Gamma Progression 200 vs Klippermate

C

clxtennis

Rookie
Hello everyone.

I already have a stringing machine but need something that is smaller and portable as a secondary stringer (to take with me on trips).

I'm leaning towards the Gamma Progression 200 because of the price (including shipping, etc). I don't stand to make any money off stringing on this machine, I'm a high school coach and I will be purchasing this (with my own money) so my players can learn on it and use it for their own use. Need to buy one soon so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I know some have suggested looking at previous threads, but I haven't found anything that really addressed the questions I have.

1) I will be teaching people how to string with the machine I buy, so which is more beginner friendly?

2) I understand the klipper has superior build quality, but how's the build quality on the Gamma? Since it's a different design than the x2, I assume there is a difference?

3) How portable is the Gamma Progression 200? The Klippermate seems ridiculously portable.

4) How's the rest of the hardware? Clamps? Tension rod? Etc?

5) Are there any regrets to anticipate from either?

Thank you all in advance for any help.
 
I was debating this also about a year ago although instead of the progression 200 it was the x2 by gamma (virtually the same but x2 is nicer in my opinion not as plasticy, all metal base and comes with built in toolbox). Anyways i decided to go with the x-2 after hours of research and really enjoy it. I was a highschool sophmore when first learned to string and if your going to be teaching your players, you first should learn how to do it as it is much easier to teach and for them to learn by demonstration. I had to read at least 10 hours about stringing and watching at least that much from instructional videos on youtube, mainly by YUlitle which helped me invaluably. My advice would be to go with the x-2 or progression 200 whichever as I know the progression is just a bit cheaper on some sites but not by much at all. The x-2 as well as the progression 200 are also extremely portable; you should have no problems moving often and taking it places as I myself do it all the time and it's one of the great things about this machine. No regrets at all with buying my x-2 and was a great investment. The racheting clutch system on the x-2/progression 200 is extremely convenient also. The clamps that come with the x-2 and progression 200 are the same and this is the biggest thing people complain about with the machine. The clamps have quite sharp edges on the handle that many have gotten cut on while clamping strings, as I have also done this. The solution I decided to take after reading about it on these forums was to wrap it with electrical tape and has worked magnificintly for me; not one incident since. Other than that, just be patient, do a quality job and it will prob take you 2 hours or more to get first string job completed. Quality over speed and if you have any questions the people on this forum are incredibly helpful and knowledgable and will be glad to assist you.

Heres some helpful links for further reading.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=213813&highlight=klippermate

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=201408&highlight=klippermate

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=190359&highlight=klippermate
 
I can't comment on the usage of the gamma machines other than to say gamma makes good machines. But I was doing the same research a few months ago and I bought a klippermate. The determining factor was that my buddy had one and he showed me how to use it. Another friend of mine bought a gamma x-2, and we discussed the differences and I went with the klippermate. Differences that were really inconsequential. The best way to decide is test each one yourself, if that's possible. But I guarantee you, from my research you can't go wrong with either.
 
I've use a Klippermate and I've used Gamma stringers that are dropweight (but not the model the OP is considering)...

I am more partial to the gamma style gripper than the Klipper style gripper.

Also when adjusting the mount that supports the racquet, I prefer the recessed hex key fasteners that Gamma uses over Klippers wing nuts.

my $.02
 
taylorhorton4 said:
I was debating this also about a year ago although instead of the progression 200 it was the x2 by gamma (virtually the same but x2 is nicer in my opinion not as plasticy, all metal base and comes with built in toolbox).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great info.

So the Progression is a little sturdier than the x2?

I like the fact that the Klippermate can fit into a box. Can the Gamma be folded like the Klippermate?

Thanks for everyone's help so far. Any other info would be greatly appreciated.
 
No I think the x-2 seems far more sturdier than the progression. The base is all metal on the x-2 rather than plastic of the progression. And no the x-2 cannot fold it but is quite compact already. Although I am not familiar with the folding action of the Klipper, i can tell you that they are virtually the same size when not folded. And again the ratcheting clutch that the x-2 flaunts is a must have in my opinion.
 
taylorhorton4 said:
No I think the x-2 seems far more sturdier than the progression. The base is all metal on the x-2 rather than plastic of the progression. And no the x-2 cannot fold it but is quite compact already. Although I am not familiar with the folding action of the Klipper, i can tell you that they are virtually the same size when not folded. And again the ratcheting clutch that the x-2 flaunts is a must have in my opinion.
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Thank again. The Progression doesn't have a ratcheting clutch?
 
taylorhorton4 said:
No I think the x-2 seems far more sturdier than the progression. The base is all metal on the x-2 rather than plastic of the progression. And no the x-2 cannot fold it but is quite compact already. Although I am not familiar with the folding action of the Klipper, i can tell you that they are virtually the same size when not folded. And again the ratcheting clutch that the x-2 flaunts is a must have in my opinion.
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After I asked this question, I thought I knew what a ratcheting clutch was. I'm not to sure what that means.

Sorry, I don't really know much about drop-weight machines.
 
The progession as well as the x-2 has a ratcheting clutch, whereas the Klipper does not. A racheting clutch means that when you wrap the string around the tensioner and pull it to desired tension, the way you get it to that exact weight is to make the tension rod parallel with the ground. With a ratcheting clutch tensioner you can drop the rod to pull tension and if the bar is lower than parallel, which it almost always is, you can hold the tensioner with your left hand firmly and push the rod up to pull additional tension to make the rod parallel and the correct tension is pullled. With the Klipper its like a trial and error thing.

Heres a video demonstrating stringing on the x2(same ratcheting feature as the progression 200). Also a good helpful beginners refrence video. You skip ahead to 3 minutes in the video if you just want a demonstration of the clutch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktxcs5dUoE8

And here is a video demonstrating pulling tension on a Klippermate. Notice how there is no clutch so he has to keep adjusting the strings in a trial and error manner to try and get the exact target tension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIo_bRLljMI
 
both the X-2 and progression have a ratcheting drum gripper (some call it a ratcheting clutch). the klipper has a clam type gripper that IMO is not as easy to use as Gamma's ratcheting drum.

the base on the progression is cast/injected aluminum with an ABS type plastic cover over it for astheticsa and to create a small tool holder. the X-2's base is made from aluminum extrusions. both are equally robust.
 
taylorhorton4 said:
The progession as well as the x-2 has a ratcheting clutch, whereas the Klipper does not. A racheting clutch means that when you wrap the string around the tensioner and pull it to desired tension, the way you get it to that exact weight is to make the tension rod parallel with the ground. With a ratcheting clutch tensioner you can drop the rod to pull tension and if the bar is lower than parallel, which it almost always is, you can hold the tensioner with your left hand firmly and push the rod up to pull additional tension to make the rod parallel and the correct tension is pullled. With the Klipper its like a trial and error thing.

Heres a video demonstrating stringing on the x2(same ratcheting feature as the progression 200). Also a good helpful beginners refrence video. You skip ahead to 3 minutes in the video if you just want a demonstration of the clutch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktxcs5dUoE8

And here is a video demonstrating pulling tension on a Klippermate. Notice how there is no clutch so he has to keep adjusting the strings in a trial and error manner to try and get the exact target tension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIo_bRLljMI
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Wow. That is a different experience. I'm used to stringing with a crank stringer.

Definitely going to have to string a few rackets before I end up teaching anyone how to use it.

Thanks. I think I've made my choice. Going with Gamma.
 
clxtennis said:
Wow. That is a different experience. I'm used to stringing with a crank stringer.

Definitely going to have to string a few rackets before I end up teaching anyone how to use it.

Thanks. I think I've made my choice. Going with Gamma.
Click to expand...

Based on the OP and what you're looking for, I'd go Klippermate hands down. Portability is great with the Klippermate and I bought a $30 tool box to hold all my tools, the machine and string. (Stanley FatMaxx tool box).

The trial-and-error feeding in the tension jaw is really not a big issue. I was able to adjust in my first 3-4 stringings.

When I researched, I much preferred the Klippermate clamps.

Whatever your decision. Enjoy! Hope it works well.
 
I have to echo Carolina Racquet on the trial-and-error feeding in the jaws. I've strung 4 racquets so far with the Klippermate, and I've gotten used to how much string I'm supposed to feed based on the elasticity of the string I'm tensioning.

Gamma's ratchet mechanism does NOT take out the trial-and-error of how much string to feed. It simply converts the way in which I would use my left hand to feed more or take away string on the Klippermate. Effectively, I think the ratchet mechanism saves a few seconds for each time you tension, which adds up over the entire racquet -- maybe total ~3 minutes faster compared to a Klippermate user of the same feeding-estimate skill.
 
good choice with the gamma, you will not be dissapointed at all. And yes the clamps with the gamma aren't t as good as the Klipper but they certainly do a superb job and the ratcheting system does take the trial and error out of it because with strings such as polly's that do not stretch as much as shown in the video above, almerickso had moved the tension rod down a little further to make up for the lack of stretch that the string provided. Also one could leave a little slack in between the grommet and the tension head when put in the gripper to make up for when stringing with a string that doesn't stretch much. When stringing with one such as a syn. gut that stretches much more, you can just put the string in the tension head leaving no slack in between and you will be fine and you can start with the rod where it is at when normally resting and just pull tension and ratchet the rod so that it becomes level and desired tension is achieved.
 
taylorhorton4 said:
good choice with the gamma, you will not be dissapointed at all. And yes the clamps with the gamma aren't t as good as the Klipper but they certainly do a superb job and the ratcheting system does take the trial and error out of it because with strings such as polly's that do not stretch as much as shown in the video above, almerickso had moved the tension rod down a little further to make up for the lack of stretch that the string provided. Also one could leave a little slack in between the grommet and the tension head when put in the gripper to make up for when stringing with a string that doesn't stretch much. When stringing with one such as a syn. gut that stretches much more, you can just put the string in the tension head leaving no slack in between and you will be fine and you can start with the rod where it is at when normally resting and just pull tension and ratchet the rod so that it becomes level and desired tension is achieved.
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I disagree. Everything I bolded in your quote comes with experience that first starts with trial-and-error. The ratchet system lets you easily adjust your error. If there were no trial-and-error at all, you wouldn't have to ratchet in the first place! A proficient Klippermate user does the same, but adjusts manually by hand. I still contend that trial-and-error are part of dropweight tensioning when deciding how much string to feed. But with experience comes less error adjustment and thus faster stringing.
 
okay now i understand what you meant by trial and error. And yes from this notion i understand that they both include this trial and error but in my opinion it just seems easier and faster on the ratcheting system.
 
Yeah, the ratchet system does simplify it and make it easier. I imagine it makes a gigantic difference to a beginning stringer, which I think is a good selling point for the OP since many HS kids will be learning how to string on it.

The ratchet wasn't a selling point for me because, when first deciding between the X2 and the Klippermate, I figured that eventually I'd get used to how much string to feed. I much preferred the quality flying clamps over Gamma's.

It's really all up to the consumer's preferences. I simply wanted to make it clear that trial-and-error string feeding is part of any dropweight machine. Regardless of which machine a beginner learns on, s/he will have to go through that trial-and-error and eventually gain the experience to know how much string to feed.
 
Both of you guys have some pretty good points.

Are the clamps really that bad on the Gamma? Or are they just a whole lot better on the klippermate?

I have to admit that I do feel that the ratcheting system could make it easier for a beginner. I've never used a drop-weight stringer, and somehow, it seems like it would be a reassuring feature (probably because I've never used one before). The only people that would be using this stringer would be kids that probably have no idea how a racquet is strung. I feel like the ratcheting system could be a helpful frame of reference for them.

On the other side of the argument, the portability of the klippermate would make things easier on me (since I'd be the one lugging it around, but very infrequently).

This decision just got a whole lot tougher.

I'm wondering if I should resort to flipping a coin to decide.
 
Interesting discussion. I have a Gamma P200. I looked at the Klippermate as well, and the Gamma looked much sturdier and well designed. It does easily fold down--I store mine on a bookshelf in my office. I'm not sure how someone can call the base flimsy because it is very solid, but to everyone has their own opinion of things. The ratcheting gripper was one of the deciding factors for me, and I think that was a good decision. I am very impressed with how well designed and well built it is.

That said, from everything I've read, both machines will do an excellent job for you, and I don't think you can go wrong with either.
 
The clamps on the Gamma aren't necessarily bad by any means. I have been using them for a year now and no problems after i wrapped the handles. I think the Klipper's are just better and better quality. Also the issue of portability; the gamma only weighs about 20 pounds and i'm not sure what the Klipper weighs but i'm sure it is very similar. In other words, taking the gamma or the Klipper anywhere will be no problem at all. And after a while of stringing if you feel you want to upgrade the clamps you can always do that there are many great clamps availabe from manufacturers such as some of the best from Stringway and even if you want the Klipper clamps you can purchase those if you realize that you want something better thanthe Gamma's but they honestly aren't very bad at all, I just think that the Klipper's are supperior.
 
I haven't measured the weight of the Klippermate on its own, but I can tell you the shipped package came in at 24 lbs. I don't think the cardboard and paper stuffing weighed 4 lbs, so the Klippermate + its tools might be a tad heavier than the Gamma.

Portability... if you were planning on buying that expensive Klippermate carrying case ($80, or $72 w/ machine purchase), yeah it would fit and be less bulky. I went with a Stanley FatMax 28" tool box for $33, and I'm guessing the Gamma would fit in it as well.

IMG_6357.JPG


So, putting the Klippermate customized case aside, I think your portability advantage for the Klippermate is out the window. Instead, they're pretty much the same from what I can tell.

*EDIT* The dimensions of the FatMax 28" (Amazon link) are as follows:

Length: 28 inches
Width: 12.60 inches
Height: 11.60 inches

Can someone with a Gamma Progression 200 confirm whether it would fit in the FatMax?
 
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weksa said:
I haven't measured the weight of the Klippermate on its own, but I can tell you the shipped package came in at 24 lbs. I don't think the cardboard and paper stuffing weighed 4 lbs, so the Klippermate + its tools might be a tad heavier than the Gamma.

Portability... if you were planning on buying that expensive Klippermate carrying case ($80, or $72 w/ machine purchase), yeah it would fit and be less bulky. I went with a Stanley FatMax 28" tool box for $33, and I'm guessing the Gamma would fit in it as well.

IMG_6357.JPG


So, putting the Klippermate customized case aside, I think your portability advantage for the Klippermate is out the window. Instead, they're pretty much the same from what I can tell.

*EDIT* The dimensions of the FatMax 28" (Amazon link) are as follows:

Length: 28 inches
Width: 12.60 inches
Height: 11.60 inches

Can someone with a Gamma Progression 200 confirm whether it would fit in the FatMax?
Click to expand...

I was going to post a picture of my KMate stored away in the FatMaxx. I'm not sure if you store your machine similar to your posted picture, but here's what I do...

1. Keep the weight on the Arm.
2. Take off only 1 mounting post, storing it in the tray
3. Taking off the mounting arm and lay it on its side.
4. Store the mounting pads and mounting knobs in the tray, dis-assembled.

The combo of the FatMaxx and the KMate can't be beat IMO. PERFECT for storing and traveling.
 
Hey Caroline Racquet, I currently do store it the way as shown, except my tension weight is wrapped up in an old t-shirt. I'm having a bit of trouble imagining your storage, so a pic would be nice. Thanks!
 
Taken from the "Feedback" page from the TW site for the Gamma Progression 200:

Comments: What is the actual weight of this machine?
From: Jober, Philippines, 03/11
(Jober, the machine weighs 24 lbs and dimensions are 24"x11"x13".--TW Staff)

Either too tall or wide... depending on what the 13" refers to.
 
weksa said:
Hey Caroline Racquet, I currently do store it the way as shown, except my tension weight is wrapped up in an old t-shirt. I'm having a bit of trouble imagining your storage, so a pic would be nice. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I took a pic on my phone and in process of sending to flickr... but all I do is keep the weight on the arm and remove the turntable and one mounting stem, and then lay the turntable on its side at the bottom of the box.

Also have room for two reel of string and over 20 packs of string.
 
Just my quick two cents. Every time there's a Klipper vs. any other dropweight thread, lots of people say the cam gripper is not as good as the ratcheting gripper. I wonder how many of those people have strung on both enough to really get a feel for them. From someone's who's used both, I'll say the I like the Klipper cam gripper better and think I can string easier and faster with it than with the ratcheting grippers. Just me...
 
^^Valuable opinion from jgrushing right there.

For fun, I did a search again. To the OP, definitely look for the opinions of those who have used BOTH machines.

Better Clamps vs Ratchet Gripper

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4591422&postcount=39 - this is a specific post by TW member athiker, who posted the video on adjusting the string feed for the Klippermate. Apparently, it was only his 3rd time stringing. On page 3 of the same thread, Athiker urges viewers not to consider the Klippermate a slow machine based on that video. More interestingly, BobFL mentions an advantage of Klipper's cam gripper if you ever run low on string. Anyways, a good read.

The Klippermate's cam gripper isn't that slow to use. Others have apparently strung pretty fast (ridiculously fast, IMO) on a Klippermate. Not that I personally know, but the Gamma clamps probably aren't that bad either, just not as good quality as the Klipper clamps as others say. Honestly, I don't think you -- the OP -- can really go wrong with either machine. Choose one, don't look back, and get those HS kids learning how to string! haha
 
The Kmate's gripper is just like anything: you get used to how much string to put in it, then it's all easy to do.

I tend to remember my bike shifters: I don't have click shifters, but I ride my bike enough to know just what point to put the lever. Same with the Klippermate.
 
Just ordered the Gamma Progression 200. Should be getting it somewhere between two days and a week and a half...

I'll post an update of my impressions once I get it.

Thank you guys for all your help/advice.
 
Quick Pic: The Progression 200 has similar parts. Here is the X-2 for your comparison. The height of the gripper is about 11.5". The weight is about 21 pounds. For this photo only, I piled together the parts--carefully, and lowered the arm. It can be reassembled in a minute.

Note: I forgot to put an arrow on the right side pointing to the ruler from the gripper. The gripper ends almost directly above the base. I have all of the actual lengths marked with blue lines on the rulers.

stringercopy.jpg
 
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I have had no problems with the Gamma floating clamps. The gripper is easy to use and becomes less necessary as you learn how to position the bar. I won't get into the whole Klipper vs. Gamma/other debate.
 
Sorry. Missed your post, clxtennis, 23 minutes before my pic post. I should have refreshed. It wasn't there when I decided to start the picture posting process. Best with the Progression 200.
 
Radicalized said:
Sorry. Missed your post, clxtennis, 23 minutes before my pic post. I should have refreshed. It wasn't there when I decided to start the picture posting process. Best with the Progression 200.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pic. I feel more assured after seeing a close up pic of what the x2 looks like. I'm assuming the Progression 200 is just an x2 with a different paint job and slightly different aesthetic design.
 
Clxtennis:

You have already noted that you have a stringing machine. Given that and your experience as a tennis coach, the following information is presented with no disrespect to your knowledge and experience, but only what I'd stress, aside from the stringing basics, to those I would be teaching on this type of Gamma machine (Progression 200, X-2, X-6, etc. with a drop weight and/or Gamma composite floating clamps), and others that might be looking for similar information on the forum. I copied some of this information from previous posts of mine, so again, it wasn't written to someone with your skills.

CLAMP ADJUSTMENT

I like to count the clicks when adjusting the clamps (Gamma Composite Floating) for use for certain strings/gauges so I know where to set them for a particular string. If using the same string all of the time, it's not an issue. I open the clamps up, turn the knob clockwise until it stops, counting the clicks to determine the former clamp "setting" (tightness) for a particular string, rather than guessing. Turn it counterclockwise to reset the clamp to its original setting. You'll get the hang of them. Focus on getting enough grip without being too tight. They shouldn't be too hard to open either.

The clamp "tightness" may change with different strings, even if the gauges are listed as the same. You can figure that out as noted here for whatever your string is and keep it in mind when changing the clamps for other strings, if you do so. First of all, the clamps shouldn't be hard to clamp on or remove--the lever should be fairly easy to open and close. Just as a general number for string, all the way from the position I noted above (open clamp and turn CW until knob stops), and then turn back CCW (counting clicks) might be in the 30 clicks range or so (-X for "thicker"/+X "thinner" generally).

Each of your players may want to know his/her general clamp setting as noted above for his/her particular string.

MACHINE USE

Make sure the plastic adapters are placed over the threaded racquet clamping posts and against the inside of the frame of the racquet. Also, he or she should choose an adapter with the thickness that gets as much frame contact as possible without blocking the grommets.

I don't know your players, but I'd stress the fact that "drop weight" means to them, "let it down slowly weight," not DROP. And never push the bar down.

When securing the racquet with the hold down plates, turn the knobs evenly and with only enough pressure to hold the racquet securely.

They may find it easier to turn the ratcheting gripper so it is parallel with the table/support surface.

The upper numbers on the tension bar scale are for stringing tennis racquets.

There have been questions about this before, but the bar being a degree or two from horizontal is acceptable.

The weight should consist of both parts for stringing tennis racquets. The knob should be on the side that faces the gripper. Tension is set on the tension bar by aligning the side (face) of the weight closest the string gripper with the appropriate number (tension) on the bar.

Turntable posts should angle away from the center of the turntable.

When the bar is close to horizontal, but still below what might be an acceptable angle, while holding the string gripper firmly with your left hand, only lift the bar to go a click of the ratchet (or two at most) to avoid getting the bar too far above horizontal.

Each player may want to determine where he or she can position the bar before inserting the string in the gripper for little to possibly no use (sometimes) of the ratchet. This will depend on the string.

And if one of your players has a racquet with Prince O-ports or the like, perhaps one of your other players can help him/her hold the racquet position while tensioning.

A little trick to get the threaded support posts for the racquet hold down plates between the two center grommets: Place short "U" shaped pieces of string (stiffer string works best) that have been cut out of a racquet (usually has nice bends already) through the grommets at the top and bottom, and then place the racquet down on the supports. Screw the plates/plate knobs down. Then remove the old string guides. You can't miss getting the racquet placed properly so the threaded posts don't block the grommets. And hope he or she found the center when initially counting grommets (or whatever method was used).
 
I use the gamma 602 progression II machine that has the same floating clamps as the 200. When I did my first 2 rackets I ended up cutting myself several times on the clamps. On the back of the red handle with which you close the clamp, there are some sharp edges. I would definitely suggest you wrap the clamp handles in electrical tape before you use the machine. I did this like 6 months ago and it has worked great since...

just my 2cents...
 
taylorhorton4 said:
The progession as well as the x-2 has a ratcheting clutch, whereas the Klipper does not. A racheting clutch means that when you wrap the string around the tensioner and pull it to desired tension, the way you get it to that exact weight is to make the tension rod parallel with the ground. With a ratcheting clutch tensioner you can drop the rod to pull tension and if the bar is lower than parallel, which it almost always is, you can hold the tensioner with your left hand firmly and push the rod up to pull additional tension to make the rod parallel and the correct tension is pullled. With the Klipper its like a trial and error thing.

Heres a video demonstrating stringing on the x2(same ratcheting feature as the progression 200). Also a good helpful beginners refrence video. You skip ahead to 3 minutes in the video if you just want a demonstration of the clutch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktxcs5dUoE8

And here is a video demonstrating pulling tension on a Klippermate. Notice how there is no clutch so he has to keep adjusting the strings in a trial and error manner to try and get the exact target tension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIo_bRLljMI
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The person using the Klippermate in this video is either clueless or very inexperienced with the machine. They are wrapping the string around the gripper each time with the dropweight pointed in the worst possible starting position. You'd think after the first time they do this they'd clue in that this is about the least efficient way to use a Klippermate.

Once you've used the Klippermate even once with a particular string you can figure out the angle the dropweight bar should be at when you wrap the string around the gripper so that the bar falls close to horizontal the first time. This greatly minimizes any trial and error string adjustments around the gripper. They don't go away entirely but I know in my own case if I was doing approximately 36 string pulls on a racquet (assuming say an 18 x 20 string pattern) I bet I'd have to adjust the string in the gripper maybe 3 or 4 times.

I don't mind people posting legitimate criticisms of the Klippermate and its gripper but using this video as a basis of comparison is ridiculous. I just wish I still had my Klippermate in order to do a video of an actual experienced user using one.
 
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It wasn't a criticism, it was merely to show an example of tensioning on the klippermate and tensioning on the x-2, for compare and contrast purposes. And the way that it was performed in the Klipper video seemed very inferior to the method on the x-2. I was stating how I saw it in the videos, and you said "he must be inexperienced". How long does it take to become sufficient in this, as i'm sure that video was taken from the first times he had ever strung on the machine. The poster of this thread stated he wanted an simpler and good quality machine because he would be teaching on it. You wouldn't want to teach kids on a machine that takes four or five experiences to get used to; that may discourage them even more than the difficulty of learning and when you have seven guys on a team and for each of them to have to string four times to fully "get it" would take a lot of broken strings and time.
 
Radicalized said:
Clxtennis:

You have already noted that you have a stringing machine. Given that and your experience as a tennis coach, the following information is presented with no disrespect to your knowledge and experience, but only what I'd stress, aside from the stringing basics, to those I would be teaching on this type of Gamma machine (Progression 200, X-2, X-6, etc. with a drop weight and/or Gamma composite floating clamps), and others that might be looking for similar information on the forum. I copied some of this information from previous posts of mine, so again, it wasn't written to someone with your skills.
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No offense taken. I'm really appreciative of all of the advice you guys are offering. I've never used a drop-weight, and I'm going to keep all of your tips in mind when I'm stringing on it for the first time.

Again, thanks.
 
taylorhorton4 said:
It wasn't a criticism, it was merely to show an example of tensioning on the klippermate and tensioning on the x-2, for compare and contrast purposes. And the way that it was performed in the Klipper video seemed very inferior to the method on the x-2. I was stating how I saw it in the videos, and you said "he must be inexperienced". How long does it take to become sufficient in this, as i'm sure that video was taken from the first times he had ever strung on the machine. The poster of this thread stated he wanted an simpler and good quality machine because he would be teaching on it. You wouldn't want to teach kids on a machine that takes four or five experiences to get used to; that may discourage them even more than the difficulty of learning and when you have seven guys on a team and for each of them to have to string four times to fully "get it" would take a lot of broken strings and time.
Click to expand...
Someone watched the video you posted and then said made the decision to by the Gamma machine rather than the Klippermate based on the video. I can't speak for everyone but I figured out the first time I used the machine how to use the gripper. You can teach someone to string using a Klippermate assuming you know what you're doing which the person in the video clearly did not. I don't know where you got the 4 or 5 experiences for the Klippermate--are you just pulling that out of the air? I would say that just doing the basics of stringing on any machine such as tying knots correctly, navigating blocked holes, and weaving crosses takes several times to master or at least do reasonably efficiently but it doesn't take 4 or 5 string jobs to figure out how to use the gripper unless you are a total lunkhead.
 
beernutz said:
The person using the Klippermate in this video is either clueless or very inexperienced with the machine. They are wrapping the string around the gripper each time with the dropweight pointed in the worst possible starting position. You'd think after the first time they do this they'd clue in that this is about the least efficient way to use a Klippermate.

Once you've used the Klippermate even once with a particular string you can figure out the angle the dropweight bar should be at when you wrap the string around the gripper so that the bar falls close to horizontal the first time.
Click to expand...

How can you choose the angle of the dropweight bar? Isn't it determined by how it rests against the rocker bumper?
 
I just saw the video and agree with beernutz. Using the string grip is tons smoother than this guy does it.

Heck, my wife just got a memory card for her video thing: maybe max will put together a shoot on how to use a Kmate!
 
beernutz said:
The person using the Klippermate in this video is either clueless or very inexperienced with the machine. They are wrapping the string around the gripper each time with the dropweight pointed in the worst possible starting position. You'd think after the first time they do this they'd clue in that this is about the least efficient way to use a Klippermate...
Click to expand...

If there was a better way you would think klippermate would not show you the same way in their video. Or am I missing something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsJ6ap967mk&NR=1

Irvin
 
I still don't understand what you guys mean. You can't adjust the resting angle of the dropweight bar. It rests against the rocker bumper and that's the angle it stays at.

The only other solution is to use one hand to support the dropweight, or to use a shoulder or something.

Even if you did this, not sure what advantage it would confer in terms of reducing margin of error when feeding the string through.
 
@ spacediver, start watching this video at 2:40.

http://youtu.be/ktxcs5dUoE8

Although he's using a Gamma dropweight, I think it's what you're trying to imagine. Personally, I don't do that.

When I string poly: from the tension rod resting position, I open up the string jaws and put the string in. As I close the string jaws, I might give some more string slack before closing completely if the poly happens to be really non-stretchy. The occasional problem is that the slack portion that runs over the jaws' groove pops out -- with which I've learned to manage well, so it's not a problem for me anymore.

When I string syn gut: from the tension rod resting position, I open up the string jaws and put the string in. As I close the string jaws, I pull the tail end of that string to take away some slack -- because syn gut is pretty stretchy.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing video of max use the Klippermate. Maybe I'll pick up some tips.
 
weksa... good explanation of what I do as well.

The key here is that once you get some experience with the KMate, you adjust the feed and make length adjustments before the jaw fully clamps the string.

Once loaded in the jaw, to make subtle adjustments, bring the arm up a little until the jaw loosens the clamp and slide in/out more string with your other hand until the arm is lowered to the parallel position. As you get more experienced, this adjustment if needed is only a few seconds.

After 3 months of use, my typical string time on the KMate is about 30 minutes. Last night I did poly on the EXO3 with a two-piece 50/50 cross installation in 32 minutes.
 
Last edited:
spacediver said:
I still don't understand what you guys mean. You can't adjust the resting angle of the dropweight bar. It rests against the rocker bumper and that's the angle it stays at.

The only other solution is to use one hand to support the dropweight, or to use a shoulder or something.

Even if you did this, not sure what advantage it would confer in terms of reducing margin of error when feeding the string through.
Click to expand...

Your second paragraph is exactly what I used to do. You hold the bar with one hand at the angle you've determined will allow the bar to drop to horizontal and with your other hand you separate the gripper opening and wrap the string. Easy peasy.
 
argh for some reason missed the replies here.

Interesting, I guess this technique requires being able to feed the string through the klipper jaws with one hand.

Weksa, in another thread, you told me that it's better to use your left finger in that hole on the jaws, and the right hand to feed the string through, and to use the rocker bumper to hold the rod in place.

Now I'm hearing that it's better to forget about the rocker bumper, and use one hand to hold the tension rod and only one hand to work the jaws and string.

Am I missing something here?
 
Spacediver, you can do whatever works best for you.

Clarifications on my method: I don't keep the left finger inside the string jaw hole. I simply use my finger to open up the string jaws, then feed in the string with my right hand. Then I use my left hand to push down on the slack, making sure it aligns into the string jaws groove (at 10-12 o'clock), which at the same time pulls the string jaws shut. As it pulls shut, I use my right hand to either (1) give more slack if it's a poly, or (2) take away slack by pulling on the string tail if it's a syn gut. Once that's done, I keep my left hand on the slack while I start dropping the tension rod over with my right hand.

The other method is perfectly acceptable too. Try both out, find out which way works best for you - efficient, fast, accurate - and stick with it. I've simply grown comfortable with the way I do it.
 
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