My point was that despite tennis not being a critical profession, once the new system kicks in, it will continue and the free market will not compel clubs to hire others.
Getting into college coaching!
- Thread starter tennisfan17
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My point was that despite tennis not being a critical profession, once the new system kicks in, it will continue and the free market will not compel clubs to hire others.
sovertennis
Professional
I can't comment on Suresh's theory re: the USPTA-USTA partnership (scheme, collaboration, cartel; whetever you want to call it). I've been USPTA certified for many years. It's been of moderate benefit, but has identified me as a serious and experienced coach (I'm rated as "Elite Professional") when I've applied to work at clubs or camps. This new initiative that all coaches at USTA affiliated clubs must be USPTA certified mystifies me though, especially the aspect that requires all new coaches perform 1500 hours of internship. Tennis coaching is a lousy job for almost anyone who needs to make an actual living (note: I've only ever coached part time; I made a very good living outside of tennis)--there are rarely any benefits, the hours are long and random, the weather determines your schedule and almost every manager at every club regards you as easily replaceable--because you are) so why any intelligent person would spend a year or so working for free in order to obtain job that won't pay much ever, makes no sense to me. The cynic in me says that many clubs will actively seek USPTA interns, use them for a year, then tell them there's no job available after that. The tennis club business is tough. Equipment sales decline year over year. There are fewer and fewer players, especially younger (25-40 years old) ones; the demographic for my clientele is predominantly female, aged 50+ (because, outside of juniors, that's who takes lessons and that's been true for as long as I've coached). The diminishing number of players won't be taking more lessons simply because their new coach just completed a year long internship, or will be club be able to charge more for that lesson. The tennis coaching culture/process in the US is firmly established; that the USTA and USPTA want to make the barrier to entry so formidable will not be feasible or ultimately successful, IMO.
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As I said, you don't work for free. You just work as usual and make it count towards the hours.
Of course that assumes that there are enough positions available. That is the other side of the story. Clubs will need to be pressured to offer paid internships.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
What about establishing relationship and friendships with players ? This is probably one of the most important areas of effective coaching. Is being liked by the players a big factor ? Being respected and being liked are 2 different things. Some coaches thing being respected is more important than being liked. but you have to have both, they are both critical.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
Will these certification changes affect coaches who only coach during summer? A lot of D1 players take summer coaching jobs as well as recent college grads trying the Futures tour who come home and coach for a couple months to save up $ before trying tour again. How often is the current test given? Sounds like any current D1 player who ever thinks he/she might coach should get the easy 8 hr certification this year. Even if they dont plan a tennis career, they could coach until they found a job in their chosen career/major.
Forget the above. I cant believe how expensive it is $200 application plus $350 annual dues-doubt many D1 collegians will pay that now when they can only coach during summer. Guess they will only work for clubs that run UTR events after graduation... USPTA should have a cheaper college membership. Of course this certification could be a blessing in disguise if TDs decide to run tournaments on UTR's platform instead-UTR is offering its platform for tournament management for free this summer for prize $ events but could just be $1000 prize total across all events. USTA could be shooting itself in foot; in Atlanta we have ALTA league so clubs who dont want to use USTA certified pros can just sponsor ALTA teams. Of course, teams would miss out on nationals but maybe UTR will come up with alternate national championships for cities and states with independent leagues.
Link to UTR events for varying UTR levels-most opens: https://www.myutr.com/search?type=e...pen Series,UTR Summer Series&utrFitPosition=6
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bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
How about free? How is the USPTA going to help someone increase the revenue because that's the bottom line.
I, for one, do not hire a tennis coach to my sons or daughter based on the USPTA certification. I hire the coach based on someone recommendation and I do research on the coach. Most of the coaches I hire to teach my son and daughter are from Russia, Romania, and Serbia. They come here on tennis scholarships and decided to stay after graduation. Btw, I pay them $90/hr and none of them have USPTA certifications and do not plan to anytime in the future.
The idea of the USPTA certification is a stupid one, IMHO.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
What evidence do you have to make that statement?
The D1 and D2 players I have known who coach during summer to make some extra cash post on CL or word of mouth and teach on public and apartment courts, so I don't see this as having any effect on them. If they do teach at clubs, I think the certification requirement is only for full-time coaches.
The current certification is 8 hours only for recreational coaches. Regular certification requires stroke testing and a demonstration clinic in addition to the 8 hour online test.
No evidence of course since this is about the future, but look at general trends:
College education is now the new basic requirement for good jobs - has the trend reversed?
Regular training and re-certification is the increasing norm in all professions. People start out by complaining about it, then the big complainers are forced out of the workplace, and the pliant ones remain and multiply.
Bureaucracy, once enabled, always benefits a certain group of people in the beginning, and the numbers grow in a self-perpetuating manner.
Coaches in the US (and other countries already have elaborate certification requirements) who are US citizens might privately prefer these standards so as to not have to compete with South American and Eastern European immigrants who might accept lower wages.
Apparently the system was modeled after the USGA model. Any idea about the situation there?
sovertennis
Professional
I believe the answer would be "no" because the players you're referring to (college kids on summer break) generally work at camps which do not need USTA certification. The coaches who will be affected are those who work at tennis clubs that hold USTA-sanctioned events--leagues, tourneys, etc.
sovertennis
Professional
Tennis Mom--
As well, I believe it would behoove any college (or other) level player who thinks he/she might be interested in tennis coaching to get certified this year (or before the new cert requirements fall into place).
As well, I believe it would behoove any college (or other) level player who thinks he/she might be interested in tennis coaching to get certified this year (or before the new cert requirements fall into place).
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
I am at the technology conference here in San Diego and you will be surprised to find out that quite a bit of young people here are college drop out. You do not need a college degree to get a good technology job(s).
Again, this rule is not enforceable. Unless it is written into law or regulation at the federal or state level, it is is not going to be enforced.
The USTA neither has the resource nor the manpower to enforce this rule. The USTA is neither powerful nor has the resources to throw its weigh around like the USGA. No private clubs like being told what to do.
Plus they are not full-time employees
New reqts start Jan 2020 so you have less than 6 months left! Hurry up.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Many coaches want to be liked but all have to be respected. Some don't give a d@*m either way. Texas Techs women's coach is an absolute a-hole. He talks crap to his own players during matches. The dude makes my skin crawl with some of the things he said to his girls when they came to SC for ITA kick off last year. I've never seen a coach demean their players that way under the guise of coaching. As for being friends with players, thats a no. Sure they're friendly with the players but the players don't get to see behind the coaching curtain. They don't get to really know what the coaches are doing and saying all the time.
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When I was 17 I took a job as an instructor at a summer tennis camp run by a top D1 coach and he gave me 1 of the best pieces of advice I ever got regarding being an instructor, teaching pro and coach, something I still adhere to even to this day. He said 'be friendly but don't be their friend'. People don't always respect or listen to their 'friends', they think of their friends as peers not people of authority. But then on the other hand you don't have to be a jerk and feared to be respected either (something a lot of pros/coaches don't get) there is a very fine line. Walking that fine line is something the best coaches do well. I remember once when I was in college my coach said to me 'this has not been your best week so I going to move you down a spot for the next match, I know you don't like it but I think it's the best for the team right now'. Yes I didn't like it but having my coach tell me that was something I could deal with. If my 'friend' had said that there may have been a fight. It gave me the push to move back up, something I don't think a friend could've done. Sometimes the coaches don't get the credit they deserve.
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Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
Can someone link where this info is stated by the USTA? The following is what I could find on the USTA site:
"Clubs and facilities that hire certified tennis-teaching professionals from USPTA (as a fully accredited organization) will receive a host of benefits. USPTA’s full accreditation provides, among other benefits, the following:
- USPTA-certified tennis professionals and the facilities they work at will receive priority listing on the USTA Net Generation Coaches Search website.
- Co-branded promotions to the public and employers that hire tennis-teaching professionals will highlight the new standards and detail how certified pros from an accredited organization will be Safe Play compliant and background checked. This Safe Play requirement will be conducted at no cost to the individual clubs or pros
- USPTA division conferences and the World Conferences will offer reduced fees for first-time attendees & new members.
- USPTA professionals will enjoy access to an array of online education via the new platform that will be hosted on Blackboard.
- Consumers will enjoy improved customer experience on-court when taught by USPTA Professionals."
- New professionals entering the market will be better prepared and more knowledgeable about the profession". https://www.usta.com/en/home/coach/coaching-accreditation/national/coaching-accreditation-faqs.html
Latest issue of TIA has an article about how the USTA is encouraging the creation of new PTM programs at the bachelors, masters, and certificate level. Certificate sounds OK, but imagine spending 4 years in undergrad or 1-2 years in grad school in order to feed balls to fat adults for the rest of your life.
But in reality clubs will be "encouraged" to promote these grads and fast-track them to Tennis Director positions.
But in reality clubs will be "encouraged" to promote these grads and fast-track them to Tennis Director positions.
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bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
If I am going to spend 4 years undergrad at a good universities like Duke or Notre Dame, I am going to make sure I'll go work for Google or Apple and make a lot of money, not some Tennis Director positions. What is the salary for Tennis Director?
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
Thanks for your response. I am still confused. Has the USTA issued an official statement? The only statement I have seen that states private clubs need to hire certified pros has been issued from the USPTA.
What will happen if clubs refuse to hire USPTA certified pros? The head pro at my club has none of these certifications, despite being the best teaching pro in the area (He coached players currently on the pro tour when they were juniors). There would be a mass member revolt if the club replaced him with a local USPTA professional because none is as competent as the current head pro.
Only USTA-affiliated clubs, not any private club.
This is only about schools which offer the PTM programs.
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
What is a USTA-affiliated club? If a club has USTA adult teams, is that an affiliated club? If the club holds junior USTA tournaments, is that an affiliated club?
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Where I live, a LOT of USTA tennis tournaments, L4 and L5 levels, take place at public tennis courts between April and November. They just rent public courts facilities that have at least 10 tennis courts and hold tennis tournaments there Sat, Sunday and Monday. In this scenario, how many certified USPTA coach must you have?
This come from USTA website:
A degree in Professional Tennis Management is a great start to your career in tennis, whether that means coaching, running a facility or court maintenance. Currently, six schools offer an undergraduate PTM program – Berry College, Ferris State, Hope College, Manhattanville College, Methodist University and the University of Central Florida – a number that figures to rise in the near future.
Tyler Junior College offers a PTM certificate program, and three schools, Bridgewater State University, San Diego State and the University of New Mexico, offer graduate PTM programs.
Do you need a college degree to coach, running a facility or court maintenance? Seriously?
This come from USTA website:
A degree in Professional Tennis Management is a great start to your career in tennis, whether that means coaching, running a facility or court maintenance. Currently, six schools offer an undergraduate PTM program – Berry College, Ferris State, Hope College, Manhattanville College, Methodist University and the University of Central Florida – a number that figures to rise in the near future.
Tyler Junior College offers a PTM certificate program, and three schools, Bridgewater State University, San Diego State and the University of New Mexico, offer graduate PTM programs.
Do you need a college degree to coach, running a facility or court maintenance? Seriously?
I don't have the source anymore, but I remember reading that clubs which run USTA-sanctioned tournaments will fall into the category of being required to hire only accredited people as full-time coaches. Not sure about leagues.
I am not sure what affiliated means, but it will usually involve some kind of financial support and promotion by the USTA, I assume.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
No, you need the Master's PTM degree
If my children major Master TPM in college, they will be on their own. No tuition support from me.
Holdfast44ID
Semi-Pro
I was a USPTA pro and taught for ten years or so before moving on to IT. Really, the only way to make money at a club is to be the director. Depending on the deal with the club, you may or may not get to take home a good percentage of the tennis money. One club let the director keep 100% while a greedy owner of another club would take 50% of the money (that club has gone through many unhappy pros). You hire a bunch of hourly pros, run multiple junior and adult programs, group and private lessons and keep the extra profits minus what you pay your staff. I was a head pro and did not like the hustling involved to just make ends meet and I didn't want to relocate or wait for someone to die or retire to have a chance at a director position. Now, college coaching would be more interesting and stable, perhaps with better pay depending on the school. Might make a fun retirement job for me. I still know college head coaches in the business who coached me and coached against me over 30 years ago! Guess I should ask them when they plan to retire. Lol
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