Future Head Pro Endorsements

guilhermefdc

Semi-Pro
With best gen nearing its retirement, its inevitable that new players are going to endorse Head‘s lineup. Some are already there, but some aren’t as clear...

1. Prestige - Cilic has been there for ages, but doesn’t seems to be a particularly driver for sales
2. Gravity - Zverev (and maybe Barty on the PJ refresh?) - is a a given. Frame designed and created with his input, with sales reportedly going great, consistently top 10, slam finalist, masters winner... And then there’s Rublev which has top 10 and Masters potential.
3. Radical - one of the mysteries. Fritz seems to be next in line, but his top 10, Master 1000 and Grand Slam potential isn’t as clear as was Murray’s back when his contract started. Even retired Murray would probably sell more frames than Fritz.
4. Speed - Novak might even stick around after his retirement, perhaps with a Legend frame (maybe something based on his actual frame). His natural successor, though, seems to be Sinner (yeah, too soon, I know...). Another possibility should be to just say screw it to what players actually use and move Sinner to the Prestige or Radical lines and call it a day.
5. Extreme - Berretini seems perfect and there’s Musetti coming along. They’re all set here
6. Instinct - with Barty in the Gravity, I can only imagine Coco going blue sometime on the next few years,

These are my random thoughts based on absolutely nothing - what do you guys think? Specially regarding the Radical and Prestige lines - they seem to be kinda lost, endorsement wise...
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Speed: Anderescu, Martens, Coco, Sinner, Novak
Radical: Sloane, Garin, Schwartzman, Fritz, Murray
Extreme: Musetti, Berretini, Struff
Gravity: Barty, Zverev, maybe Rublev
Prestige: Cilic, Cuevas, Simon...all older and less visible, Popyrin, Koepfer
 

haqq777

Legend
Speed: Anderescu, Martens, Coco, Sinner, Novak
Radical: Sloane, Garin, Schwartzman, Fritz, Murray
Extreme: Musetti, Berretini, Struff
Gravity: Barty, Zverev, maybe Rublev
Prestige: Cilic, Cuevas, Simon...all older and less visible, Popyrin, Koepfer
Hmm. Future doesn't seem too bright for Instinct line seeing as you completely ignored to mention it ;) - seriously though, does it seem like it will get the axe? Getting so rare sighting an Instinct now.
 

BillKid

Hall of Fame
The instinct is the less iconic of oldest lines, best candidate for extinction.
I m more worried about Radical, not only because of lack of pro endorsement, but because the racquet has become so so.
 

uk_skippy

Hall of Fame
New Instinct line has just 3 rqt; MP, S, Lite; and the colour is more pastel/feminine that before
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
And the difference between the TGT and PT prefixes is basically that the TGT is a lighter version of the retail for customizing, while the PT is a custom layup for pros?
Correct.
TGK = Retail
TGT = Pro Stock
Both have same layup and made in same factory
PT = special layup, made in Austria
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Correct.
TGK = Retail
TGT = Pro Stock
Both have same layup and made in same factory
PT = special layup, made in Austria
Awesome, and one last question. I believe the .1/.2/.3 also indicate layup? How does that correlate with the PT vs TGT layup difference that you just described?

Thanks in advance for the info!
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Awesome, and one last question. I believe the .1/.2/.3 also indicate layup? How does that correlate with the PT vs TGT layup difference that you just described?

Thanks in advance for the info!
The PT ".x" designators do not follow any "prescribed rules" like TGK and TGT try to.
For example, the PT313.1 had the option for both Drill patterns, same with PT339.2. PT339.1 is a completely different layup.
PT313.1 was discontinued and replaced with the PT313.2, slightly altered layup (comes in both 18x20 - Garin and 16x19 - Kwon) versions
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
4. Speed - Novak might even stick around after his retirement, perhaps with a Legend frame (maybe something based on his actual frame). His natural successor, though, seems to be Sinner (yeah, too soon, I know...)
I see no problem with this statement.
 

cortado

Professional
Why? Are you going to swing a “proper” 360SW racket for 2 hours??
What is an amateur Joe Shmoe going to do with that racket???
It would be the same flop as Wilson Pro labs that sold limited quantities to us on this forum and no one else....
I'm not saying it needs 360SW. I have a 320g that is 325SW or something like that.
It's just weird that they have world number 1 playing a Radical, while their Radical line stagnates with no major pros using it.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
I'm not saying it needs 360SW. I have a 320g that is 325SW or something like that.
It's just weird that they have world number 1 playing a Radical, while their Radical line stagnates with no major pros using it.
Sloane, Garin, Schwartzman, Fritz, Murray, Podoroska among many others are "no major pros"???

Also, you are saying that Head should set up a completely new production line in Austria (high cost) to produce Novak's actual racket but not really because 320g and 325SW has nothing to do with his "proper" racket... and then sell it to 500 of us here?
You do realize that they (as well as all other successful racket companies) are in business of volume selling not 1000 pieces lines? They can do limited run like PT2.0 or what Wilson did with the Pro Labs but that is not bringing them any profits...
 
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cortado

Professional
Well Murray isn't using a Radical, Fritz is using one but not the currently available models (I think?).
What I mean to say is, they have this concept of 'Radical'. The current models are unlike the ones from last 20 years that everybody raves about. 1 player (Novak) is using an actual Radical, but an older version. But he endorses Speed which is totally different. But people buy it because it is associated with him. But they would also be able to play well with a 95 18x19 21mm beam 315-320g model similar to what he uses (but without all the lead etc).
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Is Novak even using a radical anymore? Isn’t PT 346.1 or whatever a custom mold and layup? Is it still at all similar to LM Radical or are we talking a different beast here?
 

bogdan101

Semi-Pro
Why? Are you going to swing a “proper” 360SW racket for 2 hours??
What is an amateur Joe Shmoe going to do with that racket???
It would be the same flop as Wilson Pro labs that sold limited quantities to us on this forum and no one else....
It's not a flop; Wilson is tapping into a specialized market and keeping it quiet, not to upstage their existing mass market products . Seems to work by the way models are going out of stock. Also let's not forget that Wilson has invented the concept of a real pro's stick when they came out with the RF97A, which seems to be selling pretty well. If Roger would have been under contract with Head, he would play with some PT custom pro stock masquerading as a Prestige or something...
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Head’s relative success with the PT2.0 merely underscores the fact that their client base is comprised primarily of middle aged nostalgic boomers like myself that remember when they were a small ’p’ prestige MIA company which has subsequently jumped the shark. Insulting competitors is an obvious sign of insecurity; Babolat and Yonex shills don’t appear to feel the need to do likewise, presumably as their stars remain ascendant.
 
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BillKid

Hall of Fame
That would be great if they could redesign an resuscitate the Radical line. Over the last few years, the hype has slightly shifted from « 300g thick beams very stiff » all the way to more control oriented tweeners. In this context there would be a lot of interest for a completely new radical, a bit like Babolat did with the PO7. Add an attractive young pro player endorsing that new frame and you will have a success story. Forget Tomic and the Graphene Radical.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Head’s relative success with the PT2.0 merely underscores the fact that their client base is comprised primarily of middle aged nostalgic boomers like myself that remember when they were a small ’p’ prestige MIA company which has subsequently jumped the shark. Insulting competitors is an obvious sign of insecurity; Babolat and Yonex shills don’t appear to feel the need to do likewise, presumably as their stars remain ascendant.
Hmm, when did Head insult competitors??
 
That would be great if they could redesign an resuscitate the Radical line. Over the last few years, the hype has slightly shifted from « 300g thick beams very stiff » all the way to more control oriented tweeners. In this context there would be a lot of interest for a completely new radical, a bit like Babolat did with the PO7. Add an attractive young pro player endorsing that new frame and you will have a success story. Forget Tomic and the Graphene Radical.
Who would you like to see as the face of a rebooted radical?
 

Alexh22

Professional
What s the point ? Those players they signed paintjob contract with never were able to promote the lines they use.
Do you actually believe Djokovic used speed for 10 years , sounds about right? LOL.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
What s the point ? Those players they signed paintjob contract with never were able to promote the lines they use.
Do you actually believe Djokovic used speed for 10 years , sounds about right? LOL.
Do you believe that Tsitsi, Raonic, K Kachanov, Monfils, Agut, etc use V7 Blades, Ultras and PSs??
Do you actually believe that Wilson released the H22 as Blade Pro LOL??
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
Imo, from the current Head line-up, the Extreme Tour is the closest in feel and performance to the Prince TT100 290g.
That being said, the new Radical MP might be an even better fit (haven't tried it yet), based on specs.

If I was a Head executive, I'd push for one of those as they both make sense given her game style (attacking AND spin friendly).
 

Lavs

Hall of Fame
Head has big prospects. Italian Band - Sinner, Musetti, Berretini plus Rus/Ex Rus - Rublev, Zverev..
They do a great job.
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Imo, from the current Head line-up, the Extreme Tour is the closest in feel and performance to the Prince TT100 290g.
That being said, the new Radical MP might be an even better fit (haven't tried it yet), based on specs.

If I was a Head executive, I'd push for one of those as they both make sense given her game style (attacking AND spin friendly).
Extreme already has Musetti, Berrettini, and Davidovich and Speed has Sinner, Andreescu, and Coco. I think her all-court style would fit Radical marketing very well. There's also no real newbie with potential endorsing Radical.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Extreme already has Musetti, Berrettini, and Davidovich and Speed has Sinner, Andreescu, and Coco. I think her all-court style would fit Radical marketing very well. There's also no real newbie with potential endorsing Radical.
Schwartzman, Garin, Kwon, Fritz, Murray, Stephens, Podoroska...

We will see if some fresh faces will be endorsing Radical
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Schwartzman, Garin, Kwon, Fritz, Murray, Stephens, Podoroska...
Are those real up and comers though? I don't see Schwartzman winning a major and he's the best of the guys you listed. And I don't really see any of the women on your list blowing up like Andreescu and Coco are. Podoroska is a great player, but who knows how she'll do in the future. Sloane hasn't really been having the best results of her career.

Idk, I see Swiatek as an Andreescu level talent who could carry a line for a few years. Radical is lacking that right now. To be fair, Extreme lineup isn't much better than the Radical lineup, but the Extreme has never had a singles slam winner endorse it, as far as I remember(?)
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Are those real up and comers though? I don't see Schwartzman winning a major and he's the best of the guys you listed. And I don't really see any of the women on your list blowing up like Andreescu and Coco are. Podoroska is a great player, but who knows how she'll do in the future. Sloane hasn't really been having the best results of her career.

Idk, I see Swiatek as an Andreescu level talent who could carry a line for a few years. Radical is lacking that right now. To be fair, Extreme lineup isn't much better than the Radical lineup, but the Extreme has never had a singles slam winner endorse it, as far as I remember(?)
I don't think Swiatek is coming to Head...
Extreme line has no female Pro users though...except the good ole Kuzi!
 
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SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
Just to ask a question from earlier, does Djokovic still use the liquidmetal radical, or has it been so customized it’s not recognizable? Does it still have the liquidmetal ridges, or is it just the mold of the radical tour?
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
I do imagine. Pure Strike or PD VS would suite her.
As to HEAD, she would be more than happy with Extreme MP
If Davidovich can get a custom PT layup, a GS champ probably can as well. Feel like they will focus on their own promotional needs and just give her a custom layup.
 

El_Yotamo

Hall of Fame
Just to ask a question from earlier, does Djokovic still use the liquidmetal radical, or has it been so customized it’s not recognizable? Does it still have the liquidmetal ridges, or is it just the mold of the radical tour?
The mold is TK346 which is basically TK113 (i.Radical mold) but with a slightly modded grommet channel. So not LM Rad mold hence ofc no ridges. The layup is PT346.1 which just replaced the PT113B he was using before at some point during the G360 times (so like 1.5-2 years ago). According to reputable posters who've used it, the closest retail racquet in feel to this custom mold+layup combo is the FXP Radical MP (which I personally have and like a lot), and also iirc Mahut's H22 (61 RA, 18x20) is supposedly very similar in playability.

The last time Djokovic was using a LM Rad was in 2005 I think. Then he was with wilson with the H22 through 2008, then PT113B 2009-2018(/19 not sure), and now PT346.1

@dr325i pls correct any mistakes I may have made
 

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
The mold is TK346 which is basically TK113 (i.Radical mold) but with a slightly modded grommet channel. So not LM Rad mold hence ofc no ridges. The layup is PT346.1 which just replaced the PT113B he was using before at some point during the G360 times (so like 1.5-2 years ago). According to reputable posters who've used it, the closest retail racquet in feel to this custom mold+layup combo is the FXP Radical MP (which I personally have and like a lot), and also iirc Mahut's H22 (61 RA, 18x20) is supposedly very similar in playability.

The last time Djokovic was using a LM Rad was in 2005 I think. Then he was with wilson with the H22 through 2008, then PT113B 2009-2018(/19 not sure), and now PT346.1

@dr325i pls correct any mistakes I may have made
And this is why nobody understands the Head pro stock codes lol, it feels like I accidentally found a coded military message.
 
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El_Yotamo

Hall of Fame
And this is why nobody understands the head pro stock codes lol, it feels like I accidentally found a coded military message.
Believe me, being a Head outsider I agree completely and def see where you're coming from. Took me a while to remember how the whole system works believe me...
And ofc I don't remember all the codes, but I remember some and that goes a long way in understanding the system as a whole too.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
The mold is TK346 which is basically TK113 (i.Radical mold) but with a slightly modded grommet channel. So not LM Rad mold hence ofc no ridges. The layup is PT346.1 which just replaced the PT113B he was using before at some point during the G360 times (so like 1.5-2 years ago). According to reputable posters who've used it, the closest retail racquet in feel to this custom mold+layup combo is the FXP Radical MP (which I personally have and like a lot), and also iirc Mahut's H22 (61 RA, 18x20) is supposedly very similar in playability.

The last time Djokovic was using a LM Rad was in 2005 I think. Then he was with wilson with the H22 through 2008, then PT113B 2009-2018(/19 not sure), and now PT346.1

@dr325i pls correct any mistakes I may have made
All looks good. Small addition is the TK113 layup was PT113B1 and PT113B2 -- they changed from 1 to 2 toward the end, minimal changes (similar to let's say PT313.1 (discontinued), to PT313.2 (slight layup changes)).
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Learned something new. I thought PT113 was a custom mold, did not know it was the i.Radical. Is the grommet channel modded to accomodate the 18x19 drill pattern?
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Learned something new. I thought PT113 was a custom mold, did not know it was the i.Radical. Is the grommet channel modded to accomodate the 18x19 drill pattern?
It is NOT the I.Radical mold, very similar, not identical. The i.Radical is the TK113A mold, this one is TK113B
No need to modify grommet channel to accommodate different drill pattern. They can drill any pattern necessary
 
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