Good Bye, American Sedan

[ollinger]

Ford is down to the Mustang as it's only non-SUV/truck offering, GM recently built its last Chevy Impala and will be discontinuing other sedans including some Buicks and Cadillacs, and Chrysler's commitment to the (Dodge) Charger and (Chrysler) 300 is tenuous; dealers in my area don't usually seem to include them on their website new-car inventory lists, treating them as special-order-only items. European and Asian brands seem to still be committed to the sedan, with lots of new or updated model releases pending this year. What happened here? Have we gotten so enormous that we no longer fit in sedans?? Perhaps, as very small SUV-type vehicles are offered by Asian and European makers but generally not by American companies (and the few that may be offered in that size class are often made by their Asian subsidiary). Entire brands (Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Plymouth) have disappeared in the last few decades as well. I owned an Impala once, for a week. A family friend had it as a company car for one of his salesman and offered it to my wife and me. He said it leaked a bit in the wet. We decided to find out how much, so went through a car wash. As we stared at the window seals looking for leaks, water started rushing in through the floor boards until we were ankle-deep. I thanked him and gave the car back.

 

[sureshs]

They will come back in their electric versions.

 

[Bartelby]

If they can't make petrol-engine cars well they're not going to make a miraculous turn-around with the quality of their electric ones.

 

[Deleted member 766172]

American cars suck

 

[sureshs]

American sedans had the most features for a certain price point, but could not compete with Asian companies in quality.

 

[ollinger]

American cars suck

American sedans had the most features for a certain price point, but could not compete with Asian companies in quality.

certainly can't compete very effectively with Asian offerings, though in recent years have had reliability ratings as good as or better than the German brands

 

[sureshs]

certainly can't compete very effectively with Asian offerings, though in recent years have had reliability ratings as good as or better than the German brands

German brands have not had good reliability ratings.

Two executives (one from Volvo and one from VW) said recently that their Chinese factories produced better quality cars than their European ones, creating an uproar.

 

[ollinger]

If they can't make petrol-engine cars well they're not going to make a miraculous turn-around with the quality of their electric ones

Auto enthusiast magazines gave the Chevy Bolt fairly good reviews; price of gas and President Tangerine decimating the electric car tax credit makes it a somewhat moot point for the moment

 

[sureshs]

Auto enthusiast magazines gave the Chevy Bolt fairly good reviews; price of gas and President Tangerine decimating the electric car tax credit makes it a somewhat moot point for the moment

He will do anything for the cabal of oil and gas criminals.

 

[ollinger]

German brands have not had good reliability ratings

A former patient was an exec in the service division of one of the German brands; always had a headache when he saw me, said the big decline for the Germans was going to a much larger variety of engines in their lines, more than they could adequately engineer before release. Asian companies seem to get by with a smaller array of powerplant options.

 

[movdqa]

American cars suck

 

[Deleted member 766172]

Good point. I'm not a fan of the cybertruck, but I overlooked Tesla.

 

[movdqa]

A former patient was an exec in the service division of one of the German brands; always had a headache when he saw me, said the big decline for the Germans was going to a much larger variety of engines in their lines, more than they could adequately engineer before release. Asian companies seem to get by with a smaller array of powerplant options.

Toyota has three: 1.8 liter, 2.5 liter, 3.5 (or maybe 3.8). The 1.8 is awful. The 2.5 is very nice and efficient. The big engine gives you plenty of power on demand.

SUVs have higher ground clearance, better visibility and maybe the space is more convenient. I prefer cars myself.

 

[Bartelby]

Have you ever seen drivers trying to navigate a supermarket carpark in a SUV?

 

[movdqa]

He will do anything for the cabal of oil and gas criminals.

Oil and gas companies were destroyed today. $WTIC dropped to $20.83. I think that you'd need to go back a few decades to see that price.

Companies are going to go bankrupt.

GUSH, an oil and gas ETF was well over $100 a year ago. It's $0.38 today.

 

[BlueB]

Why have a sedan, while you can have a hatchback, station wagon, or a smallish SUV, depending on the flavor/size you needed?

The only sedan shaped car I would buy is a hard top convertible 4-seater. Even that, only as the second car.
Even Tesla 3 has a major downfall, for me, of no propper tail door, like model S.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

 

[ollinger]

Why have a sedan, while you can have a hatchback, station wagon, or a smallish SUV, depending on the flavor/size you needed?

Hatchback can of course be a sedan (Mazda 3, for example) though American makers have never had much success selling hatchbacks. Station wagons have also largely disappeared with a few exceptions. Sedans are certainly more enjoyable to drive, handle more securely

 

[Dan Lobb]

Is this the Mars model, designed for the future of mankind transferred to Mars? Looks like a space vehicle.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Look for the rebound of the ICE with new technology in the pipeline to reduce CO2 and methane emissions, and provide the green auto option everyone has been looking for.

The ICE will remain the most reliable and affordable option going forward.

 

[ollinger]

Even the Bentley Mulsanne, their larger (than the Flying Spur) sedan, is being dropped and will be replaced by an ultra-luxury SUV -- for people who feel the Bentayaga is roughing it.

 

[Kevin T]

Why have a sedan, while you can have a hatchback, station wagon, or a smallish SUV, depending on the flavor/size you needed?

The only sedan shaped car I would buy is a hard top convertible 4-seater. Even that, only as the second car.
Even Tesla 3 has a major downfall, for me, of no propper tail door, like model S.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

This. I’ve had a wagon in the stable for 15 years...2 Subaru Outbacks and 3 Volvo wagons. I usually get bored with cars in 4 years. Drive like sedans with much better utility/space in the back. Plus, wagons aren’t popular in the US because people want giant, impractical SUVS, so you can get a 2-3 yo model for a song.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ollinger]

Plus, wagons aren’t popular in the US because people want giant, impractical SUVS,

It's even less rational than that, as very small SUV-configurations have flooded the market in the past several years, with less space than most wagons. People seem to have decided a SUV is what you're supposed to drive, many (including myself) like the ease of getting in and out of them without bending low, like the slightly higher view, certainly like the AWD here in the northeast, but we saw almost no snow this year, and AWD has moved to more and more sedans, including more affordable ones such as Altima, Camry, the 2021 Optima later this year, and of course the Legacy.

 

[sureshs]

A former patient was an exec in the service division of one of the German brands;

Hitler?

 

[ollinger]

Hitler?

not allowed to say

 

[movdqa]

It's even less rational than that, as very small SUV-configurations have flooded the market in the past several years, with less space than most wagons. People seem to have decided a SUV is what you're supposed to drive, many (including myself) like the ease of getting in and out of them without bending low, like the slightly higher view, certainly like the AWD here in the northeast, but we saw almost no snow this year, and AWD has moved to more and more sedans, including more affordable ones such as Altima, Camry, the 2021 Optima later this year, and of course the Legacy.

The Camry isn't AWD unless they just announced something.

I drove Audi AWDs for 12 years. It's very nice but I switched to FWD in 2000 and have had no problems in the snow. I used to drive a 320i in the snow and, it was more challenging, but you learn how to do it. I don't have any problems bending down but we'll see how that goes in ten years. One other thing that I noticed - a lot of the smaller SUVs had payload capacities less than what sedans have. That's completely counterintuitive but I guess automakers were in a hurry to get their designs out.

 

[ollinger]

The Camry isn't AWD unless they just announced something

announced a month or two ago, widely reported in the automotive press, that an AWD Camry would go into production in March., available in USA this spring (unless medical issues affect their production schedule). Will feature only the 202 hp four cylinder, 8 speed automatic, available in most trim levels. Will add about $1500 if ordered. Has been on their website under "future models"

 

[Gary Duane]

Ford is down to the Mustang as it's only non-SUV/truck offering, GM recently built its last Chevy Impala and will be discontinuing other sedans including some Buicks and Cadillacs, and Chrysler's commitment to the (Dodge) Charger and (Chrysler) 300 is tenuous; dealers in my area don't usually seem to include them on their website new-car inventory lists, treating them as special-order-only items. European and Asian brands seem to still be committed to the sedan, with lots of new or updated model releases pending this year. What happened here? Have we gotten so enormous that we no longer fit in sedans?? Perhaps, as very small SUV-type vehicles are offered by Asian and European makers but generally not by American companies (and the few that may be offered in that size class are often made by their Asian subsidiary). Entire brands (Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Plymouth) have disappeared in the last few decades as well. I owned an Impala once, for a week. A family friend had it as a company car for one of his salesman and offered it to my wife and me. He said it leaked a bit in the wet. We decided to find out how much, so went through a car wash. As we stared at the window seals looking for leaks, water started rushing in through the floor boards until we were ankle-deep. I thanked him and gave the car back.

What in hell is replacing the sedan???

 

[ollinger]

What in hell is replacing the sedan???

I thought the thread was sort of clear and straightforward

 

[ollinger]

I drove Audi AWDs for 12 years. It's very nice but I switched to FWD in 2000 and have had no problems in the snow.

AWD is certainly overrated, especially if your FWD has snow tires. When we had a 35 inch snowstorm in the mid 1990s, I had to head to work at the hospital nonetheless, got into my FWD Volvo with four Blizzaks, and really had no problem going through the snow (until I noticed I was the only car on Interstate 78 and heard on the radio the state had closed all highways). I only got AWD because the house we recently moved out of had a driveway that was impossible to get up in the snow with anything but AWD

 

[chrischris]

Werent we promised that the US auto industry would grow expolisively by dark yellow?

 

[Gary Duane]

I thought the thread was sort of clear and straightforward

Hell, I had to look up sedan. I could not remember which kind of car has 4 doors.

Dunno. I guess everyone else is rich? Those big cars use more fuel and cost way more. We never considered one, although the are certainly convenient for families.

 

[max]

Sedan fan.

 

[ollinger]

Werent we promised that the US auto industry would grow expolisively by dark yellow?

Not sure I recall that, sales down a few percent last year but trucks and SUVs are more profitable per unit. Millenials seem less inclined to buy cars, in part due to rise of services like Uber/Lyft, and hourly car rentals like Zip Car.

 

[max]

And due to income/debt perhaps.

 

[Ronaldo]

AWD is certainly overrated, especially if your FWD has snow tires. When we had a 35 inch snowstorm in the mid 1990s, I had to head to work at the hospital nonetheless, got into my FWD Volvo with four Blizzaks, and really had no problem going through the snow (until I noticed I was the only car on Interstate 78 and heard on the radio the state had closed all highways). I only got AWD because the house we recently moved out of had a driveway that was impossible to get up in the snow with anything but AWD

Had a 28" snow storm BITD. Hospital employees arrived on cross-country skis and snowmobiles.

 

[Ronaldo]

Meet the new sedan,

 

[donquijote]

Sedan got the virus?

 

[Kevin T]

Hell, I had to look up sedan. I could not remember which kind of car has 4 doors.

Dunno. I guess everyone else is rich? Those big cars use more fuel and cost way more. We never considered one, although the are certainly convenient for families.

Most are too cool for vans, which are far roomier and more practical for large families. We have 4 kids and have owned a couple of Toyota Siennas, most recently the Limited AWD model. Much nicer/easier to drive than large SUVs, easier on the pocket book and better gas mileage. Was really close to pulling the trigger on a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid (I just threw up a little in my mouth even considering purchasing a Chrysler ) but figured we'd wait until Covid "washes through" as Drumpf says.

 

[Gary Duane]

Most are too cool for vans, which are far roomier and more practical for large families. We have 4 kids and have owned a couple of Toyota Siennas, most recently the Limited AWD model. Much nicer/easier to drive than large SUVs, easier on the pocket book and better gas mileage. Was really close to pulling the trigger on a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid (I just threw up a little in my mouth even considering purchasing a Chrysler ) but figured we'd wait until Covid "washes through" as Drumpf says.

Covid is currently washing through our lives. Not only are we not going to be buying a new car, we may have to give up one of the ones we have, which is still not paid off.

 

[scotus]

My Tesla Model S is a sedan and proudly American.

 

[movdqa]

announced a month or two ago, widely reported in the automotive press, that an AWD Camry would go into production in March., available in USA this spring (unless medical issues affect their production schedule). Will feature only the 202 hp four cylinder, 8 speed automatic, available in most trim levels. Will add about $1500 if ordered. Has been on their website under "future models"

Thanks, I hadn't heard that. I saw calls for it in the sport version as the front tires could spin on acceleration. I think that AWD would take up cabin and trunk space. I imagine that they might add this for the Avalon as well. It might be easier to do as I think that there are AWD Lexus sedans.

 

[movdqa]

Hell, I had to look up sedan. I could not remember which kind of car has 4 doors.

Dunno. I guess everyone else is rich? Those big cars use more fuel and cost way more. We never considered one, although the are certainly convenient for families.

6, 7, 8, 9 year loans.

 

[movdqa]

Sedan got the virus?

That's the Toyota Corona.

 

[Kevin T]

Covid is currently washing through our lives. Not only are we not going to be buying a new car, we may have to give up one of the ones we have, which is still not paid off.

Sorry, Gary. Hoping it washes through with minimal effect on everyone's health and finances.

 

[ollinger]

Toyota Corona

my first car, a silver Corona

 

[ollinger]

I think that AWD would take up cabin and trunk space. I imagine that they might add this for the Avalon as well. It might be easier to do as I think that there are AWD Lexus sedans.

they DID add it for the Avalon but that won't be available until late 2020. Cabin and trunk space said to be unchanged in the Camry but might hold (and need) less gas as the gas tank was reconfigured in the AWD to make some room for battery

 

[movdqa]

they DID add it for the Avalon but that won't be available until late 2020. Cabin and trunk space said to be unchanged in the Camry but might hold (and need) less gas as the gas tank was reconfigured in the AWD to make some room for battery

I'll have to check it out. I considered a 2019 Avalon but the amount of room over the Camry is pretty small.

 

[movdqa]

It reminds me of the 4-Matic as you can apparently turn off the AWD. I'll have to look at more specs later on.