Golfer's Elbow

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
I went to PT today and she said I should do that stretch at least 3 times per day since it is giving me relief. She also gave me some other exercises to do once per day as well.

Lastly, I’m supposed to ice massage the area at least three times per day. I didn’t realize that with direct ice contact I should go no longer than 2 minutes or just to numb.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Actually found an exercise that really is helping my golfer's elbow. Since most of the discomfort was coming from pronation I assumed the pronator teres was likely heavily involved in my symptoms. So I grabbed a 9 iron from my golf club set and held it vertically in my hand midway up the grip. Then I gradually supinated the forearm so the club went from vertical to horizontal. The weight of the club head provided a good stretch of the pronator teres and the slow motion provided eccentric muscle contraction to help in remodeling the tendon and muscle fibers. I then used my left hand to grab the end of the grip and help get the club vertical again. Did the exercise 10 times each with the arm flexed and extended.

After a weekend using the stretch my GE feels much better. I also did not play tennis over the long weekend but I did golf 18 holes every day. Funny how it's called golfer's elbow but I've never had pain golfing. Anyways, virtually no pain or tenderness today.

Another exercise to include in my "tendon maintenance" loop. Eccentric heel drops, inclined single leg squats, Flexbar twists and golf club supinations. Getting old is so much fun.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
I did something similar with a frying pan.
Rotate it from noon to 9am and 3pm
Nothing works better than rest, however
Rest helps you physically feel better but it doesn't help you emotionally/spiritually. My mother-in-law never played sports and doesn't have any sore tendons. Just osteoporosis and a weak heart and a boring, fearful life. Compromises need to be made sometimes.
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
You guys are describing an exercise I’ve been assigned to do at PT. I should create a video of the exercises I do for it. My elbow has gotten tremendously better but I’m at a good part of the calendar year for me to take a few months off from play. The rest should do me good.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
I am on my 3rd bout of GE/TE over a 20 year stretch. 1st one was short lived and it happened when I switched to very stiff strings (Lux Ti-Mo). I was also younger (early 30s). 2nd one happened about 3 yrs ago from playing too much like daily, sometimes twice a day.
Here's what I tried:
ICE after playing for 10 minutes. ICE an additional 2-3 times a day at 10 minutes per time.
Massage the tendon. There are good youtube videos on this. The massage is with the thumb digging deep into the medial epicondyle. It hurts like hell while doing it.
Theraband.
The various bands that are supposed to keep the tendon from moving.
Pronation with a hammer to strengthen everything.
The pronation + massage worked the best. The theory goes that these injuries are happening because the collagen that we make as we age is basically defective. It is not as elastic as it should be. Tendons are made with collagen. Once the elasticity goes, the tendon gets to have these micro tears that are not even visible (at least in my case) through ultrasound. The micro tears scar and they make the tendon even less flexible. The massage tends to break up the scars.
Also found that taking ibuprofen before playing made it so that the pain never flared up. I think the injury is inflammation induced. Having ibuprofen in the system prevents the inflammation from taking hold.
I think I am getting a 3rd bout starting now. I played a long 3.5 hours of tennis last weekend and since then I've been waking up with an achy elbow every morning.
I also know I am a stomach sleeper and my arm inadvertantly ends up under the pillow and under my head.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
In addition to stretching, massage and the eccentric supination exercise (golf club, frypan, hammer), I've also really found that focusing on keeping my grip really loose during play has helped a ton.

I'm not a fan of icing since I think getting some inflammation and blood flow into the area is good for healing. I tend to ice acute injuries and warm chronic ones. But maybe I should give it a try after play.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
In addition to stretching, massage and the eccentric supination exercise (golf club, frypan, hammer), I've also really found that focusing on keeping my grip really loose during play has helped a ton.

I'm not a fan of icing since I think getting some inflammation and blood flow into the area is good for healing. I tend to ice acute injuries and warm chronic ones. But maybe I should give it a try after play.
Icing does get blood in there. The body tries to maintain temps by increasing blood flow. What goes away with ice is the inflammation. At least that's how I understand the healing process that icing promotes.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Icing does get blood in there. The body tries to maintain temps by increasing blood flow. What goes away with ice is the inflammation. At least that's how I understand the healing process that icing promotes.
well I've added icing to the regimen and it may be coincidence but things are turning around. Feels like i've turned the corner. Was very regimented with the eccentric exercises, stretching, massage and ice as well as only using my POG 107.

And I cut back my playtime from 6 days a week to 4.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
well I've added icing to the regimen and it may be coincidence but things are turning around. Feels like i've turned the corner. Was very regimented with the eccentric exercises, stretching, massage and ice as well as only using my POG 107.

And I cut back my playtime from 6 days a week to 4.
Very nice. Another thing that works is digging in right at the tendon with your other hand's thumb. It may be very painful depending on how severe your GE is. What's weird is that after that, it feels so much better. The tip of the thumb breaks up the scar tissue which I think is what is causing the discomfort. I usually do it in that order. Thumb massage and then ice.
 

HouTex

Rookie
Ice never helped my TE. I iced it for 20 minutes 4-5 times a day for several months and saw no improvement (friends kept telling me not to stop). But heat seemed to help a lot. And deep message also helped, among other things. Some of you are fortunate to be able to play while treating your GE/TE. Playing was not an option for me. I was out for 20 months.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
Ice never helped my TE. I iced it for 20 minutes 4-5 times a day for several months and saw no improvement (friends kept telling me not to stop). But heat seemed to help a lot. And deep message also helped, among other things. Some of you are fortunate to be able to play while treating your GE/TE. Playing was not an option for me. I was out for 20 months.
I can play but can't hit FH volleys...Those push the racquet back in a manner that really puts all the strain on the medial epicondilyte.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Ice never helped my TE. I iced it for 20 minutes 4-5 times a day for several months and saw no improvement (friends kept telling me not to stop). But heat seemed to help a lot. And deep message also helped, among other things. Some of you are fortunate to be able to play while treating your GE/TE. Playing was not an option for me. I was out for 20 months.
I'm only icing immediately after playing. I don't think ice helps at other times. warming it up is better.

Very nice. Another thing that works is digging in right at the tendon with your other hand's thumb. It may be very painful depending on how severe your GE is. What's weird is that after that, it feels so much better. The tip of the thumb breaks up the scar tissue which I think is what is causing the discomfort. I usually do it in that order. Thumb massage and then ice.
Yes I've been doing the deep massage thing. Finally at the point it doesn't hurt like heck.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Well after a few months of doing all the things I could think of and getting to a plateau where I could play without pain but still couldn't lift anything heavy, I've decided I do have to rest it.

We'll see how long a rest period i need but after one week away from tennis it's feeling better already.
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
I’ve only played once since August and that was a light hit. My elbow felt slightly sore afterward but the pain went away the next day.

The stiffness is 99% gone. I’ve backed off of doing all of the PT exercises. My strength has mostly returned and I’m not in pain. Every once in a while I feel some pain in my forearm if I’m throwing something like a basketball. My goal is to start playing again in the new year and remain pain free. If I feel pain, I’ll shut down my play immediately and wait another couple of months.

I’m tired of being injured.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I am 21 years old, high level player, and I started to develop GE. I finally told myself I would stop playing for a bit. It has been a week, and I know that is nothing, and I am going to start physiotherapy this week, but what confuses me is that I have NOT played and my elbow hurts me sometimes at night and when I wake up. I get pain when I try to straighten out my elbow and it gets really tight and stiff. Why does this happen if I am not even playing???
This excercise will cure your golfer elbow so fast, its amazing.

 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Icing does get blood in there. The body tries to maintain temps by increasing blood flow. What goes away with ice is the inflammation. At least that's how I understand the healing process that icing promotes.
I have been diagnosed with "mild rotator cuff tendonitis of supraspinatus and infraspinatus". It briefly feels better if I ice, but I need to ice 5 times a day.
It also feels better after hot shower, so not sure if blood flow increases with both ice and heat.
:unsure:

Is ultrasound good for tennis elbow?
Doctors sometimes recommend very different treatments for both tennis elbow and golfer's elbow. According to the studies done so far, the following treatments can help: ... Ultrasound therapy: The arm is exposed to high-frequency sound waves. This warms the tissue, which improves the circulation of blood.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
UPDATE: Despite my prior belief that the nervous system theory was accurate and that it healed me, it did not. I've been to several doctors at this point, and I ended up at Anthony Galea's place. Recall I did an MRI last year and the only thing it said was minor edema of the ulnar nerve. Well, nobody thought to do an ultrasound on me because of the MRI results, but Galea did one and found a microtear in my forearm flexor. It was 7mm in length and he said that pain I felt in June 2014 when it first happened was me tearing the muscle on a serve. He said it was too small to show up on the MRI.
Did not know this. So an ultrasound picks up tears that MRI does not. :unsure:

Another note: I have seen several Doctors discussing shoulder tendon injuries and they clearly said that many people are walking around with tendon tears but with no symptoms or reduction in function. Somehow the body is able to compensate. So I am skeptical that 7mm microtear is the definitive cause. It may or may not be.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
I have been diagnosed with "mild rotator cuff tendonitis of supraspinatus and infraspinatus". It briefly feels better if I ice, but I need to ice 5 times a day.
It also feels better after hot shower, so not sure if blood flow increases with both ice and heat.
:unsure:

Is ultrasound good for tennis elbow?
Doctors sometimes recommend very different treatments for both tennis elbow and golfer's elbow. According to the studies done so far, the following treatments can help: ... Ultrasound therapy: The arm is exposed to high-frequency sound waves. This warms the tissue, which improves the circulation of blood.
I think any increase in circulation helps the healing process. Both heat and cold can accomplish that. The benefit of cold is that it decreases swelling/inflammation.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Well after a few months of doing all the things I could think of and getting to a plateau where I could play without pain but still couldn't lift anything heavy, I've decided I do have to rest it.

We'll see how long a rest period i need but after one week away from tennis it's feeling better already.
Well after 4 weeks of rest I kind of plateaued and wasn't really changing much. Still can't lift items. So I bit the bullet and went to the physiotherapist. She found I had quite limited strength in my supinator and internal shoulder rotators (Latissmus mostly). Interestingly 2 years ago I had a pinched C7 nerve and while I recognized the triceps and pec weakness from it, I wasn't aware that I'd weakened the lat and supinator so much. I had worked to strengthen the pec and triceps but done nothing for the supinator.
So she presumed the golfer's elbow may have happened because I was overpronating without adequate support from the supinator and adequate power addition from the lat.

Long story short, I've got a bunch of exercises to do to strengthen the lat and supinator eccentrically and still do my eccentric pronation exercises. We'll see how that goes but it probably does pay to look at all the muscles in the arm when problems arise and not just focus on the one that hurts.
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
Well after 4 weeks of rest I kind of plateaued and wasn't really changing much. Still can't lift items. So I bit the bullet and went to the physiotherapist. She found I had quite limited strength in my supinator and internal shoulder rotators (Latissmus mostly). Interestingly 2 years ago I had a pinched C7 nerve and while I recognized the triceps and pec weakness from it, I wasn't aware that I'd weakened the lat and supinator so much. I had worked to strengthen the pec and triceps but done nothing for the supinator.
So she presumed the golfer's elbow may have happened because I was overpronating without adequate support from the supinator and adequate power addition from the lat.

Long story short, I've got a bunch of exercises to do to strengthen the lat and supinator eccentrically and still do my eccentric pronation exercises. We'll see how that goes but it probably does pay to look at all the muscles in the arm when problems arise and not just focus on the one that hurts.
Interesting. While I was in PT, they checked me to see if it was a rotator cuff injury causing my elbow. It wasn’t but she was advised that many ge injuries are caused by weak rotator cuff or shoulder injuries.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Well I've been working on my shoulder and supinator over the last month. Still have some GE issues but it does feel like it's going the right way. I can play more often pain free and the discomfort after is of shorter duration. Also feel I'm getting more of my arm involved in my swing, especially overheads and serves.

I can see some light right now and hopefully the end of the tunnel is near.

When there is a tendon issue, it does pay to look at the other joints in the chain and make sure those muscles are strong and flexible too.
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
I've been playing at most once a week. This past week I had almost no pain and no stiffness the next day. I continue to do my exercises and have been wearing The Bandit brace too.
 

Cole W

New User
I've had this injury over the last several months as I've aged and singles matches go longer in more competitive leagues. However, stretching according to many of the links in this thread and lifting weights has helped strengthen the tendon. I started with a five pound weight doing wrist curls, but now went to full arm curls at 25 pounds. Helped a lot. I switched from my Wilson n-code 6.1 95 to a Clash 98 and Tour Bite Soft 18. Will try the gut - poly blend idea above.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
So I think I'm finally onto the recovery road. It's been a journey.
It all started 4 years ago with TE that developed while playing the de rigeur Pure Drive with gut/4G. Switched away from poly and light stiff racquets and the TE went away and has never returned.

However the bad habits I'd developed with the lighter more powerful frames eventually lead to GE issues. With the PD I could generate enough power with the wrist and forearm that I had not developed a full stroke full utilizing my shoulder and core. With the heavier softer racquets that same kind of stroke led to a lot of torque through the elbow pronators. Eventually I started getting GE pain.

So after trying all sorts of stretches, eccentric exercises, etc I decided to really look at technique. I strengthened my shoulder ISR muscles which helped my deliver better kinetic chain on my serve. But I was still feeling discomfort on the FH. Looking at some video I realized I was too often getting in too tight to the ball and hitting with a bent forearm that limited the power from the big muscles and used the elbow and wrist almost exclusively.

So now I'm working on getting better spacing from the ball and keeping my elbow away from the body on the FH. Huge difference on the shock to the elbow. First off, my lever arm has lengthened giving me more free power on the stroke so I don't have to over swing. Secondly the extended arm protects the elbow from impact shock so I hardly feel the hit in my GE even on framed shots.

So for me it's clearly been a case of light stiff racquets initially causing TE but also allowing the swing flaws to develop that led to GE. Technique and equipment are important as are conditioning the body.

Now hopefully I won't wreck my shoulder and get tendinitis in the rotator cuff!
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
So I think I'm finally onto the recovery road. It's been a journey.
It all started 4 years ago with TE that developed while playing the de rigeur Pure Drive with gut/4G. Switched away from poly and light stiff racquets and the TE went away and has never returned.

However the bad habits I'd developed with the lighter more powerful frames eventually lead to GE issues. With the PD I could generate enough power with the wrist and forearm that I had not developed a full stroke full utilizing my shoulder and core. With the heavier softer racquets that same kind of stroke led to a lot of torque through the elbow pronators. Eventually I started getting GE pain.

So after trying all sorts of stretches, eccentric exercises, etc I decided to really look at technique. I strengthened my shoulder ISR muscles which helped my deliver better kinetic chain on my serve. But I was still feeling discomfort on the FH. Looking at some video I realized I was too often getting in too tight to the ball and hitting with a bent forearm that limited the power from the big muscles and used the elbow and wrist almost exclusively.

So now I'm working on getting better spacing from the ball and keeping my elbow away from the body on the FH. Huge difference on the shock to the elbow. First off, my lever arm has lengthened giving me more free power on the stroke so I don't have to over swing. Secondly the extended arm protects the elbow from impact shock so I hardly feel the hit in my GE even on framed shots.

So for me it's clearly been a case of light stiff racquets initially causing TE but also allowing the swing flaws to develop that led to GE. Technique and equipment are important as are conditioning the body.

Now hopefully I won't wreck my shoulder and get tendinitis in the rotator cuff!
Oh boy, you sound a lot like me. I've been derailed the past couple of months. I had the TE which I was working on but then out of the blue about a month ago my shoulder started hurting. It wasn't even tennis related. One day it just hurt. I started doing the PT instructed exercises but I've had minimal improvement. When the shoulder flares up so does my arm so it is related. I tried to go play last weekend and pulled something in my lower back. I think playing with an injury causes a cascade of injuries to appear. Totally sucks.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Really happy with the new FH technical changes. So happy I played 5 days in a row last week and that was pretty dumb. Took the weekend off and everything's much better again. But I should stick to 3x per week max until it's really recovered. Learned my lesson.

Things are coming along.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Still getting stronger. Increased the eccentric pronation to 2-3 sets twice a day. New FH is much better on my arm. Played yesterday and today and feel pretty normal right now 3 hours post match.
Helps I’m down in Palm Desert where the dry heat is so nice on my body. Cold damp winters are pretty harsh.
 

pats300zx1

New User
For those that are using the Theraband Flex Bar for TE/GE issues how often are you doing the exercises? I am doing 3 sets of 15 now daily.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
For those that are using the Theraband Flex Bar for TE/GE issues how often are you doing the exercises? I am doing 3 sets of 15 now daily.
when I had TE I was doing 2 sets of 15 daily. Still do one set a day to keep extensor tendon healthy. I found the flex bar wasn’t so good for GE since it was more the pronator muscle that was the issue. Eccentric pronation with any lopsided object worked better for me.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
I had a forearm massage by a physical therapist the other day. I was told my muscles were too stiff and ropey and thus they tug on the tendons too much. The massage was extremely painful because of that stiff/ropey consistency but my arm felt really good afterwards. I will keep doing it.

p.s. That was not the 1st time I was told this. Last time I had PT for TE I was told the same thing, that was like 10 years ago. The pitfall of too much gym is stiffer muscles.
 

speedysteve

Legend
For those that are using the Theraband Flex Bar for TE/GE issues how often are you doing the exercises? I am doing 3 sets of 15 now daily.
I do 3x12 twice or three times in one day and then have a rest day.
I do both TE and GE exercises.
I also do dumbbell curls with very slow extension, same numbers.
 

Miki 1234

New User
I am 21 years old, high level player, and I started to develop GE. I finally told myself I would stop playing for a bit. It has been a week, and I know that is nothing, and I am going to start physiotherapy this week, but what confuses me is that I have NOT played and my elbow hurts me sometimes at night and when I wake up. I get pain when I try to straighten out my elbow and it gets really tight and stiff. Why does this happen if I am not even playing???.
I am 21 years old, high level player, and I started to develop GE. I finally told myself I would stop playing for a bit. It has been a week, and I know that is nothing, and I am going to start physiotherapy this week, but what confuses me is that I have NOT played and my elbow hurts me sometimes at night and when I wake up. I get pain when I try to straighten out my elbow and it gets really tight and stiff. Why does this happen if I am not even playing???
I had tennis elbow , golf elbow and impigement nerv same time , the nerve i needed to operate the othet stuff went away with practice and massage. I do few sets od dumbells 3 to 4 kg and elastic tape. Then some biceps curs with a elastic tape in all fist positions.The point if the exercise is not to hurt at all but to promote blood flow . So go light as you need to feel no pain and huge reps. Big reps vs small reps for tendon healing.Now i bought relax and spin tone massager and i massage it like crazy . Till the point my arm looks like a mess ita always bloody hehe. Never go near tendon tho just muscle.Muscle needs to be like butter very soft. And this takes time. For some reason once i got tennis elbow my muscle always wants to be tight and i need to massage it all the time. Massage is crucial so you dont feel pain in the night. Deep massage needs to hurt and you need to have bruises ...but no were near tendon pain... It may not even be ge but really bad stretch so maybe you dont need to stretch it at all it will just make it worse...
Just few tip coz i had it all hehe even some rice kind of lumps and water in elbow on top of tennis elbow golfer and impigement nerv.
 
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Finster

New User
I've had the pain for a few months, so I went to see a physio last month, and with one week of doing forearm curls, the pain went away 100%. But then I started playing again and stopped the exercises, it came back. I am going to a new physio tomorrow and obviously I will not stop the exercises this time, but do you really think it could be tendinosis if I was initially able to recover in a week?
Yes. If you recovered that quickly its most likely you have epicondylitis or tendinosis rather than a frank tendon tear which is much more painful and takes much more time to recover. I would stop playing for at least a few weeks, do stretching, buy a flexbar and do reverse Tyler twists. Heat is also helpful.
 

hochiglenn

New User
I had GE for over a year. I tried everything. The ONLY thing that worked for me was ASTYM therapy. Now I use a more flexible racket and softer strings. Haven’t had an issue in 2-3 years. Find an ASTYM certified therapist and give it a shot. I was at my wits end before finding this method. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tennishabit

Hall of Fame
don't squeeze the racquet at all and no GE. Get your racquets grip right so you can make contact with the lightest grip possible.
yup absolutely agree............all abt avoiding death grip. no need the 'cure' if no problem at 1st plc.

dt's pretty right saying something like 'the cure can't be worse than the problem itself':-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D..................
 
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