Generalized athletic cheating in Russian athletes

Rusty Shackleford

Rusty Shackleford

G.O.A.T.
I wonder what Buzzzzzzleby's insight on this might be. Western conspiracy to destroy Russia?

I was going to tag him, but no need. His feelers will catch wind of the thread quite easily.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/...ussians-take-to-cheat-041455330-olympics.html

Two days before the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF)
Click to expand...
votes on whether Russian athletes will be allowed to compete in the Olympics, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) released a report that contained numerous allegations, including this startling one:



“Athletics athlete used a container inserted inside her body (presumably containing clean urine). When she tried to use the container it leaked onto the floor and not into the collection vessel. The athlete threw the container into the trash which was retrieved by the DCO. The athlete also tried to bribe the DCO. Eventually the athlete provided a sample which subsequently returned an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF).”

The WADA report claims that a number of athletes across many Olympic sports evaded drug tests by lying about their whereabouts. It also states that there were a “significant amount of Unavailable Athlete Reports and Missed Tests.”

WADA administered 2,947 tests on Russian athletes between Nov. 18, 2015 and May 29. The report claims that 49 Russian athletes tested positive for meldonium, 23 requested tests were missed, 736 tests were “declined or cancelled,” and 111 missed tests were due to “whereabouts failures.”

Russia’s athletic federation was suspended indefinitely from international competition by the IAAF back in November. That was the result of a WADA report that alleged “state-sponsored doping.”

The Russian federation has been pushing hard ever since for a repeal of the ban, and has claimed that its program has undergone widespread reform. The most recent WADA report suggests otherwise.
Click to expand...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/...ussians-take-to-cheat-041455330-olympics.html
 
It does strike me as odd that cheating is exclusive to Russians. It's like they want us to believe there's a correlation between a nationality and a willingness to cheat. Russians are no different from anyone else. It reeks of the common stereotypes that make people believe Germany is always destined to seek control of Europe or that Jews want to take over the world. I'd be very careful when interpreting these findings.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
It does strike me as odd that cheating is exclusive to Russians. It's like they want us to believe there's a correlation between a nationality and a willingness to cheat. Russians are no different from anyone else. It reeks of the common stereotypes that make people believe Germany is always destined to seek control of Europe or that Jews want to take over the world. I'd be very careful when interpreting these findings.
Click to expand...

It isn't Russians, it is the Russian government. To be fair, there are plenty of governments in the world that would do or have done the same thing. But there are also plenty of countries where the government isn't directly connected to their athletes, so there it is more likely individuals cheating rather than institutionalized cheating.
 
mmk said:
It isn't Russians, it is the Russian government. To be fair, there are plenty of governments in the world that would do or have done the same thing. But there are also plenty of countries where the government isn't directly connected to their athletes, so there it is more likely individuals cheating rather than institutionalized cheating.
Click to expand...

I'm more inclined to believe the opposite, that it's because there's not enough government control that these athletes - who communicate amongst themselves - are doping individually but within a certain culture that's predisposed to doing that. I refuse to believe that a government led by an ex-KGB agent would have a national doping policy that systematically fails at the first hurdle.
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
I wonder what Buzzzzzzleby's insight on this might be. Western conspiracy to destroy Russia?
Click to expand...
This is a conspiracy against basic human rights, such as the right to dope, to take whatever you want to improve your performance. ;)

I read that even Kenya got a warning, that they would be disbarred if they did not clean up their scene. A lot of Kenyans caught doping it seems.
 
You are on the right track with this argument. Russia is quite a courrupt country so there's no reason why coaches would be exempt from this vice.

Meldonium costs less than a few packets of chewing gum so hardly a state sanctioned doping program.

The Madrid doping lab was shut down the other day and the reality is that lots of countries are being tripped up by bureaucratic protocols as much as for 'cheating'.

ScentOfDefeat said:
I'm more inclined to believe the opposite, that it's because there's not enough government control that these athletes - who communicate amongst themselves - are doping individually but within a certain culture that's predisposed to doing that. I refuse to believe that a government led by an ex-KGB agent would have a national doping policy that systematically fails at the first hurdle.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
The reality is American state policy wants Russia banned from everything and anything so the mass media is full of state-inspired stories.

It's not that there is no truth to the stories, but any number of other countries have problems but they are in the American orbit so little is said.

It all comes to a head this weekend when the decision is made about excluding Russian athletics from the Olympics, so propaganda is in over-drive.
 
Last edited:
Bartelby said:
The reality is American state policy wants Russia banned from everything and anything so the mass media is full of state-inspired stories.

It's not that there is no truth to the stories, but any number of other countries have problems but they are in the American orbit so little is said.

It all comes to a head this weekend when the decision is made about excluding Russian athletics from the Olympics, so propaganda is in over-drive.
Click to expand...
My position is that the Russians are almost certainly doping in some state-sponsored capacity, and as such should be excluded.

However I also think that America easily could be too, but crucially we do not have similar evidence for that at this stage (and I agree with you that that's probably due to a pro-US slant on the part of WADA).

But I still think Russia/Pova need to be punished and banned, as that evidence is still there no matter why or how it was uncovered.
It's just too bad that the US won't be held to the same standard.
 
So in other words, whatever politics is involved here, we need a zero tolerance policy on doping (i.e. cheating).
 
It's still the case that the greatest cheat in the history of sport was Lance Armstrong and US Postal. Russia is still a poor second to such American exceptionalism.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
I'm more inclined to believe the opposite, that it's because there's not enough government control that these athletes - who communicate amongst themselves - are doping individually but within a certain culture that's predisposed to doing that. I refuse to believe that a government led by an ex-KGB agent would have a national doping policy that systematically fails at the first hurdle.
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem of both things existing at the same time and who said that it was not the intention of the said ex-KGB member to let them get caught in the first place?

It is not the russian culture per se, so any talk about the russians being succeptible to "cheating" more than any other nation is, of course, BS.

:cool:
 
Tennis_Hands said:
I don't see a problem of both things existing at the same time and who said that it was not the intention of the said ex-KGB member to let them get caught in the first place?

It is not the russian culture per se, so any talk about the russians being succeptible to "cheating" more than any other nation is, of course, BS.

:cool:
Click to expand...

Why would he want them to get caught?
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
Why would he want them to get caught?
Click to expand...

He needs the people inside the country to believe that the western world is turning against their nation, so everything in which russians are involved (in a negative way) is being used by his propaganda to illustrate that to his own people.

Then, of course, comes He as their protector and fights the evil on their behalf.

And if there is someone who doesn't want him to be his representative he is quickly silenced (the examples are many and Nemzov is just the latest more popular such).

So, actually involving russians in questionable situations plays in his hands.

That is what true KGB agents do.

:cool:
 
Last edited:
Tennis_Hands said:
He needs the people inside the country to believe that the western world is turning against their nation, so everything in which russians are involved (in a negative way) is being used by his propaganda to illustrate that to his own people.

Then, of course, comes He as their protector and fights the evil on their behalf.

And if there is someone, who doesn't want him to be his representative, he is quickly silenced (the examples are many and Nemzov is just the latest more popular such).

So, actually involving russians in questionable situations plays in his hands.

That is what true KGB agents do.

:cool:
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. Machiavellian!
 
Anti-Russian paranoia on full display here. No wonder Sharapova has been thrown under a bus. Meldonium was banned as a scary drug so Russia could be kicked out of the Olympics.

Barry - you are the real Marchiavelli - so just stop it!
 
@Bartelby having another go at those windmills. At least you admit Russia is corrupt. And Armstrong is another of your classic straw man misdirections - he didn't need any team help doping.

Earth to @Bartelby - Barry is busy keeping the Chinese navy out of Long Beach harbor. Your sad collapsing country isn't worth his time/effort. Europe has Brexit to worry about. Putin is only slightly more annoying than the N Korean nutbag.
 
BALCO

(Barry begged us to put a marine base in and even came to the opening, so you need us in your pivot to Asia, apparently)
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain.

In before @Dedans Penthouse repoasts the National Lampoon's cover with that "female" Russian athlete from the 1970s.

LMFAO
Click to expand...

Now this is dumbing it down. plus the Trump support RULES! (no, I really mean that; the tennis players I know (let alone these POGUES here on TW) are totes lib). Once the Don wins, clay & grass will make a triumphant return to the US courts, after several years of our money spent supporting the very same immigrants that the British are battling (sorry, cheap plug, to support secession from the EU).
 
"Rodchenko later told the New York Times that he had doped 15 medallists at the Sochi Winter Olympics in 2014 and gave a detailed description of how Russian secret service agents allegedly swapped samples."

Note to @Bartelby - I checked - there are no US Postal service employees or contractors named 'Rodchenko'. And BALCO was a private company - your conspiracy theory has no clothes. There's no disputing numerous individuals from the US have used PEDs - zero evidence of any coordinated effort.

If anything, one could make the case that the IOC/IAFF left Russia cheat too long - now they are shocked for getting penalized. A case could also be made for keeping all the Russians out of Rio.
 
Never trust a traitor these days. They do it for the money and you pay for what you get! It's all Barry's doing. If he wants them banned, then that's what happens in Empire.
 
dlk said:
Now this is dumbing it down. plus the Trump support RULES! (no, I really mean that; the tennis players I know (let alone these POGUES here on TW) are totes lib). Once the Don wins, clay & grass will make a triumphant return to the US courts, after several years of our money spent supporting the very same immigrants that the British are battling (sorry, cheap plug, to support secession from the EU).
Click to expand...
The British newscasts used to say, when there was a storm that made passage to/from Europe impossible, that "Europe is isolated again". LMFAO
 
So if America engages in 'conspiracies' to assassinate, why would they not engage in 'conspiracies' to shut an enemy out of an important international event?:

Following World War II, the United States became secretly engaged in a practice of international political assassinations and attempts on foreign leaders. For a considerable period of time, the U.S. Government officials vehemently denied any knowledge of this program since it would be against the United Nations Charter.

The Church Committee uncovered that CIA and other governmental agencies employed a so-called tactic of "plausible deniability" during decision-making related to assassinations. CIA subordinates were deliberately shielding the higher-ranking officials from any responsibility by withholding full amount of information about planned assassinations. Government employees were obtaining tacit approval of their acts by using euphemisms and sly wording in communications.[2]

The Church Committee stated that it substantiated eight attempts by the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro in 1960-1965.

West Coast Ace said:
your conspiracy theory has no clothes.
Click to expand...
 
Bartelby said:
So if America engages in 'conspiracies' to assassinate, why would they not engage in 'conspiracies' to shut an enemy out of an important international event?:

Following World War II, the United States became secretly engaged in a practice of international political assassinations and attempts on foreign leaders. For a considerable period of time, the U.S. Government officials vehemently denied any knowledge of this program since it would be against the United Nations Charter.

The Church Committee uncovered that CIA and other governmental agencies employed a so-called tactic of "plausible deniability" during decision-making related to assassinations. CIA subordinates were deliberately shielding the higher-ranking officials from any responsibility by withholding full amount of information about planned assassinations. Government employees were obtaining tacit approval of their acts by using euphemisms and sly wording in communications.[2]

The Church Committee stated that it substantiated eight attempts by the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro in 1960-1965.
Click to expand...

Really? What news-source does this exciting, surprisingly truthful, story originate from? See who owns America's media...(the same media that shackleford quotes, only 180 degrees in the other direction. Good Lord man, I expect better from you, where's your source? And don't say New York Times or Washington Post, or any stein-lead maxim.
 
Bartelby said:
So if America engages in 'conspiracies' to assassinate, why would they not engage in 'conspiracies' to shut an enemy out of an important international event?:

Following World War II, the United States became secretly engaged in a practice of international political assassinations and attempts on foreign leaders. For a considerable period of time, the U.S. Government officials vehemently denied any knowledge of this program since it would be against the United Nations Charter.

The Church Committee uncovered that CIA and other governmental agencies employed a so-called tactic of "plausible deniability" during decision-making related to assassinations. CIA subordinates were deliberately shielding the higher-ranking officials from any responsibility by withholding full amount of information about planned assassinations. Government employees were obtaining tacit approval of their acts by using euphemisms and sly wording in communications.[2]

The Church Committee stated that it substantiated eight attempts by the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro in 1960-1965.
Click to expand...
If someone was getting wacked by the CIA they probably did something to deserve it. :D
 
The Church Committee findings are now a matter of historical fact so that's why I chose it. One could also talk about drones if one wanted to be 'newsy'.

I can't see why it's so difficult to understand why Barry would want Ras-Putin out of the games and pull all policy levers to ensure it.

I'm sure with the passage of time this will be revealed to be the case, as people start to brag about their small role in it all.
 
Here's a great account of Vladimir Plato's ethical remarks on Western injustice to individual Russian athletes.

To put it bluntly, he's defending ethical universalism and attacking Western-style collective punishment:


He said: "There are universally recognised principles of law and one of them is that the responsibility should be always personified.

"If some of the members of your family have committed a crime, would it be fair to hold all the members of the family liable, including you? That is not how it's done.

"The people who have nothing to do with violations, why should they suffer for those who committed the violations?"
 
Bartelby said:
So if America engages in 'conspiracies' to assassinate, why would they not engage in 'conspiracies' to shut an enemy out of an important international event?:
Click to expand...
Uh, the US is kinda busy: China trying to annex the entire ocean off of Asia; the Middle East; the jobless 'recovery' - to name a few.

And Barry's not trying to embarrass Russia - the world knows you just don't care what anyone thinks.

If Putin had a team in the NBA finals, I might believe you. But the only thing that matters with the Olympics is NBC making heinous profits. If Barry really wanted to help our Olympic team, the Jamaicans would be watching on TV.
 
I didn't say Barry cares about the Olympics, but he's busy trying to drive the Abrams up to the Russian border and Crimea means Russia still has its warm water port. He's most annoyed by this disobedience.
 
nikolaï-Tcherkassov-ds-alexandre_nevski-de-Eisenstein.jpg
 
You have me on the list of people you follow. As I said, I lead and you follow. It's interesting to be stalked by an obsessive.
 
Last edited:
As previously noted, it's the case that all clean Russian athletes will be able to compete under the Russian flag despite the IAAF ban. Of course, those taking placebos like Sharapova are excluded:

The International Olympic Committee 'respects' the IAAF's decision to uphold a ban on Russian athletes ahead of the forthcoming Rio Olympics.

The IAAF last week announced that Russia will not be able to compete at the Games after failing to meet certain criteria following a suspension for doping offences.

And today IOC chief Thomas Bach confirmed his 'respect and approval and support' for the decision, but opened the door to athletes given 'special clearance' by the IAAF to compete.

Any competitor from Russia or Kenya wishing to take part in the Olympics will need to be individually evaluated and declared eligible by their sport's international federation, Olympic chief Bach added.

The special measure is being introduced because of the unsatisfactory state of anti-doping bodies in the two countries, which Bach said put "very serious doubts on the presumption of innocence".

Bach told the summit cleared athletes could compete under the Russian flag this summer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bartelby
WADA: Do we really need it?
2 3 4
Replies
156
Views
9K
Checkmate
Checkmate
Bartelby
CAS exonerates Russian athletes of doping allegations
Replies
13
Views
1K
Crocodile
Crocodile
Steve0904
Report: Russian hockey hit by mass doping scandal
Replies
7
Views
783
Bartelby
Bartelby
F
Belgian pair's ban is appealed
Replies
13
Views
2K
David_Is_Right
David_Is_Right
Bartelby
  • Locked
If doping is rife in athletics, then ...
6 7 8
Replies
379
Views
27K
moonballs
moonballs
Back
Top