Gonzales, Laver and Rosewall win/loss record per year?

[Ipsen]

Does anyone know where could I find this data? Even if it's just their percentages at amateur and professional GS titles, it would be more than enough.

I am looking for the yearly overall win percentage that former legends used to have. Surprisingly enough, such data is available for Tilden, which is one of the oldest...but not for more recent players such as these three. Very surprising especially in Laver's case, whose legend is even bigger than Big Bill's.

Appreciate any help. Thanks everyone.

 

[urban]

In an older thread, which i generated: The structure of the old pro tour, page 2 ff., post 73 ff. the poster Krosero was so kind, to give all the win loss records per year of Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver, which he had at the time. Some numbers have changed a bit, because new findings were made in the meantime.

 

[Ipsen]

In an older thread, which i generated: The structure of the old pro tour, page 2 ff., post 73 ff. the poster Krosero was so kind, to give all the win loss records per year of Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver, which he had at the time. Some numbers have changed a bit, because new findings were made in the meantime.

Thank you so much! I'm going to go through it later, how were you guys able to find the records?

 

[Dan Lobb]

In an older thread, which i generated: The structure of the old pro tour, page 2 ff., post 73 ff. the poster Krosero was so kind, to give all the win loss records per year of Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver, which he had at the time. Some numbers have changed a bit, because new findings were made in the meantime.

There are no definitive records, because many matches were not reported or tabulated, especially in the old pro period when exhibitions could be held on a sudden arrangement and not reported anywhere.
The older eras have only approximate records.

 

[urban]

Its often not easy to find results, you have to go to local newspapers, which now have gone online for the greater part. The old pro results were a sort of iceberg with the greater bloc under the waterline. But in the last 10-15 years some careful researchers were able to find a lot of results, so now we do have no complete, but a pretty significant overview.
Sometimes you find new matches and events in new articles. I just found a recent article about the Laver-Vancouver connection, where an unheard match is mentioned, probably an exhibition between Laver and Newcombe in Vancouver in 1970. In Vancouver was a very lucrative WCT indoor event in 1970 and 1971, and in this context some other matches were performed. See:
www.tenniscanada.com/news/rivard-the-vancouver-laver-connell-connection/

 

[Scott_tennis]

Dan Lobb and Urban both raise interesting points on this topic

For Gonzales (or Gonzalez) - the most detailed compilation of his won/loss match record I have seen was posted by Krosero in this forum several years ago. Krosero generously shared his research and was appreciative of any (minor) contributions that I shared with him for his project. Hopefully those threads are still available for your viewing. Side note - while most of the top players have had published biographies, I don't think one has been written spanning the full career and life of Gonzales.

For Laver and Rosewall - AndrewTas put together lengthy lists of their individual results in the same fashion as Krosero did for Gonzales. I am also unsure if those documents are available in any archived threads here.

Some other suggestions:

Chris Jordan's book "The Professional Tennis Archive" lists individual professional match results of these players (and many more). The book contains solely professional match/tournament/tour results so it does not include any amateur matches. Also, while it does list the match results, it does not include subtotals for players annual results.

TennisBase contains results for both amateur and pro eras. Perhaps another poster who has access to TennisBase can add comments.

Finally, various other contributors to this forum (other than Krosero or AndrewTas) have, over the years, compiled their own records and may be willing to post those details or share information with you.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Dan Lobb and Urban both raise interesting points on this topic

For Gonzales (or Gonzalez) - the most detailed compilation of his won/loss match record I have seen was posted by Krosero in this forum several years ago. Krosero generously shared his research and was appreciative of any (minor) contributions that I shared with him for his project. Hopefully those threads are still available for your viewing. Side note - while most of the top players have had published biographies, I don't think one has been written spanning the full career and life of Gonzales.

For Laver and Rosewall - AndrewTas put together lengthy lists of their individual results in the same fashion as Krosero did for Gonzales. I am also unsure if those documents are available in any archived threads here.

Some other suggestions:

Chris Jordan's book "The Professional Tennis Archive" lists individual professional match results of these players (and many more). The book contains solely professional match/tournament/tour results so it does not include any amateur matches. Also, while it does list the match results, it does not include subtotals for players annual results.

TennisBase contains results for both amateur and pro eras. Perhaps another poster who has access to TennisBase can add comments.

Finally, various other contributors to this forum (other than Krosero or AndrewTas) have, over the years, compiled their own records and may be willing to post those details or share information with you.

Good luck in your search.

Unfortunately, some matches were not reported anywhere, so the final tallies remain approximations.

 

[Scott_tennis]

For Gonzales - see the thread "Pancho Gonzalez career stats" started by Krosero 5/13/2016.

The thread goes for 30 pages.

 

[Ipsen]

Dan Lobb and Urban both raise interesting points on this topic

For Gonzales (or Gonzalez) - the most detailed compilation of his won/loss match record I have seen was posted by Krosero in this forum several years ago. Krosero generously shared his research and was appreciative of any (minor) contributions that I shared with him for his project. Hopefully those threads are still available for your viewing. Side note - while most of the top players have had published biographies, I don't think one has been written spanning the full career and life of Gonzales.

For Laver and Rosewall - AndrewTas put together lengthy lists of their individual results in the same fashion as Krosero did for Gonzales. I am also unsure if those documents are available in any archived threads here.

Some other suggestions:

Chris Jordan's book "The Professional Tennis Archive" lists individual professional match results of these players (and many more). The book contains solely professional match/tournament/tour results so it does not include any amateur matches. Also, while it does list the match results, it does not include subtotals for players annual results.

TennisBase contains results for both amateur and pro eras. Perhaps another poster who has access to TennisBase can add comments.

Finally, various other contributors to this forum (other than Krosero or AndrewTas) have, over the years, compiled their own records and may be willing to post those details or share information with you.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks a lot, will look it up on Tennis Base, they seem to have the option to access their data for free during 1 week. I'm actually seeking information to verify whether it's actually true or not the statement that "players tended to peak later before Borg came around and tennis became a more physical sport".

I'm mostly interested now in Professional Tour/Open Era data since the Amateur Tour by those years was slightly inferior and the measurements have a big risk of bias.
However I'm struggling to find win/loss records for players born in the 1930s and 1940s...hopefully this will help.

Appreciate your comment, thanks again

Edit: tennisbase seems to be abandoned, their last tweet is from 2019, and registration gives an error every time I try. Their email address seems to be malfunctioning as well as my messages remain drafts and never become sent. Too bad.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Thanks a lot, will look it up on Tennis Base, they seem to have the option to access their data for free during 1 week. I'm actually seeking information to verify whether it's actually true or not the statement that "players tended to peak later before Borg came around and tennis became a more physical sport".

I'm mostly interested now in Professional Tour/Open Era data since the Amateur Tour by those years was slightly inferior and the measurements have a big risk of bias.
However I'm struggling to find win/loss records for players born in the 1930s and 1940s...hopefully this will help.

Appreciate your comment, thanks again

Edit: tennisbase seems to be abandoned, their last tweet is from 2019, and registration gives an error every time I try. Their email address seems to be malfunctioning as well as my messages remain drafts and never become sent. Too bad.

Sorry to hear this, I believe that some of the posters here were involved with Tennisbase.

 

[thrust]

Sorry to hear this, I believe that some of the posters here were involved with Tennisbase.

Tennisbase charges now, I think in Euros.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Tennisbase charges now, I think in Euros.

I thought that some of the posters here were involved in Tennisbase.

 

[BTURNER]

In an older thread, which i generated: The structure of the old pro tour, page 2 ff., post 73 ff. the poster Krosero was so kind, to give all the win loss records per year of Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver, which he had at the time. Some numbers have changed a bit, because new findings were made in the meantime.

That's what's missing around here! I have been feeling it. When was the last Krosero post on any topic that I have read? Umm. I hope I did not miss some bad news!

 

[Scott_tennis]

My last communication with "Krosero" was about 18 months ago. At that time he advised me that he and his family were doing well and that he was devoting his free time to activities other than tennis research. Hopefully he will return to this forum at some point in the future. I always appreciated his generosity in sharing information as well as the depth of his tennis research and interest in the sport. He was a major contributor to threads such as the Gonzales/z career results thread, various post-war pro tours and early open era season threads (those devoted to 1964 and 1970 come to mind). And the various "Cleveland" threads.

 

[Dan Lobb]

He has been very silent recently.

 

[Drob]

Its often not easy to find results, you have to go to local newspapers, which now have gone online for the greater part. The old pro results were a sort of iceberg with the greater bloc under the waterline. But in the last 10-15 years some careful researchers were able to find a lot of results, so now we do have no complete, but a pretty significant overview.
Sometimes you find new matches and events in new articles. I just found a recent article about the Laver-Vancouver connection, where an unheard match is mentioned, probably an exhibition between Laver and Newcombe in Vancouver in 1970. In Vancouver was a very lucrative WCT indoor event in 1970 and 1971, and in this context some other matches were performed. See:
www.tenniscanada.com/news/rivard-the-vancouver-laver-connell-connection/

I just discovered this big event, not in the records:

Does anyone know where could I find this data? Even if it's just their percentages at amateur and professional GS titles, it would be more than enough.

Chris Jordan's book "The Professional Tennis Archive" lists individual professional match results of these players (and many more). The book contains solely professional match/tournament/tour results so it does not include any amateur matches. Also, while it does list the match results, it does not include subtotals for players annual results.

TennisBase contains results for both amateur and pro eras. Perhaps another poster who has access to TennisBase can add comments.

Ipsen:


I assume you bought The Professional Tennis Archive.

If you need something that might be found on thetennisbase.com, let me know and I will look it up for you.