GOAT Pop singer?

PRINCE IS THE GOAT. Let the Gospel be spread, my people.
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Regardless how you feel about him personally, Michael Jackson was a musical genius. Prince was a VERY close second, but MJ's music appealed to the masses more.
 
Appealing to the masses doesn't make you a genius, just the darling of capitalism


Can we stop with the politics for just a second. It was a well known fact that Micheal Jackson was beloved worldwide. His music transcended all biases, prejudices, etc.
 
In terms of pure pop singer... I'm an older guy and her music isn't my style, but I can't deny that Taylor Swift has surpassed Michael Jackson at this point. In terms of a single pop singer/presence, she is simply on another level at this point. (Even though my personal taste would be Michael Jackson).

If this question were: GOAT Pop Artist/Act, my answer still wouldn't change. Undeniably The Beatles.
 
In terms of pure pop singer... I'm an older guy and her music isn't my style, but I can't deny that Taylor Swift has surpassed Michael Jackson at this point. In terms of a single pop singer/presence, she is simply on another level at this point. (Even though my personal taste would be Michael Jackson).

If this question were: GOAT Pop Artist/Act, my answer still wouldn't change. Undeniably The Beatles.
I really don't see how Taylor as a singer compares in any way to Michael and if you add his ability to sing and dance - at the speed at which he danced - simultaneously, he is on another level.
 
I really don't see how Taylor as a singer compares in any way to Michael and if you add his ability to sing and dance - at the speed at which he danced - simultaneously, he is on another level.

Being a Pop Star is purely about overall ability to do it all. The complete package and presentation. To me, that is undeniably Taylor Swift. She has completely surpassed everybody on the Pop Star level. Including Michael Jackson.

If we're going to say that the GOAT Pop Singer is whoever has the best dancing and singing act, then I'm going with Beyonce. Michael Jackson is a slightly better dancer, but Beyonce is a far better singer than Michael Jackson ever was.

If we're going with purely the best Pop Singer voice, then I'm going with either Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey.
 
Being a Pop Star is purely about overall ability to do it all. The complete package and presentation. To me, that is undeniably Taylor Swift. She has completely surpassed everybody on the Pop Star level. Including Michael Jackson.

But what is the complete package in her case? MAYBE she writes better songs (I don't see how, but I can accept that for argument's sake) but she is a pretty mediocre singer.
If we're going to say that the GOAT Pop Singer is whoever has the best dancing and singing act, then I'm going with Beyonce. Michael Jackson is a slightly better dancer, but Beyonce is a far better singer than Michael Jackson ever was.

I don't really agree that she is a far better singer than MJ was. Yes, she is good at power R&B kind of singing which has been popular since Whitney's time but MJ was great at very fast, almost breathless enunciation...in tune. He had a certain grating quality in his singing which I didn't always like but then I don't find that Beyonce brings much to the table that Whitney and Mariah hadn't already. She just happens to be younger than Mariah, so she is the Mariah for a new generation.
If we're going with purely the best Pop Singer voice, then I'm going with either Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey.

Yes, this I agree with.
 
Being a Pop Star is purely about overall ability to do it all. The complete package and presentation. To me, that is undeniably Taylor Swift. She has completely surpassed everybody on the Pop Star level. Including Michael Jackson.

If we're going to say that the GOAT Pop Singer is whoever has the best dancing and singing act, then I'm going with Beyonce. Michael Jackson is a slightly better dancer, but Beyonce is a far better singer than Michael Jackson ever was.

If we're going with purely the best Pop Singer voice, then I'm going with either Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey.
How about Elvis?

While the King was looking down
Taylor Swift stole his thorny crown
 
But what is the complete package in her case? MAYBE she writes better songs (I don't see how, but I can accept that for argument's sake) but she is a pretty mediocre singer.

Her songs are better. She is a real actual musician who plays instruments as well as a singer. She's won more awards. She's got a larger audience. She fills more arenas. She's got a wider audience. She's got more collaborations. She has a more commanding fashion trend (I know people hate this aspect of Pop (so do I) but it is real), She's more versatile (having crossed Rock, Country, R&B, Hip Hop). She's more of a trend-setter

I think anybody who thinks Jackson is a bigger Pop Star than Swift is simply just being a run-of-the-mill fan. I'm just keeping it 100 and saying it the way it is. I will listen to Jackson anytime before I listen to Swift. However, I have to keep it 100 and recognize all of her capabilities, numbers, attributes and accomplishments, There never has been a Pop powerhouse like that woman - Swift.

I don't really agree that she is a far better singer than MJ was. Yes, she is good at power R&B kind of singing which has been popular since Whitney's time but MJ was great at very fast, almost breathless enunciation...in tune. He had a certain grating quality in his singing which I didn't always like but then I don't find that Beyonce brings much to the table that Whitney and Mariah hadn't already. She just happens to be younger than Mariah, so she is the Mariah for a new generation.

Beyonce is better than Jackson at everything vocal. Everything. Including the breathless stuff. She has absolutely done it all including a lot of stuff that Jackson couldn't do. I'm not going to get into the goalpost-moving tangent of sliding Beyonce into Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston. I already said Houston and Carey where the best singers in Pop ever -- hands down.
 
Her songs are better. She is a real actual musician who plays instruments as well as a singer. She's won more awards. She's got a larger audience. She fills more arenas. She's got a wider audience. She's got more collaborations. She has a more commanding fashion trend (I know people hate this aspect of Pop (so do I) but it is real), She's more versatile (having crossed Rock, Country, R&B, Hip Hop). She's more of a trend-setter

I think anybody who thinks Jackson is a bigger Pop Star than Swift is simply just being a run-of-the-mill fan. I'm just keeping it 100 and saying it the way it is. I will listen to Jackson anytime before I listen to Swift. However, I have to keep it 100 and recognize all of her capabilities, numbers, attributes and accomplishments, There never has been a Pop powerhouse like that woman - Swift.

Ehhhhh, Jackson was way, way ahead on album sales. There's nothing else, barring the Beatles, that even compares to his commercial success. Now I don't usually get into these pseudo-objective parameters but doing so since you started it. And his worldwide impact is incomparable. Swift may be huge in the USA but USA is not the whole wide world. And you specifically claimed she has a wider audience. No she doesn't. Bieber might well have a wider audience than her, not that he deserves it but that's the very kind of thing that appeals to teenyboppers. Jackson pretty much created the teenybopper market but he was working with Quincy and stellar musicians (including Eddie VH himself) so it was difficult for adults to knock his albums as mediocre products. I grant readily that his music is not exactly wholesome (which is why he doesn't rank high in my PREFERENCES) but then, Taylor's isn't wholesome either. I don't know that anybody makes wholesome pop albums anymore; maybe Lianne La Havas might but she didn't chart well in the US for some reason.

Lastly, yes, you can peg him down for not playing instruments if you like but at least he didn't need studio aids and used to do multiple takes diligently until he had a perfect single take down. Which is what musicians in the pre-autotune era did.
Including the breathless stuff.

Then please post the songs as I am not going to believe it without hearing it. Especially when you make sweeping claims like "better at everything". It is generally hard for one singer to be better than another at everything.
 
Then please post the songs as I am not going to believe it without hearing it. Especially when you make sweeping claims like "better at everything". It is generally hard for one singer to be better than another at everything.

I'm not posting songs merely so you can just say, "No, that isn't better." Waste of time for you and me both. However, to your point, it actually isn't generally hard for one singer to be better at everything than another. If they are better, they are better. Especially with something as specific as the vocal instrument. Beyonce has better control, wider range, bigger lungs, and more power than Michael Jackson ever had -- full stop. We can just agree to disagree. If you think Michael Jackson is a better vocalist than Beyonce... well... not sure what I can tell you.

All I can say is that what made Michael Jackson one of the greatest pop stars ever wasn't his vocals.
 

After some consideration I think Frank Sinatra was a GOAT too. He started in the big band era of the late 1930s to1940s, solo singer in 1950s - to the end of his life. He had many hits and fans. He was a multi star too. A lister in movies, music performer, TV and member of the Rat Pack! One of the first superstar that really made Las Vegas shine and brought them to visit Las Vegas. The Frank Sinatra Show in the early 1960s. Academy Award winner too!
 
I'm not posting songs merely so you can just say, "No, that isn't better." Waste of time for you and me both. However, to your point, it actually isn't generally hard for one singer to be better at everything than another. If they are better, they are better. Especially with something as specific as the vocal instrument. Beyonce has better control, wider range, bigger lungs, and more power than Michael Jackson ever had -- full stop. We can just agree to disagree. If you think Michael Jackson is a better vocalist than Beyonce... well... not sure what I can tell you.


No, it is hard because every singer has a different comfort zone in terms of both range and attack and, well, at least singers who have a style of their own rather than being Cowell pop products can be hard to beat in their own forte. So for example, a David Gilmour can sound great in dulcet settings like High Hopes but he can't sing Back In Black and vice versa would not be possible either.

Unless both singers sing in the exact same style of music and approach it the exact same way and THEN one happens to be technically much better than the other, it does not happen that one singer beats another in every department. Nope. Of course that doesn't stop stans from believing otherwise.

Now just to address one point, no, Beyonce does NOT have a wider range than Michael Jackson. It just sounds like it because she belts a lot in the upper fourth/lower fifth octave which is the same old trick they have been employing going back to Whitney. Just emphasise the strongest part of a singer's range so much that people go Geeee did you ever hear somebody sing like that. Jackson could go as low as an F2 (lowest for Beyonce being a B2). Jackson's highest head/mix note gets up to an F5 while for Beyonce it's a G5. Seriously, the only thing Jackson doesn't do is sing long belted notes because it doesn't fit in dance music. But that doesn't mean he's not hitting ridiculously high notes for a tenor.

All I can say is that what made Michael Jackson one of the greatest pop stars ever wasn't his vocals.
You mean not JUST his vocals. If he wasn't as good of a singer as he was, just his dancing alone would have relegated him to a novelty. In the same way, it is not JUST the vocals that make Beyonce a pop star. Her image, her charisma definitely have a role in it. If it was ONLY about singing, she wouldn't be able to hold a candle to a Linda Eder. But it's not, pop music has never been just about the music or at least not in a long, long time.
 
Being a Pop Star is purely about overall ability to do it all. The complete package and presentation. To me, that is undeniably Taylor Swift. She has completely surpassed everybody on the Pop Star level. Including Michael Jackson.

If we're going to say that the GOAT Pop Singer is whoever has the best dancing and singing act, then I'm going with Beyonce. Michael Jackson is a slightly better dancer, but Beyonce is a far better singer than Michael Jackson ever was.

If we're going with purely the best Pop Singer voice, then I'm going with either Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey.

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