Good current D2 college players playing USTA 4.5.

Goof

Semi-Pro
Has anyone else run into this? What even is the point for them of playing? It's incredibly frustrating as a middle-aged legit middle-of-the-road 4.5 to spend about 4 hours (match + travel both ways) mid-day on a weekend to get blown off the court in an hour by someone who's probably at least a 5.5. It seems like a waste of time for them too.
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
On a similar note ... I see some teams stacked up their roster with players with A rating (appeal). There's currently no limit to how many A-rated player can be in a roster. Looks like a loophole.
 

Kobble

Hall of Fame
Has anyone else run into this? What even is the point for them of playing? It's incredibly frustrating as a middle-aged legit middle-of-the-road 4.5 to spend about 4 hours (match + travel both ways) mid-day on a weekend to get blown off the court in an hour by someone who's probably at least a 5.5. It seems like a waste of time for them too.
It is sports. Some people have no integrity.
 
Same experience here in Texas as Atatu, I was one of 3 old guys on a team that had 8 division 2 players on it in their mid 20's at 4.5. We didn't win the city lol, couple older teams that were wiser at doubles beat us out in the end. I can see how it would be frustrating, but the format of 3 doubles should give good "adult" teams a chance at beating a college player heavy younger squad.

Oh, but you said current, that's silly, why are they wasting their time if they are still in college? Had one guy do that, was an opponent in the Texas tri-level final, it was bizarre.
 
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2ndServe

Hall of Fame
why even complain. You get to play against better players for such a small nominal fee, against guys who probably wouldn't give you the time of day usually to hit. And as someone said dubs is great equalizer to youth and power. I'm part of the old group
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Current college players even playing 4.0 in some areas. I mean, I’m not a hater when it comes to sandbagging, but seeing a current college player out there playing an old guy with a knee brace who is junk balling him is something else. Gotta make states however you can I guess.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Has anyone else run into this? What even is the point for them of playing? It's incredibly frustrating as a middle-aged legit middle-of-the-road 4.5 to spend about 4 hours (match + travel both ways) mid-day on a weekend to get blown off the court in an hour by someone who's probably at least a 5.5. It seems like a waste of time for them too.
All that said, some D2 schools are not that good and 4.5 may be appropriate. Hard to say.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
I signed up for a 4.5 local tournament, looking forward to playing up against some 4.5s and get some good experience. After that i found out there were a couple 5.0+ in that tournament. They all play single for a nearby D3 school. At one point, its not fun to play up. o_Oo_Oo_O
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I signed up for a 4.5 local tournament, looking forward to playing up against some 4.5s and get some good experience. After that i found out there were a couple 5.0+ in that tournament. They all play single for a nearby D3 school. At one point, its not fun to play up. o_Oo_Oo_O
Wait until you see who plays 5.0+...

J
 
Has anyone else run into this? What even is the point for them of playing? It's incredibly frustrating as a middle-aged legit middle-of-the-road 4.5 to spend about 4 hours (match + travel both ways) mid-day on a weekend to get blown off the court in an hour by someone who's probably at least a 5.5. It seems like a waste of time for them too.
I welcome the chance to play someone that much better than I; where else would I get this opportunity?
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Keep in mind that 5.0 let's you have some 5.5 players on the roster too.
Right but if you can keep your 5.5s rated 5.0 then you can have some true hustlas on the team with 5.5 ratings. Tell me that you think my buddy who you played at nationals was a 5.0.

J
 
That someone was wrong.

J
I don't think I am wrong, because I was on a team stocked full of mid 20's pretty much fresh out of division 2 tennis and even though if we got to play 8 singles matches they would easily have beaten every team every week 8-0, the doubles matches didn't go that way and we finished 3rd at the 4.5 level. There is a nuance to doubles that can close the gap in skill, but singles really doesn't offer that. Maybe my experience was a fluke, but I really think there was enough of a sample size to convince me 3 lines of doubles gives some different skill sets a better chance at beating players that would destroy the same players if matched up in singles only matches.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
I don't think I am wrong, because I was on a team stocked full of mid 20's pretty much fresh out of division 2 tennis and even though if we got to play 8 singles matches they would easily have beaten every team every week 8-0, the doubles matches didn't go that way and we finished 3rd at the 4.5 level. There is a nuance to doubles that can close the gap in skill, but singles really doesn't offer that. Maybe my experience was a fluke, but I really think there was enough of a sample size to convince me 3 lines of doubles gives some different skill sets a better chance at beating players that would destroy the same players if matched up in singles only matches.
Well absolutely. Same is true at ATP level.
 

winchestervatennis

Hall of Fame
Well absolutely. Same is true at ATP level.
But aren’t those guys all 7.0s? OP suggested players in question should be 5.5 so they’re playing two levels down. I believe I’d put my money on 5.5 singles specialist paired with even a low 4.5 vs two upper level 4.5 doubles specialists.

And i could be wrong about this, but doesnt D2 play a format where each doubles court is a point vs only a point for majority of doubles like D1 plays? If so, you’d think the D2 5.5 would probably know his way around the doubles court fairly well.
 

Goof

Semi-Pro
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age! :)
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age! :)
Wait another few years and when you can face players who are 1/3 your age ... it is even better.
 

Vox Rationis

Semi-Pro
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.

Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record :laughing:. This will be fun.
 
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J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age! :)
36!!!

You're not old, you are out of shape.

J
 

danfowl

New User
It is the USTA's fault for all this... having, incrementally over many years, reduced competitive Amateur tennis to these endless amounts of different, micro age/skill levels where the culture has evolved into.. god-forbid anyone play anyone else that might be a 0.5 Level better or worse.
 

Goof

Semi-Pro
36!!!

You're not old, you are out of shape.

J
I am, emphatically, not out of shape (I'm actually in far better shape now than I was at 18). The 18 year old was just a lot better at tennis than me, and when I learned after the match that he was 18, the thought of that made me feel old, psychologically.
 
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.

Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record :laughing:. This will be fun.
If you had to pick a time to play like Federer, this is it!

Good luck!
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.

Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record :laughing:. This will be fun.
What is UTR supposed to be at 4.5? Men's obviously
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
I mean in Texas we have recently graduated D1 players playing 4.5 so....
Why is that ? is it cause there just isn't any leagues or teams above 4.5 ? You would think they should at least play 5.0 division. True, that there isn't as many teams in 5.0 division but there are enough players and teams get on if you searched
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Yes, the lowest 4.5 is utr6.0+

Probably doubles rating and some weak 4.5s moving down or so.

I think ur average legit 4.5 is around UTR8~

4.0 chart also says from 4.5utr to 7.5utr, yet 4.5 starts at 6.0utr.

Its a bit odd.
 

wings56

Hall of Fame
Yes, the lowest 4.5 is utr6.0+

Probably doubles rating and some weak 4.5s moving down or so.

I think ur average legit 4.5 is around UTR8~

4.0 chart also says from 4.5utr to 7.5utr, yet 4.5 starts at 6.0utr.

Its a bit odd.
Thanks for the info
 

Vox Rationis

Semi-Pro
What is UTR supposed to be at 4.5? Men's obviously
There isn't much of a consensus on that. UTR is kind of all over the place within NTRP rating levels. We had a thread about that with a lot of differing opinions on what the range is. https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/is-this-utr-to-ntrp-conversion-chart-accurate.622306/

The official UTR conversion chart says 4.5 men is 6.0-8.5 but I'd push that up to 6.0-9.5. That should cover 90% including your good but still appropriately rated college players.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
There isn't much of a consensus on that. UTR is kind of all over the place within NTRP rating levels. We had a thread about that with a lot of differing opinions on what the range is. https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/is-this-utr-to-ntrp-conversion-chart-accurate.622306/

The official UTR conversion chart says 4.5 men is 6.0-8.5 but I'd push that up to 6.0-9.5. That should cover 90% including your good but still appropriately rated college players.
Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.

Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.

If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.

J
 
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