnd/index.html

Affluent White student-athletes are profiting from the labor of their poor Black peers, study says

A new study of the economics of college sports found that affluent White students are profiting off the labor of poor Black students.

The report found that the money generated by football and basketball programs -- whose majority of players are Black -- pays for the salaries of coaches and administrators, is used to upgrade facilities the teams use, and finances non-revenue sports played mostly by affluent White student athletes.
You don't have to be genius to figure that out. They actually wasted money on a study that is common knowledge. sheesh
 

andfor

Legend
You don't have to be genius to figure that out. They actually wasted money on a study that is common knowledge. sheesh
Another grievance and guilt study. Very few care. Sure some vocal proponents of paying college athletes care, mostly because if college athletes get paid they can stick their hand in that cookie jar. College sports was originally intended to provide recreation and promote the school for prospective students. Absurd athletic revenue streams at the largest schools have unfortunately dwarfed those once seemingly decent concepts. The leeches who want college athletes paid have artfully convinced a few others that the college degree they earn is not enough.
 

J_Ring

New User
Cincinnati could probably axe the football team, and then go with a few men's and women's sports like basketball and tennis. However the prestige of having a D1 football program is worth the money for most universities.
 

silentkman

Professional
Another grievance and guilt study. Very few care. Sure some vocal proponents of paying college athletes care, mostly because if college athletes get paid they can stick their hand in that cookie jar. College sports was originally intended to provide recreation and promote the school for prospective students. Absurd athletic revenue streams at the largest schools have unfortunately dwarfed those once seemingly decent concepts. The leeches who want college athletes paid have artfully convinced a few others that the college degree they earn is not enough.
please provide an example of the leeches that college athletes paid. foro example, a fair amount of people support Ohio State that went to other universities. I remember reading about a decade or so ago that Ohio State made 8 million in parking fees. I guess the profits should go to the tennis and other non-revenue sports. yes, I believe the major sports athletes should be paid.
 
Hi @brucewaschuk,

As I am in Australia and have nothing to do with the US College System I don't think I can offer anything of value regarding the ITA.

But I do really wish to say Thank You for your efforts and contributions to developing UTR.

Imho, UTR is going to change the face of the sport globally in a huge way. The Tennis Rankings systems in use in Australia have become a complete shambles over the past decade. Various levels of competition here have descended into decay simply because there was no unified system for comparing the performances of different players across the entire sport here.

We have seen so many families here waste tens of thousands of dollars developing their junior players to what they thought were exceptional levels ... until they ventured overseas and painfully learned they weren't as good as they thought they were. Perhaps with UTR in place, many of them would have been much better prepared.

Tennis Australia has FINALLY embraced UTR. We really hope it will be rolled out everywhere quickly so that players at all levels here can have an objective way of seeing where they are at without having to risk more money and time than they have to.

Stay Safe.
 

brucewaschuk

New User
Where I see a gap is that no tennis organization is working with the state high school associations. I think Texas works with UTR to get results on UTR. However, I could see ITA on their own or working with UTR to create an Ebook on recruiting/college tennis that could be sent to high school state associations to forward to HS coaches. If scholarships are likely to be cut, the tennis path needs to be cheaper, and one way to do that is to improve high school tennis and have more of those results or at least state playoffs on UTR and possibly encourage more college coaches to attend some state playoffs-esp D2 and D3 but even D1. At the last state final my son played, 4 of the 6 singles guys between the 2 teams went on to play D1 tennis (in lineup, not bench-one even plays P5 and had an ITA ranking), one is a D3 All American, and one plays club at a SEC schools. Yet I never saw a college coach at state finals. I also think ITA could possibly work with state HS associations to encourage the return of singles and doubles championships-some states with a lot of talent only have team championships. Some of the players who have made the biggest jumps in UTR in college are guys and girls who didnt play many USTA tourneys but were either team or singles contenders for state HS titles. Unfortunately HS ADs invite some recruiting associations to HS, and those groups try to convince players they need to buy a package just to create a profile which is available much cheaper on TRN, UTR, or I've heard Im Recruitable now has a $99 package. A lot of HS players who dont go to academy or the tournament route are relatively clueless, unrealistic, and late to the recruiting game, but could be great assets to some college team if they received some direction by their soph year.
Great insight. Thank you!
 

andfor

Legend
please provide an example of the leeches that college athletes paid. foro example, a fair amount of people support Ohio State that went to other universities. I remember reading about a decade or so ago that Ohio State made 8 million in parking fees. I guess the profits should go to the tennis and other non-revenue sports. yes, I believe the major sports athletes should be paid.
Agents and many advocates for paying college athletes, friends of athletes, etc., someone will look to unionize them, etc., all leeches. I do believe DI athletes should be taken care of for day to day needs, pretty much draw the line there. Parking lots need upkeep from the heavy traffic.
 
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silentkman

Professional
Agents and many advocates for paying college athletes, friends of athletes, etc., someone will look to unionize them, etc., all leeches. I do believe DI athletes should be taken care of for day to day needs, pretty much draw the line there. Parking lots need upkeep from the heavy traffic.
we obviously have a difference of opinion on this issue. I'm glad to see the athletes realizing how much power they have as a group.
 

andfor

Legend
we obviously have a difference of opinion on this issue. I'm glad to see the athletes realizing how much power they have as a group.
And I'm okay with the difference of opinion. It's a complicated issue for sure. P5 for the most part of the fortunate ones on the revenue side. Many DI programs though are the have nots and looking for a payday in a bowl game, preseason football big game matchup, March Madness type run.

I see many of the football and basketball payrolls as bloated and salary's being absurd. I'm surprised there has not been a major pro sport or college (NCAA) financial collapse by now. The next ten years in college and pro sport will be telling. But I've been saying that for a while now.
 

silentkman

Professional
And I'm okay with the difference of opinion. It's a complicated issue for sure. P5 for the most part of the fortunate ones on the revenue side. Many DI programs though are the have nots and looking for a payday in a bowl game, preseason football big game matchup, March Madness type run.

I see many of the football and basketball payrolls as bloated and salary's being absurd. I'm surprised there has not been a major pro sport or college (NCAA) financial collapse by now. The next ten years in college and pro sport will be telling. But I've been saying that for a while now.
The problem is that for the have nots the students are covering the cost with extra fees etc. there are a lot of students who have no interest in sports, yet they have to pay for it. I don't see a collapse, but the non-revenue sports (tennis etc) are in big trouble. Look at Stanford for example. How do you sell a non revenue sport to an AD? I think somebody mention having more regional competition for non-revenue sports to save money. Crazy world we live in.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Another grievance and guilt study. Very few care. Sure some vocal proponents of paying college athletes care, mostly because if college athletes get paid they can stick their hand in that cookie jar. College sports was originally intended to provide recreation and promote the school for prospective students. Absurd athletic revenue streams at the largest schools have unfortunately dwarfed those once seemingly decent concepts. The leeches who want college athletes paid have artfully convinced a few others that the college degree they earn is not enough.
Such a typical response from a white privilege. I graduated from Ohio State and I don't want to see money from the football program built on sweat and labor from players like Maurice Clairett & Terrell Pryor to subsidize JJ Wolf to fulfill his professional tennis career. Did you know that both Clairett and Pryor did NOT graduate from OSU? So the idea that these athletes earn a meaningful degree in exchange for their athletic at OSU is a complete fantasy. Then again, you should have known that.

The problem is that for the have nots the students are covering the cost with extra fees etc. there are a lot of students who have no interest in sports, yet they have to pay for it. I don't see a collapse, but the non-revenue sports (tennis etc) are in big trouble. Look at Stanford for example. How do you sell a non revenue sport to an AD? I think somebody mention having more regional competition for non-revenue sports to save money. Crazy world we live in.
Non revenue sport programs like tennis and golf need to raise its own fund and not deep into revenues generated from football and basketball.
 

silentkman

Professional
Such a typical response from a white privilege. I graduated from Ohio State and I don't want to see money from the football program built on sweat and labor from players like Maurice Clairett & Terrell Pryor to subsidize JJ Wolf to fulfill his professional tennis career. Did you know that both Clairett and Pryor did NOT graduate from OSU? So the idea that these athletes earn a meaningful degree in exchange for their athletic at OSU is a complete fantasy. Then again, you should have known that.



Non revenue sport programs like tennis and golf need to raise its own fund and not deep into revenues generated from football and basketball.
I agree, but how can golf and tennis raise money without any fans?
 

andfor

Legend
I agree, but how can golf and tennis raise money without any fans?
Many/most non-revenue programs do raise their own money. Usually from former player alumni, other alumni and friends of the program.

Bob likes to show off his Marxist and MSM indoctrination accusing people of things he knows nothing about. He also excels at unsubstantiated generalizations and displays an ongoing myopic view of OSU athletics from his time there when he was a Woody Hays disciple. HAHA
 

silentkman

Professional
Many/most non-revenue programs do raise their own money. Usually from former player alumni, other alumni and friends of the program.

Bob likes to show off his Marxist and MSM indoctrination accusing people of things he knows nothing about. He also excels at unsubstantiated generalizations and displays an ongoing myopic view of OSU athletics from his time there when he was a Woody Hays disciple. HAHA
very funny, I'm going to the the OSU comments alone. Can they raise enough money to be self sustaining on a consistent basis?
 
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