Gauff Continues to Fall
- Thread starter glenda
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nighthawkrr
Rookie
This comment is even funnier with her losing to the Capital One princess.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
I know how folks on here will take this so I’ll clarify first. I am a big coco gauff fan. Was happy she got her slam last year.
But here’s the hard truth. She implemented the winning ugly strategy from Gilbert. She won Cincinnati by beating Iga in SFs who hit a slew of UF Errors. But she shrunk the court and played high margin tennis.
She had tough draw but reasonable path to finals at US open. I thought she played well. But sabalanka handed her that us open title with a slew of errors even on short balls she just kept launching them long or into net and coco just shaped her forehands and played error free tennis. Right - so that is good enough to play “winning ugly” when you’re not playing your best and it got her a big title.
Well her game never took off offensively. Her forehand isn’t feared. For pro level tour it looks too loopy and short sometimes and immediately it seems she goes back on defense after hitting it. Lately she’s seemed to hit too many UF errors from her backhand side and serve so now her game isn’t a threat on tour at all since Roland Garros.
So what does coco need to do? Part of it is nerves I think. She won grand slam. Anxiety/nerves defending big points do play a part at 20 years old. Happens to a lot of players after first slam.
I do think she’s playing too tight. Not to lose strategy and she’s losing too early in tourneys lately. I don’t think Brad Gilbert is the coach for her if she wants to maximize the talent she has. Great athlete. Has excellent power but doesn’t attack enough when she should.
I do think maybe losing early in these last few tourneys will be a humbling experience and good reset mentally. She’s young so she’ll learn how to play and defend big titles eventually. But I do think she needs to refine her game a bit. The talent is there. The strategy is a question.
But here’s the hard truth. She implemented the winning ugly strategy from Gilbert. She won Cincinnati by beating Iga in SFs who hit a slew of UF Errors. But she shrunk the court and played high margin tennis.
She had tough draw but reasonable path to finals at US open. I thought she played well. But sabalanka handed her that us open title with a slew of errors even on short balls she just kept launching them long or into net and coco just shaped her forehands and played error free tennis. Right - so that is good enough to play “winning ugly” when you’re not playing your best and it got her a big title.
Well her game never took off offensively. Her forehand isn’t feared. For pro level tour it looks too loopy and short sometimes and immediately it seems she goes back on defense after hitting it. Lately she’s seemed to hit too many UF errors from her backhand side and serve so now her game isn’t a threat on tour at all since Roland Garros.
So what does coco need to do? Part of it is nerves I think. She won grand slam. Anxiety/nerves defending big points do play a part at 20 years old. Happens to a lot of players after first slam.
I do think she’s playing too tight. Not to lose strategy and she’s losing too early in tourneys lately. I don’t think Brad Gilbert is the coach for her if she wants to maximize the talent she has. Great athlete. Has excellent power but doesn’t attack enough when she should.
I do think maybe losing early in these last few tourneys will be a humbling experience and good reset mentally. She’s young so she’ll learn how to play and defend big titles eventually. But I do think she needs to refine her game a bit. The talent is there. The strategy is a question.
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Gauff's ceiling isn't as high as past American greats and you can see the pressure of expectation is getting to her. She doesn't have the power or a big weapon like the Williams sisters, Davenport or even Capriati and her forehand is still a weakness. She doesn't have a great serve. She's still young so she has time to improve her weaknesses but she's not winning anymore Slams until she improves her serve and forehand, and beefs up her game.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Will she fix her forehand is the biggest question for her at the moment. She shouldn't even be thinking about past greats.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I think maybe she should study them though if she wants to go to the next level. She doesn't have the natural instinct of those players I listed to be aggressive and take the initiative early in rallies. They also had weapons to hurt you with. She doesn't right now. I think studying them can show her what she needs to do if she wants to improve her game and win more Slams. The way she plays now just isn't going to do it, and yea she needs to start with fixing her forehand.
I never thought much of Navarro’s game when she first came on the scene, very steady but not a ton of firepower, the alarming thing for Coco fans is that Navarro’s game has improved more than Coco’s has in the last two years. With the exception of net play, what does Coco do better?
American women‘s tennis really needs Anisimova to get it together on a consistent basis, she’s the best ball striker of any of them.
American women‘s tennis really needs Anisimova to get it together on a consistent basis, she’s the best ball striker of any of them.
fecund345
Semi-Pro
Fire Brad Gilbert.
Loosen up her forehand grip, maybe even go down a grip size like Jannik Sinner does.
Cocoa needs to be 4 to 6 inches off the ground when serving, both serves. Lose the Stan Wawrinka style of serving.
Somebody needs to make her become proficient at hitting all 4 serving targets.
And she needs to be able to hit backhands down the line in her sleep, come in with an approach shot in front of her not hit to the opponents "weaker side"so she can bisect the angle on her first volley.
She does these thing she reels off 8 grand slams in a row.
Loosen up her forehand grip, maybe even go down a grip size like Jannik Sinner does.
Cocoa needs to be 4 to 6 inches off the ground when serving, both serves. Lose the Stan Wawrinka style of serving.
Somebody needs to make her become proficient at hitting all 4 serving targets.
And she needs to be able to hit backhands down the line in her sleep, come in with an approach shot in front of her not hit to the opponents "weaker side"so she can bisect the angle on her first volley.
She does these thing she reels off 8 grand slams in a row.
KingCarlitos
Hall of Fame
So much for at least 10 slams lol.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Frankly luck, great legs and the right game plan were on her side during the maiden slam run. Having great success playing pushy with a big serve and a strong backhand partly reveals your natures and shapes your mentality. To have greater long-term chances she needs a better forehand with more attacking proclivity.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
This means we need a thread like this when Rybakina (and any other top WTA player) fails.
Oval_Solid
Hall of Fame
she needs to develop the killer forehand ballistic backhand and sonic serve
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
The one thing Gilbert was brought in for was for improving the mental side of the game and strategy. I mean I’m not in her coaching meetings or practices but he’s supposedly a smart guy right? The winning ugly approach full time isn’t getting you more slams.
I do think adding a sports psychologist like many other pros have done (not just tennis) can help.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
She definitely has. I don’t think she has many weapons but her movement and ground strokes have drastically improved over the last year.
She’s riding a high after beating Coco again but it also wouldn’t shock me if she loses to Badosa in QFs.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
I will agree she doesn’t have the Serena and Venus like power. I will disagree on serve I actually think from a power stand point - it can get up there. It’s consistency for her on that department which means she needs to develop and fine tune more.
I am lost on how weak her forehand is and how it’s not getting better. I think an area to explore sports psychologist. Helps Iga and other pro athletes. Coco is still 20. There’s bound to still be some immaturity at a level. I’ve noticed in her interviews she references “haters” and “negative comments” on her Instagram or tik tok. I think she’s going to be too involved in that but needs to learn to tune out whacky and wonky comments.
This has the implausible ring of an old Vic Braden promise.
medieval_remnant
Rookie
Her shoulders collapse on her serve and her shoulders over rotate on her forehand
a10best
Legend
It's pretty clear her serve needs work during pressure moments. Too many DFs. Brad said her serve works fine in practice but not always in a big match.
How about during practice (a no-pressure situation), tell if her she DFs 2x in a row or 2x out of 4 times that she loses "_____" (something personal to her like her favorite restaurants/bakery, shopping in NYC).
How about during practice (a no-pressure situation), tell if her she DFs 2x in a row or 2x out of 4 times that she loses "_____" (something personal to her like her favorite restaurants/bakery, shopping in NYC).
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Frenchy-Player
Hall of Fame
Along these lines, I think she should have kept Pere RIba on as her coach.
HBK4life
Hall of Fame
That’s rich. Might be fun to watch him get snippy back during a match. Or throw a chair at her.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Dude couldn't even coach himself to a decent title, he'd ruin Gauff's career.
Why won't Kyrgios just leave us and tennis alone.
Coco could have won this match but was trying to raise her game to an unsustainable level instead of playing within herself. She kept going for way too big serves and groundstrokes that she hasn't mastered to the point where they are consistent shots. Instead, Coco needs to play within her abilities. She does not seem to like the long points that this strategy will lead to against Navarro but she is fully capable of winning that way. By trying to raise her game to an unsustainable level, she missed way too may first serves and forehands. Coco needs to trust her game/abilities more and stop going for low percentage shots that are not fully within her current skill level.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
I’m not sure I agree.
After the first set I had a feeling it was over. Kinda shocked she took it to 3.
Going into the USOpen I thought she was going to get bounced in R3. She picked her level up against svetelina to close that match out after set 1 but then didn’t seem to ascend with that level and motivation coming into the R16.
Alcawrath
Professional
Who wouldn't want another Serena? Who wouldn't want the most dominant female player on tour in the modern era? I'll take the ego if it comes with countless slams and American glory.
She has no forehand!! Everyone knows it and they know it’s going to break down in the pressure points of a match.
fecund345
Semi-Pro
Coco can't out rally the elite players unless she can consistently hit that weak- hit too close to her body- slow racket head speed for an extreme grip- forehand down the line and make it a backhand crosscourt battle
LeftyMagic
Rookie
i dont think hype machine is nearly as large for rybakina or any other wta player. coco is literally everywhere - atleast in the usa. more sponsors than anyone, shes the face of the wta on their website or apps. thus, the expectations are high. shes expected to win.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Yeah, tennis is not that popular in Kazakhstan.
LeftyMagic
Rookie
she overpowered juniors as she was much bigger than other girls. maybe she was feeling it on a slam run, dont recall her draw, but like radacanu and many others sometimes u can win 1. these results arent a shock. navarro is a much more solid player in all aspects - and so are many others on the come up. i dont see her road getting any easier.
she has what feels like 100 coaches in her box, endless sponsor obligations, did they tell her to carry the flag at the olympics? i might be wrong on that one, but shes way overhyped. u can fix her forehand and her serve or whatever, but u cant fix her mental. without a crowd behind her she folds up like a deck of cards. all we had to do was see her cry that time on court, sealed it for me forever. way too emotionally charged with the wrong emotions
she has what feels like 100 coaches in her box, endless sponsor obligations, did they tell her to carry the flag at the olympics? i might be wrong on that one, but shes way overhyped. u can fix her forehand and her serve or whatever, but u cant fix her mental. without a crowd behind her she folds up like a deck of cards. all we had to do was see her cry that time on court, sealed it for me forever. way too emotionally charged with the wrong emotions
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Rybakina doesn’t have any hype. She’s a great player when she’s not dealing with whatever she has going on. Very concerning she’s pulled out of tourneys 7 times with abdominal or stomach injuries? Idk
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I agree and she was actually serving pretty well last summer. The forehand is such a weakness though and her serve is really not much of a weapon now and too inconsistent, and she hit a ton of double faults in her loss.
Look at the stats of her serve in her loss though. She only served 46% and hit 19 double faults in a 3 set match. 19? That's a horrendous amount. I agree she has power on her 1st serve and get into the 120s, but she's not getting enough free points off it, the percentage is often not high enough, and she's hitting so many double fauls. So I believe she also needs to find someone to help retool her serve and make it more of a consistent weapon.
It looked like Brad had improved her forehand a bit last summer but she has regressed back to that way it was before. Spinny, loopy and short with no pace sitting up ready to be attacked. These are the two shots she must improve imo.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
What I meant was her serve can be a powerful weapon but it’s not consistent - and you highlighted her inconsistencies with more detail and depth.
Her forehand is ugly at the wta tour level. When I was watching her matches at Wimbledon earlier in the summer I was wondering how anyone could say she’s a favorite to win any slam. That just looked like a sitting duck to attack.
Here at the Open, I saw Coco Gauff step into her forehand shots. They had action and drive. Yet Coco lacks faith in her forehand as a reliable shot and a regular accurate shot, preventing her from constructing points in a lengthy rally. Her forehand, driving as it was, couldn't back up Emma Navarro to her heels. So what's left?
Unstable Coco put all the pressure on her backhand instantly winning points and her serve instantly winning points, yet all the while knowing that Emma would continue to pound away at her forehand until it broke down in a rally. Then the few occasions of Coco given a backhand, it served nothing more than a typical rally return. And her serve dwindle to double fault after double fault.
Did Coco's double faults alone cost her the match? I don't know.
In my own play, when an opponent has no idea how a shot will come off the racket, I lose rhythm.
After the match, Emma said that most of the match had no rhythm.
Keep an eye on the composed, stable, and growing more confident Emma. Her coaching is bringing her along step by step on continuous improvement, including on clay.
I wouldn't be surprised if Emma rose to World No. 1 within the next two years.
Unstable Coco put all the pressure on her backhand instantly winning points and her serve instantly winning points, yet all the while knowing that Emma would continue to pound away at her forehand until it broke down in a rally. Then the few occasions of Coco given a backhand, it served nothing more than a typical rally return. And her serve dwindle to double fault after double fault.
Did Coco's double faults alone cost her the match? I don't know.
In my own play, when an opponent has no idea how a shot will come off the racket, I lose rhythm.
After the match, Emma said that most of the match had no rhythm.
Keep an eye on the composed, stable, and growing more confident Emma. Her coaching is bringing her along step by step on continuous improvement, including on clay.
I wouldn't be surprised if Emma rose to World No. 1 within the next two years.
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There is a gulf of talent difference between Iga/Sabalenka and the rest. No chance in the near term for anyone else to get to top 2
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I watched some of the Navarro/Gauff match.
In the forehand exchanges, ball quality was about even, but Gauff’s motion looked jerky and pulling up through the contact zone, like the timing window was very short.
In contrast, Navarro’s fh looked fluid through contact, with more extended hitting window.
It was obvious that over the course of 2h match that day, that Navarro was going to win the battle.
I still say that Gauff hasn’t reached her ceiling yet.
Neither has Navarro, who looked like a legit contender for this title for the first time.
Navarro’s improvement is at least in part due to improvements in her physique. She is a physical specimen this year.
In the forehand exchanges, ball quality was about even, but Gauff’s motion looked jerky and pulling up through the contact zone, like the timing window was very short.
In contrast, Navarro’s fh looked fluid through contact, with more extended hitting window.
It was obvious that over the course of 2h match that day, that Navarro was going to win the battle.
I still say that Gauff hasn’t reached her ceiling yet.
Neither has Navarro, who looked like a legit contender for this title for the first time.
Navarro’s improvement is at least in part due to improvements in her physique. She is a physical specimen this year.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Well said. Her game revolves ironically around the forehand weakness, in the sense that big second serves and risky backhands try to protect it as it can not relied upon.
Must be mentally tough trying to escape the cc forehand exchanges in all sorts of ways.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea that forehand is a sitting duck. It's so loopy and short, and not much pace plus she can easily be overpowered on that shot. Unless she fixes it, I don't think she can win another Slam.
LeftyMagic
Rookie
agreed she has zero hype. its why we dont need separate threads when she loses.
RSJfan
Hall of Fame
Big no. You obviously never saw her in juniors. She was playing juniors at ages 13 and 14 and was smaller than many of her competitors who were older, bigger and stronger.
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Don Felder
Semi-Pro
I struggle to think of a less complete slam champion than Coco, even among one hit wonders. Just so many holes in her game.
Ostapenko and Vondrousova have won. So, I guess Coco is fine given she came back from a set down in 4 of the 7 matches
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
Coco needs to get rid of this goofball.
What happened yesterday, the 19 double faults, are the direct the result of his coaching.
What happened yesterday, the 19 double faults, are the direct the result of his coaching.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
No, she was double-faulting even before Gilbert if I recall.
GimmeBackMyDog
Rookie
Probably.
But rather than fix it, he's been encouraging her all this time to continue double faulting.
Teaching someone to double fault as much as possible during a match isn't a winning strategy.
How the hell is he qualified to coach anyone with his utter lack of work ethic and mental stability.
She wanted to but he didn't. Probably because he didn't want to hang out with BG.
Riva of course is doing great things with Zheng.
