Good videos

[FiReFTW]

Like all good forehands, its an incredibly simple stroke.

Its just a simple transfer of energy from the ground up, legs push against the ground creating the start of the energy chain which then rotates the hips forward which then rotate the shoulders forward which then rotates the arm around and finaly the racquet catches up and gets "thrown" into the ball with all the force of that whole body chain behind it.

As you can see in the pictures how prestretched the parts of the chain are, hips are turned around but shoulder is turned around even more creating a tension and stretch, when the energy goes up to the hips and they fire forward the energy pulls the stretched shoulders forward, and also how hips and shoulders get to the end of the movement when they reach parallel of the baseline, and then all the momentum goes into the arm that swings around or is almost thrown forward same as the racquet is when the arm starts to slow or stop such as hips and shoulders do before (note the arm itself doesn't slow down but once it starts going past parallel it starts traveling inside or towards the left more and more, so its forward speed slows down since it starts traveling more and more sideways, so the forward speed starts slowing down as the hips and shoulders before when the arm is thrown forward, so the racquet is then "thrown" forward.

 

[Curious]

Like all good forehands, its an incredibly simple stroke.

Its just a simple transfer of energy from the ground up, legs push against the ground creating the start of the energy chain which then rotates the hips forward which then rotate the shoulders forward which then rotates the arm around and finaly the racquet catches up and gets "thrown" into the ball with all the force of that whole body chain behind it.

As you can see in the pictures how prestretched the parts of the chain are, hips are turned around but shoulder is turned around even more creating a tension and stretch, when the energy goes up to the hips and they fire forward the energy pulls the stretched shoulders forward, and also how hips and shoulders get to the end of the movement when they reach parallel of the baseline, and then all the momentum goes into the arm that swings around or is almost thrown forward same as the racquet is when the arm starts to slow or stop such as hips and shoulders do before (note the arm itself doesn't slow down but once it starts going past parallel it starts traveling inside or towards the left more and more, so its forward speed slows down since it starts traveling more and more sideways, so the forward speed starts slowing down as the hips and shoulders before when the arm is thrown forward, so the racquet is then "thrown" forward.

Nicely described. My point was to simplify it further by doing only the shoulder bit paying zero attention to the others. I think that's what Roger does at the very beginning of the video, the first few forehands. He seems to 'lazily' use his shoulder thrust/torso uncoil only. I tried this, it's a very nice feeling forehand. Everyone should try.

 

[FiReFTW]

I think its a great way to warm up and get a feel of the kinetic chain, ive been warming up like this aswell and it helps a ton.

Its worth to note tho @Curious , in almost every shot in this video (bar maybe 2 or 3 where he really clearly obviously is just starting and clearly only warming up his shoulders and body and so) roger is using the full kinetic chain, from legs all the way up to the upper body and then arm and racquet.
But he is starting very casual and maybe 30-40% effort in his swings, so the movements are so SLIGHT and ambigious that they are hard to pick up so for most people just looking it would seem like hes only using his upper body and not using his lower body at all, but its not the case, he is still pushing with his leg and using his lower body to start the swing, but its very very slight, since he is hitting with very little effort and not wanting to hit too hard, and then casualy he builds up the pace more and more till he gets to 100%.
I really advise you and anyone to start warming up like this, it really gets u in rhytm and timing and gets u very in tune to using ur kinetic chain very easily and without much effort.

Here are some slight movements that are hard to pick up, 1st pic is a bit more obvious, 2nd a bit less obvious:

Here you can clearly see some leg extension and some hip rotation, its a bit further into the video, so he has started to use a bit more of lower body already.

And here its much less obvious but its there, as you can see the leg does extend ever so slightly as do the hips rotate ever so slightly, so it is still involved slightly, but very very minimal, but it helps a ton in producing effortless shots, you can try it and you will see.

Try to hit few shadow swings with racquet, and:

1.Just stand on ur feet and don't do anything, completely cut them off, just stand and ignore them completely, keep standing still, and swing from ur upper body and shoulder, having a loose arm and racquet, you will see the arm and racquet all feel quite loose and all, just like they should.

2.Stand on ur feet again but really focus on having the weight on ur back foot, so its pushing into the ground (but have ur legs quite extended only slight bend like roger here) and again take the racquet back and drop it and then slightly push off the ground to start ur swing and then do the same with ur upper torso and shoulder, but just build it up from that leg push, you will note a similar loose and relaxed swing as before (if ur arm is loose) but you should feel more racquet speed with the same swing and effort.

 

[Curious]

I think its a great way to warm up and get a feel of the kinetic chain, ive been warming up like this aswell and it helps a ton.

Its worth to note tho @Curious , in almost every shot in this video (bar maybe 2 or 3 where he really clearly obviously is just starting and clearly only warming up his shoulders and body and so) roger is using the full kinetic chain, from legs all the way up to the upper body and then arm and racquet.
But he is starting very casual and maybe 30-40% effort in his swings, so the movements are so SLIGHT and ambigious that they are hard to pick up so for most people just looking it would seem like hes only using his upper body and not using his lower body at all, but its not the case, he is still pushing with his leg and using his lower body to start the swing, but its very very slight, since he is hitting with very little effort and not wanting to hit too hard, and then casualy he builds up the pace more and more till he gets to 100%.
I really advise you and anyone to start warming up like this, it really gets u in rhytm and timing and gets u very in tune to using ur kinetic chain very easily and without much effort.

Here are some slight movements that are hard to pick up, 1st pic is a bit more obvious, 2nd a bit less obvious:

Here you can clearly see some leg extension and some hip rotation, its a bit further into the video, so he has started to use a bit more of lower body already.

And here its much less obvious but its there, as you can see the leg does extend ever so slightly as do the hips rotate ever so slightly, so it is still involved slightly, but very very minimal, but it helps a ton in producing effortless shots, you can try it and you will see.

Try to hit few shadow swings with racquet, and:

1.Just stand on ur feet and don't do anything, completely cut them off, just stand and ignore them completely, keep standing still, and swing from ur upper body and shoulder, having a loose arm and racquet, you will see the arm and racquet all feel quite loose and all, just like they should.

2.Stand on ur feet again but really focus on having the weight on ur back foot, so its pushing into the ground (but have ur legs quite extended only slight bend like roger here) and again take the racquet back and drop it and then slightly push off the ground to start ur swing and then do the same with ur upper torso and shoulder, but just build it up from that leg push, you will note a similar loose and relaxed swing as before (if ur arm is loose) but you should feel more racquet speed with the same swing and effort.

I agree but I still feel like it's mostly the upper body uncoiling that drives the shot. Could the hips knees be following passively( because they have to follow through if you are loose enough, don't they?), hence the leg straightening hip turning you see is misleading?

 

[FiReFTW]

I agree but I still feel like it's mostly the upper body uncoiling that drives the shot. Could the hips knees be following passively( because they have to follow through if you are loose enough, don't they?), hence the leg straightening hip turning you see is misleading?

That is possible on this 2nd picture, and it does happen here and there, but on most of the shots you do clearly see that the shot is hit from the legs up, do you see it?

 

[Curious]

That is possible on this 2nd picture, and it does happen here and there, but on most of the shots you do clearly see that the shot is hit from the legs up, do you see it?

I see it but wondering how much of it is real pushing with hips and legs and how much is just riding along with the torso uncoiling. When I do it only by uncoiling the torso I notice my hips turn, leg straighten but maybe passively, sort of.

 

[FiReFTW]

I see it but wondering how much of it is real pushing with hips and legs and how much is just riding along with the torso uncoiling. When I do it only by uncoiling the torso I notice my hips turn, leg straighten but maybe passively, sort of.

Well depends on the shot I would guess, sometimes if you want to effortlesly swing and to warm up theres not really much of a need for it, but in a match ud want to use legs as much as you can.

 

[Curious]

Speaking of torso uncoiling, what sort of workout can one do at home to increase strength on that?

 

[FiReFTW]

Core.

 

[Curious]

Core.

Yeah but not every core muscle. It's gotta be some main muscle/muscle groups like abdominal obliques. I'm interested in the tortional strength, not flexion or extension although they are not irrelevant.

 

[Curious]

You either have it or you don't!

 

[Curious]

Isn't Edberg's backhand racket take back very simple and beautiful? Nothing flashy or complicated. I would love to be able to copy that.

 

[StringSnapper]

Isn't Edberg's backhand racket take back very simple and beautiful? Nothing flashy or complicated. I would love to be able to copy that.

Quick unit turn, stays balanced through the shot, watches the ball. Nothing fancy just solid hitting.

Its funny how we try to get so fancy with our shots. The older generation of flat hitters accomplished so much with so little

 

[Jens Gabler]

I recommend Oscar Wegner´s tennis videos.
In my opinion the best way to learn tennis

 

[Curious]

I recommend Oscar Wegner´s tennis videos.
In my opinion the best way to learn tennis

You must be joking or you're new here.

 

[Curious]

Nice HD video of Edberg.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I liked this one.
Great to see Futures players making so many errors.

 

[StringSnapper]

I liked this one.
Great to see Futures players making so many errors.

Observe the forehand at 13:06

The almost half volley like rushed return forehand push winner on the baseline from a low stance just guiding it back into the court.

Thats a ball you cant really swing at. Its a bit like a serve return. Thats the ball ive been working on with the help of the wall. The difference between this shot and a ball that sits up for you to hit is night and day.

The sitter requires a lot of labour, a lot of love. You gotta unit turn, get into position, wait for what seems an eternity and then unleash the hips and forehand lag to topspin rip the crap outta that ball. I think big shots to big targets is key here. Think rafa on clay.

The 13:06 ball is like a fed bh block skidder from a grass court. Both shots need quick unit turn, planting front foot for balance, and watching the bottom of the ball. One requires a huge uncoil, the other requires almost maintaing the coil. Sinking lower into the ground and unleashing very little hip/torso (which is harder to do the lower into the ground you are anyway). To unload on thst ball would be a "3.5 spazz"

Very important concept imo. Shot selection: context is king.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

The player would chuckle at your analysis.
The ball landed at his feet, and he basically short hopped it.
I don't think you can think about a shot like that, it's just intuition ball sense you can do from years of blocking back serves that are very long and land at your feet

 

[StringSnapper]

The player would chuckle at your analysis.
The ball landed at his feet, and he basically short hopped it.
I don't think you can think about a shot like that, it's just intuition ball sense you can do from years of blocking back serves that are very long and land at your feet

What do you mean "short hopped it"?

Ive gone from missing probably almost 100% of these balls (not knowing what to do, falling backwards, shanking etc) to practicing them against a wall and now missing probably 5% or less. My description above i think are the required ingredients to return such a ball. Yeah the guy in the video may have just reflexively hit it, but he had the necessary ingredients. You dont need to describe in words how to play tennis to play tennis (or a particular shot). You just have to know how to play tennis. The description is optional and comes after knowing how to play.

I agree it comes down to reflex and muscle memory especially in a match against a fast shot, the wall can help train for it, ingrain certain ques into your unconscious. I mean thats what tennis is isnt it?. My description above came as a revelation AFTER the practice. I wasnt even trying to learn that going in, but when i tried to get ultra consistent that was a problem i was presented with. So yes, its intuitional ball sense you have to feel first. I'm just trying to put a name to it after the fact.

Its funny hitting with the wall; i now see where a lot of the coaching cues come from. Easier to understand through practice (or intuition/feel) then describe in words later than it is to try and understand through words first and then try to feel those words.

Imo most rec players would benefit standing 12m away from a wall, hit to a target on the wall, really crank their best hardest (but controlled and still 'in') shots at it,only let it bounce once and try to do 30 in a row. Makes you master your power. Then try to do the same but less power and let it bounce twice, the 2nd bounce hopefully just before you hit it so you can practice the above mentioned low-push-skidder. You'll see what i mean when you do it. If you can hit 30 powerful balls in a row in a match and return low skidders 90%+ of the time, you're not going to stay a 3.5 for long.

 

[sureshs]

Speaking of videos, I cannot avoid mentioning this video put together by a TT poster and blessed today by Federer himself:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...of-work-into-this-got-rogers-blessing.606643/

 

[NuBas]

This lady I never heard of Tatjana Maria has a great one handed backhand @ 0:36 seconds

 

[Curious]

Here is a new video from the great junior player Andrei.

 

[FiReFTW]

Hes pretty good.
What do you reckon @Curious , think he could snatch a game or two off you in best of 3?

 

[Curious]

Hes pretty good.
What do you reckon @Curious , think he could snatch a game or two off you in best of 3?

I could probably snatch a few points! By the way I had a look at his tournament history in the last 12 months (USTA) and it doesn't look that bright. Could he be one of those players whose strokes, movement look pretty but results are another story?

 

[FiReFTW]

Got a link to his history?

 

[Curious]

Federer's hitting partner was 20 minutes late today! And the GOAT can still enjoy himself though in a simple way.

 

[StringSnapper]

I could probably snatch a few points! By the way I had a look at his tournament history in the last 12 months (USTA) and it doesn't look that bright. Could he be one of those players whose strokes, movement look pretty but results are another story?

His backhand seems to be his weakness.. a lot of the points in that video he couldn't get it deep. Maybe he should consider switching to a 2 hander? Or using the slice more

 

[Curious]

Del

 

[Curious]

Great pleasure to watch. Is this pro level tennis?

 

[Curious]

 

[StringSnapper]

Great pleasure to watch. Is this pro level tennis?

Great video thanks for sharing.

Wow, two epic baseliners. The guy in white is so solid in defense i cant believe some of those returns, and how balanced he is for the next shot. You gotta do a lot to win a point in this match! Beautiful tennis


Also of note: the guy in white has a real simple serve motion

 

[ChaelAZ]

 

[Curious]

 

[Deleted member 54265]

What level is this ? Trying to understand the USTA rating. Thanks

 

[ChaelAZ]

What level is this ? Trying to understand the USTA rating. Thanks

He is a too NJCAA D1 player for Copiah-Lincoln community college. He has played ITF and has an ATP profile. He would be at least a comparable 5.5 player.


Probably posting from the court between sets.

 

[skuludo]

Observe the forehand at 13:06

The almost half volley like rushed return forehand push winner on the baseline from a low stance just guiding it back into the court.

Thats a ball you cant really swing at. Its a bit like a serve return. Thats the ball ive been working on with the help of the wall. The difference between this shot and a ball that sits up for you to hit is night and day.

The sitter requires a lot of labour, a lot of love. You gotta unit turn, get into position, wait for what seems an eternity and then unleash the hips and forehand lag to topspin rip the crap outta that ball. I think big shots to big targets is key here. Think rafa on clay.

The 13:06 ball is like a fed bh block skidder from a grass court. Both shots need quick unit turn, planting front foot for balance, and watching the bottom of the ball. One requires a huge uncoil, the other requires almost maintaing the coil. Sinking lower into the ground and unleashing very little hip/torso (which is harder to do the lower into the ground you are anyway). To unload on thst ball would be a "3.5 spazz"

Very important concept imo. Shot selection: context is king.

The shot at 13:06 is a two foot pivot. It is used for fast deep balls flying towards you. The technique is demonstrated at 2:20 in the video below.

 

[moonballs]

I wonder if tennis will ever be played at this crazy good level in the future say in 50 or 100 years.

Maybe in a different planet, with higher gravity and thinner air.

 

[Shroud]

Shees and people think I hit with a board

 

[MarinaHighTennis]

White shirt must have been a high level player that stopped playing for a while. Impressive that shirtless got a couple games.

nope hes a junior in college playing club for UCLA. He plays mixed doubles for their team. Hes actually rated 4.5 and we're on the same WTT and USTA teams. Hes a monster when he tries but most of the time he'll just throw lots of dropshots and lobs

 

[MarinaHighTennis]

White shirt must have been a high level player that stopped playing for a while. Impressive that shirtless got a couple games.

nope hes a junior in college playing club for UCLA. He plays mixed doubles for their team. Hes actually rated 4.5 and we're on the same WTT and USTA teams. Hes a monster when he tries but most of the time he'll just throw lots of dropshots and lobs. Also white (aaron) was fooling around this set too.

 

[Harry_Wild]

A top teaching pro shows shortcuts tennis drills look like to help their students to become future RFers type player! Only for serious tennis players who want to improve their game fast. Enjoy!

 

[ChaelAZ]

Check out the point at around 24:10. lol. But overall, while the ground game wasn't the grueling long rallies, it is more like matches I play with shorter points and a lot of serve jocky'ing.

 

[ChaelAZ]

An interesting match. Both decent movers and decent strokes, but what struck me is how much air they put under a lot of their shots, giving each other so much time to get to balls. Both had so many opportunities to finish points, but end up with fluffy lob and high shots. good stuff overall though.

 

[FiReFTW]

An interesting match. Both decent movers and decent strokes, but what struck me is how much air they put under a lot of their shots, giving each other so much time to get to balls. Both had so many opportunities to finish points, but end up with fluffy lob and high shots. good stuff overall though.

Is it the video or is it just me or are these two extremely fast, it seems to me they move around really fast.

 

[Kevo]

Becker v Bahrami 1988

I like to call this one the BLABB (BLatent Attack By Bahrami). Becker hesitates when he sees where Bahrami is standing. This cost him the point.

I love it when guys pull stuff like that on returns. When I was playing doubles tournaments quite a few years ago, I regularly practiced serves with those short cone targets. My doubles partner would call whatever serve he wanted and I'd hit it better than 80% of the time I would say. I think my percentage went up to 90+ when guys would stand close or hug the T or the line out wide.

One incident that stands out clearly was a guy who was getting frustrated with my partner gobbling up all the weak returns so he stood right about where Bahrami is in the clip. Maybe even a little closer. My partner called for the body serve and I nailed it about 115mph and caught the guy right in the middle of his chest. The ball went about 30ft in the air right off his chest because he just couldn't get out of the way.

That was the last time he tried any of those shenanigans on my serve.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Is it the video or is it just me or are these two extremely fast, it seems to me they move around really fast.

Right? I was impressed with how well both move, but then when they get there they are missing out on put-away opportunities I think. But yeah, check at 3:40...they look to be working hard. Just harder than I believe they need to.

Maybe it is just the way the ball travels in the air indoors? Looks super slow and floaty to me. ???

 

[Curious]

 

[NuBas]

Real tennis

 

[Curious]

Nice camera angle