Giving the 3rd ball to the other netman

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by S&V-not_dead_yet, Aug 13, 2017.

?

How do you give the 3rd ball to the other netman?

  1. Hit it so they can catch it on-the-fly

    17 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. Hit it so it bounces once on your side

    13 vote(s)
    43.3%
  1. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,334
    The vast majority opt for "on-the-fly" but there are some that do the "one bounce" method.

    I'm hesitant to do "one bounce" because I could end up hitting it into the net after the bounce and then I look like an idiot.

    I have plenty of ways of looking like an idiot on the tennis court; I don't need another way.
     
    Traffic and MathGeek like this.
    #1
  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    5,642
    Location:
    SF CA
    You're right. There are other ways to look like an idiot. Add 'Hit the ball to other netman, but sent it into the other side of the court towards server' and 'Bounce it towards the other person, but you miss hit the ball and it goes back to the fence' or worse yet 'Toss the ball like a girly man and have it not even make it to the net.'

    Been there, Done that! :D
     
    #2
  3. Nashvegas

    Nashvegas Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Messages:
    368
    Whenever I feel moved to bounce I can count on 1/5 ending up in the net. Too high a percentage when I can usually put it in the guy's pocket on the fly.
     
    #3
  4. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    The first and best choice is not in the poll, it is to hit it to the server--he's the one who needs the ball. If he's a player he will want to inspect it to see what it's condition is for various serves. When a server says he holds all three, I know he's a player. If he doesn't want to store the two other balls in his pocket, because one may fall out during play, necessitating a hindrance, he will roll it back to the fence-- if it's windy, into the corner downwind. When the opponents gives me the third, I know they're rec players. Real players want all three balls when they are serving--four would be better--then the netman can hold one, if it makes him feel more secure, having big fuzzy ball in his left pocket--if he's a righty.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    #4
  5. sweetrugger

    sweetrugger New User

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    I try to bounce it on my side first, then have it bounce on the other side once. Basically, a high lob toss to bounce in the service box on my side, then a nice easy bounce on the other side.
     
    nytennisaddict and tennis tom like this.
    #5
  6. kevrol

    kevrol Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    879
    Actually read somewhere that you should try to do it so that it bounces twice when returning a ball to an opponent.
     
    tennis tom likes this.
    #6
  7. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    All bets are off on funky boggy grass--better an easy fly ball to their racket or into their hand, no bounce.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    #7
  8. Rui

    Rui Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    432
    I air mail it from close in. Far away I bounce it to them.
     
    #8
  9. darkhorse

    darkhorse Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    389
    My accuracy when giving the balls back to my opponents before a point starts is excellent, so I can do this on the fly. If only I could translate that accuracy to when the point is actually happening...
     
    #9
  10. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    Arizona
    Usually bounce it. I am an idiot often so not worried about looking the part.
     
    #10
  11. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Westchester (lower), NY
    lol, i always thought it was cool when folks 1 bounce it to the net man (ie. bounce once on my side)
    never really practiced it... but this weekend was thinking i might :p (mainly for folks lower skilled folks (ie. 3.5 mixed, or kid) that spazz when a ball is hit to them on the fly)
     
    #11
  12. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    You're right, it is pretty cool, takes a bit of practice to get it right 19 out of 20 times, if you miss, it just hits the net on your side and rests harmlessly at the net--you say your sorry and the net man can lean over and pick it up or just leave it there--much better then the clueless who smack the ball back to you when your back is turned walking back and either hit you with it or it ricochets to the various nooks and crannies of the facility.
     
    #12
  13. darkhorse

    darkhorse Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    389
    If you want to be truly cool, learn to catch the ball on your racquet when you're the receiver in this situation. And I don't mean bouncing the ball with your racquet to your hand, I mean getting the ball to stop right on the strings on the fly. I did this once when an opponent airmailed it to the baseline and it bewildered him, pretty sure I didn't lose a game after that.

    I'm working on catching the ball in my pocket next, that's a tough one to master
     
    #13
  14. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,930
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Here's another question - what do you say when you hit the ball back to the other guy in singles and his back is turned ?
     
    #14
  15. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    "Sorry" ? That's why you hit it back slowly so when he gets to the baseline it is right at his feet--or, if he has two, he can choose to let it roll to the back-stop and stay there.
     
    nytennisaddict likes this.
    #15
  16. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,930
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    I usually go with "ball coming" or just "ball"....
     
    #16
  17. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    OK Mansour Bahrami, please give a detailed explanation for the technique on how to do that--I've always wanted to do it too.
     
    #17
  18. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    5,642
    Location:
    SF CA
    I see several people do that and they make it look easy. o_O They catch the ball with the tip of the frame and let the ball roll down the middle of the strings. Anywhere else and the ball bounces, but I still can't do it consistently.
     
    tennis tom likes this.
    #18
  19. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,135
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    I just fire it at him. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.
     
    Moveforwardalways and Mongolmike like this.
    #19
  20. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    FTFY

    In all my life I've never seen anyone inspecting balls for their serves outside of pros. Even the Open category players at our club don't fuss that minutia.
     
    #20
  21. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,334
    I inspect them and I don't even have a very good serve: mostly I want the less fuzzy/more bouncy ball for my 1st serve and the more fuzzy/less bouncy one for my 2nd. Does it make any difference? Who knows? Probably not. Just like probably a lot of things I do while playing tennis that have no bearing on the outcome.
     
    Mongolmike likes this.
    #21
  22. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    Probably like fussing whether your FH is ATP or WTA style. Or whether your two racquets are precisely matched within a nanogram of swingweight. All the while failing to keep get your shoulders turned early and keep your head still through the shot.

    Tennis players can be the funniest fussers of all. I guess you don't see that in golf because everyone knows bad bounces happen so you only have so much control. Tennis players seem to feel that everything is in their control so they get picky about very minute details.
     
    #22
  23. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,334
    Which is the odd thing because I don't care what my FH is classified as so long as it's decent. And not only are my 2 racquets not evenly weighted, they aren't even the same model.

    Agreed!
     
    #23
  24. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    Do they have national rankings?
     
    #24
  25. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    For the record, I do the above. When I get new sticks, I do make sure they are from the same run.
     
    #25
  26. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    I have no idea as I'm so far below those guys, I have never checked.
     
    #26
  27. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,980
    What about the 4th ball?

    I always purchase 4 ball cans. With Fall-Spring indoor court time at $60/Hr, every little bit of time saved helps. A 4 ball can when used properly will save enough time to get a couple of extra games in.
     
    #27
  28. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    A fourth ball gives you 25% more hits, because you're spending much less time fetching and searching for balls. Just roll it to the back stop with the third ball--some people's homeostasis is wrapped so tight they can't handle having a fourth ball around--it's called neurosis.
     
    #28
  29. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    I bet if they play a real match that counts for something besides a Friday evening exo for the club swells, they inspect the balls for wear before serving--watch 'em next time they're playing for money
    It's the details that kill you.
     
    #29
  30. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    Don't misquote me doc, you didn't fix anything for me, you fixed it for yourself--watch some real players before you get fancy with your editing skills.
     
    #30
  31. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    I've watched "real players" in tournaments. Hell I even started paying attention to the balls a bit after this thread. I couldn't tell any difference in the amount of wear looking at them. Maybe if you use good balls they don't fuzz up or wear abnormally through most sets. So that's why most guys I watch playing don't do it.

    Maybe at the top levels where the differences in competition are razor thin. But in club competitions, masters tournaments and other events I've watched I've not seen it done. While this isn't the same as challengers, futures and other big money tourneys, it's competitive enough that if it was a major detail, people would do it more frequently.

    I will stand by my and Matts Wilanders position that most of what pros do in tennis is irrelevant to the adult rec player. But I am completely willing to accept that others feel differently. As long as those others do avail themselves of the concept of placebo effect and cast a more critical eye on things they hold as absolute truths.
     
    #31
  32. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    The balls wear out and wear differently, that's why in a sanctioned tournament you're given a new can of balls if you're playing a third set. This forum is titled "Adult League and and Tournament Talk", seasoned tournament players are aware of the condition of the balls and will select a different ball depending on the service they want to hit.
     
    #32
  33. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,980
    Gotta be honest... I'm not particularly superstitious but...
    • After double faulting, I look for the 3rd or 4th ball so the bad luck can wear off the 2 fault balls.
    • If I hit a ball out, I'm not serving with that ball until the bad luck wears off.
    • If possible (because this can slow down play), I will serve with Ace ball again before the good luck wears off.
    :):):):):)
     
    #33
  34. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,824
    Location:
    Ohio
    Funny stuff, but I know a few people who do the same.

    For me, when I serve, I have one in the pocket and two in my toss hand. If I hit a "let" serve with my 1st serve and that ball is returned to me, for some reason I always serve my next serve with the other ball I was holding. I'm still holding two in my toss hand, but I don't hit the same ball I just hit a "let" with. Don't know why I do that, but I am aware of it.
     
    #34
  35. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,729
    More importantly, I can't stand when the opposing team gives the 3rd ball to the server, and not the server's net man.
     
    #35
  36. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,824
    Location:
    Ohio
    I want/like all 3, so in doubles when I serve I mention that to the opponents. Some will give me all 3, some give the 3rd to my partner, who then turns and bounces the 3rd to me. I don't get worked up about it either way. And if one of the ball gets hit way off our court, I am fine with just 2. But given my preference, give me all 3.
     
    tennis tom likes this.
    #36
  37. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    You've got this backwards, read my posts in this thread, give ALL the balls to the server--he's the one who's going to need them! The balls wear differently as the match progresses, let the server decide which one he wants to serve with. One in hand, one in the left pocket and the other(s) behind him at the fence.
     
    #37
  38. darkhorse

    darkhorse Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    389
    A played a match with a guy last week who said he liked to keep the extra two in his pocket because he "didn't like it his pocket got turned inside out".

    He was a strange one, after a point he would wander towards the net because he "got bored standing at the baseline", and one time he climbed over the net to my side to get a ball for me (one was at the back fence, another at the net but not close enough to reach over the net). I had to point out the breach of etiquette on that one.
     
    #38
  39. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    If you keep two bballs in your right pocket you run the danger of one falling out necessitating a hindrance call. Best to keep the third behind you at the fence.
     
    #39
  40. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    I understood that they changed balls because the balls lose fuzz and pressure and need to be replaced. Not because they are significantly different.

    I watched some of Cincinnati this am and I didn't see the players fuss much about the balls they were serving with. Maybe once in a while a cursory glance but mostly it was take three, quickly pocket one, throw another back and serve, without even looking.

    Just like awesome OHBH's in 3.5 tennis players, the next time I see a club player inspecting balls for differences in wear and pressure, will be the first time. But now you've got me looking for it on TV, on Youtube, at the club. I'll let you know when i actually see someone doing it routinely. Then I'll let you know if they are a player or a poseur.
     
    #40
  41. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    That's what I said : "The balls wear out..."

    That's why 3.5 players are and will remain 3.5 players, barring the ravages of age, they don't care to get better and it's not caring about details like ball condition--or for that matter even knowing what number is on the ball they are playing with to be able to i.d. it when it gets mixed up with the 3.5's on the adjacent courts--how you do something is how you do everything. Players probably don't pay attention to which ball they are serving with until they are 4.5 and above, the better the player the more he will watch the ball even when it's in his hand.

    In a tournament they use two cans at a time and change them every 7 games plus the warm-up and every 9 games thereafter--see the thread I provided from the internet. So all the more reason for rec players to pay more attention to the condition of the balls since they will be using the same three balls for possibly 36 games and three tie breakers, where as in an ATP tournament they use six balls and change them every 9 games.

    ****************************************************************************************************

    Loring Chien, player for 42 years, USTA member and league player and sometime USTA league team captain.
    Answered Sep 4, 2014
    In grand slam tournaments they provide 6 new balls for the warmup and then change them for 6 more new balls after 7 games. Thereafter 6 new balls are provided every 9 games (the difference of 2 games at the beginning is to allow for the warmup hitting). So in counting games it is easy to calculate how many balls were used.

    The changing of balls is to account for the wear and tear - professionals hit much harder and with much greater spin so they wear out fairly quickly. First they fuzz up and then the fuzz wears off giving them different playing characteristics. It is customary courtesy for the player who gets new balls to announce to the opponent "new balls" so that he wont be surprised by the increased bounce and speed from unfluffed balls.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
    #41
  42. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,980
    #42
  43. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    Shocking that it took them so long to figure it out--they're both numb-nuts, with stalled careers not taking advantage of their God given full potentials. The women's balls have clearly red labels and the men's black Penn's.
     
    #43
  44. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    If that's the case, then inspecting all three balls is pointless since they will wear out relatively evenly through the match if randomly used. That's what I noticed when I paid attention to it. Balls wore out as we went along, but pretty much evenly so i couldn't detect much difference. So having all three balls is pointless to me. Not enough difference to affect play.

    The one caveat is on moist clay. I've noticed that those balls can be significantly different in the amount of moisture they carry and that can affect weight. So i'll give you that one. For sure you should pay attention to balls on wet clay. But on hard courts the balls seem to wear out pretty evenly in my experience.





    3.5 level players stay 3.5 because they have lives and jobs outside of tennis and never started playing at a young age. It has nothing to do with ball inspection. It's lack of time to dedicate to practice when they'd rather use their scant recreational time playing and competing.

    And as for the pros, I watched Nadal and Gasquet last night. Every time Gasquet was offered the third ball he just knocked it back to the ball person without even looking at it. Nadal on the other hand took all three, glanced at them and sent one back. So I thought, "a-ha here is a pro that cares about the wear on the balls". Then i watched some more and noted that when he took all three he held two in his fingers and one in his palm. He always returned the one in his palm, pocketed the ball between his thumb and first fingers and served with the ball held in his fourth and fifth fingers. Also picked his bum, tugged on his shoulder sleeves, touched his left ear, nose, right ear, nose. So in the end, I thought "obsessive compulsive" rather than "ball inspector".
     
    #44
  45. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    Guess they must be 3.5's ;)
     
    #45
  46. Nashvegas

    Nashvegas Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Messages:
    368
    Dolgopolov's potential has been reduced to some degree by his God-given Gilbert's syndrome. Cut the guy a little slack.
     
    #46
  47. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    Can you please explain what Brad Gilbert has to do with this?--Is he his coach? I think Dolgopolov's problem is that stupid plastic girl's head-band he wears--maybe it's cutting the circulation off to his brain.
     
    #47
  48. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,481
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/sports/tennis/07tennis.html

    Good article on pros inspecting balls. Seems for many it's a calming ritual since they usually can't notice much difference in the balls especially after the first couple games. That fits with what I see watching matches. Inspection is cursory at best and looks to be part of a preset ritual.
     
    #48
  49. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jun/26/thisweekssciencequestions4

    Why do tennis players check the ball before serving?

    Thursday 26 June 2003 07.21 EDTFirst published on Thursday 26 June 2003 07.21 EDT

    It all comes down to hair. The hair on a new tennis ball tends to be smoothed flat, while a ball that's been knocked around a bit will be more fluffy. Tennis players may check three balls or more before serving so that they can select one smooth ball and one fluffy ball.

    The smooth ball is used for the first serve. Because the hairs are flattened down, the ball travels faster than an older ball, which should make it harder to return. But the gain in speed comes at a cost. "The benefit is counteracted by less accuracy because you get less grip on the ball when you hit it," says Jan Magnus, of Tilburg University in the Netherlands. Should the first serve go astray, the player will use the fluffier ball for their second serve. Although these move slower, they are easier to control and so the player is less likely to concede a double fault.

    Magnus and his colleague Franc Klaassen, of Amsterdam University, have analysed 100,000 points played at Wimbledon between 1992 and 1995. Their latest study looked at how effective serves are. They found that even top professionals often have a bad serving strategy.

    "You can't make your first service too easy, because even though it'll go in every time, it'll be returned too easily. But equally, you see people using an enormous first service that almost never goes in. You have to find the optimum in the middle."

    The judgment is complicated by having two serves. Magnus found that if a player lost form and started missing a lot of first serves, they often over-compensated by making the second serve too easy to return.

    "This is the most common error," says Magnus. "They are too afraid of double faults, but double faults are not a bad thing. There's a big misunderstanding about that." Players who never concede double faults are not pushing themselves enough. "If you play to your limit, you will occasionally go over the line and get a double fault. But if you never go over it, you're too far away from it," he says.
     
    #49
  50. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,234
    1. "Condition of fabric and fiber cover around tennis ball alters gradually after each shot and a rally. Accordingly, depending upon use, wear and tear; each ball may behave differently. Condition of a ball determines the on court bounce, speed and swing through air, movement off the court, feel, spin and bounce off the racket. Hence server chooses the best ball from the available balls, according to his/her game plan.
    2. Not necessarily player will chose fast ball always. He/she may prefer to choose suitable ball to slow down the game or to swing the ball or to put heavy spin on the ball."
     
    #50

Share This Page