Gamma ELS or Wise

MasterTS

Professional
I have a Gamma 6004 with Wise Tensioner. Got it in 2007 and used it till around 2012.. Then took a break from tennis for a while. I'm getting back into tennis and need a stringing machine again. The Gamma 6004 is pretty large and takes up a lot of space so I want to get a table version. I'm sending the wise back for them to calicbrate and replace the circuit board for the latest one. Then I will either use the Wise, or sell it to get a new stringer.

The wise seems to take a few seconds to pull tension while it looks like the Gamma ELS pulls much faster, from what I can tell in the youtube videos. I think I can sell the 6004 and Wise and get a new setup, maybe pay a lil extra?

Which is a better setup:

1.) Gamma X-ESL
2.) Gamma Progression II w/ my Current Wise Tensioner
3.) Keep my current: 6004 w/ Wise Tensioner.. The clamps are a bit old and I might need to clean it out or buy new clamps.. they seem expensive.


Also, are the clamps on the 6004 much better then on the X-ELS and the Progression II?
 

badmice2

Professional
Opt 3. Cost you less to get new clamps and you get the same benefit as you would with the Other suggested setup. If you’re going to upgrade you would want to move up to XLT at a minimum or 7900/Alpha Ghost level.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
You could also ask @Gamma Tech if you could remove the machine from the base. If you have a metal sleeve of the right diameter, you could convert your upright to a tabletop or cart top.
 

struggle

Legend
Also, are the clamps on the 6004 much better then on the X-ELS and the Progression II?
Yes, the current base clamps are much better.

Opt 3. Cost you less to get new clamps and you get the same benefit as you would with the Other suggested setup. If you’re going to upgrade you would want to move up to XLT at a minimum or 7900/Alpha Ghost level.

The current 6004 base clamps are also much better than those on the 7900.
 
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struggle

Legend
Okay, so the best option would be to keep my 6004, get my wise calibrated, and then buy these: https://www.gammasports.com/4-Tooth-Universal-String-Clamp since the current clamps are a bit dirty and I cant seem to get it cleaned.. They cause some bite/damage into into the strings sometimes.

Maybe, if needed but i'd try to get them cleaned first. Which base clamps do you have on your 6004? I bought mine 2012 or so and it has the nicer "switch action" base clamps compared to the lesser Gamma base clamps which for some reason are still used on the 7900.
 

MasterTS

Professional
This is the base and clamp. Gonna try to clean it better. Is this the nice base? Is this the nice clamp? It looks like theres 5 teeth.. The nice 4 teeth universal one has 4 teeth?

Actually the stock picture of the 6004 shows 5 teeth..

9b59c6b2c34d164d4a1f26b363f09580.jpg


b6bbc0a366a4c2ea66064ad4cdc5b9df.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
Is this the clamp on my 6004: https://www.gammasports.com/4-Tooth-Universal-String-Clamp

And is this the clamp on the Progression ESL and X-ESL: https://www.gammasports.com/Thin-Profile-Fixed-Clamp

WHy is the XTL better then the X-ESL?
I have the X-ELS. It's an awesome machine. I have it on a little Harbor Freight service cart and put it in the closet when I'm done. The machine is fast and consistent. I've had no slippage on the clamps.
I can't speak about your other options, but I can recommend this machine.
 

struggle

Legend
This is the base and clamp. Gonna try to clean it better. Is this the nice base? Is this the nice clamp? It looks like theres 5 teeth.. The nice 4 teeth universal one has 4 teeth?

Actually the stock picture of the 6004 shows 5 teeth..

9b59c6b2c34d164d4a1f26b363f09580.jpg


b6bbc0a366a4c2ea66064ad4cdc5b9df.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd just clean them up and use them. I mean, how many string jobs did you do in 5 years? Should work just fine, I'd think.
90% isopropyl alcohol. You use a shoe string soaked and run through clamp (slightly clamped down works well for me).
Maybe a toothbrush.
You CAN take them apart easily to clean all the parts individually.
Good base clamps too.

My Bases are the same/similar, but my clamps are the newer 5 tooth, i guess... Those look fine, unless they are worn out and that
seems unlikely.
 

JEDI MASTER

Professional
just clean them.. a little wire brush and degreaser works just fine.

but if you really want new clamps.. those Gamma Clamps are pricey.. $124 each x 2.. :rolleyes:

i purchased new clamps for my Gamma Progression II and Wise Tensioner from Pros Pro for around $30each.
i forget which model i got but you email them to make sure they fit..

 

Wes

Hall of Fame
I have a Gamma 6004 with Wise Tensioner. Got it in 2007 and used it till around 2012.. Then took a break from tennis for a while. I'm getting back into tennis and need a stringing machine again. The Gamma 6004 is pretty large and takes up a lot of space so I want to get a table version. I'm sending the wise back for them to calicbrate and replace the circuit board for the latest one. Then I will either use the Wise, or sell it to get a new stringer.

The wise seems to take a few seconds to pull tension while it looks like the Gamma ELS pulls much faster, from what I can tell in the youtube videos. I think I can sell the 6004 and Wise and get a new setup, maybe pay a lil extra?
There's actually a good reason for that, which I won't really get into here. Dan explained that they actually could program the Wise to pull faster. The (slowish) pulling speeds are intentional - not the result of a limitation of the machine.

You're probably already aware of this, but, the Wise has 3 pulling speeds.
Presuming that you're aware of that (and that you've tried out all 3 settings), you may find it interesting that the reality is, according to Dan, that the pulling speed is actually the same for all 3 settings (1, 2 and 3) except for the last 20% of the pull.
So, you may have noticed that changing the speed doesn't dramatically change the time for one pull to be made.

Personally, I always leave mine set to the slowest speed (in order to reduce "shocking" the string - and to be as gentle as possilbe on all strings, regardless of type).
The time interval doesn't bother me at all - and here's why.
I don't just sit there idle, waiting for the tensioner to stop moving, so that I can then reposition the clamp. The reason the interval is a non-issue for me (and that using the slowest speed is also a non-issue) is that I install all strings "one ahead" - not just when doing the crosses. So, that means I'm lacing the next main string while the tension head is pulling the previous string. By the time I have the next main threaded, the tensioner has stopped and I can immediately move the clamp. So, basically, no down time.
On occasion, I might have to wait for a quick moment to hear the beep, but that's an infrequent occurrence.

See 6:30-9:00 here...

Which is a better setup:

1.) Gamma X-ESL
2.) Gamma Progression II w/ my Current Wise Tensioner
3.) Keep my current: 6004 w/ Wise Tensioner.. The clamps are a bit old and I might need to clean it out or buy new clamps.. they seem expensive.
#3 - keep the 6004 It has much better base clamps.

Also, are the clamps on the 6004 much better then on the X-ELS and the Progression II?
Yes! The 6004 has the better ("Switch Action Cam-Lock") base clamps - which also came stock on the Gamma 8800.
The Prog. ST II, X-ELS, XLT, and even the 7900, all come with the same (lower level) "Quick Action" base clamps.

Opt 3. Cost you less to get new clamps and you get the same benefit as you would with the Other suggested setup. If you’re going to upgrade you would want to move up to XLT at a minimum or 7900/Alpha Ghost level.
I disagree that the XLT or 7900 would be an upgrade from a 6004+Wise.
However, the Ghost II would be an upgrade.

When you really look at what you're getting with the XLT - very little bang for your buck.
Regarding why I think the XLT is a really poor choice (at it's retail price point), see my detailed thoughts here...

You could also ask @Gamma Tech if you could remove the machine from the base. If you have a metal sleeve of the right diameter, you could convert your upright to a tabletop or cart top.
That may, indeed, be a viable/appealing option for @MasterTS.

No.
You have the older (blocky shaped) metal 5-tooth clamps. Same ones that originally came on my 6004 as well.

And is this the clamp on the Progression ESL and X-ESL: https://www.gammasports.com/Thin-Profile-Fixed-Clamp
No.
The Prog. ELS and X-ELS (and Prog. 602FC and X6-FC) come with slim profile "universal" 5-tooth metal clamps (very similar to the metal 4-tooth clamps in your link above).
These are the same clamps that I now use on my machine. I highly recommend them. ;)
A few months ago, they were $99 each.

Those black composite 5-tooth clamps also (for a period) came stock on the Prog. 602FC and X6-FC machines, but those were phased out and replaced with the much nicer "universal" 5-tooth metal clamps.
The black composite 5-tooth clamps no longer comes stock on any of Gamma's machines.

So, at this point, it's basically just being sold as a replacement clamp.
Don't even consider those composite clamps. They're just about as "blocky" as your current (older) metal clamps.

I put a bunch of info./photos/video in the following thread. I think you'll find this very helpful.

WHy is the XTL better then the X-ESL?
In my opinion, the only thing better on the XLT, over the X-ELS, is that is has the nicer linear gripper (and, of course, diabolo).
However, you essentially have that already with your Wise (unless yours is very old).

Yes, the current base clamps are much better.

The current 6004 base clamps are also much better than those on the 7900.
@struggle and I are in full agreement of this (as evidenced by the number of times each of us has echoed these statements).
We both have expressed how important nice base clamps are - for us.

Okay, so the best option would be to keep my 6004...
In my opinion, yes!
get my wise calibrated...
If you want, you can actually do the calibration yourself.

I know you also mentioned getting the circuit board replaced too, so that's obviously a different matter.

If possible, I'd really try to find some of the slim profile "universal" 5-tooth metal clamps - especially if you can still find them for $99ea.
 

MasterTS

Professional
If possible, I'd really try to find some of the slim profile "universal" 5-tooth metal clamps - especially if you can still find them for $99ea.

Something like these? gamma-die-cast-aluminum-universal-fixed-clamp-66342

ff12598f463ba4ebb55aa9fa2c29dc7a.jpg



Wow u know your stringers! Thanks, will take some time to digest all this !

Just checked out your clamp comparison youtube. Good stuff ;)


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MasterTS

Professional
I cant seem to find the 5 tooth universal slim profiles anywhere.. I see them in some places that appear kinda shady, but no reputable place. Gamma's US site doesnt even show them but their Euro site does... strange.

Where did you see it for $99 recently?
 
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Wes

Hall of Fame
I cant seem to find the 5 tooth universal slim profiles anywhere.. I see them in some places that appear kinda shady, but no reputable place. Gamma's US site doesnt even show them but their Euro site does... strange.

Where did you see it for $99 recently?

I believe it was directly from Gamma, but ask @djNEiGht for confirmation. He was the one who posted the photos in the other thread (I'm not sure why none of his photos are showing now) and he did end up buying them.

BTW, I wouldn't go solely off what is/isn't displayed on Gamma's site.
I'd call them to get some accurate information.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I cant seem to find the 5 tooth universal slim profiles anywhere.. I see them in some places that appear kinda shady, but no reputable place. Gamma's US site doesnt even show them but their Euro site does... strange.

Where did you see it for $99 recently?

EDIT: There is both a 4 tooth and 5 tooth clamp listed on the link I suggested. The 4 tooth (Badminton) pops up first just select the 5 tooth (Tennis) if that’s what you want.
 
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MasterTS

Professional

EDIT: There is both a 4 tooth and 5 tooth clamp listed on the link I suggested. The 4 tooth (Badminton) pops up first just select the 5 tooth (Tennis) if that’s what you want.

AHhh That was it.. its hidden.. I think I will get those 5 tooth die cast clamps... Wonder why the other "4 tooth universals clamps" are so expensive compared to these.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
AHhh That was it.. its hidden.. I think I will get those 5 tooth die cast clamps... Wonder why the other "4 tooth universals clamps" are so expensive compared to these.
My guess is they are better clamps. My Star 5 has 3 teeth and I’d hate to have to buy any. I think I’d send them off to Tennis Machines and have them Reconditioned before I’d buy a new clamp if there are any available.
 
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