"Going to Nationals!" Waste of time, and antithetical to your development!

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by TimeToPlaySets, Jun 14, 2018 at 2:50 PM.

  1. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    To me, Nationals is the silliest thing ever.

    If you go to Nationals, all that means is that you wasted an entire year playing below you.
    You could have spent that time playing people at (or above) your level, and revealing flaws.
    And then addressing them by drilling.

    Playing people worse than you just makes you a dinky pusher.
    On the other hand, getting your weak serve or BH brutally punished is a motivator to improve and get some real strokes.
    Not getting false accolades.

    Went 18-0? Going to Nationals?
    Congrats, you're a sandbagger with snowflake self-esteem!

    Play a real match sometime at +.5 or +1.0
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 3:23 PM
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  2. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    You need to spend some time talking to (or playing with) a former D1 college player or above. It will give you some perspective. And what I'm getting at is this. These guys are good enough to beat all but a thousand or so players in the world. Unfortunately, that's simply not good enough to be "good" at this (or any other) sport. And these guys know that better than anyone. They know in the grand scheme of things, they "suck". You (or I or anyone else on these boards) will never even come close to being at their level. So just relax. Have fun. Stop taking rec league tennis so seriously. It's not healthy. You're like these guys I see on the golf course that practice all the time can shoot single digit handicap and actually think that they're good. They're not.

    Not that there's anything wrong with practicing to get better. There isn't. But please, keep some perspective. No matter how good you get at tennis (or golf or pretty much anything else), you suck. It's all just for fun. So relax and don't drive everyone around you crazy.

    Being part of a Nationals USTA tennis team is just a fun (and social) thing to do. Try it some time. Maybe it will make you less crazy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 3:29 PM
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  3. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    I have to kind of agree. I don't really see how the best 4.0s in the nation are not just 4.5s. Maybe if everyone was incredibly honorable and never tried to play down, but I know there are a lot of people who throw games just so they can stay at their level.

    On the other hand, I do think it's good that there's something "big" for players who are good but not great to shoot for. It's nice to have something like the equivalent of a state tournament for adults. Maybe a better system would be something like having people qualify for the state games in their area and having a restriction that no one may enter who played at the collegiate level or something similar.

    That would ensure the draw wasn't full of elite players, but it would be more open and have less room for sandbagging.
     
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  4. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    I am all in favor of a tournament.
    But, joining a league where you are better than everyone is a total waste of time.

    Now, I am off to go box against some 7 year olds. My record is 18-0.
    I am going to National Boxing Champions to take on the most ferocious 7 year olds in the nation!
     
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  5. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    I've only played the 40+, 4.5 leagues but they always come down to 3-2 results and usually a few 10 point tiebreaks to resolve the winner. Nationals and hanging out with the team for a few days was the best tennis experience of my life. I don't remember all the match results but the rest of it was a blast.
     
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  6. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    3-2 results sounds like you're in the right level.
    I am talking about people who win their matches 6-0 6-1
    and go 18-0 for the season, and then are excited to go to Nationals!
    There, they finally play their first real match of the wasted season,
    against another sandbagger who is playing down.

    What a total waste.
     
    #6
  7. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Meh.

    Go to nationals, or don’t. Totally up to you.

    So long as players don’t cheat (duplicate account) or throw games to manipulate results, I’m fine with it.

    If you’re playing tennis, you’re not wasting time.
     
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  8. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    WWAAHHHH I lose a lot so I'm obviously better than someone who wins a lot.

    I'll never go to nationals …. so I'll tell everyone that does that they're stupid sandbaggers!

    If all TTPS's posts are trolling he's pure genius, but I don't think that's the case.
     
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  9. Saul Goode

    Saul Goode Rookie

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    It would be helpful to actually experience it before you comment on it. Otherwise, you come across as that guy yelling in the subway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018 at 5:24 AM
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  10. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    I never claimed to be ATP or D1.
    However, I am leagues above the 98% of untrained 2.0 dinkers you see on public courts
    But that is hardly the point
    Working hard and Improving at something is my fun

    You know what is not fun?
    Half-assing my way thru all facets of life.
    And making excuses for mediocrity
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018 at 6:00 AM
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  11. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I'm 47 with arthritic knees and failing eyesight. I'm not getting better any time soon, so I should probably just win something while I still can.
     
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  12. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    You should join an arm wrestling league for toddlers. You will go to Nationals!
     
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  13. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I want to play tennis, not arm wrestle. A couple more losses and I'll be 3.5 next year, though.
     
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  14. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo Talk Tennis Guru

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    We all have a Dream,
     
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  15. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Hall of Fame

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    So @TimeToPlaySets how exactly is "going to nationals" going to hurt a player's overall tennis development?

    Point of fact: 90% of league players are playing at level, not playing down or sandbagging.

    First in playing matches during regular season, they need to learn how to win week after week. Often with rotating partners, often playing both dubs and singles, sometimes with no notice, in shifting conditions (weather, facility, time of day).

    Then in advancing past districts and sectionals and on to Nationals, player now has to dig deep and be able to play at their best level day after day for several matches. Perhaps even multiple matches a day. Most likely now sleeping in a hotel with altered eating patterns.

    Just the very exercise of getting to nationals is going to make a player better, particularly mentally.
     
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  16. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    Is not going to Nationals.
    It's what got you there.
    Playing the entire season below your level
    Wasting time playing bad opponents
    At 3.0 and 3.5., this means bunting to win
     
    #16
  17. vex

    vex Professional

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    Spoken like a guy who’s never played a set of 3.5 singles in his life.

    This whole thread is hilariously ironic considering TTPS has never won a single set at ANY rating. He trains endlessly, beats up on Past thier prime club doubles players in singles matches and claims ratings he’d never attain if he actually had the guts to play USTA

    I’ve seen your vids. I’ve seen and played 3.5 first court singles in USTA. You would not beat a 3.5. And they would not be bunting at you. They’d hit with pace and accuracy to the corners and run you ragged until they put an easy ball away or, more likely, you got frustrated and nuked one out/into the net
     
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  18. travlerajm

    travlerajm Legend

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    Whether or not you agree with the OP, how can you not love this guy’s passion for the sport?
     
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  19. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    You are one of the people in USTA that really get it. you area a Smart man. If you really want that plate that USTA gives out for chamipionships,, you can always just have one made for yourself or steal it from USTA
     
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  20. vex

    vex Professional

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    What’s not to like about a guy who talks more trash than anyone on the site about players that are better than him but simultaneously refuses to play competitively, amirite?
     
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  21. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    You can't disagree.
    It's not allowed among rational thinkers

    If your record is 18-0
    you aren't playing the right caliber of competition
    You are wasting time sandbagging

    Unless people with 8-8 records are also selected
    Nationals = Sandbagging
     
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  22. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Hall of Fame

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    It's not about the trophy
    It's about playing legitimate opponents
    By definition, if you go to Nationals,
    You are playing below your level

    The longer you play below your level
    The harder it will be to break your bad habits that will be punished by a +.5 or +1
     
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  23. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    So What is the psychology of these Captains that will do anything and Cheat in anyway to get to the Nationals and win it ???????? What is going on inside their head ????????
     
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  24. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    It's different playing a match that means something to 17 other people. It's different getting on a plane to play tennis. It's really something stepping up to the line at match point with the opportunity to send your team on a trip.

    J
     
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  25. vex

    vex Professional

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    Stop lying. It’s absolutly no different from playing a 4.0 55 year old doubles player in a friendly singles match at the local club. Same deal man
     
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  26. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    Assuming what he's written is true, he's played against 3.5s and 4.0s and done well. The fact that none of them were official USTA matches disqualifies his experience/skill in your eyes; it doesn't in mine.

    It is a bit frustrating since I think he'd end up at 4.0. But, to each his own. IMO, he's trained harder and improved more than anyone else on this list who has chronicled their results. It would be nice if he could express himself more neutrally; he'd certainly have more fans but something tells me he doesn't care that much about such things.

    I saw a vid of him playing against @nytennisaddict, who is a stronger 4.5, and TTPS didn't look like 3.5 to me. Since NYTA is the only one on the forum who has played TTPS, his opinion likely outweighs everyone else's combined.
     
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  27. vex

    vex Professional

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    So you’re in agreement that 3.5s playing “bunting” Tennis? You think he knows what he’s talking about there? That alone tells me his opponent “ratings” are wildly inflated. I played 3.5 singles last week against a 35 y/o who played 2nd singles for a HS team that went to state, and populous state at that. Every shot was within a foot/foot and a half of the lines with spin and decent pace. My shots equally kept him running. This player would destroy the player I saw in TTPS’s vid. He’s just over .500 on the season playing 3.5. The 4.0 guys hit with even more pace and spin and accuracy. Either level of play varies wildly by region or TTPS is full of it.
     
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  28. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    No, I'm not in agreement. Nor did I write that I was on that particular point.

    You put ratings in quotes to indicate you don't believe them. I only have TTPS' word that he asked the NTRP of his opponents and got an answer.


    To each his own. I don't see 3.5s hitting every shot within 18" of the lines. I don't even see 5.0s doing that although they tend to hit with so much TS that it doesn't need to be that deep to be effective.

    It's a moot point: if TTPS never plays a rated match, the issue will never be definitively settled. I'm OK with that.

    BTW: Did you see TTPS hitting with NYTA? If you accept that NYTA is a strong 4.5, what would you estimate TTPS to be?
     
    #28
  29. samarai

    samarai Semi-Pro

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    People play tennis for different reasons, who am i to judge those who likes the competition and finds a big reward by being able to go to nationals. ive gone to state a couple of times while playing league plny and found the experience to be alot of fun. I dont play leagues anymore just because i dont have the time for that kind of commitment. Why do u play tennis?
     
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  30. CT-Topspin

    CT-Topspin New User

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    I'm pretty new to league play (in my 2nd season) so take it with a grain of salt but I have to say that at the top of our league (3.0) the players hit uncharacteristically well. I'm typically in one of the singles slots so my experience may be skewed and I might be playing the upper curve of 3.0 or the occasional 3.5 playing down but it seems that I play a higher caliber in league play than say a tournament.

    At the 3.0 level I am undefeated in tournaments and .500 at the 3.5 level. I've had a teaching pro tell me the likelihood of players playing down in league play was higher because of the prospect of nationals and that it might promote sandbagging. Granted, my experiences are anecdotal and relegated to New England tournaments and one 3.0 league but I definitely get the feeling that TTPS might not be entirely wrong in his assessment.

    I guess that's just the nature of it, though. Given how NTRP ratings are constructed, a nationals tournament would naturally encourage players to ride that line but then what's the alternative?
     
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  31. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    You could go on the internet and say usta leagues are stupid and that you are a 4.0.

    J
     
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  32. CT-Topspin

    CT-Topspin New User

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    It becomes less stupid when you stop playing the numbers and just play tennis.
     
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  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    That's the ideal scenario.

    J
     
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  34. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    hehe, in my mind there are 2 types of 3.5's...
    * rising 4.0's making a pit stop at 3.5, but don't yet have to footwork to support the strokes they have (IMO this is where ttps is)
    * career 3.5's, who can't make it past 3.5 because of their poor technique (ie. the one or both bunty strokes, eastern grip fh, etc..)... IMO this is where the player in ttps' vid, is.
    in this case, this is why i think 3.5 bunty stroke pushers are the gatekeepers of 4.0, because they challenge the "modern atp" strokes guy's footwork. it's way easier to hit against a moderate pace topspinner... or any consistent baseliner who more or less gives you the same ball... than it is to hit against a 3.5 who's strokes are so erratic, he doesn't know where the ball is gonna go next (ok, he does, but it's certainly not a shot you can "read", because the technique is so bad)

    3.5's do not hit "every shot was within a foot/foot and a half of the lines"... that is exaggeration (unless maybe your typical rally is 1 shot)
    even the 5.5's (UTR13) i hit with occasionally can't hit within "foot/foot and a half of the lines" consistently. more times than me, with pace and spin, but not "every shot"

    then there's the question of "how did that person get <fill in NTRP>"... from singles or doubles? plenty of 4.5s that are amazing dubs players, better than me, but i'd crush them in singles (for no other reason than i'd out hustle them, and make every point last 6-10 shots)

    lastly, there is a huge range with each NTRP...
    therefore you can't compare someone play 3.5 singles with someone play 4.0 singles (in usta)...
    someone who can win at the 3.5 or against low 4.0s... can't suddenly start competing against guys who typically play #1s or #2s on their 4.0 team

    presuming we're only talking about singles... ttps can definitely hang with 4.0's... maybe he can't win a match playing #1s for a 4.0 team (who will typically play the top 10% of that league), but he'll hang in there. his lefty slice serve and fh becoming weapons... particularly his serve,... good enough, that i'll ring him up to practice serve/returns (i need return practice against lefty serves).

    by all records, i'm exactly a mid packer 4.5, so don't you go around accusing me of being "strong" :p
    ~4.27 tr/tls
    UTR9 (lol, this went up from 7, without me playing any more matches... one of my matches i lost (took a handful of games off him), the guy beat more guys and went up to 11)
     
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  35. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    i think it depends on what you're getting out of it... if just tennis, yeah, lame. play your level - no need to do "nationals" for a good match.
    BUT i played on some teams where we were really tight on/off the courts... and it was a social/party every time we hung out... so i would have definitely sandbagged for that team, to give us a chance to fly out for nationals.
    presuming we didn't get arrested, it would be hella fun, win or lose.
     
    #35
  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Wait, what's wrong with having an Eastern forehand?

    J
     
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  37. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    sorry, meanth easter fh grip for serve (ie. pseudo frying pan serve/waiters tray serve)
     
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  38. CT-Topspin

    CT-Topspin New User

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    @nytennisaddict I think your post sums up my experience in my league currently playing singles at 3.0. Would you say most of the guys at the top of a 3.0 team could compete (or even beat a 3.5?).

    What has your experience been in tournaments vs league play (i.e. what has been more competitive?)
     
    #38
  39. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    presuming singles...
    sure a top 3.0 team could compete, or even beat a bottom 3.5 team... keep in mind the decimal ratings could be really close
    ie. the avg of a top 3.0 team might be 2.99
    ie. the avg of a bottom 3.5 team might be 3.01
    and in the end, USTA could later group folks different for purposes of bucketing, and now the 3.0's could become 3.5's (or vice versa)

    tourney vs. leageu.... tourney is typically more competitive. you kinda gotta be serious to:
    * pay $75 for a single elim tourney
    * travel
    * play a lonely match with no one watching
    * etc....

    (comparing to open tournaments.... i've never played an NTRP tourney, as i find it's mostly folks "playing up")
     
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  40. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I was gonna say...

    J
     
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  41. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    hehe between you and delpo, i'd never disrespect the eastern fh
     
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  42. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I think this is what he is asking.

    4.0 tournament singles is usually weaker than 4.0 league singles. 4.0 league will have the best players they can find playing singles while a 4.0 tournament will have 3.5s playing up and 4.0s who want to play singles but aren't good enough to play singles for a team.

    J
     
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  43. CT-Topspin

    CT-Topspin New User

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    This combination of explanations has actually made perfect sense of all my experiences with USTA thusfar. It has actually been driving me crazy lately.

    Thanks guys!
     
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  44. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    Wait, what's wrong with that?
     
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  45. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    if you can get your serve with good pace/spin, in the location you want, then nothing.
    but i find most folks with efh grip serves tend to have blazingly fast 1st serve that lands out 95% of the time, and a dinky 2nd serve that is fun to beat up on.
     
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  46. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Hall of Fame

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    Just want to add, at 3.0 and to a lesser extent 3.5, the difference between the bottom and the top of the level can be really broad. I think the skill/capability band shrinks with each level you go up.

    Additionally, there is much more room for rapid improvement at both 3.0 and 3.5 so someone with a C rating in January can by mid-summer / early Fall look like a totally different player but still has that C rating.
     
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  47. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  48. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Not at all.

    J
     
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  49. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Well you're half right!

    J
     
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  50. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Hall of Fame

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    Really? You think the skill difference between a low 3.0 and a high 3.0 is the same gap as between a low 4.5 and a high 4.5?

    At least on the ladies' side, I see huge swings in 3.0, a little less variance at 3.5 and less still at 4.0
     
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