moon shot
Hall of Fame
Looks to be a actual blade last I checked. K if I remember correctly.
Goffin racket
- Thread starter RoarTT
- Start date
Looks to be a actual blade last I checked. K if I remember correctly.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Why are folks so obessed with heavy pro stock frames when Goffin proves you can be normal built and use an of the shelf, normal racquet and be top 10 ranked?
Dont forget that even Nadal uses an old apd of 300gr with only 19gr extra weight.
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
LOL its not even close to 67 flex rating of the retail stick, its more like 56-60
Latest Atp pic shows the spaghetti flex his pro stock stick produce
I had 6 of the 2004 APD frames over the years, not one flexed like this
or where able to hit so much away from the sweet spot like this.
Yet my chinese copies of APD actually did make up for lack of accuracy.
RoarTT
Professional
It’s 65 flexLOL its not even close to 67 flex rating of the retail stick, its more like 56-60
Latest Atp pic shows the spaghetti flex his pro stock stick produce
I had 6 of the 2004 APD frames over the years, not one flexed like this
or where able to hit so much away from the sweet spot like this.
Yet my chinese copies of APD actually did make up for lack of accuracy.
reported here:https://www.prostocktennis.com/products/Rafael-Nadal-personal-babolat-pure-aero
And here:
https://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs/200703nadal_babolat
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
It’s 65 flex
https://www.prostocktennis.com/products/Rafael-Nadal-personal-babolat-pure-aero
And here:
https://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs/200703nadal_babolat
retail 2004 is 67
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
How do you know his Blade isn't custom from Wilson with higher Swing weight. Tour guys usually get heavier spec Blades from Wilson, not off of the shelf that Amateurs are using. problem with these Low SW off the shelf frames is that it gets pushed around way too much against 3000-4000 RPM topspin shots and control is compromised way too much
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
for who ever wants something as close as possible to a pro stock PD
just add weight to the handle, it should be a good compromise for
those looking for a softer PD with the rating of the 2004 APD.
You will need though at least 50 gsm on the handle and 20gsm
on the head to get close to 340gsm.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_Drive_Lite/descpageRCBAB-BDLWB.html
just add weight to the handle, it should be a good compromise for
those looking for a softer PD with the rating of the 2004 APD.
You will need though at least 50 gsm on the handle and 20gsm
on the head to get close to 340gsm.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_Drive_Lite/descpageRCBAB-BDLWB.html
moon shot
Hall of Fame
I for one don’t have the speed or agility to play their either of their styles of play. Nadal’s racquet is more like 335g string and leaded, Goffin might be modified or from wilson at a higher stock weight.
Nothing against lighter racquets other than they are consistently replacing heavier ones at retail. Same gripe against open patterns.
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Frans Bleker
Professional
For the same reason the other 9 top 10 players don't just use an "of the shelf" racket...
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Nadal and Goffin are 2 outof 10 player's. Besidesthere others like Manarinno who asked the public to donate him some racquets. Remember that Connors did the same in his haydays, asking his fans to donate the Wilson t2000!
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
it could be me but I don't see any racquet deformation. Closest to the troat give you more energy return. See the results of TWU.LOL its not even close to 67 flex rating of the retail stick, its more like 56-60
Latest Atp pic shows the spaghetti flex his pro stock stick produce
I had 6 of the 2004 APD frames over the years, not one flexed like this
or where able to hit so much away from the sweet spot like this.
Yet my chinese copies of APD actually did make up for lack of accuracy.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
It does appear to be deforming to me. Mass of tip is still going forward due to inertia as ball is pushing on throat.
This amount of deformation can probably occur even if RA reading is 67.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Or rolling shutter effect. Seeing isn't always what you get.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
If anyone has the chance, there have been some slo mos at the BNP Paribas Open
they displayed the same deformation on the HD slo mos of Nadal's Forehand stroke
its is quite remarkable the amount of dwell time he gets with his racquet, quite mesmerizing.
they displayed the same deformation on the HD slo mos of Nadal's Forehand stroke
its is quite remarkable the amount of dwell time he gets with his racquet, quite mesmerizing.
Frans Bleker
Professional
Why Nadal? His racket is what? 319? 19 grams added. Can you even comprehend how much that is? His SW is def. over 350 and you will not find that on stock rackets. Mannarino might also leads his racket up. Almost all pro players change the spec of their stock rackets, and there is a very good reason for that.
cesar faria
New User
it´s definitely almost impossible to play top level with a stock form racquet, unless we are speaking of wawrinkas frame or RF97, aswing weight lower then 340 just can´t stand against heavy shots, we must consider that some times they can delivery speed to the ball and act in balistic concepts, but a lot of shots they are forced to just block the energy back, with a light swing weight the effort on the body would be tremendous, not healthy at all, so the answer is no, almost none of the players use their sticks in stock form, the same goes for women, look Halep´s frame, its plumbed at 9 and 3 o´clock, inside the handle we just can´t know for sure, but the way she´s swinging for spin I´m almost sure she also have weight on the handle.
Polarized frames increase frame(throat\neck) deflection, that´s what almost all of the racquet tunners recommend to their customers, this way we get more pocketing due to the increased dwel time.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
A stock frame with lead is still a stock frame. Anyone can add lead. I have done it too. The extra weight of nadals apd is including his overgrip. So his racket isn't very headheavy. Besides this fact he used an even lighter frame to win Rolandgarros and more tournaments in the beginning of his career.
Frans Bleker
Professional
You are kind off going against your own logic, but ok.
You ask yourself why people are obsessed with ''Pro Stock'' rackets, you argue it's basically BS because Goffin can be a top 10 player with a "normal built of the shelf" racket and that Nadal is also just using an old APD with 19 grams of extra weight.
So to clear up your confusion; when pro players started playing with a certain racket, racket companies will still have those rackets or molds in their archive and keep supplying them to those pro players over the years and those rackets are called: "Pro Stock rackets". So when Gilles Simon started his career with a Head Pro Tour 630, Head will keep giving him that racket or the mold of that racket adjusted to his preferred specs, and that racket is then called a PT57. So at that point a stock frame with lead is called a pro stock. The same yields for Nadal and Goffin. The difference with Goffin is however that he just doesn't use extra weight on his racket.
And about Nadals racket; ±355 swingweight on a 314 or 319 frame is extremely head heavy when compared to a any stock racket.
tennisaskashad
New User
If he's using a stock kblade, i dont doubt it. The old blades were amazing rackets, I especially love the k blade and the 2013 blade, and the 2015 16x19 blade is pretty damn good with lux alu power in it. The 2015 wilson blade 18x20 and the new blades are trash and I don't think a pro player could ever play with them.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
So it's a matter of definition. To me pro stock, are special frames made available only to pros. Pro stocks are not old consumer frames. I recently bought an old original apd.. I dont consider this as a pro stock, even if i added 19 gr. The same with Goffins racket. I can actually buy those secondshandfor a reasonable price. However pt57, h22 and the like were to my knowledge never avaible to the public.
moon shot
Hall of Fame
I think the difference is the paint. Once production for the public has stopped and then wilson makes more with paint of a newer model that has different specs - what do you consider that?
I don’t think of prostock as a lofty unicorn, it is just a stock or supply of goods that are only available to professionals.
Borna Coric apparently plays with a prostock base grip, wilson sells nothing like it currently.
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ron schaap
Hall of Fame
well pros endorsing frame x, but playing frame y, i call cheaters. I oppose the logic that normal frames we could buy in the shop 9 years ago, suddenly becomes pro stock because some pro rather plays with it instead with the newer updated model.
Frans Bleker
Professional
And I oppose the logic that most chairs have 4 legs..
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
probably because you are one of those sellers which sells normal outdated frames as
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
j
as expensive and exclusive pro stock?
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
I wonder why this Babo is NLA umm to close to pure drive pro strock spec?
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Red Hood
Rookie
I don’t know why it’s hard for people to wrap their head about pros using a low or stock retail specs because I have Taylor fritz frames. It is a pretty light racquet compare to most pros used back in the days. Silicone injected in the handle (no lead in hoop). It’s pretty much an IG radical mp but slightly more headlight.
Also, why would you need a pro stock version babolat? Babolat are light weight and high sw as is. You would need to get your head check for spending $300-400 on a pro stock babolat.
Based on my experience, pro stocks aren’t magical wand. Use that $300-400 on lessons and private coaching. Technique is key.
Also, why would you need a pro stock version babolat? Babolat are light weight and high sw as is. You would need to get your head check for spending $300-400 on a pro stock babolat.
Based on my experience, pro stocks aren’t magical wand. Use that $300-400 on lessons and private coaching. Technique is key.
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TennisHound
Legend
Pro Stocks are usually head heavier and are hard to play with (for me). They’re made for younger stronger players who can murder the ball. It is surprising that Goffin and Fritz get so much pace with their skinny build and lighter frames.
Thx! 300g unstrung, with leather grip? Overgrip? That would really make for a superlight stick. How does it play? Didnt realise he played such a big grip!
racquetreligion
Hall of Fame
yes try and get the retail made in Austria Head all the Pros use in the top 100
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
is rafa now playing with pure aero 2019 ?
Semper
New User
Yes! Go buy it!
No Nostradamus,
He is only endorsing the pure aero 2019 paint. Under the paint he still uses the 2004 Babolat AeroPro Drive Original.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
..
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Lol. Considering he is a 'talk tennis guru' that scary.Nostradamus is like that guy that knows only one (or very few) joke/s, and tells that to everyone he meets, regardless if he told it to them already 30 times. It is not even funny to think about him as deranged. His is borderline mental illness.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
Finally someone who dont trust the hype and the fake news on this forum
Also this thread is about Goffins racquet, which some find it hard to believe its basically an old Wilson blade in stock form. Lol
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
But he went to StaMfordNostradamus is like that guy that knows only one (or very few) joke/s, and tells that to everyone he meets, regardless if he told it to them already 30 times. It is not even funny to think about him as deranged. His is borderline mental illness.
Moonballballer
Semi-Pro
It seems like Goffin has recently switched string pattern? 16x19
Yes for his elbow problems. He said that in an interview during his training camp at Tenerife with team Thiem. He also talked about trying different weight setups.
Red Hood
Rookie
I see. Well I hope all goes well for him because he seem to have a bad start for 2019.
RoarTT
Professional
Yeah, something tells be he will be back With 18x20 shortly.
RanchDressing
Hall of Fame
Finally someone who dont trust the hype and the fake news on this forum
Also this thread is about Goffins racquet, which some find it hard to believe its basically an old Wilson blade in stock form. Lol
Only one "fake news" would probably be you and nostra.
Guys, it's not that complicated.
I teach tennis at an academy and have been weighting and matching racquets for the players with the usage of an RDC. The difference a properly weighted racquet makes for a top junior player is immediate and pretty amazing. Depth, directional control, and ability to play offense are impacted right away.
It comes down to this:
Elite pros must customize their racquets to compete at the highest level. There are pros that don't know any better playing around the 1000s (former college players, Operation Liftoff Alex Donski). They are LIMITED by the racquet they use. I've played tennis long enough to see the difference--former division 1 player. Swingweight is the most important factor, and it must must must be at least 335+. Stock racquets are 320s.
The pros do this by getting an MRT, an outside company like Ring Roll or P1, or a representative from their racquet company (i.e. Wilson Pro Room), to add weight under the bumper and in the handle.
It doesn't matter how incredibly fit, or strong, or how good your hand eye coordination is. Stock racquets cap off your level of play at a certain level--for many academy players, that means a big college. The insane talents can make it to around the 1000s with stock racquets. It's simply too difficult to play higher than that level with a stock racquet.
Stock racquets are made with the average consumer in mind and perform as such.
I teach tennis at an academy and have been weighting and matching racquets for the players with the usage of an RDC. The difference a properly weighted racquet makes for a top junior player is immediate and pretty amazing. Depth, directional control, and ability to play offense are impacted right away.
It comes down to this:
Elite pros must customize their racquets to compete at the highest level. There are pros that don't know any better playing around the 1000s (former college players, Operation Liftoff Alex Donski). They are LIMITED by the racquet they use. I've played tennis long enough to see the difference--former division 1 player. Swingweight is the most important factor, and it must must must be at least 335+. Stock racquets are 320s.
The pros do this by getting an MRT, an outside company like Ring Roll or P1, or a representative from their racquet company (i.e. Wilson Pro Room), to add weight under the bumper and in the handle.
It doesn't matter how incredibly fit, or strong, or how good your hand eye coordination is. Stock racquets cap off your level of play at a certain level--for many academy players, that means a big college. The insane talents can make it to around the 1000s with stock racquets. It's simply too difficult to play higher than that level with a stock racquet.
Stock racquets are made with the average consumer in mind and perform as such.
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RanchDressing
Hall of Fame
I agree with everything, except my experience in the retail world leads me to believe it's a bit more nefarious than simply being light for rec players to have easy to use frames. I think they undermine the weight discussion so that they can help "technologies" appear to be worth buying, and actually responsible for performance. Most technologies also coincide with specific weight changes (changing of sweet spot location, changing of twist weight or swing weight, changing of static weight), and the weight changes coincide with most of the marketing claims attached to the "technologies" being sold.
I can come up with several examples of that. And I can find several examples of higher swing weight frames that players don't find difficult to use in the slightest but enjoy quite a lot. I think companies don't want people to understand the effect swing weight really has as it can really hurt the marketability of their products.
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