Gazelle on the menu (serve vid)

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
So I finally took some time to film my serve, using my self-walking and talking camera. As usual filming one's own tennis game is a humiliating experience, and this is no difference. There's a lot I could remark about my serve, but I don't wanne spoil the fun for you guys.

Have fun analysing my old grannies serve :) Some tips for improvement are welcome.



 
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Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Thx for the comments. How do you fix the water's tray? Cause I don't feel like I'm doing waiters tray, but the vid doesn't lie.
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Thx for the comments. How do you fix the water's tray? Cause I don't feel like I'm doing waiters tray, but the vid doesn't lie.
I only looked at the first video clip of your serve. You can check this issue yourself. It is the most common serving technique in use by active players.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Swing the racquet to the ball on edge.
But waiters tray can manifest in different ways, right? Early on in the backswing I seem to open up already, I suppose this is waiters tray too? But you say I also open up too early when swinging to the ball?
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
But waiters tray can manifest in different ways, right? Early on in the backswing I seem to open up already, I suppose this is waiters tray too? But you say I also open up too early when swinging to the ball?
The serve is a difficult stroke to teach in person. Virtually impossible to do so over the internet.
 
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Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
The serve is a difficult stroke to teach in person. Virtually impossible to do so over the internet.
Also impossible in real life it would seem. Several of my former coaches dared to tell me I had a good serve (doing little to improve it). That's why I don't pay them anymore.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Also impossible in real life it would seem. Several of my former coaches dared to tell me I had a good serve (doing little to improve it). That's why I don't pay them anymore.
Ugh. Those are awful coaches. Gotta find a good one. Definitely not always easy to find though.
 
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mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
But waiters tray can manifest in different ways, right? Early on in the backswing I seem to open up already, I suppose this is waiters tray too? But you say I also open up too early when swinging to the ball?
Your serve breaks down from the moment you toss the ball.

The toss should feel like you are placing the ball by lifting from your shoulder and not by flipping or tossing the ball up.

Next, the entire service motion should be fluid with no pauses after the toss is initiated. You toss the ball, then pause and look at the ball before starting to swing at it.

You never rotate the shoulders backward nor load the back leg before beginning the forward swing to generate racquet head speed so the end result is pretty much an armed serve.
 
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mbm0912

Hall of Fame
So I finally took some time to film my serve, using my self-walking and talking camera. As usual filming one's own tennis game is a humiliating experience, and this is no difference. There's a lot I could remark about my serve, but I don't wanne spoil the fun for you guys.

Have fun analysing my old grannies serve :) Some tips for improvement are welcome.



Are those small pants or large shorts?
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
So I finally took some time to film my serve, using my self-walking and talking camera. As usual filming one's own tennis game is a humiliating experience, and this is no difference. There's a lot I could remark about my serve, but I don't wanne spoil the fun for you guys.

Have fun analysing my old grannies serve :) Some tips for improvement are welcome.



The serve is based on throwing. You place the ball into a space in the air with your left hand, and throw your racquet at it with your right hand.

You are not executing a smooth, continuous throwing motion. Have you ever played a throwing sport? Can you throw a ball? If not, I would advocate practicing throwing a ball (preferably a football), and then trying to replicate the feeling of that motion when serving.

But waiters tray can manifest in different ways, right? Early on in the backswing I seem to open up already, I suppose this is waiters tray too? But you say I also open up too early when swinging to the ball?
That will correct itself with a proper grip and throwing motion.
 
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Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
The serve is based on throwing. You place the ball into a space in the air with your left hand, and throw your racquet at it with your right hand.

You are not executing a smooth, continuous throwing motion. Have you ever played a throwing sport? Can you throw a ball? If not, I would advocate practicing throwing a ball (preferably a football), and then trying to replicate the feeling of that motion when serving.



That will correct itself with a proper grip and throwing motion.
I think mY grip is correct, continental; Problem is I can't seem to grasp the throwing motion; can't throw for sht :) So training throwing doesn't really help me (I have done that) as I'm throwing incorrectl anwa.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
You need to coil your body, your not doing it at all, you are turned forwards with your upper body and then just hit the ball with ur arm. I think thats one of the reasons you have walters tray, its an end result of previous motions.
I would try to turn your upper body much more away from the net and feel like your upper body is coiled and feel the pressure in ur hips, then when you initiate the stroke, do it by uncoiling ur body so the arm naturally lags behind a bit then gets thrown forward into the ball (and being loose), instead of initiating the hit with ur arm and arming it, try it and see if it improves things.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Maybe I should stop looking for tennis coaches ( as I can't seem to find a good one) and find a throwing coach instead.
When things don't come naturally, you just gotta work even harder at it. What one lacks in natural talent and ability can be addressed by more practice with proper coaching and supervision...to a certain extent.
 
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vex

Hall of Fame
Thx for the comments. How do you fix the water's tray? Cause I don't feel like I'm doing waiters tray, but the vid doesn't lie.
First off, I always knew you were a secret Rafa fan... those pants, 2008 Rafa wants them back!

Onto your serve, dude you have so much potentia! Keep working.

Everyone's mileage varies but this is what I did to crank my serve up to something respectable:
- continental, pistol grip - space between my forefinger and other fingers.
- fingertip toss consistently to around 12:30 - for me what works best is the ball getting only about 1 foot higher that I contact it - not a fan of high tosses but everyone's different.
- contact at the highest point I can reasonably reach. You gotta go up and get it (in your vid your hitting almost a foot lower than if you were hitting at your ideal - that's a lotta margin your giving up.)
- for me the best way to conceptualize the swing was thinking if Indiana Jones cracking his whip - loose arm, Lots of whip action, hitting up high, pronating thru the contact.
- slightly closed face at contact - varies based on your height - taller you are, the more you can hit "down".
-after you do all of the above and have a nice flat serve start incorporating topspin by hitting up on the ball for more margin
 
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vex

Hall of Fame
Maybe I should stop looking for tennis coaches ( as I can't seem to find a good one) and find a throwing coach instead.
One last thought - try to spend 30 minutes hitting serves every day/every other day for 2 months, you'll grow by leaps and bounds. Just back off when ur body says u need a day or two off.
 

coupergear

Professional
I think mY grip is correct, continental; Problem is I can't seem to grasp the throwing motion; can't throw for sht :) So training throwing doesn't really help me (I have done that) as I'm throwing incorrectl anwa.
There is your issue. Gonna be tough to have a good serve if you can't throw. I like your idea of a throwing coach--maybe ask a local pro to just help you with your serve, starting out without racket and just throwing.


This one shows Rafa breaking his serve down in 2010. Made some radical changes to his serve...started out with improving his throwing motion (Rafa practicing throws at 1:40). Unfortunately, it shows the "after" state of his throws, doesn't really show what his throws looked like before this coach worked with him (I'm sure he already had a decent motion), or exactly what the coach said to change his motion--although it does shows his old serve, which really did look way different than his improved serve. I'd work on the throwing motion...even look at baseball tutorials perhaps, that are teaching younger kids to throw more efficiently?
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
There is your issue. Gonna be tough to have a good serve if you can't throw. I like your idea of a throwing coach--maybe ask a local pro to just help you with your serve, starting out without racket and just throwing.


This one shows Rafa breaking his serve down in 2010. Made some radical changes to his serve...started out with improving his throwing motion (Rafa practicing throws at 1:40). Unfortunately, it shows the "after" state of his throws, doesn't really show what his throws looked like before this coach worked with him (I'm sure he already had a decent motion), or exactly what the coach said to change his motion--although it does shows his old serve, which really did look way different than his improved serve. I'd work on the throwing motion...even look at baseball tutorials perhaps, that are teaching younger kids to throw more efficiently?
I'm going to hire that Oscar guy. He seems to know what he's doing.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
I think mY grip is correct, continental; Problem is I can't seem to grasp the throwing motion; can't throw for sht :) So training throwing doesn't really help me (I have done that) as I'm throwing incorrectl anwa.
In your videos, your grip appears to be somewhere between Continental and Eastern forehand. I advocate an Eastern backhand grip on serve.

Of course you can learn a throwing motion. If you are in the U.S., go to a sporting goods store, buy a football, and practice throwing it with a friend.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
2nd video - OP, if you were doing a high level serving technique your upper arm would be at too high an angle relative to a line between your shoulders. This angle can increase shoulder impingement risk with a high level serving technique. Stop and study this issue until you understand it.



There and many threads on this issue.

Search: Ellenbecker "Rotator Cuff Injury"

See thread Shoulder Injury - Informative Videos
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/shoulder-injury-informative-videos.556000/
 
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A

Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
One of the issues that hasn't been mentioned is that you "swing" your racket with a stiff, straightened elbow, as if bowling a cricket ball. All your racket drop just comes from the wrist. Do you play cricket by any chance?
Try to turn your arm into more of a whip, and bend the elbow, to drop the racket down behind your head to generate momentum. At the moment your backswing is very minimal due to your straight arm.
I would do lots and lots of shadow swings, and just get used to that loop of the racket head, coming down behind your head, then swinging up and out, and letting the momentum follow through.
When I started the game, I actually added a lot of weight to the tip of the racket (I stuck a small bag of rice to it!), to groove my serve shadow swings, to improve using the momentum of the racket.

There's also a simple tool you can buy if you can be bothered, which is designed for this purpose.
 

Vanhalen

Professional
The grip, the hitch, the kink, the zero turn, the pants or shorts or whatever those are you are wearing.....

I just can't.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
I'm surprised about the comments about my grip. Maybe it looks different because of the weird moves I'm making? Cause I'm pretty sure I have continental, no way that is an eastern forehand grip. Or my knowledge about tennis is totally wrong.
 
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heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
^^no that's not continental, it's a little off. Index knuckle should sit on bevel two.
Then use the continuous motion drill to smooth out the hitch without the ball. Then after while you can add the toss again.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
^^no that's not continental, it's a little off. Index knuckle should sit on bevel two.
Then use the continuous motion drill to smooth out the hitch without the ball. Then after while you can add the toss again.
I don't understand. When I take my racket in continental index knuckle is on bevel 2. So I would expect it to be like that in the vid, unless it changes somewhere during the motion without me noticing?

Edit: I grabbed my racket a few more times, and it seems my 'conti' grip might vary just a little bit at times, with sometimes the knuckle it bit further down clockwards than it's supposed to be. Oh dear.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't understand. When I take my racket in continental index knuckle is on bevel 2. So I would expect it to be like that in the vid, unless it changes somewhere during the motion without me noticing?

Edit: I grabbed my racket a few more times, and it seems my 'conti' grip might vary just a little bit at times, with sometimes the knuckle it bit further down clockwards than it's supposed to be. Oh dear.
Someone once photo'd their continental grip attempt and posted it and got feedback...it worked out well iirc.

It's just one aspect but a good place to start.
 
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