Good videos

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I recall that. I will dig that up and take a look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cool ... pick any full swing Fed FH video, any angle ... that works easiest with your video master skills. I figure it must be doable, since they took the racquet out of the video in that one Fed video. I just want to visualize the torso/shoulder rotation without the arm and racquet, and see what the shoulder rotation "pace" look like.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Craig says you should try to force your opponent to make an error as most points in tennis end with a forced error!! Hang on a sec, what??

My 4.5 tournament singles would back up some of what Craig said, but not the "shot tolerance" part. Basically ... if I boiled down who was winning it would be 1) players who could play a 2+ hour match in the heat 2) made opponents hit balls on the move (some hit enough topspin to say out of the strikezone, but primarily it was moving players left and right, short, and have to hit passing shots not 100% set) 3) excellent shot tolerance ... need not apply if you could not hit 10 balls back over ... there were no 4.5 rec Isner's winning tournaments, most server were returned.

The flip side of forcing your opponent in an error is shot tolerance avoiding the error playing against a lot of different players, and a lot of different attempts/style of forcing an error. One player forced the error by coming to the net and putting opponent into a passing shot requirement. Shot tolerance (number of hits) did not matter as much against the s&v volley player, but countering the s&v server games with passing shot or lob did. But that s&v player also had to return, and even if a constant c&c player ... long shot tolerance definitely mattered (assuming here obviously both players not s&v.

The baseliner "forced" by 1) moving opponent 2) shot tolerance 3) having a good passing shot when required. We did not have Isner servers, or Wawrinka 1st strike ... so by later rounds plan on shot tolerance. We had big servers (say not quite @J011yroger pace), but none of them hit enough non-returnables to control the match.

I just doubt ATP stats line up with rec stats ... certainly did not in my experience. I also think s&v matches are a completely different animal than baseliner duels ... it's like you need two separate stats. I would not be surprised if the average total hits in the s&v serving games was something like 3-5, and for top baseliner duels 5-10.
 

AlexSV

Rookie
I found a couple videos which show how he puts some of his teachings into practice.

Generally, O'Shannessy divides the court into four horizontal sections and suggests you establish depth to the backhand before looking for power or direction. The deep ball to the backhand allows you to take away time from the opponent and control the point.

When returning a serve, he advocates a deep return up the middle to establish a neutral rally. His stats support this as the best play. Then he advises you look to control the point by establishing depth.

In his longer videos he was big on coming to the net, hitting forehands and a high first serve percentage.


 

FiReFTW

Legend
Look how explosively he uses his legs to power those short loop swings.
The problem with most rec players is, they think they get so low and use so much explosive power as this vid, when they barely do anything at all with legs.
Until they see on video its hard to really feel it, and you think ur going so low when ur barely bending.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
I'm loving the overall technique there. Talk about compact, and yes, explosive.
I’d say, in typical rec (and mostly for pros also) rhythm one has much more time to set up. Such rushed prep might (if not well compensated with other training) lead to late prep habits. Guy obviously has some room for more coiling if he’s not rushed that much.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
I’d say, in typical rec (and mostly for pros also) rhythm one has much more time to set up. Such rushed prep might (if not well compensated with other training) lead to late prep habits. Guy obviously has some room for more coiling if he’s not rushed that much.

Every technique has inherent issues that can come up. Look at the contrast to the last player, with the large takeback and wide swing path. I think the important thing in the video is, there are many ways to get to the contact point, it is just finding your one true stroke that you can do consistently and timed well in a majority of cirrcumstances. (insert Bagger Vance video here -
)
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Every technique has inherent issues that can come up. Look at the contrast to the last player, with the large takeback and wide swing path. I think the important thing in the video is, there are many ways to get to the contact point, it is just finding your one true stroke that you can do consistently and timed well in a majority of cirrcumstances. (insert Bagger Vance video here -
)
I’d like to see the first guy in BL to BL rally. I think his compact loop is perfectly ok, and his rapid action is good for, let’s say, aggressive return of serve. If he can coil more (not swing his arm back with bigger loop!) for full shots, he’s a monster. Look at Rafa: tiny arm loop, yet big torso turn.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I have a question about the slow motion swing at :20
Is there a mechanical flaw in his footwork?

He plants open stance at :20
All weight is on outside/right leg

At 0:21-0:23, his left leg steps forward, and his scissors his legs.

With his left leg moving forward, is he preventing his hips from rotating?
The left leg stepping forward is in the opposite direction of the CCW rotation of the swing.

If you look at most ATP open stance FH's, they do not step forward with the left leg, rather they rotate around and the right leg comes around with the left leg staying back.

Which is correct?
Huh? He loads and pushes from the right legs, he coils and uncoils completely, dont know what ur watching.
Left leg is just for balance.

Federer pretty much does this on every single inside out forehand, and various other pros also do it on alot of forehands specially when really going for it.

 

ChaelAZ

Legend
With his left leg moving forward, is he preventing his hips from rotating?
The left leg stepping forward is in the opposite direction of the CCW rotation of the swing.

If you look at most ATP open stance FH's, they do not step forward with the left leg, rather they rotate around and the right leg comes around with the left leg staying back.

Which is correct?
Just looking again. For me, I think given the timing and the idea that the drill is set as a scenario to reduce the amount of reaction time, the way he plants and hits is good. The move of the left leg across with the right back kick is to maintain balance. He might be sacrificing rotation, but I think in this kind of pressure situation, even at the pro level, the balance and recovery ability is more important than a bit of the rotation, as long as his RHS is good and he is still making that forward contact.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
This must just be a limitation of open stance.
In closed stance, the left leg would be planted, and the right leg would swing around.
There’s no “open stance limitation” on that shot, he moved laterally and converted into rotation having no extra time to set his feet. Even though he was forced to load and uncoil while moving sideways he did great job and rotated balanced and landed moving straight into court.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Look at the first 2 FHs in this video.

At 0:13 he lifts his left leg forward.

At 0:34, his left leg is planted. Right leg swings around (this might be a light warm-up)
But, still the amount of hip rotation is totally different.

Which one is correct?

It's only in follow-through where hips rotation continues for the latter shot. By contact it's roughly the same. Now can you estimate any deifference in speed of hip rotation, torso rotation, arm swing and RH?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It's only in follow-through where hips rotation continues for the latter shot. By contact it's roughly the same. Now can you estimate any deifference in speed of hip rotation, torso rotation, arm swing and RH?
This is all meaningless, the point is to coil and uncoil to release the energy, the leg does what the leg does for balance and depending on the incoming shots and positions in order to make adjustments and get into the best possible balance and position to hit a quality shot, but some people try to make a science of it.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
This is all meaningless, the point is to coil and uncoil to release the energy, the leg does what the leg does for balance and depending on the incoming shots and positions in order to make adjustments and get into the best possible balance and position to hit a quality shot, but some people try to make a science of it.
You sure about that?

J
 

FiReFTW

Legend
You sure about that?

J
I don't know what part specificaly you mean, but the point im trying to make is that if your hitting a forehand from your right leg and you coil and uncoil from it, the left leg which is airborne is to provide balance and prevent overrotating and all that, it doesn't have a direct effect on the shot itself, like the inside out forehand from federer, or that deep forehand from federer where his left leg rotates backwards.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
This is all meaningless, the point is to coil and uncoil to release the energy, the leg does what the leg does for balance and depending on the incoming shots and positions in order to make adjustments and get into the best possible balance and position to hit a quality shot, but some people try to make a science of it.
It’s pretty common when people get stuck with one footwork pattern which doesn’t fit all situations and cannot figure out how to make legs do what they should. So it’s useful to understand those patterns and drill particular pivot/step every now and then to become familiar. Then you can “naturally” apply proper pushes and swings and pivots in particular situations.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It’s pretty common when people get stuck with one footwork pattern which doesn’t fit all situations and cannot figure out how to make legs do what they should. So it’s useful to understand those patterns and drill particular pivot/step every now and then to become familiar. Then you can “naturally” apply proper pushes and swings and pivots in particular situations.
Yes I agree, I was just arguing against the point of "which is right" since theres no right or wrong, it depends on the situation what is best suited for that sitiuation, thats why good players like pros have different footwork patterns and different types of mechanics particularly on the off leg thats airborne, but also on the coiling leg and different stances in different situations.

The left leg airborn and pivoting back in the air from Fed is mostly used on deep shots or when ur even moving back slightly and step and uncoil from right leg, to allow rotation and power from such a position.

The left leg infront on the inside out forehand from Fed is used mostly to prevent overrotation and to remain balanced when airborne.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
I don't know what part specificaly you mean, but the point im trying to make is that if your hitting a forehand from your right leg and you coil and uncoil from it, the left leg which is airborne is to provide balance and prevent overrotating and all that, it doesn't have a direct effect on the shot itself, like the inside out forehand from federer, or that deep forehand from federer where his left leg rotates backwards.
This is not correct. If you push just from your right foot, your left foot doesn’t get airborne, but opposite, you step on it. One foot pivot like Fed is achieved with sequential push from right leg and left leg, where the latter pushes left side of pelvis back enhancing rotation.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
This is not correct. If you push just from your right foot, your left foot doesn’t get airborne, but opposite, you step on it. One foot pivot like Fed is achieved with sequential push from right leg and left leg, where the latter pushes left side of pelvis back enhancing rotation.
On the forehand you coil your right side if your a righty, and push off your right leg, now there might also be a push from the left leg or a transfer to the left leg, but the primary drive comes from the right foot, I was talking specifically when the left foot is airborne, since thats what his question was, why the airborn foot sometimes goes back, or around, or sometimes forward etc etc... and my answer was because it depends on the situation and its used as a tool for balance, rotation or preventing of rotation.. depending on many things.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know what part specificaly you mean, but the point im trying to make is that if your hitting a forehand from your right leg and you coil and uncoil from it, the left leg which is airborne is to provide balance and prevent overrotating and all that, it doesn't have a direct effect on the shot itself, like the inside out forehand from federer, or that deep forehand from federer where his left leg rotates backwards.
It seemed like at first you were saying it doesn't matter then later saying there are different patterns that are used in different situations to different effect, which is kind of like saying it does matter.

J
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It seemed like at first you were saying it doesn't matter then later saying there are different patterns that are used in different situations to different effect, which is kind of like saying it does matter.

J
Yes but he specifically showed 2 off leg patterns and asked which one is correct, my point was that none is correct or incorrect, it depends on the situation, otherwise everyone would be having the exact same leg movements on every single forehand.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Is she the smartest tennis player ever?

Her court IQ and point construction are off the chart. I don't think we have seen a player with "lesser" technique win so often over big names. Good eye-opener for those who continue to look to power and hitting players off the court.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Great practice. Got to watch Dimi live again when I was in Vegas a few weeks back. Love both these guys.


Cool little practice fun at 1:33ish :) Also get to see both pull out the 2HBHs. lol

 

Curious

Legend
At the highest level? Don't hang a 6 foot thread for these two.

Immediate shoulder turn as soon as the opponent hits the ball is the highlight again. Why do rec players take their time and just watch the ball instead, until it bounces on their side?!

Imagine there’s a rod extending all the way between the rackets of both players. When one swings the racket forward it pushes the other’s racket backwards. This is the only weird way I can describe how simultaneous and effective it is.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Great hitting but Fed and Domi.
Especially, check out the slice on the serve warm up of Dom at around 9:12. CRAZY curves.

For alot of people it might not seem impressive, until they see themselves on video, only then does it become extremely impressive.
 

GeoffHYL

Rookie
Some great hitting.

Good hitting, but depth control was iffy. Lots of shots hitting at the service line, and a fair number of shots hitting long for just rallying. Not that I would do any better, but considering the quality of the strokes, they should be getting most of their shots landing at least 6 feet past the service line, but less than 3 feet from the baseline.
 
Top