Giving 8.0 mixed one more try and then that's it

[Cindysphinx]

I finished my first 8.0 mixed season last night, and I gotta tell ya, I'm just about done.

I played two matches with a 4.5 partner. We were 1-1.

I played four matches with 4.0 partners. We were 1-3.

Not a great W/L record, to be sure. Of much more concern was *how* we lost when we lost.

Take last night, for instance. I could see were in trouble in the warm-up. We were playing a 4.0 guy with the best serve I have ever seen. It's not that he hit hard, necessarily. It's not that he hit with spin, necessarily.

It was his placement. He could consistently bang the serve to one corner of the box or the other. I couldn't read it and got aced repeatedly. My partner did no better, also getting aced frequently. I finally just started to guess and go, and I hit some good returns that way. But even when I took off running toward the likely serve location with my racket stuck out to try to bunt it back, I rarely could start the point.

Equally troubling was what happened when I was returning in the deuce court. The woman would serve up the middle, and he would pick off whatever return I tried to make. Lobs got smashed. Solid BH returns were intercepted. Attempts to do more with the ball were misses. His partner was doing nothing except screwing up whenever we managed to get the ball to her, yet we couldn't break her. Meanwhile, I only held once by serving with so much action on the ball that my arm feels like it is going to fall off today.

Eh, I figured. He's going to get bumped to 4.5. Nope. He will remain 4.0 despite some very strong results.

I don't feel like I am getting anything out of these matches. I can usually serve and rally well enough with the woman to hold my own, but I am helpless against the guy if he can smoke his return back at me and intercept every ball I put into play. Both of my wins have been against 4.5 woman/3.5 guy pairs. Which confirms exactly what I am feeling: It is pretty pointless for me to try to play against strong 4.0 guys without a crazy-strong partner to look out for me.

One of my good friends is going to quit 8.0, and most of my teammates don't even bother and play 7.0 or skip mixed entirely. Now maybe I know why?

 

[Fedace]

You would expect to see some 4.5 Man in 8.0 division. So that is NO surprise. I am not sure what the complaint is. What you saw there is perfectly normal.
you do occasionally have to go for the alley of the guy when the weak girl serves,,,otherwise he will just run and poach every single time.

 

[NLBwell]

Cindy,
You were 2 and 4 in the league. That isn't too bad, only one match from being .500. Weren't you worried about playing in the league at all?
You have found out one of the keys to a strong mixed team. There are usually two ways to win. One is to have the best woman. Since you want to avoid the man, most of the points are woman to woman. However, the other way is to have a quick aggressive man who can: 1) be aggressive, cut off shots, and attack the opponents' woman and similarly, 2) take as many balls as possible to protect his partner from being attacked. This is the situation you found yourself.
That is the game of mixed doubles at lower levels (at higher levels with better accuracy and more velocity it is harder to take more than your share of the balls). If you don't enjoy it, you don't have to play. I've gone back and forth on mixed over the years. If you are going to play, think about how to form your teams with this in mind.

As far as the guy being a 4.0 vs. 4.5, I've lost in mixed when my partner is far better than the opponents' woman and I am overall a far better player than the opponents' man. In singles, he wouldn't win more than a couple games from me. However, the guys were extremely quick and mobile (much more than me), especially at the net and could make the game into the guy playing my partner. It doesn't mean he necessarily is a 4.5 player.

 

[polski]

Is your goal to not improve? You have the perfect plan for that.

 

[Connors Fan]

I have not posted hear before, but have read many of your posts Cindy. They are often funny and interesting.

Reading this one, and some others, Im curious as to what you are wanting to get out of your tennis? I think whatever your motivation is, is fine, as we all have our reasons for playing, or doing anything really. It seems to me, that if you know the reason you play, many of the questions will be answered for you.

Something that seems to resonate in your posts, is irritation over losing, stemming from league set up, partners, etc.

If winning is the reason you play (certainly nothing wrong with that) then maybe you should play with the partner and level of tennis that gives you the best chance at that.

As to wether its pointless to continue, once again, you have to ask yourself why you are playing. Your posts are often pretty detailed about why you lost, why the partnership is not working, why you need to make a change. These lessons all come from losses. Winning is fun, the flip side is we learn very little from it. Losing sucks, yet the lessons are often very profound.

Seems like the losing sometimes gets you down, but maybe you should think instead about all its taught you.

Then again, you could take an easier road and just rack up some wins, thats lots of fun too!

Gl on your decision.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Is your goal to not improve? You have the perfect plan for that.

Would playing 8.0 mixed really help me improve, though?

After my match, I watched some of another match. A 4.0 woman v. my 3.5 teammate and her 4.0 partner. You know what I saw from both women?

Survival mode. They were just pushing and bunting and steering the ball. That's no big deal, but I know they can both hit better than that. They were hitting so poorly because they were so overmatched.

Isn't there a point where you are in so far over your head that you are just pushing or reverting to old, bad strokes? I guess the real question is whether you get anything out of being in survival mode.

ConnorsFan, welcome aboard and thanks for the kind and thoughtful words. What do I want? It's a hobby, so I want to have fun. What's fun? Winning, of course. But the main thing that is fun is hitting a great shot and feeling that smack when the ball hits the sweet spot and does just what I want. Also fun is the self-delusion that comes with hitting a great shot -- we all know that nothing a 3.5 player is "great."

So I'd say the feeling of hitting a shot well that I couldn't hit at all not so long ago is the reason I play. And I'm not feeling it in 8.0 mixed.

After the match, I rallied with my partner. I hit just the way I am supposed to. Why didn't I hit groundstrokes like that in the match? I never got the chance.

 

[Cpetford95]

you should try moving down to the 3.5... or just get a really good partner

 

[Connors Fan]

Seems you just answered your own question Cindy.

I can certainly understand your frustration with being overmatched to the point of not being able to execute your shots. Sound like it might have moved beyond tough learning experiences to simple unpleasantness.

I am recently back from let me see, a 25 year hiatus. smile. Blah blah, high school tennis team player blah blah, looking to recapture lost glory? Anyway last night I was playing against a lefty with a nice serve and I could not adapt to the opposite spin, and simply felt embarrased by my failure on the return of serve. The rest of the match was competitive enough to keep me working, that and my partner was a great guy who just laughed and said now worries. I can see how feeling helpless in the most of the phases of the match, would be very disheartning.

Hopefully you can find that level of competitiveness that best meets your needs, and enjoy the journey of finding it.

I like your sig by the way.

 

[Cpetford95]

you hardly even played that many matches

 

[Fedace]

you play alot. how do you play so often and still keep the body going ?

 

[NoSkillzAndy]

I agree that mixed doubles can be frustrating at times, especially in the combo leagues if there is a large disparity in levels. As a 3.5, you really should have a 4.5 guy as a partner every time to help balance things out. If you don't, it's going to be rough no matter what you do...

 

[spaceman_spiff]

I think you are getting a lot out of these matches, but you probably don't realize it.

Truthfully, if you could take serves, groundstrokes, etc., from 4.0 or 4.5 men and consistently respond with aggressive shots, you wouldn't be playing 3.5 or 4.0 women's leagues. You can't expect yourself to hit winners off their serves or boss them around in a rally. When they hit powerful shots, it should make you struggle.

The point is to get used to their pace so that you can develop an effective defensive game (low, angled blocks and well-placed lobs) that will give you a chance to hang in the point. Then, if you do get a sight at a weaker ball, you can step up and hit your aggressive shots.

Also, you need to develop your peripheral vision and your trickery in order to deal with those guys that keep running across the net. You have to be able to see him move and prove that you can hit it behind him. In fact, on your very first return against his partner's serve, you should smash one as hard as you can DTL, just to make a point.

You can't make all these improvements in one season. But, if you stick with it, you'll get there. And, once you do, your women's league matches should get easier as well.

 

[eliza]

are you right

I finished my first 8.0 mixed season last night, and I gotta tell ya, I'm just about done.

I played two matches with a 4.5 partner. We were 1-1.

I played four matches with 4.0 partners. We were 1-3.

Not a great W/L record, to be sure. Of much more concern was *how* we lost when we lost.

Take last night, for instance. I could see were in trouble in the warm-up. We were playing a 4.0 guy with the best serve I have ever seen. It's not that he hit hard, necessarily. It's not that he hit with spin, necessarily.

It was his placement. He could consistently bang the serve to one corner of the box or the other. I couldn't read it and got aced repeatedly. My partner did no better, also getting aced frequently. I finally just started to guess and go, and I hit some good returns that way. But even when I took off running toward the likely serve location with my racket stuck out to try to bunt it back, I rarely could start the point.

Equally troubling was what happened when I was returning in the deuce court. The woman would serve up the middle, and he would pick off whatever return I tried to make. Lobs got smashed. Solid BH returns were intercepted. Attempts to do more with the ball were misses. His partner was doing nothing except screwing up whenever we managed to get the ball to her, yet we couldn't break her. Meanwhile, I only held once by serving with so much action on the ball that my arm feels like it is going to fall off today.

Eh, I figured. He's going to get bumped to 4.5. Nope. He will remain 4.0 despite some very strong results.

I don't feel like I am getting anything out of these matches. I can usually serve and rally well enough with the woman to hold my own, but I am helpless against the guy if he can smoke his return back at me and intercept every ball I put into play. Both of my wins have been against 4.5 woman/3.5 guy pairs. Which confirms exactly what I am feeling: It is pretty pointless for me to try to play against strong 4.0 guys without a crazy-strong partner to look out for me.

One of my good friends is going to quit 8.0, and most of my teammates don't even bother and play 7.0 or skip mixed entirely. Now maybe I know why?

I concur, fully. I practiced with 4.0s and a 4.5 and it was brutal, but at least in practice you can say "hey, I will get faster with my feet and my reflexes will be better", which indeed happened.
But as for leagues, waste of your time and money, and you saw it, you did not gain a point.
Like you said, playing well should be our primary goal.
I wish I could say with time you will be there, but how realistic is for an adult?
This point I want to put on the table:
HOW MUCH CAN AN ADULT (inevitably subject to aging) IMPROVE?

 

[Bud]

I finished my first 8.0 mixed season last night, and I gotta tell ya, I'm just about done.

I played two matches with a 4.5 partner. We were 1-1.

I played four matches with 4.0 partners. We were 1-3.

Not a great W/L record, to be sure. Of much more concern was *how* we lost when we lost.

Take last night, for instance. I could see were in trouble in the warm-up. We were playing a 4.0 guy with the best serve I have ever seen. It's not that he hit hard, necessarily. It's not that he hit with spin, necessarily.

It was his placement. He could consistently bang the serve to one corner of the box or the other. I couldn't read it and got aced repeatedly. My partner did no better, also getting aced frequently. I finally just started to guess and go, and I hit some good returns that way. But even when I took off running toward the likely serve location with my racket stuck out to try to bunt it back, I rarely could start the point.

Equally troubling was what happened when I was returning in the deuce court. The woman would serve up the middle, and he would pick off whatever return I tried to make. Lobs got smashed. Solid BH returns were intercepted. Attempts to do more with the ball were misses. His partner was doing nothing except screwing up whenever we managed to get the ball to her, yet we couldn't break her. Meanwhile, I only held once by serving with so much action on the ball that my arm feels like it is going to fall off today.

Eh, I figured. He's going to get bumped to 4.5. Nope. He will remain 4.0 despite some very strong results.

I don't feel like I am getting anything out of these matches. I can usually serve and rally well enough with the woman to hold my own, but I am helpless against the guy if he can smoke his return back at me and intercept every ball I put into play. Both of my wins have been against 4.5 woman/3.5 guy pairs. Which confirms exactly what I am feeling: It is pretty pointless for me to try to play against strong 4.0 guys without a crazy-strong partner to look out for me.

One of my good friends is going to quit 8.0, and most of my teammates don't even bother and play 7.0 or skip mixed entirely. Now maybe I know why?

Sounds like a good situation to force improvements in your game. It also appears you need a specific game plan for this particular team.

You're probably not going to break the male opponent's serve so experiment around with different placement and pace... assuming you're going to lose the point so there should be little pressure. Try to perfect your lob on his serve and just make sure to clear his lady partner at net. With a server like that, it's absolutely critical to have an effective lob that clears the net person and lands deep inside the court. Even male 4.0-4.5 players have difficulty with a great server... so just try to get your racquet on the ball and lob.

Your best bet is breaking the female opponent's serve. Make it your goal to take the serve early and hit it hard down the middle or directly at the male opponent. If he can volley really well, then aim down the middle, only. Tell this to your partner as well. Either hit hard directly at the lady or hard down the middle. You want to force an error or receive a sitter from a tough volley.

When you serve, place all serves at your male opponent's BH side and have your partner play a very aggressive net position to plant some seeds of doubt during his serve return. It's unlikely he can be that aggressive with a small space to hit into... and from the BH side.

It's critical that your male partner holds his serve as well. So, he needs to really go for it on all serves. Again, try serving to the BH side of the male opponent and play a very aggressive net.


To summarize, your primary goals are:

Break you lady opponent's serve whatever the cost

Make sure your team holds serve when your male partner is serving

If you can force a TB, the set is then a crap shoot in which either side can win. Keep yourself in the mix and make your opponents win the set and then the match.

 

[rh310]

This point I want to put on the table:
HOW MUCH CAN AN ADULT (inevitably subject to aging) IMPROVE?

That's an interesting question, and deserves its own thread instead of being buried in this one.

 

[larry10s]

the more you see those type of shots the more routine they become.
if you dont put yourself in position to see it you will never be able to handle it
jmho

 

[Perry the Platypus]

Stick with it Cindy - mixed makes us all better if we focus on the right things. The first step is to realize that 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0 mixed are all different animals. Since your question is about 8.0 I'll focus on that., plus I've played 8.0 for years, both as a 4.0 and a 4.5.

You are right in that you cannot necessarily improve your whole game, but you can improve specific shots. For example:

1) if you can successfully lob, or pass down the line a 4.5 guy when the 3.5 girl is serving, I guarantee you will have a shot that is deadly in 3.5 women's doubles.

2) Close the net! This is good practice for any doubles. Lot's of 3.5 women I play against stay in the back to middle part of the box when at net - easy picking for dipping topspin - I always get my partner to work on closing tight to the net. From up close difficult shots can become easier.

3) don't swing at volleys, you won't have time.

4) Deuce, deuce, deuce - most mixed matches are won or lost dependent on how the girl returns at deuce. You learn to lose your nerves and hit the shots you are more comfortable with.

5) Listen to your partner. He can teach you how to spot tactics and techniques that will help you make the right "guess". You can then look for those same things in your regular matches. If your partner does not talk to you constantly, find a new partner!

6) Serve placement - you want to be able to place your serve at your partner's request to set up points.

7) Finally it will help the game slow down. Play enough (and 4 matches is not enough) and you will see that your 3.5 matches become easier because you have more time.

Trust me, if your 4.5 partner is playing correctly he is also working on things (I've had partner's tell me that I must be bored - not so!). He is at least working on being more aggressive and knowing when to end the point.

Mixed can be a lot of fun!!!

 

[Cindysphinx]

The team captain sent out the final reconciliation, to refund money to those who played less and collect from those who played more.

Guess who played more matches than anyone else?

No wonder our team finished in the basement. They were depending way too much on a 3.5 woman who can't even return serve!

Anyway, thanks for the replies. In response to the brutal question about how much can someone be expected to improve as an adult (read: geezer), I have been wondering about that.

Just a few years ago, I would have gotten a racket on way more of those serves. I was just plain faster. Now, I am starting to feel decidedly slower. Ahem.

Well, first order of business is to learn to lob those shots. My female opponent (in deuce court) lobbed 75% of my partner's serves. We decided to let her keep doing that because my partner was a lefty and was perfectly happy to run over and hit his FH DTL to her. Had he been a righty, that lob return would have been more effective. So I guess I need to do that. My one lob attempt was short and got smashed.

 

[ian2]

I never played competitive mixed so I'll withhold my comments on that aspect. But in general, what you are describing Cindy sounds like a great opportunity to take you game up a notch in a low pressure situation. Yes you heard me right: low pressure. You are expected to be (and realistically are) outmatched against good 4.0 and 4.5 men. I personally find it much easier to play well without a burden of expectations. Sure you are seeing the kinds of serves and poaching you haven't seen before. But you'll adjust to power and speed, and least to a certain degree. To me, a bigger concern would be to develop your own weapons.

And as others have said: you've done quite well in this league so far...

 

[NoSkillzAndy]

Lobs are good. Try not to miss them short or wide, though. Go for depth!

And also don't be afraid to return the guy's serve at the woman. There's no guarantee she'll do anything productive with it, and even if she does it's still better than missing the return.

Rule #1 in tennis is to get the ball in play. At recreational levels you have to make people execute their shots. Assuming that they will is incorrect because if they could execute put-aways every time they'd be higher level -- even the 4.5 guys/gals.

Making the guy and his partner play a bunch of shots on his service game is sure to frustrate him once they start missing some of the routine shots. All you need is one sloppy service game in doubles to turn the tide. From my experience, it's sometimes easier to break the guy than the girl if the guy tends to overplay his shots or the girl struggles to routinely hit put-aways at the net.

 

[athiker]

Would playing 8.0 mixed really help me improve, though?

...

ConnorsFan, welcome aboard and thanks for the kind and thoughtful words. What do I want? It's a hobby, so I want to have fun. What's fun? Winning, of course. But the main thing that is fun is hitting a great shot and feeling that smack when the ball hits the sweet spot and does just what I want. Also fun is the self-delusion that comes with hitting a great shot -- we all know that nothing a 3.5 player is "great."

So I'd say the feeling of hitting a shot well that I couldn't hit at all not so long ago is the reason I play. And I'm not feeling it in 8.0 mixed.

After the match, I rallied with my partner. I hit just the way I am supposed to. Why didn't I hit groundstrokes like that in the match? I never got the chance.

Stick with it Cindy - mixed makes us all better if we focus on the right things. The first step is to realize that 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0 mixed are all different animals. Since your question is about 8.0 I'll focus on that., plus I've played 8.0 for years, both as a 4.0 and a 4.5.

You are right in that you cannot necessarily improve your whole game, but you can improve specific shots. For example:

...

3) don't swing at volleys, you won't have time.

...

7) Finally it will help the game slow down. Play enough (and 4 matches is not enough) and you will see that your 3.5 matches become easier because you have more time.

...

Mixed can be a lot of fun!!!

I think that is part of playing against a better player, either through pace or placement they take away your time. People that beat me never let me get comfortable, don't give me time to set-up and stroke/groove a shot and force me to think and strategize more to set up opportunities.

If they are just plain better than me then no amount of strategizing is going to level the playing field but that doesn't mean it won't help me become a better player. I think as Perry states you will probably see the benefits in the spring 3.5 league as the game will have slowed down for you...more so than if you didn't challenge yourself by playing, and maybe losing, to higher level competition.

Right now you feel you are in "survival mode", pushing shots and not hitting a pretty ball with a nice set-up. But I bet every once in a while, especially since you did win a couple of matches, you stuck a volley vs a very hard hit spinny groundstroke, you returned a serve you never see in 3.5 Spring, you decided to hit all out on a 1st serve and got it in, you tried to end a point a little earlier, at the very first opportunity, since you knew you couldn't win a long point and the shot went in. Maybe these things didn't happen often, but hopefully they happened once in a while and with continued exposure would happen a little more often each time. But as a minimum the game should slow down for you when you face lesser competition.

What do you think the average 2nd serve is going to look like to you now this spring? Hopefully you will be hitting that "sweet spot" a lot easier and more often!

 

[polski]

Isn't there a point where you are in so far over your head that you are just pushing or reverting to old, bad strokes? I guess the real question is whether you get anything out of being in survival mode.

I am a 4.5 male. I would kill for a chance to hit with Federer. I would be in 100% survival mode by minute 3 of warm ups & I would love every second of it.

 

[burosky]

There is something to be said about setting the appropriate expectation. It is quite understandable for a 3.5 woman to have trouble returning a 4.5 man's serve. Your objective should be to return the serve any way you can. If the man is that good, it would also be understandable for the man to hold his serve. Keep in mind though that his partner is a 3.5 just like you. You and your partner's main objective should be to break the woman's serve every time. More often than not, in mixed, the number of times the woman's serve is broken, determines the winner of the match.

You mentioned a couple of problems you had with your return of serve. On the 4.5 man's serve, since he is as good as you described (placement rather than pace or spin), you probably could have closed in more to have a better chance of at least bunting the ball back. Just focus on keeping the ball in play. Good things can happen if you only force your opponent to hit one more shot. Against a placement server the more you stand back the more you will be in trouble. On the 3.5 woman's serve, your problem was the 4.5 guy poaching your returns. You probably could have used the lob more assuming you can control the 3.5 woman's serve. Aside from preventing the 4.5 man from poaching, lobbing creates a situation where either the 4.5 man retrieves the return which pushes him away from the net or if the 3.5 woman ends up taking the shot she is now the one under pressure to hit it away from your partner. Of course you can also try to hit down the line to keep the 4.5 man honest but if the serve consistently goes to the T hitting down the line would be very tough.

As you can see, the next time you play a women's doubles match, you can apply the same ideas you learned from playing 8.0 mixed specially when one of your opponents is dominating like that 4.5 man.

 

[larry10s]

I am a 4.5 male. I would kill for a chance to hit with Federer. I would be in 100% survival mode by minute 3 of warm ups & I would love every second of it.

by minute 3????

 

[LeeD]

See, there you go again, limiting your assension in tennis because you are afraid of the unknown and hate to lose.
Embrace the idea of returning this big server's shots. Lob DEEP CC to his partner, DEEP DTL when guy tries to poach, dink DTL as a fake. You are not taking him out of his comfort zone now. You guys are only trying to return the shots to CC, and he knows that.
Start the point from the baseline, it's more even.
In my experience, most real 3.5's can hang easily with any 4.5 woman.
So you, as a 3.5, can hang with a 3.0 man, but NOT a 4.5 in any way, shape, or form.
You want to win. That is the biggest limiting factor to your ability to get better in tennis. In tennis, you have to lose to learn how to win.

 

[crystal_clear]

In tennis, you have to lose to learn how to win.

Agreed with Lee.

 

[LeeD]

One thing that impressed me was how most champions stress hard work and learning to learn from losing, before they can become winners.
If you can win all the time, you are only doing what you already know how to do.

 

[polski]

by minute 3????

uhhhh....yeah. I've hit with college kids & female professionals. I can hang at that level for 10-15 minutes. When you're talking about a top 5 player in the world...yes, I have no chance.

 

[escii_35]

I find mxd 8.0 vs a 4.5/3.5 combo the most mentally challenging of all the disciplines. (4.0 male singles player side of the story)


High end 4.5 guys will dominate matches, accept it and find a way to win. Winning in survival mode is possible and usually revolves on getting that danged 4.5 out of position and being tidy with the serve.

My favs:

Lob returns off the womans serve.
Threading the slow ball needle to the woman in a way to make it just juicy enough for the 4.5 to steal the shot, opening up oodles of court.
Always play with a woman who is a better net finisher. It makes for easy job distribution and screws with your opponents.
Since we are probably playing a lot of double back on his serve don't worry making the killer return just get -something- started.

Playing against a 4.0/4.0 team is like playing regular mens dubs without the machismo and one serve being easy to attack.

3.5/4.5 combo's are rare and the weakest of all the combos. Just don't hit it to the woman at the net.

 

[Maui19]

I enjoy playing 8.0 mixed. I think it teaches you to really pay attention to what's going on across the net in order to figure how to attack. I play with a 4.5 women who is very consistent and actually puts away the "put away" shots.

 

[duketennisgal]

Cindy, did you try switching sides and playing the ad side? I've found in mixed that if the 4.5 guy is a righty he can pick that ball off that a woman hits from the deuce side to the center of the court but most are not as comfortable poaching with their backhands, don't know why, but that's what I've come across. You may have a better chance at breaking the woman this way, you shouldn't be too worried about returning the guys serve as you stated it was nearly impossible. This would give you a better chance at breaking the woman, if your guy can hold then you just have to really focus on holding your own serve.

 

[LeeD]

Good points above.
And you should always go at the stronger every few points. Since both of you concentrated on hitting to his partner, he was free to poach. I always go at the netman's alley once in 5. And lob around that ratio, but lob deep and really high, not to win the point, but to get the point started.

 

[eliza]

yeah baby

I am a 4.5 male. I would kill for a chance to hit with Federer. I would be in 100% survival mode by minute 3 of warm ups & I would love every second of it.

No offence, but I saw Federer warming up at the US Open, a 4.5 would not return a ball..............................Would you love that, really?

 

[LeeD]

A weak hitting, small statured, nearly blind, 4.5 would barely touch a Federer ball during warmups, for sure.
A solid experienced 4.5, big enough to handle heavy balls, can easily rally with Federer when Fed wants to hit 30 balls in a row.
Now serious match, different story. Neither would hit more than 2 balls per point, every point going Fed's way.

 

[SuperDuy]

A weak hitting, small statured, nearly blind, 4.5 would barely touch a Federer ball during warmups, for sure.
A solid experienced 4.5, big enough to handle heavy balls, can easily rally with Federer when Fed wants to hit 30 balls in a row.
Now serious match, different story. Neither would hit more than 2 balls per point, every point going Fed's way.

Would you be able to return one of his good kick serves in a practice of his where there is no pressure?:9

 

[LeeD]

A former #1 at CalPolly, at 6'5" tall and maybe 220 lbs., could kick his twists over my head by about a foot. His first flats were easily 140 by anyone's imagination, but never went in against me. I could return his second serve every time, thos popped up and no pace, little placement.
I doubt Federer has more serve. Karlovic maybe, Isner maybe, but not Federer. Talking second serves.

 

[BreakPoint]

I think some sadistic evil person with a sick sense of humor invented mixed doubles. Just my opinion. :shock:

 

[sureshs]

A weak hitting, small statured, nearly blind, 4.5 would barely touch a Federer ball during warmups, for sure.
A solid experienced 4.5, big enough to handle heavy balls, can easily rally with Federer when Fed wants to hit 30 balls in a row.
Now serious match, different story. Neither would hit more than 2 balls per point, every point going Fed's way.

Sorry don't agree about the solid 4.5 being able to rally 30 balls with Federer. Most 4.5s are still not consistent enough and their technique is not excellent.

 

[LeeD]

Maybe where you're from.
I've seen lots of 4.5's who USED to play at 6.0 levels, or at least A/Open 5.5 levels. They just got older, but can still hit 30 shots in a row once in a while.
And yes, I've seen 4.5's who couldn't hold a candle to Fed or any other top 300's shots, but those guys PEAKED at 4.5. They never could or ever possibly dreamed of making it to 5's.
Then there's the 3.5's who practice with 5.5 men, and 7.0 women, who think they can handle, and probably COULD, for a few points at least.
Not all 4.5's are your standard crab who moves like a sloth and hit forehands at 50mph, pushing and retrieving to win a point. Some can actually serve at 125+, hit real volleys and overheads, but are on their way UP TO A HIGHER LEVEL, but got caught during ascension as a 4.5.

 

[polski]

No offence, but I saw Federer warming up at the US Open, a 4.5 would not return a ball..............................Would you love that, really?

You know some really terrible 4.5's. Yes, a hitting session with Fed...I would totally love it. Would I want to play a match against him, no - that would be pointless (for he & I both).

Cindy is talking about a 3.5w/4.0m combo trying to play a 4.5m/3.5w or a 4.0m/4.0w in 8.0 dubs. They probably won't win & shouldn't win, but they should compete and win some games. That isn't pointless, it's just a challenge - apparantly one she isn't up for (to each their own).

 

[larry10s]

uhhhh....yeah. I've hit with college kids & female professionals. I can hang at that level for 10-15 minutes. When you're talking about a top 5 player in the world...yes, I have no chance.

i thought 3 minutes was optimistic:|
after 2-3 balls i thought would be realistic:shock:

 

[polski]

i thought 3 minutes was optimistic:|
after 2-3 balls i thought would be realistic:shock:

I believe that I said 3 minutes of warm up. I assume that the first 2-3 balls Fed hits in warm up aren't inside out forehand winners. He's a pro, he doesn't warm up like a bush-leaguer.

 

[LeeD]

Polski, I agree with you on both counts.
As a strong hitting 4.5, you should be able to rally with any male player, until your form and wind gets tired, and you lose by missing.
If they choose to go for winners, 2 shots each at most against 7.0's\
As for Cindy and her being a 3.5..... yes, she wants more to win now more than to get the experience that allows her to progress, so she will stay 3.5 for another while longer.
Another thread she questioned the female ranking in mixed. That female uses 4.5 as a basis to work on her game and compete at a solid hitters level, not at all worried about losing matches now.

 

[Z-Man]

Competitive mixed doubles is totally pointless unless the women are at least the same level and preferably one level higher than the men. 4.5 men playing with 3.5 women is nothing but a contest between the 2 men to see who can be meaner to the other team's woman. Not a lot of fun in my book.

A 3.5 woman is similar in level to a 3.0 man. Put the shoe on the other foot, and it's like a couple of 6.0 men playing with 4.5 men. I am currently a 4.5, and I'd love to play with some top D1 players or low-level pros. It would be a great learning experience for me, but I would not expect "fun" tennis, and I would not beat myself up about losing. In fact, the only way a 6.0 is stepping on the court with me is if money is exchanged first.

 

[Rabbit]

Competitive mixed doubles is totally pointless unless the women are at least the same level and preferably one level higher than the men. 4.5 men playing with 3.5 women is nothing but a contest between the 2 men to see who can be meaner to the other team's woman. Not a lot of fun in my book.

A 3.5 woman is similar in level to a 3.0 man. Put the shoe on the other foot, and it's like a couple of 6.0 men playing with 4.5 men. I am currently a 4.5, and I'd love to play with some top D1 players or low-level pros. It would be a great learning experience for me, but I would not expect "fun" tennis, and I would not beat myself up about losing. In fact, the only way a 6.0 is stepping on the court with me is if money is exchanged first.

You got that right. 8.0 mixed for a 4.5 is about one of two things a) winning at the expense of the player of lesser ability on the other side of the net (not a lot of fun) or b) having fun. And it's been my experience that most women aren't playing tennis for the same reason as most guys. Sorry, but it's the truth.

I played 8.0 mixed and 8.0 mixed senior (and 9.0 mixed senior). If I tried, somebody got pissed. The worst, absolute worst, was a 4.5 woman paired with a 3.5 guy. I didn't know either of them and he served first. He thought his 1st serve was Samprasian, it should have been timed with a calendar. I swear, I hit kick serves to him, nothing hard, and he woofed most of them. He was livid by the end of the match and treated his partner like crap as well.

I've already written off senior 9.0 mixed as the women on the team were too freaking ugly (personality-wise) and too competitive. I have a real problem with paying to play tennis and not having fun. Why do it? And this is a team that's gone to sectionals like the last 4 or 5 years. I bailed on them this year for sectionals. I'd had enough.

I've been asked to play two senior 8.0 mixed teams, one in this district and one out of district. I don't know that I'll do either now. And as for regular 8.0 mixed....well we'll see.

 

[larry10s]

Polski, I agree with you on both counts.
As a strong hitting 4.5, you should be able to rally with any male player, until your form and wind gets tired, and you lose by missing.
If they choose to go for winners, 2 shots each at most against 7.0's\
As for Cindy and her being a 3.5..... yes, she wants more to win now more than to get the experience that allows her to progress, so she will stay 3.5 for another while longer.
Another thread she questioned the female ranking in mixed. That female uses 4.5 as a basis to work on her game and compete at a solid hitters level, not at all worried about losing matches now.

i guess icbw but i would think a 4.5 would have trouble with the "heaviness " of 7.0 ball so after 2-3 shots a short ball would be coughed up.
maybe in warm up and the ball hitting right to you it could be different.
i was not trying to be dissmissive to the original poster.

 

[rh310]

I believe that I said 3 minutes of warm up. I assume that the first 2-3 balls Fed hits in warm up aren't inside out forehand winners. He's a pro, he doesn't warm up like a bush-leaguer.

LMAO. Isn't this the truth? I pride myself on giving my match partners a good warmup. I wish the converse were true more often.

Worst yet are the guys who dismiss the warm up. They walk on the court and say they're ready to go, then act all put out when you insist on a warm up.

I always figure those guys just finished a nice thorough warm up with their coach and are trying to start the match off with an advantage.

 

[polski]

i guess icbw but i would think a 4.5 would have trouble with the "heaviness " of 7.0 ball so after 2-3 shots a short ball would be coughed up.
maybe in warm up and the ball hitting right to you it could be different.
i was not trying to be dissmissive to the original poster.

I don't doubt that I would miss shots and cough up a short ball in a hitting session with Fed.

And I wouldn't expect him to hit balls right at me as if I were a sedimentary object, although I am sure he would if he wanted to.

To me the beauty of hitting with a highly talented partner is that they will hit shots that are challenging to return. Getting accustomed to those shots would be an absolute joy to me.

Our club's pro is a 6.0, former DI All American, who played on the tour for a few years. Hitting with him for an hour is about the best thing ever to me.

 

[ksteph]

Cindy,

I understand were you're coming from. I was in the same boat last year and I didn't really want to play mixed anymore.

But I decided that for me to be a well rounded player, I have to take the good with the bad. I'm going to play more mixed this winter (god help me), take more clinics for doubles.

Just take it one match at a time, take a deep breath, and keep playing your best.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Cindy,

I understand were you're coming from. I was in the same boat last year and I didn't really want to play mixed anymore.

But I decided that for me to be a well rounded player, I have to take the good with the bad. I'm going to play more mixed this winter (god help me), take more clinics for doubles.

Just take it one match at a time, take a deep breath, and keep playing your best.

Do you think you're getting anything out of it, Ksteph?

Our team is nice, and I dig all of the fellas. It's kind of hard to constantly feel like you're not pulling your weight though, ya know?

I actually have an idea. You know how I try to get courts on Saturday mornings to play with the girls? I think I may start inviting our 8.0 mixed male teammates instead. You wanna give this a try with me? Maybe just having more opportunities to play with the boys would help . . . .