GOAT of Drop Shots

hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
After having seen Drovny on that list, I wonder if we could start a new threatd called : the best drop shots ever.I think this may be the only stroke not having a thread.

Here goes my initial list:

1/Drobny
2/Santana
3/Nastase
4/Orantes
5/Pietrangeli
6/Mayer
7/Panatta
8/Rosewall
9/Federer
10/Mc Enroe

I´m sure many of the 50´s and 60´s pros other than those mentioned, had a good hand for drop shots; I just cannot recall any but there should be
Click to expand...
Looks like an excellent list to me.

1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Nastase
4. Orantes
5. Pietrangeli
6. Mayer
7. Panatta
8. Rosewall
9. Federer
10. McEnroe
 
I have no idea who the GOAT of drop shots is but I think my favorite during the flow of matches is Orantes. I like Nastase and McEnroe too but I think Nastase did it too much and often because he couldn't put the shot away.

I like Laver and Rosewall also and Gene Mayer. Santana was great of course. Pancho Segura was fantastic also.

I've read Bill Tilden was a master of drop shots as was Art Larsen and Bobby Riggs.
 
Nastase used this shot way to much, torwards the end of matches, the other guy would be ready for it and know it was comming
 
It would be nice to specify wing in this category. Some are far better with the backhand drop others forehand.
 
As far as i know, Rosewall disliked dropshots. He told that Alan Trengove in his book: Art of Tennis. Laver had a fine dropshot, exhibited often against Borg. Santana could make the ball roll back over the net. Rios and Mac had fine volley drops.
 
1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Orantes
4. Pietrangeli
5. Mayer
6. Panatta
7. Laver
8. Segura
9. Rosewall
10. Federer
11. Coria
12. Riggs
13. Portas
14. McEnroe
15. Tilden
16. Rios
17. Nastase
 
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Some oldtimers marvel about the drop shot skills of Italian Beppe Merlo. Was a little guy with an extremely loose strung racket, like the net of an onion bag. And i think a double hander on both sides.
 
hoodjem said:
Looks like an excellent list to me.

1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Nastase
4. Orantes
5. Pietrangeli
6. Mayer
7. Panatta
8. Rosewall
9. Federer
10. McEnroe
Click to expand...

Thanks.Not in that order necessarily, but I cannot think of other players who succeded as much at this shot in such a constant way, or at least players who used this shot strategically, as a combined deffensive-offensive weapon.

I remember seeing for the first time G Mayer, on a very fast indoor carpet, doing that to fast guys like Noah,Borg or Lendl, and keep them pinned at the baseline.It looked like even if you knew he was going to do that to you, he disguissed it so well, that you could do nothing else than stare at it.

Rosewall did it as a kind of approach shot, he almost always came to the net after his pinpoint drop shots.
 
pc1 said:
I have no idea who the GOAT of drop shots is but I think my favorite during the flow of matches is Orantes. I like Nastase and McEnroe too but I think Nastase did it too much and often because he couldn't put the shot away.

I like Laver and Rosewall also and Gene Mayer. Santana was great of course. Pancho Segura was fantastic also.

I've read Bill Tilden was a master of drop shots as was Art Larsen and Bobby Riggs.
Click to expand...

Orantes learned that shot from Santana and, yes, was able to use it very often and very succesfully on clay.Similar to Rosewall, he´d do that as an approach shot.Or, he´d lob his opponent after that one rushed to reach the drop shot, he was one of the best lobbers that I´ve seen.In his 1975 USO F vs Connors, used that tactic very often and later on, he said it was inspired to him from Arthur Ashe, who played very similarly a few months before, during that W final that he won over Connors.
 
urban said:
As far as i know, Rosewall disliked dropshots. He told that Alan Trengove in his book: Art of Tennis. Laver had a fine dropshot, exhibited often against Borg. Santana could make the ball roll back over the net. Rios and Mac had fine volley drops.
Click to expand...

Great quote on Santana.In fact, he was a master of effect, either his looping top spin forehand, which described amazing inside-outside, right-left archs that Nastase copied ( though Santana did it quite better ) and that reversed drop shot that you mention.He was a real wizzard when he was inspired.Never watched Segura, but I am sure he was another extremely 2 sensible hands" player.
 
kiki said:
Orantes learned that shot from Santana and, yes, was able to use it very often and very succesfully on clay.Similar to Rosewall, he´d do that as an approach shot.Or, he´d lob his opponent after that one rushed to reach the drop shot, he was one of the best lobbers that I´ve seen.In his 1975 USO F vs Connors, used that tactic very often and later on, he said it was inspired to him from Arthur Ashe, who played very similarly a few months before, during that W final that he won over Connors.
Click to expand...

Ashe say he stole the little sliced backhand lob from Laver. Ashe described Laver's backhand slice lob as sort of shoveling over the opponent. It would be one inch over the opponent's reach and one inch inside the baseline.

Guys, how about we expand this topic to not just drop shots but touch shots in general, like lobs, changes of angle, spin and pace etc?

Many of these Masters of Dropshots were great in these areas also.
 
hoodjem said:
Looks like an excellent list to me.

1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Nastase
4. Orantes
5. Pietrangeli
6. Mayer
7. Panatta
8. Rosewall
9. Federer
10. McEnroe
Click to expand...

Need more clarification. Are we only consider the drop shot occurred at the net, or anywhere on the court? I think it’s better to include everywhere b/c it’s about variety.

Fed has use the drop shot in many position on the court including from the baseline. He even put a drop shot winner coming from a server.

If Fed is ranked #9 on the list, I like to see those players above him hitting drop shots from other places beside from the net.
 
TMF said:
Need more clarification. Are we only consider the drop shot occurred at the net, or anywhere on the court? I think it’s better to include everywhere b/c it’s about variety.

Fed has use the drop shot in many position on the court including from the baseline. He even put a drop shot winner coming from a server.

If Fed is ranked #9 on the list, I like to see those players above him hitting drop shots from other places beside from the net.
Click to expand...

A lot of the players on the list could hit drop shots from anywhere.
 
pc1 said:
A lot of the players on the list could hit drop shots from anywhere.
Click to expand...
Well this brings up a question. When I see the phrase "drop shot" I'm thinking groundstrokes. But are we also thinking drop volleys?

Some stab volleys drop short without it being intended, but there are surely intentional drop volleys.
 
I think of a drop shot as a groundstroke ( after the bounce) and distinguish it from the volley, which is a higher percentage play.
 
BTURNER said:
I think of a drop shot as a groundstroke ( after the bounce) and distinguish it from the volley, which is a higher percentage play.
Click to expand...
That's how I think it of it too. The drop volley is a different stroke.

And I presume groundstrokes is all we've been talking about --especially with baseliners like Orantes.

McEnroe would have to be up there among the best drop volleyers, or stop volleyers to use a more old-fashioned term. He could take a blasted groundstroke and remove all the pace, dropping it just over the net.

I also remember a few shockingly good volleys like that from BJK.
 
pc1 said:
Guys, how about we expand this topic to not just drop shots but touch shots in general, like lobs, changes of angle, spin and pace etc?
Click to expand...
Nobody thinks of Lendl as a touch player, but he had a great FH topspin lob. He put 5 over McEnroe's head at the '87 USO (just 3 sets). And of course he had that famous FH lob that kept him in the match against Cash.

Another one is a player we both like, Orantes. He put 4 FH lobs cleanly over Connors at 75 USO (also a 3 set match).

Chris Evert was a great lobber.
 
I'm glad Gene Mayer made the list. The first time I saw him play, when he had already become a top ten player, I was shocked at his ability to disguise his drop shots. The fact that he was two handed on both sides made his shots even more difficult to read. I believe that he hit drop shots fairly effectively from both wings. I recall that he'd often set up as if he was about to hit a normal backhand or forehand and then out of nowhere, here comes a drop shot with all the "air taken out of it". I haven't watched as much of Orantes (primarily from video clips years later), but from what I've seen, that guy was great with drop shots as well.

gmayer80.jpg


93967.gif


GeneMayer-AceAuthenticHeroesLegends.jpg


1963554.jpg
 
krosero said:
Nobody thinks of Lendl as a touch player, but he had a great FH topspin lob. He put 5 over McEnroe's head at the '87 USO (just 3 sets). And of course he had that famous FH lob that kept him in the match against Cash.

Another one is a player we both like, Orantes. He put 4 FH lobs cleanly over Connors at 75 USO (also a 3 set match).

Chris Evert was a great lobber.
Click to expand...

Evert's forehand dropshot was among the absolute best in the sport. Perfectly disguised, and unlike so many of those named above, She used it with such restraint, that almost never was it hit to be 'clever', out of fatigue, out of boredom or out of position. And she learned followed it up, if you managed to get there, with perfect touch on the lob-volley, a shot usually relegated to doubles play and doubles specialists.
 
BTURNER said:
I think of a drop shot as a groundstroke ( after the bounce) and distinguish it from the volley, which is a higher percentage play.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes a lot of sense.

Few clips of Fed's drop shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqDxPtbmAJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNX2OC_ttk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nYZrLraS14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJs8bSJLWE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RXe0OnkwRs

don't know if any players with a wooden stick could have done better.
 
krosero said:
Nobody thinks of Lendl as a touch player, but he had a great FH topspin lob. He put 5 over McEnroe's head at the '87 USO (just 3 sets). And of course he had that famous FH lob that kept him in the match against Cash.

Another one is a player we both like, Orantes. He put 4 FH lobs cleanly over Connors at 75 USO (also a 3 set match).

Chris Evert was a great lobber.
Click to expand...

That forehand lob against Cash was amazing. I believe I've read he hit it with the wrong grip.
 
I have the 1966 Wimbledon Final on dvd(Santana d Ralston) & I'm pretty sure Santana didn't hit one drop shot the entire match. Maybe he just used it on clay.


That forehand lob against Cash was amazing. I believe I've read he hit it with the wrong grip.
Click to expand...

I posted a thread a while back on his TC segment on 'Only at the Open.' Lendl described the wrong point when talking about that match point.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=219307

here is the clip where you can see both lobs(starting around the 10 min mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIIgn3JjZos
 
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pc1 said:
Ashe say he stole the little sliced backhand lob from Laver. Ashe described Laver's backhand slice lob as sort of shoveling over the opponent. It would be one inch over the opponent's reach and one inch inside the baseline.

Guys, how about we expand this topic to not just drop shots but touch shots in general, like lobs, changes of angle, spin and pace etc?

Many of these Masters of Dropshots were great in these areas also.
Click to expand...

yeah, see Laver vs Ashe or Newcombe at the you tube matches, he did that very efficiently.

Agreed for extending the topic to touch shots.As I said, Santana´s top spin lob and forehands described uncredible archs, it was sort of the baseball sidespin shot ? ( I am almost illiterate on baseball, but I think it is a similar spin effect).Nastase learned a lot from Santana, and imitated many of his effects; plus he had that uncredible speed and quickness that Santana didn´t have.
Orantes was a mixture of artristy and craftmanship, we can talk also about the greatest tachticians, starting by Tilden and Lacoste, and we´ll certainly find a great tactichian in Orantes ( or Ashe, Laver and Rosewall if we talk about the 1970´s).
 
TMF said:
Need more clarification. Are we only consider the drop shot occurred at the net, or anywhere on the court? I think it’s better to include everywhere b/c it’s about variety.

Fed has use the drop shot in many position on the court including from the baseline. He even put a drop shot winner coming from a server.

If Fed is ranked #9 on the list, I like to see those players above him hitting drop shots from other places beside from the net.
Click to expand...

That is the original drop shot, from the baseline.In fact, if we talked about drop shot volleys ( or stop volleys) that list would change.Panatta was excellent at that, but so were Laver,Roche,Mac Enroe and Edberg.

BTW, Lacoste was also a master of this shot, have seen a few videos and he was like a drop shot machine, if he was tunned on.
 
krosero said:
Well this brings up a question. When I see the phrase "drop shot" I'm thinking groundstrokes. But are we also thinking drop volleys?

Some stab volleys drop short without it being intended, but there are surely intentional drop volleys.
Click to expand...

Also called " stop volleys".
 
krosero said:
Nobody thinks of Lendl as a touch player, but he had a great FH topspin lob. He put 5 over McEnroe's head at the '87 USO (just 3 sets). And of course he had that famous FH lob that kept him in the match against Cash.

Another one is a player we both like, Orantes. He put 4 FH lobs cleanly over Connors at 75 USO (also a 3 set match).

Chris Evert was a great lobber.
Click to expand...

Orantes shotmaking on clay or slow har tru was second to none.One of the very few players to beat ( a young) Borg or a top form Connors or Vilas , from the baseline.Injuries wore him down, however.
 
borg number one said:
I'm glad Gene Mayer made the list. The first time I saw him play, when he had already become a top ten player, I was shocked at his ability to disguise his drop shots. The fact that he was two handed on both sides made his shots even more difficult to read. I believe that he hit drop shots fairly effectively from both wings. I recall that he'd often set up as if he was about to hit a normal backhand or forehand and then out of nowhere, here comes a drop shot with all the "air taken out of it". I haven't watched as much of Orantes (primarily from video clips years later), but from what I've seen, that guy was great with drop shots as well.

gmayer80.jpg


93967.gif


GeneMayer-AceAuthenticHeroesLegends.jpg


1963554.jpg
Click to expand...

I´ve seen Nastase,Orantes,Panatta,Santana do terrific drop shots on a natural court like clay or grass.But, mayer, he was able to do them on a very fast indoor court, which is an extremely difficult shot to play on such a surface.he desguissed it not only with his 2 H strokes, but also, he had a rare feet position, which helped him a lot to surprise opponents.As I said before, even if you kenw he was about to drop shot you, you couldn´t even react.
 
BTURNER said:
Evert's forehand dropshot was among the absolute best in the sport. Perfectly disguised, and unlike so many of those named above, She used it with such restraint, that almost never was it hit to be 'clever', out of fatigue, out of boredom or out of position. And she learned followed it up, if you managed to get there, with perfect touch on the lob-volley, a shot usually relegated to doubles play and doubles specialists.
Click to expand...

One thing that made Evert´s drop shot very special, was that underspin she put into it that slided away to the left court and opened such an angle...she was the best - men included- in that special effect.
 
1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Orantes
4. Pietrangeli
5. Mayer
6. Panatta
7. Laver
8. Segura
9. Rosewall
10. Coria
11. Riggs
12. Portas
13. McEnroe
14. Rios
15. Tilden
16. Nastase
17. Gerulaitis
18. Leconte
19. Rostagno
20. Ramesh Krishnan
21. Stich
22. Nadal
23. Federer
24. Djokovic
 
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I am a Federer fan, and not much of a Djokovic fan, but I think Djokovic has a better drop shot than Federer. Yet there have been no mentions of Djokovic in the thread.
 
Federer is pretty spectacular with that dropshot. I've seen the guy dropshot on the return. I've never seen anyone dropshot a 100mph fh, but Federer did.
 
TMF said:
Ok, that makes a lot of sense.

Few clips of Fed's drop shot.
....

don't know if any players with a wooden stick could have done better.
Click to expand...
There is another important factor aside from wooden racquets too... Before they changed sometime in the 1970s (not sure of the date?) the balls were not pressurised and made drop shots way, way more effective.
 
ClarkC said:
I am a Federer fan, and not much of a Djokovic fan, but I think Djokovic has a better drop shot than Federer. Yet there have been no mentions of Djokovic in the thread.
Click to expand...

djoker's drop shot isn't half as good as federer's. Its suicidal so many times
 
abmk said:
djoker's drop shot isn't half as good as federer's. Its suicidal so many times
Click to expand...

I think Djokovic sometimes tends to overdo the drop shot. I believe he does it more when he gets tired so he can end the point. But I do think he has one of the better drop shots today.
 
pc1 said:
I think Djokovic sometimes tends to overdo the drop shot. I believe he does it more when he gets tired so he can end the point. But I do think he has one of the better drop shots today.
Click to expand...

he overdoes more than a few times. Even nadal, who's always had a decent dropshot (under-rated/un-noticed IMO ) has better judgement of when to use it.

Plus I've rarely seen djoker use the FH drop shot . federer's is easily better. djoker's is one of the better ones today, but I don't think it should really be there in a discussion among the best of all time
 
krosero said:
Incredible to read that the Wimbledon crowd actually booed his drop shots as unsportsmanlike.
Click to expand...

I guess the British had a different sense of sportsmanship in those days.

I think Tilden believed that there was no way he would have won Wimbledon that year if he had to play through the draw like in later years.
 
abmk said:
he overdoes more than a few times. Even nadal, who's always had a decent dropshot (under-rated/un-noticed IMO ) has better judgement of when to use it.

Plus I've rarely seen djoker use the FH drop shot . federer's is easily better. djoker's is one of the better ones today, but I don't think it should really be there in a discussion among the best of all time
Click to expand...

In a way it's kind of hard to rank dropshots. There were player who used it regularly as a part of their game like Nastase, Santana, Orantes and McEnroe. Federer uses it as a compliment to his power baseline game and it works well. Some players used to really play ridiculous types of dropshots with huge backspin which is very fun to watch.
 
hoodjem said:
1. Drobny
2. Santana
3. Orantes
4. Pietrangeli
5. Mayer
6. Panatta
7. Laver
8. Segura
9. Rosewall
10. Coria
11. Riggs
12. Portas
13. McEnroe
14. Rios
15. Tilden
16. Nastase
17. Gerulaitis
18. Leconte
19. Rostagno
20. Ramesh Krishnan
21. Stich
22. Nadal
23. Federer
24. Djokovic
Click to expand...

¿Where is Chrissie´s ranked? Another great one was Navratilova´s, who had a very good " drop shot" approach, which is a description perfectly fit to her interaction with that particular shot.
 
kiki said:
¿Where is Chrissie´s ranked? Another great one was Navratilova´s, who had a very good " drop shot" approach, which is a description perfectly fit to her interaction with that particular shot.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where to put her.? How about right after McEnroe?
 
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