Gender neutral rating for usta

A trans would be playing in women’s leagues? Or you mean someone like eliot page? Losing to a pusher is a rite of passage and learning to beat them is important to improve. I once helped a friend by playing that style and I was amazed how relaxing it is to just chop everything back not trying to hit a winner.

As for using set scores vs games, Ive heard arguments that with more matches, sets are just as good and less manipulated by ppl trying to sandbag. But WTN doesn’t match up well w skill. And i dont know how often it gets updated. I do like that it separates singles and doubles.
 
Interesting data. So you have almost 400 3.0 players in your area? Are the 2.5 players getting played in 3.0 leagues or in mixed doubles or some other combos. Almost half stopped playing altogether. I’m sure the guys the 12 play with and are competitive with, are not inclined to join usta.
The active 2.5's are nearly all playing in 3.0 men's leagues, including 40+ and 18+. A couple play some mixed or 55+ / 65+ 6.0 combo.

A bottom level 2.5 doubles pair would be expected to lose to a *bottom* 3.0 pair 6-0 6-0. So yes of course some of the 2.5 men will get crushed by mid level 3.0. Just like some 3.5 players will get crushed by some mid level 4.0 players. I’m curious, have you ever played in a men’s 3.0 league?
Yes I agree, for the 2.5 men who are not even close to the 2.5/3.0 border, it is tough to expect them to have a good experience playing in 3.0 leagues. It would be great if they had a league to play in. But those men seem to be quite rare from what I'm seeing. If there were truly hordes of them out there wanting to play in leagues, then we would see more 2.5 men's leagues.

I have not played 3.0, but my experience a borderline 3.5/4.0 guy who plays 4.0 seems to be quite similar to the 2.5C guys who are active in 3.0: I lose a lot but have mostly competitive matches and get some wins here and there, and have no problem getting playing time on (usually bad) teams.

So you look at 28 players who played last year. 12 are not on any teams now - perhaps they weren’t asked but who knows. Right there is that a typical drop rate? Do 3/7s of players usually not play the next year after they played the current year?
That would be a good analysis to do but beyond my scope right now. Could be some of the 12 would not be playing this year even if there was a 2.5 league.

But *one* of the 28 played 23 league matches. So you conclude based on that one guy that they all have no problem getting playing time? 23 matches is a decent number but it is also not huge. If someone at the upper end of their rating level wanted to have double that number of matches in an area like yours they pretty easily could. I live in a area where all but one 3.0 over 40 within 1.5 hours is on my team (12 total) and we played one other 3.0 40 and over team which is 2.5 hours away. And I played 30 matches this year.
Yeah that was just an example to show what is possible for a 2.5C player who is motivated to join multiple teams. He could be playing even more if he chose to play mixed as well, which he has not. Other active 2.5C players have played in 18, 14, 13, 13, 11, etc. matches this year, so the 23 was not a huge outlier. When I look at their individual leagues, they are getting just as much playing time as the 3.0 guys on their team. These are non-competitive teams that are looking to fill their roster and don't mind having a few below-level guys. They rotate through the whole roster for their weekly lineups, which is pretty common for many captains at all levels.

Being an upper level 2.5 can be helpful for mixed doubles 6.0 team. Some guys sandbag their adult rating just so they can lock in mixed doubles for a few years.
Yes, an upper 2.5C guy will have a tough time getting wins in 3.0, but can be an asset in 6.0 mixed and perhaps also 6.0 men's combo. My section even goes down to 5.5 mixed and has a sectional championship for that. But I'm only finding one 2.5 guy in my area who might be taking advantage of the opportunity to play on teams with championship aspirations. To me, this adds support to the idea that a) 2.5-level league guys are rare in general, and b) the rare ones who do exist don't really care much about being on competitve teams.
 
It is interesting to hear what is popular in different areas.

You have almost 400 men playing 3.0, how many are in the 3.5 adult league?

Mixed is very popular in my area. But because the levels are so out of whack most men much prefer same gender play. When you are playing below 9.0 it usually works better to have a higher rated male player. At 6.0 2.5 male will have a 3.5 female. They might be playing against a 3.5 male and a 2.5 female. If you look at the utr chart you will see the team with the higher rated male will usually end up with more utr points. The same is true with 7.0. I play with a solid female 4.0 and I am at the upper end of 3.0 but it is some rough going. Mixed has quite a few out of level players especially on the men’s side. So if a guy had a upper 2.5 mixed rating he would likely be mid 3.0.

I wasn’t sure the men could set up a 2.5 league. Maybe the guys there don’t know they can either.
 
It should be banned but I'm not sure USTA would spend three nickels to enforce gender separate ratings and play, as it currently exists. And a new definition could be given to mixed doubles, mixed could be a s***t show.
 
You have almost 400 men playing 3.0, how many are in the 3.5 adult league?
I'm looking at the number of men who have each USTA rating, i.e. their rating has not expired but they don't necessarily play league every year. By that count there are 381 3.0 and 2.5 men, and most of them have played 3.0 league in recent few years. Here's the breakdown:

2.5: 81
3.0: 300
3.5: 302
4.0: 324
4.5: 215
5.0: 29
5.5: 1

The 81 2.5 guys include 44 who are 2.5S, and many (most?) of those are doing fine in 3.0 and will get 3.0C for their first computer rating. That group might be interesting to analyze if I get a chance...

Mixed is very popular in my area. But because the levels are so out of whack most men much prefer same gender play. When you are playing below 9.0 it usually works better to have a higher rated male player. At 6.0 2.5 male will have a 3.5 female. They might be playing against a 3.5 male and a 2.5 female. If you look at the utr chart you will see the team with the higher rated male will usually end up with more utr points. The same is true with 7.0. I play with a solid female 4.0 and I am at the upper end of 3.0 but it is some rough going. Mixed has quite a few out of level players especially on the men’s side. So if a guy had a upper 2.5 mixed rating he would likely be mid 3.0.
I'd say mixed is pretty popular here too, but there are not many men who play it exclusively. There are currently 6 men with 2.5M ratings, and only 33 M-rated men overall.

I wasn’t sure the men could set up a 2.5 league. Maybe the guys there don’t know they can either.
I don't see why they couldn't, but I suppose I don't know for sure if any have considered it. I did see that there was 2.5 level offered in a recent NTRP tournament and there were a few male participants.
 
Back
Top