Gonna Try A Two Handed Forehand...Is This Bad?

U

UW_Husky88

Rookie
So basically, I've been playing for a while, and am thoroughly frustrated with my forehand. Its so damn inconsistent and it always seems to fail me when I need it most. The irony is that my 2 handed backhand is my best shot and, even after I don't play for a long time, is always solid (its actually more powerful as well) but my forehand is absolute garbage, and I find myself slicing and using it defensively.

I tried, just for fun with friends, to hit with two hands on the forehand and I felt that it was much more solid. Obviously, at the moment, its not as good as my one-hander since the timing and my stance are off, but I'm seriously wondering, if I actually spend time developing it, if its worth switching. I also don't have to change grips, which saves me some time in racket preparation. However, I hear that two handers are bad for the forehand from lots of pros, so I'm wondering if you guys think its worth a shot, or should I just struggle with the one handed forehand until it works? Does anyone know people who play with two hands on both wings that do well?

thanks
 
Try it.
Lots of very good players are using 2hfh, can hit harder with more weight, and are very consistent. Only possible downside is that there are less models to look at.
You might have to run half a step farther out to your forehand side, but conditioning can overcome that.
 
you might want to work on a 1 handed forehand slice for the instances in which you find yourself too stretched out to hit a 2hfh. Santoro did this quite often and kept a lot of balls in play this way.
 
Well before you invest your time in a two handed forehand, discipline yourself to follow your coach's instructions on the forehand (first, get a coach) or watch FYB2007 on youtube on how to hit a forehand.
 
I have seen an incredible 2hfh player before... Seeded in a juniors state tournament. By all means, go for it.
 
Hey Husky If you feel your more consistent then adapt to the 2hands.I've been hitting 2hands for years.Check my vid,Flat deep hard balls,that skid,gotta be early.If your not in shape then forget about it.But if your ohfh is as horrible as you say it is with no chance for any improvement.What do you got to lose,beside the match.Practice the 2 hands be sure to get on your front foot.Good Luck.
 
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Why don't you post a video of your forehand first and we can analyze it.

Although some players can make the 2handed forehand work, I think it's an extreme solution. Why? the normal forehand is just less restricted and more versatile and will give you more reach and easier angles.
 
Having a fair amount of experience in teaching the two-handed forehand, and knowing what it can and can't do, I suggest a couple things:

1. make sure you are learning the Seles/Bartoli version, not the Mayer or Gambill version.

2. This means to keep your dominant hand at the bottom like a conventional one-hander. Using the cross over grip like this, make sure you don't cross the wrists as it will open up the racquet.

3. Work your feet and make sure you are in a balanced position. (If you can "hold your finish" you will be in a balanced hitting position.)

4. Work the stroke with diligence. Don't just flail or go in and out of the shot.

If you work these patterns, (also, you can read either of my two books, Tennis Mastery or Coaching Mastery as both have extensive teachings and discussions on the two-handed forehand), you will either develop a solid two-hander or learn to hit a better one hander through this practice.

Because any one handed "correction" to your currently flawed stroke is too close to the flawed pattern. The two-hander can allow you to retool your forehand, and return to a better one-hander at any point. In the process you might learn to move better, get in better position, and hit with a better reliable/repeatable swing pattern.

Good luck!
 
Pancho Segura had a two-handed forehand that Jack Kramer described as "the best shot in tennis", so I wouldn't blanketly say that a two-handed forehand is bad. It might be right for you.
 
I'm gonna buck the trend. I'm gonna challenge you to have the same conviction and courage and be serious and patient about really fixing your 1hfh. Rarely would I go against what Dave says.

I say this as someone who was in the same boat when I was in HS (in the day of Gene Mayer) and tried the 2HFH for nearly a year. A couple results from that:
- I had an ok 2hfh but not great one.
- I still had a crummy fh - with 2 hands!
- I ultimately was frustrated enough to quit playing for for 3 months.
- I ultimately went back to a 1hfh

Ultimately it was just a waste of time in my case. And I had lots to fix in my FH at the time. Eventually I put in lots of work (it's not easy to overcome lots of bad history/technique) over a period of years to overcome it.

I fully expect your mileage to vary. I'd rather you not fall down the same rabbit hole I did.

Do what's right for you, K_I
 
Kick_It said:
I'm gonna buck the trend. I'm gonna challenge you to have the same conviction and courage and be serious and patient about really fixing your 1hfh. Rarely would I go against what Dave says.

I say this as someone who was in the same boat when I was in HS (in the day of Gene Mayer) and tried the 2HFH for nearly a year. A couple results from that:
- I had an ok 2hfh but not great one.
- I still had a crummy fh - with 2 hands!
- I ultimately was frustrated enough to quit playing for for 3 months.
- I ultimately went back to a 1hfh

Ultimately it was just a waste of time in my case. And I had lots to fix in my FH at the time. Eventually I put in lots of work (it's not easy to overcome lots of bad history/technique) over a period of years to overcome it.

I fully expect your mileage to vary. I'd rather you not fall down the same rabbit hole I did.

Do what's right for you, K_I
Click to expand...

I won't claim that the two-hander works for everyone, and I would have to see Kick-it's use of the two-hander to see if I would have considered it the right approach or perhaps he used a different stroke pattern than that which I have used in teaching players. Among the hundreds of players I've taught the stroke, I've never had a player "fall down a rabbit hole" as Kick-it ended up doing, (I like that description though!) but, I do agree 100% like any shot in tennis, some will like it/take to it better than others.

In most cases, the two-handed forehand (when learned correctly) has helped players break through a frustrating forehand.

Also, I would only work the shot for no more than three months; if learning it correctly, you should have a good handle on the shot. I would not spend a year on any change if it wasn't becoming an effective, dependable stroke after three month.

Kick-it, sorry you had a bad experience with the shot! Hope your forehand has become the shot you want it to be since!
 
Also, I think that the 2-handed forehand is a great teaching tool to develop proper shoulder turn and weight shift in new players. So many of the pros now bring back the racquet with two hands, release, and then basically shadow the racquet handle with the off-hand to catch the racquet on the follow through, so you can see that players start with two hands and learn to release once their hands/wrist get stronger.
 
Appreciate Dave's comments.

One addition - whatever change you make be it a 2hander or serious rehab on a one hander - get some great coaching to not only guide you thru the change but also provide feedback and fine tune it so you are producing the stroke correctly, and your footwork is correct before the shot.

I've since recovered from my experiment just fine (about 25 yrs ago) - but it took me at least two years of hard work to really overcome my deficiencies to end up with a respectable shot that could hold its own against tough players.

Be ready to put in your equivalent of hard work to end up with the result you are looking for - and hear the things you don't want to hear from a coach to do so.

Good Luck! K_I
 
1st Seed said:
Hey Husky If you feel your more consistent then adapt to the 2hands.I've been hitting 2hands for years.Check my vid,Flat deep hard balls,that skid,gotta be early.If your not in shape then forget about it.But if your ohfh is as horrible as you say it is with no chance for any improvement.What do you got to lose,beside the match.Practice the 2 hands be sure to get on your front foot.Good Luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTNLgQ1X2UA
Click to expand...

Just curious - are you a lefty? Looks like your grip would be for a left-handed 1hfh and your actually hitting a 2hbh on the right side. Or this could be the difference in grip as Mastery points out.
 
CoachingMastery said:
If you work these patterns, (also, you can read either of my two books, Tennis Mastery or Coaching Mastery as both have extensive teachings and discussions on the two-handed forehand), you will either develop a solid two-hander or learn to hit a better one hander through this practice.

Because any one handed "correction" to your currently flawed stroke is too close to the flawed pattern. The two-hander can allow you to retool your forehand, and return to a better one-hander at any point. In the process you might learn to move better, get in better position, and hit with a better reliable/repeatable swing pattern.
Click to expand...

The "fixing" part is interesting to me. My 8 year old son tends to open the racket face and slice his forehand, but only at the baseline against incoming balls (doesn't do it with dropped or tossed balls). At the same time, his 2hbh is great. I was thinking of adding the second hand to the forehand to keep the racket face square at impact so he learns how it feels.

Have you had any experience with this?
 
Results is what counts.
Do what you have to do to get the flat or topspin shot.
He can work out whether to stay with 2hfh or change to 1hfh later.
 
After sparingly flirting with the 2HFH for a while for just the fun of it, I am really starting to groove with this shot.

I absolutely see no reason why one can't use this shot competitively and do well with it.. That is just my opinion FWIW...
 
BMC9670 said:
The "fixing" part is interesting to me. My 8 year old son tends to open the racket face and slice his forehand, but only at the baseline against incoming balls (doesn't do it with dropped or tossed balls). At the same time, his 2hbh is great. I was thinking of adding the second hand to the forehand to keep the racket face square at impact so he learns how it feels.

Have you had any experience with this?
Click to expand...

I would definately teach an 8-year old the two-handed forehand for not just the reasons I posted above, but for this very reason too: young kids usually don't have the perception of what their racquet is doing on their backswing, usually losing stability and consistency once the turn is initiated. (Plus, they are focused on the incoming ball which is why they lose perception of the racquet...when you drop-feed, they are usually able to focus better on the racquet since they don't have to negotiate the incoming bounce and speed of a ball tossed or hit too them.)

If you are interested, read my 8-part series on "Training an 8-year old" where I documented the actual training of my 8-year old daughter, Kyla for TennisOne.com. In the series I show all the training progressions, tools and results in real time. (I didn't train her before and then show her progressions!)

In the articles I show her two-handed strokes, her topspin, and hybrid serves, volleys and slices and her progression to rallies and developing more advanced footwork and stroke patterns.

Hope that helps! Good luck to you and your boy.
 
jb193 said:
After sparingly flirting with the 2HFH for a while for just the fun of it, I am really starting to groove with this shot.

I absolutely see no reason why one can't use this shot competitively and do well with it.. That is just my opinion FWIW...
Click to expand...

Obviously, if a number of pros on tour are using the shot, it certainly can indeed be used competitively!
 
CoachingMastery said:
Obviously, if a number of pros on tour are using the shot, it certainly can indeed be used competitively!
Click to expand...

Coaching,

You're aware that he was talking about 2h FH, right?

Other than that Santos something in some ancient matches that are repeated shown as an example in Best of 5 most awkward strokes or something I have not seen anyone else...And good riddance.
 
If you do, maybe try one of these:

2handlesNaturalTennisRacket.jpg
 
UW_Husky88 said:
Like who? Know of any top 100-200 players that use it on mens or womens side?
Click to expand...

Besides Monica Seles who was #1 in the world at one point (and is retired now):

Marion Bartoli, (top 20 in the world)
Peng Shuai, (Top 50 in the world)
Akiko Morigami (Top 25 in the world in doubles)
Akiko Nakimura (Also top 25 in the world in doubles)

Fabrice Santoro (recently retired top 30 in the world mens)
Jan Michael Gambil (retired top 30 in the world mens)
Mark Knowles (awesome doubles player, top 20 in the world)

I know there are a few more; I've only listed those in the top 50...in the top 200 there probably a few more.

I am also aware of a few top college players and top-ranked juniors, (namely the top junior boy in Hawaii and one of the top junior boys in CA are both two handers); the top 18 year old girl in So. Cal was also a two hander on both sides.
 
I'm a Righty

BMC9670 said:
Just curious - are you a lefty? Looks like your grip would be for a left-handed 1hfh and your actually hitting a 2hbh on the right side. Or this could be the difference in grip as Mastery points out.
Click to expand...

I on the other hand am a righty that hits lefty.But hit very hard and flat,I also 2nd Dave's advice to hit similar to monic'a or Bartoli's.Most of my shots clear the net by no more than 3" really has to be seen to be truly appreciated.Since I've been stomping almost everyone I play there's no need to change a thing.

I learned to put my dominant hand on top and don't switch for the BH.Unusal but deadly.:???:
 
user92626 said:
Coaching,

You're aware that he was talking about 2h FH, right?

Other than that Santos something in some ancient matches that are repeated shown as an example in Best of 5 most awkward strokes or something I have not seen anyone else...And good riddance.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am very much aware he is talking about a two handed Forehand. As mentioned there are indeed a number of pros who are on tour, in the top 100 in the world, who use a two-handed forehand.

Certainly still a very small minority, for sure. But, go back to 1970 and I challenge too many of you to name a two-handed backhand player beyond Evert, Borg and Connors...and go back before them, and you will be harder pressed to name any others. (Of course, look at the two-handed backhand today.)

I'm not saying that the two-handed forehand will become a staple in the game like the backhand. I'm just pointing out two very interesting points: That the two-handed backhand was literally sworn at by most pros before 1970. Borg was asked after winning the French when he would switch to a one-hander; Even Jimmy Everet, Chris' dad discouraged her use of the two-handed backhand.

We see the same thing being said by many about the two-handed forehand. Yet, even as Seles was #1 in the world with one, just like the two-handed backhand, it would take a long time for pros to recognize the shot and then teach it to enough players to have more pros emerge with it. However, it is still not being taught by most pros. (Most have no idea how to teach it, and certainly most have never tried teaching it for any period of time to "test" the validity of the shot.)

From the number of upcoming top ranked juniors I've seen using the shot across the U.S. and beyond, (many more pros are teaching the shot in Europe and Asian countries), I think you will see many more emerging in the pros with a two-handed forehand.

Still, not as many two-handed backhands, but enough will continue to emerge that people will see the shot more and more.

Just my thoughts based on my experience.
 
Jeff Coetzee as well, a doubles specialist from South Africa. He's normally very highly ranked, although his ranking has dropped recently. Noppawan Leertchewakarn from Thailand is one of the top-ranked girls juniors and plays two handed on both sides. Regardless, other than famous people, there's a guy named Gary who plays a lot of doubles here where I live and he switched to a two handed forehand in the 70s after a conversation with Frew McMillan - who would hang out with him and give him playing advice whenever he was in town back when we had tournaments here. Pretty good story! Anyway, he's great, recieves serve on the service line and hits everything totally flat, really aggressive. That's the way to play if you are playing with two hands on both sides - learn to stand way in and take everything early, because if you try to grind from behind the baseline you will get waxed unless you are incredibly fast.
Edit: it was Frew McMillan, not Harold Solomon!
 
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CoachingMastery said:
Besides Monica Seles who was #1 in the world at one point (and is retired now):

Marion Bartoli, (top 20 in the world)
Peng Shuai, (Top 50 in the world)
Akiko Morigami (Top 25 in the world in doubles)
Akiko Nakimura (Also top 25 in the world in doubles)

Fabrice Santoro (recently retired top 30 in the world mens)
Jan Michael Gambil (retired top 30 in the world mens)
Mark Knowles (awesome doubles player, top 20 in the world)

I know there are a few more; I've only listed those in the top 50...in the top 200 there probably a few more.

I am also aware of a few top college players and top-ranked juniors, (namely the top junior boy in Hawaii and one of the top junior boys in CA are both two handers); the top 18 year old girl in So. Cal was also a two hander on both sides.
Click to expand...
FYI, you are getting Mark Knowles confused with Julian Knowle. Mark Knowles is a top doubles player from the Bahamas who plays with conventional strokes. Julian Knowle is from Austria, not as highly ranked, and does play with two hands on both sides.
 
Alright I'll give the 2HFH a wack (pun definitely intended) and see how it goes. Any good articles about grips and other things regarding the shot? Google hasn't brought too much unfortunately.
 
orangettecoleman said:
FYI, you are getting Mark Knowles confused with Julian Knowle. Mark Knowles is a top doubles player from the Bahamas who plays with conventional strokes. Julian Knowle is from Austria, not as highly ranked, and does play with two hands on both sides.
Click to expand...

Right you are! I am so bad! I watched Julian play doubles with Guga at the U.S. open when he WAS ranked much higher...but, you are absolutely right, Mark is a conventional stroker, Julian used two hands for almost every shot, except the serve and overhead!
 
UW_Husky88 said:
Alright I'll give the 2HFH a wack (pun definitely intended) and see how it goes. Any good articles about grips and other things regarding the shot? Google hasn't brought too much unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I've done several articles on the two-handed forehand on TennisOne.com and have covered the stroke in depth with both my books, Tennis Mastery and Coaching Mastery, (found here at Tennis Warehouse). I wish I could recommend something else, but there is still very little out there concerning the stroke in the U.S. (There are many more instructors teaching the shot in Europe and Asian countries.)
 
I've decided to try to learn the THFH.
I have been having a little arm trouble which I think may be attributed to my serve mechanics.
I have notice that my forehand though, when hit a little too hard and whippy, aggravates this strange spot in-between my right tricep and bicep .
Although I would like to still use my OHFH (of course) for certain shots like obviously one where the extra reach would be needed; and higher balls as well which can be a little awkward with THFH.
Today I played it against my friend who is just learning so I wasn't under any pressure. I did notice it (THFH) helped control my tendency to jerk my right arm where my pain is.
My only problem is I can't seem to hit it very consistently yet. MY main problem is that I seem to be generating more left Sidespin then topspin.
Any ideas?
IT seems I am having a hard time creating a smooth even topspin swing path like my backhand.
Thanks for you consideration...
Maybe I'll buy the book; which one should I get?
 
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I wonder if we are going to see a two-handed serve any time soon.

Just imagine the amount of control. Ideal for second serves.

)
 
Maybe after a bounce, a modified underhanded serve if you will. Personally with all the drop shots I see lately, I'd like to see the under-hander more often. It would certainly add to the entertainment value, especially for those that could disguise it well. Who decides the trends in tennis anyway?-- The tennis (record) producers?
 
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