Future new Wimbledon winners will be some of the weakest ever

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
RaoMug , Tsitsipas and Zverev can all win.

If Djokovic can win 4 wimbledon titles with his core baseline game , serving well and hitting deep - why cannot Zverev do the same ?
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
Literally 6 years between non Big 4 players even contesting the final between 2010 and 2016
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
Crazy how good that list is. It’s basically uninterrupted excellence, dominated by Federer, Djokovic, and Sampras for the last three decades.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.

I don't even think Kodes was particularly muggy - a double FO champ and twice a USO runner-up when it was played on grass (losing in a 5th set to Newcombe in 1973).
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
giphy.gif

Well plenty of mugs post 1995 until Federe arrived, so preposterous to say those who follow will be mugs. Given how well older players have done at Wimbledon the first NextGen with enough form to pull off a title could easily end up with three or more putting them well up the list:
Roger Federer (SUI) 8 0 8 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2017
Pete Sampras (USA) 7 0 7 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000
Björn Borg (SWE) 5 0 5 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980
Rod Laver (AUS) 2 2 4 1961, 1962, 1968, 1969
Novak Djokovic (SRB) 4 0 4 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018
John Newcombe (AUS) 2 1 3 1967, 1970, 1971
John McEnroe (USA) 3 0 3 1981, 1983, 1984
Boris Becker (GER) 3 0 3 1985, 1986, 1989

Stupid thread title, but it is an interesting subject because of the threat of some new player hoovering up a bunch of tiles if they break through. Future NextGenish Wimby winners (in no order):
1. Zverev (slam stamina least important at Wimbledon)
2. Tsitsipas (skeptical of his return game, but he did well last year his first time)
3. Medvedev (my favorite younger player by far for this year)
4. Auger-Aliassime (skipped grass last year for clay, so probably will take him a while to be a threat)
5. Shapo (weaker serve than Tsits, but maybe greater return - doubt he'll do it)
6. deMinaur (Hewitt's charge focused on grass last year and too early to dismiss his chances given his already high ranking)
7. Tiafoe (great, great touch and fast, a favorite young player of Evert and McEnroe on grass)
8. Kyrgios (if healthy hard to call the guy a mug given his reputation against the top players)
9. Coric (won Halle last year and might stop choking for long enough to break through)

The natural course over the last few years would be the mind numbing geriatric trend and we have these guys who might snag one if the big 4 drop off:
1. Anderson (really old)
2. Isner (scary)
3. Nishikori (if Kei had just a bit more serve he could be dangerous enough on grass if injury doesn't derail him)
4. Cilic (maybe the strongest of this group)
5. Delpo (same age as Cilic)
6. Raonic (believe he's washed up, but still of age and former finalist)

Right now Federe and Djoko clear faves this year and then I'd rate Nadal, Cilic, Medvedev, and maybe Tsitsipas as your 2nd tier of contenders. If Shapo removed his head from his derrier like he did in his last few matches in Miami he might surprise this year, but that is a real dark horse. One of these younger players picks off Federe or Djoko early then that opens up everything especially if some of the other top contenders go down then even a player like Thiem could vulture the title.
 
It's not that. He just wasn't an amazing player. Built for grass yes but at least 2 of his finals runs weren't too strong.

He beat Lendl, Edberg, and Sampras in 1992, so that was a pretty good final run.
He beat Becker in 1994, so that's not too bad, especially if you add in Forget.
He beat Krajicek, who was also a former champion, in 1998.

His draw in 2001 was admittedly pretty good.

But he also made the semis in 1990, where he served for a two-set lead against Becker, and 1995, where he took Sampras to five sets.

All in all, I don't think any four-time finalist can be regarded as an especially weak winner. If anything, he should have won more than once, not less.
 
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MS_07

Semi-Pro
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.


And why d-joker/dull not in weak list ?
Any skill they have on grass is fitness . Otherwise they're greatly helped by the lack of grass / clay behaviour of courts in second week .
 

Checkmate

Legend
And why d-joker/dull not in weak list ?
Any skill they have on grass is fitness . Otherwise they're greatly helped by the lack of grass / clay behaviour of courts in second week .

Disagree with you, here.

I think Djokovic has movement to cause real damage on grass.

His ROS, when in zone, becomes a game-changer.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Literally 6 years between non Big 4 players even contesting the final between 2010 and 2016

Between 2010 and 2016 there were just 2 non-Big 4 finalists: Berdych and Raonic. 2017-2018 there were 2 more: Cilic and Anderson.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Tsitsipas, Shapovalov or Felix would be fine champions.

And let's be honest, Krajicek, Hewitt and Ivanisevic weren't exactly all-timers.

Tsits return sux, no?
Shaps return sux too.
FAA too early to tell.

Ivanisevic made four finals, some mug lol.

Krajicek's level was super high for a one-time champ, his trolling of Sampras was legendary epic.

Hewitt played un-grasslike but still pretty good, like Murray 2013.
 

thrust

Legend
Tsitsipas, Shapovalov or Felix would be fine champions.

And let's be honest, Krajicek, Hewitt and Ivanisevic weren't exactly all-timers.
Fact IS though Krajicek,, Hewitt and Goran were far superior GRASS court players than todays youngsters you mention.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
...

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
Re the bold I have to disagree. Hewitt was beating Pistol Pete and grass-court specialist Henman (amongst others) prior to the grass slowing down in 2002, winning many tournaments on the surface. He even said many times he liked playing on the surface as it suited his game. Lets not forget, even when he was all washed up and a shell of his best, he bested Federer on grass as well (at Halle IIRC). Pretty much agree with everything else though.
 
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van_Loederen

Professional
that grass court tennis is bound to go downhill after Feder's decline is clear to everyone.
the hole the other big 4 are about to leave, is also unlikely to be filled completely, but on grass the situation looks particularly dire indeed.

Aulassime we should ignore for now, also because he might directly be too young to change the situation.

since tennis has changed, even quite some of the other young guns are also still young enough for bigger improvements,
but yeah, it already seems to go more into the direction of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Shapo looks to me like he could still improve his return and become a force on grass.
(Minaur is probably too short. even Hewitt himself would be less likely to make Wimbly finals nowadays, if his age.)
Kyrgios definitely looks like he could at least match Krajicek one day, maybe even Ivanisevic.
Medvdv's ceiling is hard to estimate. he has no real weakness (stamina less important on grass), but no big strength either (yet). if he improves in every department only a bit, he could become very dangerous. it's not a given that he can do however, especially when it come to movement.

for today conditions also Coric is still a young player, who could still improve quite a lot. to me he however never looked so promising in the first place. he toppled a stumbling tired Feder on a field and his movement is more suited for hardcourts, i think.

Tsitsi is only 1 year older than Shapo. on grass he looks neither flesh nor fish. perhaps he can make up a lot with smart play and mental strength, and may also be able to still improve his serve a bit. i wouldn't even be surprised if he ended up as the one-eyed grass king among the blind, but i doubt he can reach a real high level.
 

Enceladus

Legend
And why d-joker/dull not in weak list ?
Any skill they have on grass is fitness . Otherwise they're greatly helped by the lack of grass / clay behaviour of courts in second week .
Multi Champions don't belong to the list of weak winners, because they have proved their qualities by repeated victories.
Djoker has improved service over the years, improved service help him to gain last 2 out of his 4 Wimbledon titles.
Movement, ROS, ball redirection, these and other abilities Djoker can applied on the grass. Djoker reminds Connors a little, Jimmy was also successful on the grass thanks to his strong ROS.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Fact IS though Krajicek,, Hewitt and Goran were far superior GRASS court players than todays youngsters you mention.
On traditional fast, slick, low bouncing grass pre-2003. But when Nadal and Djokovic are both multi-Wimbledon champs, the slow grass has made baseliners the real deal on the surface.
 
On traditional fast, slick, low bouncing grass pre-2003. But when Nadal and Djokovic are both multi-Wimbledon champs, the slow grass has made baseliners the real deal on the surface.

For sure, but today youngsters arent even close to the caliber of Nadal and Djokovic either on any surface (except for Nadal indoors if that even counts). Not yet anyway.
 

Purplemonster

Hall of Fame
Multi Champions don't belong to the list of weak winners, because they have proved their qualities by repeated victories.
Djoker has improved service over the years, improved service help him to gain last 2 out of his 4 Wimbledon titles.
Movement, ROS, ball redirection, these and other abilities Djoker can applied on the grass. Djoker reminds Connors a little, Jimmy was also successful on the grass thanks to his strong ROS.

And Djokovic’s overhead is perfect for Wimbledon
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Who will replace Djokovic as the king of Plexicushion?
In RG, the throne of Nadal will be taken by the Austrian Thiem in the short term and he can dominate.
At Wimbledon, unless Kyrgios is interested in taking the thing seriously and improving his service return, there is a big void.
In the US Open, perhaps the most "democratic" of the 4 majors, at least in the last decade, there are a good number of candidates that can alternate, without being dominant, the list of champions.
 

Luka888

Professional
Djokr of Fedr. Don't even talk about youngsters. Maybe one day when these 2 giants are gone :whistle:. All 'youngsters' are pretty much clueless. Sorry guys.
 

deaner2211

Semi-Pro
...because none of the younger gens is built for grass, except Kyrgios who is too much of a bot. In fact, the best result for anyone younger than Botnic is a single SF (2014 Dimitrov).

List of Open era Wimbledon finals:

1968 Laver def Roche
1969 Laver def Newcombe
1970 Newcombe def Rosewall
1971 Newcombe def Smith
1972 Smith def Nastase
1973 Kodes def Metreveli (weak Wimbledon - boycotted by top players, 14th seed Kodes ended up 2nd seed)
1974 Connors def Rosewall
1975 Ashe def Connors
1976 Borg def Nastase
1977 Borg def Connors
1978 Borg def Connors
1979 Borg def Tanner
1980 Borg def McEnroe
1981 McEnroe def Borg
1982 Connors def McEnroe
1983 McEnroe def Lewis (weakest ever finalist)
1984 McEnroe def Connors
1985 Becker def Curren
1986 Becker def Lendl
1987 Cash def Lendl
1988 Edberg def Becker
1989 Becker def Edberg
1990 Edberg def Becker
1991 Stich def Becker
1992 Agassi def Ivanisevic
1993 Sampras def Courier
1994 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1995 Sampras def Becker
1996 Krajicek def Washington (very weak finalist)
1997 Sampras def Pioline
1998 Sampras def Ivanisevic
1999 Sampras def Agassi
2000 Sampras def Rafter
2001 Ivanisevic def Rafter
2002 Hewitt def Nalbandian (very weak finalist for grass)
2003 Federer def Philippoussis
2004 Federer def Roddick
2005 Federer def Roddick
2006 Federer def Nadal
2007 Federer def Nadal
2008 Nadal def Federer
2009 Federer def Roddick
2010 Nadal def Berdych
2011 Djokovic def Nadal
2012 Federer def Murray
2013 Murray def Djokovic
2014 Djokovic def Federer
2015 Djokovic def Federer
2016 Murray def Raonic
2017 Federer def Cilic
2018 Djokovic def Anderson

No mugs can be found barring 1973. Single-time winners/finalists Ashe, Cash, Stich, Krajicek were all known for a great attacking peak level; Hewitt was the 'un-grassy' winner but he displayed an excellent level as well (and showed some good stuff in 04-05 losing both to Federer until multiple surgeries took away his speed). You bet whoever wins it after the Big 4 reign (16 years and counting!) stops won't be that great.
Every match from 2002 on was weak due to the grass change. These days Wimbledon barely plays faster than the USO.
 
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