Full poly just doesnt work for me

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Shroud, May 18, 2017.

  1. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    tried solinco Revolution 16g at 72 lbs and it was good for the first 10-15 minutes but after that it was too soft and powerful.

    Back to kevlar/poly at 86/86
     
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  2. danbrenner

    danbrenner Hall of Fame

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    Why 86? Was 85 too soft ??
     
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  3. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Of course!!! Actually 86lbs is the limit for my stringing machine. Dont think this train wouldnt get to 100 if it could...

    It could just be my sticks are powerful and need toned down but i was optimistic full poly would work. It was nice but short lived
     
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  4. Sambuccashake

    Sambuccashake Professional

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    For fun, have you ever tried a soft poly @ lowish 40 lbs?
    Would be curious to find out how that would work for someone like you.
     
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  5. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

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    Actually for fun have you ever tried just playing a stock racket with poly at 45 lbs. Your Frankenstein experiments seem well outside of the bell curve of normalcy, so I suspect it will be impossible to suggest a string for those rackets of yours.
     
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  6. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Our friend Shroud has tried ELT. That was a few years ago. Then he got hooked by the mad scientist, Travlerajm, and started to do differentials. That was the start of his journey into the nether worlds of EHT. For a time, He tried 86/86 all Kevlar. Good thing he is an alien from Ka-el's home planet (Melmac?) or perhaps he has that Captain America gene. Anyway, he is what he is. Must eat a lot of spinach. :p
     
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  7. ShahofTennis

    ShahofTennis Professional

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    Wht not modify a dropweight or crank tensioner? Provided you have a lockout mechanism that can sustain it, 100lbs should be pretty simple.

    Better yet, give up on this frilly old sport of tennis and having to modify childs-toy tensioners, and join the world of pro wrestling entertainment. Plenty of jarring injuries, heavy weights, and subsequent prescription drug use to be had there. God bless.
     
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  8. danbrenner

    danbrenner Hall of Fame

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    Lool. Cool.
    I never used Kevlar.
    But I will say this. All of the typical polys lose their own natural playing characteristics at about 60lbs. Do u agree?
     
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  9. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Hall of Fame

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    You are the Neil deGrasse Tyson of your time when it comes to racquets and strings ... way ahead of the rest of your species.
     
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  10. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I noticed solinco gained power like a lot of polys do. Try RS Lyon 17 gauge at 70lbs.
     
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  11. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    That is not my experience, to me poly plays fine at 65lbs. It depends on the racket and the poly but 60 is not that high of tension. One of my hitting partners who has been using full poly string jobs at 70lbs for years and recently tried the same poly at 55 lbs. he said he didn't notice much difference the first day. But he said the next few days he felt like the string was way to powerful, so he went back to his normal 70lbs.
     
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  12. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Not really. Ever heard of Sampras and Blake?
     
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  13. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Thats what i have heard. Personally i dont know what polys characteristics. They seem soft and lose tension fast. So if that is the characteristic then yeah i suppose they do
     
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  14. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Inhave a gamma 6004 which came with a crank. I still have the crank. Iirc it goes to 90.

    But i think i will get a stiffer job with an electronic constant pull even if its lower reference tensions since i let it pull for about 30secs
     
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  15. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Melmac is georgeous!

    Actually it was his damn swing weight threads that got me into this boat. That and my handle. Made tweeners a must and well they start out as launchers and adding tons of weight doesnt help... its kale these days

    Elt was heavy 15-16oz depolarized frames no hight swing weights back then really.
     
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  16. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Kind of. My handle is about 50g depending on how i do it. So stock just isnt much of an option unless the frame is super hh. Those are always powerful

    I did have a 6.1 95 (18x20) that i did a differrnt version of the handle but started with 5/8 stock handle. It was strung 75/55 iirc kev/zx. But no one makes 5/8ths these days except for prince and maybe 1 other.

    Trying to use just one frame i only brought one to the courts. Damn if the strings didnt break. Papa Mango let me borrow one of his sticks

    It was an orange prince (100t or something was in my head) that was supposed to be arm friendly. Handle was like 1/4 with an over grip. Little if any lead added maybe 5 g max i guess. Strung at normal tensions with gut/cyberflash iirc

    I played ok with it. It was less stable and less powerful but more maneuverable than mine. But it sucked. At contact it would FLEX from the soft frame and soft gut. Drove me nuts and messed with my confidence. Found myself tightening on the grip to keep it in my hand. He was looking to see if i could do it, and answer is YES. But ugh i hated the feel of that setup.
     
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  17. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Polys are soft and stretchy compared to Kevlar. I think the stiffest poly is around 280 lb/in stiffness and your Kevlar is around 850-950 lb/in stiffness. Also when under a lot of tension, polys are more prone to shearing, which reduces the tension in the string very quickly. Kevlar is 'yawning' and says to itself 'Is this all you got? HeHe' The only reason you can use polys in the cross is the Kevlar mains still do most of the heavy lifting on ball impact. If they couldn't, you would still be using Kevlar/Kevlar. 3 cents.
     
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  18. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Hall of Fame

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    No, who are they ... are they scientists? :D

    I saw a video of Sampras break about 3 mains on a return of serve. He took a good cut with that lumber and hit near the tip and the strings exploded.
     
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  19. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    I still WANT ro use kev/kev. Its the best for me. But it is a locked bed and i lose some spin. Havent tried it in the burn but lackmof spin is the only downside.

    Where are the 800 lb/in stiffness polys???
     
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  20. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Yeah i bet. He was a beast and iirc i think he uses poly now
     
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  21. Doubles

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    To be fair, Sampras was using gut, which is a totally different set of circumstances. With that said, Blade using ALU in a dense 18x20 at crazy high tensions is impressive that he didn't hurt himself.
     
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  22. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah. Kevlar's COF is really bad. Let me throw out this idea. Kevlar string is a multifilament that is woven. I wonder what would happen if there was a way to penetrate the spaces between the filaments with a lubricant so that the COF would go down. Kevlar has a decomposition temperature of over 800 deg. F, so an oven or toaster oven would be OK to use if it is set at 120-125 deg. F. Parafin wax melts at ~100 deg. F. Would the wax make its way into the woven strands and lubricate the Kevlar? How long a wax bath? 15 minutes? 30 minutes should be plenty if you stir the string. Only need to try this on the Kevlar cross. I suspect that it would be messy to remove the string from the wax, but 105 deg. F will not burn you. Would also require a wipe down to remove the wax on the outside of the string. Just an idle thought to help out the Mad Scientist's Assistant. You can broach this thought to the Mad One Himself...:p

    If the wax idea is a non starter, what about soaking the Kevlar in something slippery like Murphy's polish or silicone in a small container? If the stuff improves COF....
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  23. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Doh. May be a hellion to string if it is so slippery, the tensioner cannot grip it. :(
     
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  24. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Like it. Why not add another 30 mins to my stringing time....

    Love the out o the box thinking but i do t think its practical. I used to use olive oil and it worked but not that long and would muck up the balls. But i will think on this.

    Also i am up for trying 86/26 to see if that helps. Maybe with string savers i can get some snap

    For some reason kev/syngut gets props for being spinny but i dont see it. Same witb full kevlar.
     
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  25. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Exactly the reason i stopped using gut.
     
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  26. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Organic oils like Olive, Peanut, Canola or vegetable polymerize or oxidize when exposed to sun light or air. Not really a good choice for a lubricant since they change chemically. Murphy's oil or any of the artificial polishes do not do any of this. Neither would wax when it coats anything. Oh well, think about it and good luck modding up the Burn 100S.
     
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  27. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Would nitroglycerin work?
     
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  28. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Glycerine may work. Nitroglycerine would not. Microscopic amounts of this stuff would tear apart your strings ala the Sampras ROS. Your opponents would probably call a hindrance and you would have to carry at least 30 frames per match.
     
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  29. Ignatz Tushwop

    Ignatz Tushwop Rookie

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    String savers like Federer
     
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  30. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Hall of Fame

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  31. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Pledge would work, but question is how long on a Kevlar/Kevlar hybrid of 86/86? I was thinking of a way to get wax into the woven fibers of Kevlar. Not sure if any liquid polish will stay internal to the string which is why I was thinking wax. Polish is not an issue with polys or synthetics since they are very slippery compared to Kevlar (think rope rubbing against rope...)
     
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  32. Crocodile

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    I was wondering if you have ever tried experimenting with different frame/string combinations.
    Kevlar in a Dunlop MW 200g or Wilson Pro Staff 85 will make most poly's play much firmer.
    The other option is something like a Pro Kennex Micro Ace or Snauwert Hi Ten 30. While these 2 frames are at polar extremes in their string patterns they would offer an interesting insight into various ways you could achieve your outcome.
    For example, with the Micro Ace, it wouldn't take much to firm up the string bed where's with the Hi Ten, you could put s very thick and dead string at a high tension and get the feel you want.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Ha ha, how many of you have actually hit with Shroud?
    I have, first time about 5 year's ago, then about twice a year since, and last time, last summer.
    5 year's ago, Shroud was playing at the 4.0 level, about middle, using LESS THAN 30 lbs string tension.
    Guess what? 5 year's hence, Shroud is playing the middle 4.0 level, string tension at close to 80 lbs.
    Think about that, and tell me what's the big deal about string tension?
     
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  34. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    Its true d but there is something you left out. Racquet headsize has gone from 93" to 110" in those years and swing weight is much higher too. So sticks are more powerful these days. Thats the need for the higher tension. Technique is a bit different too.

    And i think i just need the stiffness. Its a part of things now.
     
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  35. topspn

    topspn Professional

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    At this point, I think it is best to consider filling in the tennis racquet with a plank of wood. Higher swing weight, stiff (or paddle) and will last you forever.
     
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  36. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    There IS one constant.
    The dude who beats ME, and Shroud, uses a 100 with around 50 lbs tension.
    Since I use stiff racket's and 35 lbs tension, and Shroud uses stiff rackets with 80 lbs tension, maybe we're both off kilter a bit, as the dude in the middle beats both of us.
     
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  37. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Shroud is much man
     
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  38. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, but I bet Shroud can't hit 125 MPH serves with his setup like you can.
     
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  39. BeyondTheTape

    BeyondTheTape New User

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    I need String recommendations. I am a chronic string-breaker. there. I said it. I am looking for a new string - Durable yet arm friendly.

    I have been playing a full bed of 16g Volkl syn gut at 54 lbs for the past year and a half. I once had arm issues using a hybrid of syn gut and poly. So I quit poly.

    Now I have decided to give poly another shot. full bed, soft technifibre poly which I have played for about 3 hours of use but I fear arm issues will return.

    Just from brief use of poly in comparison to my gut, It seems like I have traded off feel for spin. I definitely haven't developed a feel for poly yet and that is a concern.

    Any help would be great on a durable and arm friendly string to try~!
     
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  40. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    If you want arm friendly poly, you need to go read the ELT thread. At 30#, almost all polys are arm friendly since their TWU stiffness is probably in the SG range. You could try anything in 16 Ga between 25-35#. Only issue is the longevity of poly. I think they will last longer, maybe up to 20 hours, but after that you should still cut them out. I recommend 16 Ga rather 17 Ga because it will string up softer than 17 Ga at the same reference tension.

    If you do not like the idea of ELT, then keep the tension below 48# with 16 Mains and 45# with 18 mains. Longevity will be 12-16 hours, closer to 12 hours.
     
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  41. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You'd lose your bet.
    I'm down just below 100 now, and both Papa and Shroud can easily match that pace on their first flat serves, which both hardly ever use. I hit it all the time, so it actually can sometimes go in 50% of the time.
    Kinda like, Sampras and Fed can both UP their flat first serve speeds if they wanted to. Both hit with a bit of spin on their fast serves. Take out the spin, you lose consistency, but you can MPH, and you lose a bit of trickiness to return.
     
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  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You DO realize that I"m 68 now, don't you?
    I was claiming mid 120's serve speeds for a 28 year old LeeD, not a 68 year old LeeD. I'll bet most guys lose a whole lot more than 30 mph when they turn 68.
     
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  43. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    you had a radar gun handy? sorry, but there isn't much of a way I'm going to believe you were hitting 125 MPH 30 years ago or 100 now.
     
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  44. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    If full poly at 72lbs is too "powerful" for you I'd venture that's a problem with your swing not with the strings.
     
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  45. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Golden Gateway Tennis Center had a fast serve contest in 1978, part of the TransAmerica pro men's tourney hoopla.
    Lowell Barnhardt won the Amateur Division, 129, I was second. Gil Howard was third, considered the fastest server at Golden Gate Park. He hit flat serves almost every first serve, while I hit a lot of slices. Of course, in the serve contest, we all hit the flattist serves we could, but Lowell still hit a lot of topspin, and my doubles partner Dexter Lee also, who came in 5th at 125. Lowell borrowed a Yonex8500, as did Gil. Dexter and I had switched to it a few month previous.
    Colin Dibley won the pro division, 149, Victor Amaya at 144 was second.
    Dude, wake up. Age kills athletic performance more effectively than anything except catastrophic injury. Joe Montana, who never had a really strong arm, could only throw about 30 yards by the time he was 40 year's old. He could top 65 yards in his playing days. This was from his interview at age 41, just 5 year's after retireing.
    Look at Peyton Manning! At age 23, he could throw around 85 yards, not quite Elway or Jay Cutler material, but really good. At age 40, the farthest distance dropped to 50 yards, and NEVER in the last two year's of his playing career. That's ball travel only, not the distance covered by the receiver after he caught the ball.
    Look around you. How many 68 year old tennis players have a serve like the fastest of the 4.0 level of play? Probably one in 100.
     
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  46. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    sorry, the video I saw you couldn't top 45 MPH. more than that, you couldn't put two balls in the box. Father Time is tough, but he ain't that tough. I think this is a case of "the older I get, the better I was". I'm not saying I don't fall victim, but dang...let's keep it real.
     
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  47. Shroud

    Shroud Legend

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    You maybe right. I mean who doesnt need to improve the swing? But its not like i am playing stock and these sticks have pretty high swing weights. Anyhow here are two vids. Both feature kevlar strung at 86lbs with the bh vid having full kevlar and the forehand having nylon crosses iirc

    Green hat so let me know what i need to do with my swing to help make poly at 72 controllable



     
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  48. Ignatz Tushwop

    Ignatz Tushwop Rookie

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    You don't have a fast swing and you push alot.
    Maybe thats why you like to string high tensions for control.
     
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