Get ready for another Fortress to fall: Djokovic wants to play longer than Fed

weakera

Legend
Not quite sure what Djokovic is gonna do when he's outgrinded. I don't think he really has teh forehand to force issues much, though his serve has been amazing this year.
Like Nadal, he can adopt a more aggressive approach when his wheels begin to wear down. He also had an extremely successful change to a slightly bigger racket in '18 and can go bigger again later in his career.
 
Can you tell me what ATGs from 9 years older to 4 years younger (born in 1972-85) did Federer have to face in his career, if ATGs are so important?

Fed fans always tell me that ATGs are players like others, and Baghdatis/Gonzalez can play just as good as them.
I would say Wawa was close. But that's my point, he faced Rafa and Djoker for almost his entire career, so he did have to deal with 2 ATG's. Imagine a 26 year old Fed facing Djoker at WC? Fed wins.
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
I would say Wawa was close. But that's my point, he faced Rafa and Djoker for almost his entire career, so he did have to deal with 2 ATG's. Imagine a 26 year old Fed facing Djoker at WC? Fed wins.
It's his penance for having nothing but bacteria to deal with in his glory days. Now he has to deal with giants. Karma.
Fair
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Very doubtful that Novak can have a 20-year career like RF.

However, Nadal has already reeached or beaten some of RF's longevity records, so...

GAS, the Great Age Shift proves that RF's longevity isn't the huge deal it was 30 years ago.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Not quite sure what Djokovic is gonna do when he's outgrinded. I don't think he really has teh forehand to force issues much, though his serve has been amazing this year.
I've witnessed several practice sessions of Novak's in person. Trust me, he has a FH so huge it would make your head spin. He simply chooses to play more tactically because that has worked for him the most.

If forced to become more agressive due to age, he will. Just as Nadal. And he has the arsenal to do it.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
...Djokovic, himself one of the most durable players in history, has his eye on extending his longevity even past Fed's...so my question is: Do you think he can do it and if so how will his results compare to Fed's?
So long as Fed keeps playing, no he can never play longer than Fed.
It's like asking, can Djoker ever be older than Fed?
 

beard

Professional
I would say Wawa was close. But that's my point, he faced Rafa and Djoker for almost his entire career, so he did have to deal with 2 ATG's. Imagine a 26 year old Fed facing Djoker at WC? Fed wins.
Shoulda or woulda win :D
Or even, shoulda and woulda win in same time...
 

aditya123

Semi-Pro
Fed is a devil .... His appearance doesn't suggest so because of the costly make ups and haircuts. But just rewind and watch 2003 videos of him and his peers aka Roddick ,Nalbandian and others. It was evident that he was boss in terms of physicality and endurance. I doubt if Djoker would have an as long career as Fed.
 

ibbi

Hall of Fame
It's nice to aspire to it, and good luck to him if he is able, but his body is already becoming more and more susceptible to injury, and you would imagine that is only going to get worse as he gets older, not better, and he is... SIX YEARS YOUNGER than Federer. Gonna be a long, long road. Maybe if he plays less and less he can get across that line, but how much does that count for? Federer this year played the fullest schedule that he has in 4 years. That's crazy.
 
That's the best grass court tennis I have ever seen. Agassi was not even bad, he played almost as well as he could but Sampras was just in the zone.
Agassi got less than half 2nd serves in.
Sampras @ 1995 Wimbledon SF/F was just as good, peak Ivanisevic > peak Agassi on grass though
 

TennisFan3

Legend
Peter Sampras and his fans are true gentlemen. They never put excuses for the losses.

Sampras lost against a well-playing Roger. Nothing else. Federer was better that day. No single Sampras fan has ever called Sampras old for that match (he was 29 in the Wimbledon 2001 match, so it would be ridiculous to excuse the loss with age).

28 years young Federer lost to Berdych at Wimbledon 2010. Obviously, age cannot be a factor in that loss. Does it mean Berdych is better than Federer on grass just for one match?

And a Federer aged 29 lost to Tsonga at Wimbledon 2011. Does it mean Tsonga is better than Federer just for one match?
Excellent post. Some people overanalyze based on one match. Fed deserved to win vs Sampras - no excuses. But it's one match and didn't automatically quality Fed as better than Sampras (at that time).
 
DjokerGOAT has a new top-secret spiritual guru who is showing him how to stop aging by simply visualizing a younger self.
With such enlightened guidance, I am certain that the Djokobliterator will outlast Fraud.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
It is very clear at this point that Djokovic is very motivated (and in good position) to try to break all of Roger's key records (Slam titles, weeks at #1 and longevity records such as most singles titles, which Roger has a good chance to own by end of 2020 or early 2021). I think Roger, unless he wins a Slam next year, should retire in 2021. There is a good group of youngsters who I think has a better shot at halting Djokovic's ambitions if Roger is not around. Think about it, it will be harder for Djokovic to get through 3 straight rounds (QF, SF, F) of, say, Thiem, Tsitsipas and Medvedev than with Fed mixed in. I hate to say it but at this stage Roger is mentally handicapped in big matches against Djokovic. It almost doesn't matter how well Fed plays, bc in the key moments he gets tight. I certainly hope Roger has a last hurrah in a Slam final where he finally takes down Djokovic, but that would be a blissful surprise rather than a realistic expectation.
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
Yeah
It is very clear at this point that Djokovic is very motivated to try to break Roger's key records (Slam titles, weeks at #1 and longevity records such as most singles titles, which Roger has a good chance to own by end of 2020 or early 2021. I think Roger, unless he wins a Slam next year, should retire in 2021. There is a good group of youngsters who I think has a better shot at halting Djokovic's ambitions if Roger is not around. Think about it, it will be harder for Djokovic to get through 3 straight rounds (QF, SF, F) of, say, Thiem, Tsitsipas and Medvedev than with Fed mixed in. I hate to say it but at this stage Roger is mentally handicapped in big matches against Djokovic. It almost doesn't matter how well Fed plays, bc in the key moments he gets tight. I certainly hope Roger has a last hurrah in a Slam final where he finally takes down Djokovic, but that would be blissful surprise rather than a realistic expectation.
Yeah, basically re-apply his own strategy of waiting for others to take out Nadal so he could squeak into a GS final and strategically tank when it was inevitable to the current situation so MuGGen can take out Novak for him
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
DjokerGOAT has a new top-secret spiritual guru who is showing him how to stop aging by simply visualizing a younger self.
With such enlightened guidance, I am certain that the Djokobliterator will outlast Fraud.
Doesn't really need one, he's got grandpas to the left of him and clowns to the right
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
It is very clear at this point that Djokovic is very motivated (and in good position) to try to break all of Roger's key records (Slam titles, weeks at #1 and longevity records such as most singles titles, which Roger has a good chance to own by end of 2020 or early 2021). I think Roger, unless he wins a Slam next year, should retire in 2021. There is a good group of youngsters who I think has a better shot at halting Djokovic's ambitions if Roger is not around. Think about it, it will be harder for Djokovic to get through 3 straight rounds (QF, SF, F) of, say, Thiem, Tsitsipas and Medvedev than with Fed mixed in. I hate to say it but at this stage Roger is mentally handicapped in big matches against Djokovic. It almost doesn't matter how well Fed plays, bc in the key moments he gets tight. I certainly hope Roger has a last hurrah in a Slam final where he finally takes down Djokovic, but that would be a blissful surprise rather than a realistic expectation.
Superb post but I'm surprised you want Federer to play on until 2021 :oops:

While it's true that he's giving himself chances, it's not the same as winning. You can come 2nd a half-dozen times but they won't add up to a title. If he's happy collecting runner-up titles, so be it but IMO, I think he's overstayed his welcome and should bow out quickly and gracefully.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Can you imagine the OP's actual life? It's gotta be utterly miserable to endlessly post hated-filled garbage day after day.
I take it you weren't around this forum in those days when simply saying something nice about Sampras attracted angry Federer lovers like a swarm of bees? Ask around if you think I'm exaggerating.

What goes around comes around. Now that Federer's records themselves are on the verge of being broken, his fans here have lost their venom in the face of the Sampras-fans onslaught. Be glad that @SaintPetros is at least going about his bashing like a true gentleman :)
 
Peter Sampras and his fans are true gentlemen. They never put excuses for the losses.

Sampras lost against a well-playing Roger. Nothing else. Federer was better that day. No single Sampras fan has ever called Sampras old for that match (he was 29 in the Wimbledon 2001 match, so it would be ridiculous to excuse the loss with age).

28 years young Federer lost to Berdych at Wimbledon 2010. Obviously, age cannot be a factor in that loss. Does it mean Berdych is better than Federer on grass just for one match?

And a Federer aged 29 lost to Tsonga at Wimbledon 2011. Does it mean Tsonga is better than Federer just for one match?
I have never been able to understand why some Federer fans can't just admit that his dip in 2010 was a loss of FORM and have to suggest he was old at 28 (I'm sorry, I forgot to round up. Of course, he was 29. I mean 30. I mean 50. I mean 100).

EVERY player ever to play tennis has lost form at some point and had an inexplicably poor run of results for no logical reason. It's just how it goes. The spring and summer of 2010 was one such run for Federer. He would play much better than he did in that stretch many years later, so it just wasn't due to age. Indeed, even in 2019 he has had periods of form that were better than his form in mid-2010. Given that his last real run of poor form prior to that period in 2010 was in 2003, it was a long time coming, but it was inevitable eventually. (Yes, he had mini dips in spring 2007 and spring 2008, too. But neither of them was a major loss of form as 2010 was).
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Good luck to him, but I don't see it happening. For Djokovic, I think it's another 2-3 years max.
It depends on how quickly he breaks Federer's records. He won't stop until he gets those records but if he does get them quickly, you may be right.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
It depends on how quickly he breaks Federer's records. He won't stop until he gets those records but if he does get them quickly, you may be right.
Djokovic may get there in 3 years with the current field. It would be surreal if we have 3 champions with 20 slams. Something I'd never imagined possible in my wildest dreams.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
Superb post but I'm surprised you want Federer to play on until 2021 :oops:

While it's true that he's giving himself chances, it's not the same as winning. You can come 2nd a half-dozen times but they won't add up to a title. If he's happy collecting runner-up titles, so be it but IMO, I think he's overstayed his welcome and should bow out quickly and gracefully.
Well, I would like him to break Connors record of 109 singles titles. He might break it next year if he has a good year, but if not he will need 2021. It's no guarantee either. Although Rog still has a good shot to win a Masters or two each year and some 500 tournaments (Basel, Halle, maybe Dubai), they are not automatic by any means.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Superb post but I'm surprised you want Federer to play on until 2021 :oops:

While it's true that he's giving himself chances, it's not the same as winning. You can come 2nd a half-dozen times but they won't add up to a title. If he's happy collecting runner-up titles, so be it but IMO, I think he has overstayed his welcome and should bow out quickly and gracefully.
Why so much h8? It is not good for your Jainist soul, Sunny.

fedr is #3 in the world, has won four titles (possibly 5) including a M1K and continues to be relevant at every tournament by reaching R16 or better every time he played.

I’m sure Nadal would like him to retire...non-RG slams would be easier to win.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Well, I would like him to break Connors record of 109 singles titles. He might break it next year if he has a good year, but if not he will need 2021. It's no guarantee either. Although Rog still has a good shot to win a Masters or two each year and some 500 tournaments (Basel, Halle, maybe Dubai), they are not automatic by any means.
Alright, got it now.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Why so much h8? It is not good for your Jainist soul, Sunny.

fedr is #3 in the world, has won four titles (possibly 5) including a M1K and continues to be relevant at every tournament by reaching R16 or better every time he played.

I’m sure Nadal would like him to retire...non-RG slams would be easier to win.
Otha Tom ... what a thrill to see you in these parts of the forum :) Sorry, Petros is bringing out the worst in me. I simply can't resist the opportunity to take shots and Petros is giving me a steady supply of ammunition :)

As for Nadal, I've said this before but I'll say it again ... considering that Nadal hasn't beaten either Djokovic or Federer off clay in more time than I can remember, I'm surprised he is right on the doorstep of Federer's record :oops:
 

SaintPetros

Hall of Fame
Nolan just feeling a bit of relevance deprivation ranked 2. The delusions of grandeur with Djokodal are never far from the surface. Neither of those guys are the ball strikers or athletes that Fed is.

Bookmark it haterers.

Gonna last long enough to shatter Fed's slam & #1 record
After that it's anyone's guess
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Otha Tom ... what a thrill to see you in these parts of the forum :) Sorry, Petros is bringing out the worst in me. I simply can't resist the opportunity to take shots and Petros is giving me a steady supply of ammunition :)

As for Nadal, I've said this before but I'll say it again ... considering that Nadal hasn't beaten either Djokovic or Federer off clay in more time than I can remember, I'm surprised he is right on the doorstep of Federer's record :oops:
It is surreal but Nadal has benefited from a lot of luck with Djokovic’s and Federer’s injuries at the hard court slams recently. Nadal is still the man at the French but his US Open wins are all a joke. His draws and opponents have been abysmal in those wins. It takes an incredible amount of luck to play guys like Gasquet, Youzhny, Anderson, Berretini, Medvedev in the final stages of slams. Djokovic would have wiped the floor with Nadal at the US Open if he was unijured in Aussie Open form.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
It is surreal but Nadal has benefited from a lot of luck with Djokovic’s and Federer’s injuries at the hard court slams recently. Nadal is still the man at the French but his US Open wins are all a joke. His draws and opponents have been abysmal in those wins. It takes an incredible amount of luck to play guys like Gasquet, Youzhny, Anderson, Berretini, Medvedev in the final stages of slams. Djokovic would have wiped the floor with Nadal at the US Open if he was unijured in Aussie Open form.
Ray, haven't I said many times before it's best not to go with weak draw theories?

But now that you have, I must say I can't see how Baghdatis, Gonzalez or Cilic who Federer beat are any better than the ones Nadal had to beat. You can only play whoever is across the net from you.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Otha Tom ... what a thrill to see you in these parts of the forum :) Sorry, Petros is bringing out the worst in me. I simply can't resist the opportunity to take shots and Petros is giving me a steady supply of ammunition :)

As for Nadal, I've said this before but I'll say it again ... considering that Nadal hasn't beaten either Djokovic or Federer off clay in more time than I can remember, I'm surprised he is right on the doorstep of Federer's record :oops:
When a player has lost just two matches at one slam in 15 years it’s inevitable to get that total number up there, particularly when it’s a three-horse race. From top to bottom the closest it was after RG’16 (fedr 17, Nadal 14, Joe Kovic 12). Joe Kovic has now closed it to four after fedr had widened that overall first to third gap to eight prior to Wimby’18.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Ray, haven't I said many times before it's best not to go with weak draw theories?

But now that you have, I must say I can't see how Baghdatis, Gonzalez or Cilic who Federer beat are any better than the ones Nadal had to beat. You can only play whoever is across the net from you.
Gonzalez wiped the floor with Nadal at the 07 Aussie. He blew him right off the court with just a booming forehand. It was one of the greatest performances of all time. I’m sorry but beating a Berrettini and Medvedev to win a slam is not the same as beating a Djokovic or another all time great. Nadal has had a ton of luck at the US Open. If Nadal runs into a well playing Federer or a Djokovic on hard court he loses. I can’t wait to see Nadal take his beating at the WTF.
 
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