Goran Ivanesevic: "More impressed by Nadal than Federer".

Maybe. But there seems to be a pattern emerging. More "legends" of the game (of which I'd consider Ivanisevic to be, even if he's on the low end of the scale) seem to be skipping to Nadal's side of the fence. Agassi, Martina Navratilova.
Martina Navratilova? LOL - you forgot to add McEnroe to that list of insincere bandwagon-junkies who know nothing other than "whoring in hindsight".

Name one player who said something similar BEFORE Nadal clinched the career slam, like for example Fed who predicted way back in 2005 that Nadal would be where he is now. In the long run it is those players like Roger who will acquire infinitely more credibility than flimsy and lightweight flip-floppers like Navratilova & Mac
.
 
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Laver > Ivanisevic

16 > 9

Gwen Steffani > Shakira

sorry, couldn't resist :) Let the **** war begin!

1st one, okay, obvious
2nd one, duh, simple math
3rd....WAIT WHAT, are we talking music or looks? But I think I prefer Shakira in both anyways :P, but I don't really listen to either of their music.
 
But I think I prefer Shakira in both anyways :P, but I don't really listen to either of their music.
hehe same here.I do prefer Shakira but overall I'm not a fan of either.
Gwen has a baby-voice.God knows what Roger likes about her style.
Gavin is atleast tolerable.
 
Maybe Rafa's game is more appealing to most people, but also don't forget a lot of these legends may not like Federer's self-obsessiveness. There is no doubt these legends would find Rafa's personality more appealing.
 
Yes of course, we all know that none of these legends had huge egos and were therefore not self-obsessed whatsoever.
 
How can one's game have "more character" than the other?

I am amazed to see that the big serving croat digs Rafa. I mean I can see a guy like Muster/Kafelnikov digging Rafa but Goran? Next thing you know we'll be seeing Becker or Sampras say they like Nadal's game more than Fed's.

But I kinda agree with the bit about legends being driven by their ego's. Sampras won't come out and say it but he was glad that Nadal protected his record against Fed as long as he did. Ditto for Borg with consecutive WB wins. Most of these legends have huge ego's and want to be seen as nr.1 in a certain category for as long as possible.

In Goran's case I don't think it is necessarily that Fed beat him but that Fed makes everything look too easy. Goran had some real hardships with injury in his career, like Nadal, and had to battle through many hard moments, just like Nadal. Fed is actually in the same boat as these two but because of his genius, everything looks TOO EASY. I mean I was watching Fed in Basel and the guy was pulling off some very difficult shots like it was Sunday and he was playing in the park. It's tough for many players, past or present, to identify with that level of near perfection. Whereas you can identify with Nadal struggling, running, hitting on the back foot or on the dead run etc. It's that whole genius vs work dichotomy even though in my mind Fed is a very hard worker and Rafa Nadal has tennis smarts as well.
 
How can one's game have "more character" than the other?

I am amazed to see that the big serving croat digs Rafa. I mean I can see a guy like Muster/Kafelnikov digging Rafa but Goran? Next thing you know we'll be seeing Becker or Sampras say they like Nadal's game more than Fed's.

But I kinda agree with the bit about legends being driven by their ego's. Sampras won't come out and say it but he was glad that Nadal protected his record against Fed as long as he did. Ditto for Borg with consecutive WB wins. Most of these legends have huge ego's and want to be seen as nr.1 in a certain category for as long as possible.

In Goran's case I don't think it is necessarily that Fed beat him but that Fed makes everything look too easy. Goran had some real hardships with injury in his career, like Nadal, and had to battle through many hard moments, just like Nadal. Fed is actually in the same boat as these two but because of his genius, everything looks TOO EASY. I mean I was watching Fed in Basel and the guy was pulling off some very difficult shots like it was Sunday and he was playing in the park. It's tough for many players, past or present, to identify with that level of near perfection. Whereas you can identify with Nadal struggling, running, hitting on the back foot or on the dead run etc. It's that whole genius vs work dichotomy even though in my mind Fed is a very hard worker and Rafa Nadal has tennis smarts as well.

Plus when you look at Federer, he's doing things by the textbook, and all these legends have also used the textbook for most of their shots too. Whereas Rafa hasn't followed the textbook, and therefore the legends can't say "I can do that" because Rafa's heavily spun lasso forehand, Rafa's powerful backhand passing shot, is not something those legends have done. Even Rafa's serve is quite a unique motion. Rafa's stamina level is also something most legends haven't duplicated, as Jim Courier noted in the 2009 Australian Open. So basically, the legends are seeing something new when they look at Rafa. I know how they feel, because when I watch someone else play sports I can't find it entertaining unless they are doing something I can't do.
 
Maybe Rafa's game is more appealing to most people, but also don't forget a lot of these legends may not like Federer's self-obsessiveness. There is no doubt these legends would find Rafa's personality more appealing.

yep, because the likes of connors,lendl,mcenroe,becker,agassi etc were epitomes of humbleness !!!! LOL !!!!!
 
Back in 2004 at Wimbledon, when Federer had just 2 majors...when asked who the greatest player he ever faced was, Goran named Federer, saying (paraphrasing) "I don't know if he'll win as many majors as Pete Sampras, but talent-wise, Roger Federer. You watch him, you think tennis is easy sport."

So he's always been a big Federer fan as well. I don't think he initially liked Nadal all that much, either, as he once scoffed at the idea that Nadal was a favorite for Wimbledon (think it was either 2006 or 2007)..."not on this surface."

Once Nadal became a great grass court player, I guess Ivanisevic started to like him a lot more..."lefty winning on grass, cool."
 
yep, because the likes of connors,lendl,mcenroe,becker,agassi etc were epitomes of humbleness !!!! LOL !!!!!

Often the more self-obsessed a person is the more they'll dislike another self-obsessed person. They'll tend to congregate around the more humble people. It's like a marriage, if you have two very arrogant people in the same household it leads to too many arguments. If Federer met himself I bet he'd resent himself. Therefore I can see why a self-obsessed legend would like Rafa more.
 
uhm, I believe this is the real reason why Mr. Ivanisevic prefers Nadal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC11vzJmeyE

2.jpg


I would not speak kindly of someone who has made me look this bad also.

ROFL!!!!! WIN !!!



Goran is a good person. My friend met him when he visited Australia after he won wimbledon.
But it is a pity that he likes Nadal's game and said that it has more 'character'. I just think Nadal's game is too hard on your body and also Nadal's butt picking and time wasting and on court coaching just make his game less pleasant to watch.
 
ROFL!!!!! WIN !!!



Goran is a good person. My friend met him when he visited Australia after he won wimbledon.
But it is a pity that he likes Nadal's game and said that it has more 'character'. I just think Nadal's game is too hard on your body and also Nadal's butt picking and time wasting and on court coaching just make his game less pleasant to watch.

LOL. Really? Tell me how do you know the exact moment when Nadal is being coached. Most of the people here had no idea that Nadal was being coached on MP in USO until he came out and said it. Time-wasting I get, it slows the game down. Butt picking offends the more sensitive viewers. But while not liking coaching during matches is perfectly reasonable, it does not affect the viewer watching the Nadal game since 99,9% of time most viewers don't even notice it.
 
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LOL. Really? Tell me how do you know the exact moment when Nadal is being coached. Most of the people here had no idea that Nadal was being coached on MP in USO until he came out and said it. Time-wasting I get, it slows the game down. Butt picking offends the more sensitive viewers. But while not liking coaching during matches is perfectly reasonable, it does not affect the viewer watching the Nadal game since 99,9% of time most viewers don't even notice it.

Eh what? Link please. Or are you joking?
 
LOL. Really? Tell me how do you know the exact moment when Nadal is being coached. Most of the people here had no idea that Nadal was being coached on MP in USO until he came out and said it. Time-wasting I get, it slows the game down. Butt picking offends the more sensitive viewers. But while not liking coaching during matches is perfectly reasonable, it does not affect the viewer watching the Nadal game since 99,9% of time most viewers don't even notice it.

LOL, he never said he was coached on matchpoint, he said "they told me to..." in reference to instruction about tactics he generally receives. Not during the match!!!
 
He said it in an interview with El Pais and atleast that's how the translation seems to have come out.Either way he got finedn during Wimbledon so we know he's being coached :wink:

He was fined during Wimbledon, and the commentators proved he wasn't being coached because the replay showed Uncle Toni was yelling "Vamos" repeatedly. So he was actually fined because Uncle Toni was encouraging him. There was a youtube showing Rafa at the change of ends after the "coaching" and he was signaling at Uncle Toni to "be quiet". Then people pointed to that and called it coaching. LOL
 
"Interviewer: You look to your bench, and you are so nervous that you ask: 'Where?' 'Where do I serve?' Was it so difficult?



Nadal: It was in the last game, when I was serving for the match . . . I didn't know where to serve. Down the center, to the middle or to try the classic play of the wide serve and then try to hit the forehand. They told me to serve wide and that's where I served."
 
Tennis is about winning matches.
As a spectator I'm entertained and impressed by a player who wins. If it were otherwise, Monfils would be GOAT.
 
I can see what he means by "character". It's certainly more complex than federer's. If federer improved his backhand maybe he can get up to nadal's level.

Yeah...heavy topspin crosscourt forehands to the right handed player's backhand has a whole lot of complexity.
Go check the dictionary about what "complex" actually means.
This is similar to the logic that states Agassi had more of an "all round" game than Sampras...or that he was a "more complete player" because he (got lucky and) won the French.
He may have won the French and was a more accomplished clay court player than Sampras ever was...but there is no doubt in anybody's mind (anybody who has some tennis knowledge that is) that Sampras had BY FAR a more complete tennis game than Agassi ever did and ever will have in his life.
Agassi had one game plan. Nadal had one game plan (he IS evolving as a player though...his progress is very impressive and he is already more versatile than Agassi was) but STILL the likes of Sampras or Federer (especially Federer) have many more options/shots.

uhm, I believe this is the real reason why Mr. Ivanisevic prefers Nadal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC11vzJmeyE

2.jpg


I would not speak kindly of someone who has made me look this bad also.

Heh, that was funny...and it may not be very far from the truth ;).
Nah...I'm kidding...and people (the OP that is) hand pick quotes to suit their own agenda.
Yes, Nadal is playing better tennis and winning A LOT, and plenty of people are "noticing him" more than before due to this fact.
Personal preference is personal preference and pro players will have opinions as well. Nothing really "spectacular" in that quote except the OP's agenda.
 
http://www.austrianindependent.com/...5237/Ivanisevic_impressed_by_Muster_and_Nadal

"Asked whether he was more impressed by Swiss Ace Roger Federer or Spanish Star Rafael Nadal, Ivanisevic to the Salzburger Nachriten: "Nadal because his game has more character and is more physical than Federer's performances. Federer's game is inimitable and elegant, but personally I prefer Rafa".
That quote isn't identical to the one in the article, so that makes me wonder... you're aware of copy & paste, aren't you?
 
That quote isn't identical to the one in the article, so that makes me wonder... you're aware of copy & paste, aren't you?
He doesn't need copy and paste, I'm sure the quote is already committed to memory to be trotted out pointlessly during another Fedal **** measuring contest.
 
Um...Federer beat Goran when he was 18 and 19 in 2000 and in 2001, respectively. Goran won Wimbledon in 2001.

Nadal beat Goran in 2004 when Goran was ranked #750 in the world and semi-retired with a serious shoulder injury. A big difference don't you think?

Still waiting for The-Champ's reply... :oops:
 
Yeah...heavy topspin crosscourt forehands to the right handed player's backhand has a whole lot of complexity.
Go check the dictionary about what "complex" actually means.
This is similar to the logic that states Agassi had more of an "all round" game than Sampras...or that he was a "more complete player" because he (got lucky and) won the French.
He may have won the French and was a more accomplished clay court player than Sampras ever was...but there is no doubt in anybody's mind (anybody who has some tennis knowledge that is) that Sampras had BY FAR a more complete tennis game than Agassi ever did and ever will have in his life.
Agassi had one game plan. Nadal had one game plan (he IS evolving as a player though...his progress is very impressive and he is already more versatile than Agassi was) but STILL the likes of Sampras or Federer (especially Federer) have many more options/shots.

Dude, you've got to be joking. S&V is complex? Serve, go to net. Serve, go to net. Now Sampras had VERY UNDERRATED groundstrokes but that was his meat and potatoes just like Agassi had his return game and taking early cuts at the ball. Federer I can understand, he can basically do it all and has made 5 finals in RG, 5 in AO, 6 in USO, 7 in WB and has all the shots in the book. He is the complete package. But Sampras never made to a RG final. Not once. He was not that great on slow surfaces though he did have a couple of memorable clay matches.

Agassi, the best returner I've seen, had a game just as complex as Sampras if not more. Sure, Sampras is superior on serve and volleys, mentally too but if we are talking about groundstrokes I would have to give it to Agassi overall.

And succeeding on all surfaces does indicate a higher complexity in one's game, probably best seen in Federer.

Let's take just the big four:

AO - Agassi won 4 of these, Sampras 2. He managed to beat Pete in a slam here and Pete won those two when Agassi was not in the tournament.

RG - "luckily" won in 99' but made another two finals, losing when he was 20/21 to great CC'ers like Gomez(4 sets) and Courier(5 sets). Pete made no finals here.

WB - he was really out of his element in the S&V capital of the world at the time, yet he made 2 finals here, winning in five against ivanisevic(who had taken sampras out) in 92' and getting demolished by Sampras in 99'. This was Pete's home with 7 WB yet Andre managed one win and two finals overall at his most vulnerable slam.

USO - This is basically where the GS count and rivalry was decided. Agassi has 6 finals here, Sampras has 8, beating Agassi three times here. Agassi ended up with 2 USO and Pete with 5.

As you can see, Pete gained the bulk of his slams on the fastest surfaces out there at the time, WB and USO, he won 12 slams combined there. He only won two on the slower surfaces.

Agassi won slams on slower surfaces, 4 AO + 1 RG(but it could have been 2) and slams on the fastest surfaces, 1 WB(and he had guys like mcenroe,becker and ivanisevic on this fast surface to do it) and 2 USO(plus another 3 USO finals lost to one of the best HC'ers of all time and another against the GOAT).

Even if we look at finals, Agassi has 4 AO finals, 3 RG finals, 2 WB finals and 5 USO finals. It's 7-7 if we talk about fast vs slow.
Sampras had 3 AO finals, 0 RG, 7 WB finals and 8 USO finals. So it would be 15-2 fast vs. slow.

At the end of the day, Agassi could play on all surfaces well and even excelled on slow HC and clay(which was odd for an american). Sampras only excelled where he had fast surfaces. And you wanna argue that he was the more complete player? Let's say Nadal won 10 RG and 3 AO and wound up with 13 slams while Djoker won 3 RG, 5 USO, 2 WB, 3 AO. Who would you deem as the more complete player?
 
Seriously, who cares what all the players think? Their opinion is just like any other person's opinion. Goran like Nadal, I like Federer, life goes on.

The subtle difference is that you're a ******* nobody on a tennis forum, Ivanišević is a Wimbledon champion.
 
Yeah...heavy topspin crosscourt forehands to the right handed player's backhand has a whole lot of complexity.
Go check the dictionary about what "complex" actually means.
This is similar to the logic that states Agassi had more of an "all round" game than Sampras...or that he was a "more complete player" because he (got lucky and) won the French.
He may have won the French and was a more accomplished clay court player than Sampras ever was...but there is no doubt in anybody's mind (anybody who has some tennis knowledge that is) that Sampras had BY FAR a more complete tennis game than Agassi ever did and ever will have in his life.
Agassi had one game plan. Nadal had one game plan (he IS evolving as a player though...his progress is very impressive and he is already more versatile than Agassi was) but STILL the likes of Sampras or Federer (especially Federer) have many more options/shots.



Heh, that was funny...and it may not be very far from the truth ;).
Nah...I'm kidding...and people (the OP that is) hand pick quotes to suit their own agenda.
Yes, Nadal is playing better tennis and winning A LOT, and plenty of people are "noticing him" more than before due to this fact.
Personal preference is personal preference and pro players will have opinions as well. Nothing really "spectacular" in that quote except the OP's agenda.


Great post. Agree 100%.
 
LOL at the *******s crying about Goran´s opinion.
Both beat him when he was older than 31/32 and not even close to his prime.
I´m not saying he would beat Nadal and Fed but his chances would be much higher than back then.

Goran is one of the greatest personalities in tennis history but even that isn´t enough tu shut the *******s mouth. (*******s too)
 
"Interviewer: You look to your bench, and you are so nervous that you ask: 'Where?' 'Where do I serve?' Was it so difficult?



Nadal: It was in the last game, when I was serving for the match . . . I didn't know where to serve. Down the center, to the middle or to try the classic play of the wide serve and then try to hit the forehand. They told me to serve wide and that's where I served."

Do you believe everything that you read in the press? "They told me to serve wide" could very well have referred to general instructions given prior to the match, or are you suggesting that the whole team shouted or signalled for him to serve wide and no one noticed. People who were actually present at the match had this to say:-

Posted by Mr Rick 09/19/2010 01.36pm

"His face was beet red the last couple of points of the match, he was probably in "out of body" stage by that point, and it would have been understandable if he had plain forgotten how to serve, let alone where to serve, at that final moment.

But I was sitting above Rafa's team and I saw no coaching during that point or the match and he did not seem to look at his team all that much except after winning a point "

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewr....html#comments
 
Do you believe everything that you read in the press? "They told me to serve wide" could very well have referred to general instructions given prior to the match, or are you suggesting that the whole team shouted or signalled for him to serve wide and no one noticed. People who were actually present at the match had this to say:-

Posted by Mr Rick 09/19/2010 01.36pm

"His face was beet red the last couple of points of the match, he was probably in "out of body" stage by that point, and it would have been understandable if he had plain forgotten how to serve, let alone where to serve, at that final moment.

But I was sitting above Rafa's team and I saw no coaching during that point or the match and he did not seem to look at his team all that much except after winning a point "

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewr....html#comments

Thanks for bringing this to light. Very informative.
 
Um...Federer beat Goran when he was 18 and 19 in 2000 and in 2001, respectively. Goran won Wimbledon in 2001.

Goran was ranked world number 61 at 2000 London and world number 123 at 2001 Milan, when he lost those matches to Federer. Federer was ranked world number 66 at 2000 London and world number 27 at 2001 Milan.

Nadal beat Goran in 2004 when Goran was ranked #750 in the world and semi-retired with a serious shoulder injury. A big difference don't you think?

Not that much. Goran had been in meltdown for some time going into 2001 Wimbledon.
 
Heh, that was funny...and it may not be very far from the truth ;).
Nah...I'm kidding...and people (the OP that is) hand pick quotes to suit their own agenda.
Yes, Nadal is playing better tennis and winning A LOT, and plenty of people are "noticing him" more than before due to this fact.
Personal preference is personal preference and pro players will have opinions as well. Nothing really "spectacular" in that quote except the OP's agenda.

QFT

10 chars
 
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ROFL, the wheels on the Federer bandwagon are falling off fast! I'm afraid Nadal will send giant-nose into obscurity if he continues his 2010 slam winning ways!

BTW, T-C & Suresh ... ROFL, you guys rock! :)
 
ROFL, the wheels on the Federer bandwagon are falling off fast! I'm afraid Nadal will send giant-nose into obscurity if he continues his 2010 slam winning ways!

BTW, T-C & Suresh ... ROFL, you guys rock! :)

all I can say is keep dreaming ! there are plenty and I repeat plenty of people who'd anyday watch federer and prefer him ahead of nadal , regardless of how much nadal wins :)
 
ROFL, the wheels on the Federer bandwagon are falling off fast! I'm afraid Nadal will send giant-nose into obscurity if he continues his 2010 slam winning ways!

BTW, T-C & Suresh ... ROFL, you guys rock! :)



LOL, the ****s are spazing like crazy. Love watching them cry!
 
Do you believe everything that you read in the press? "They told me to serve wide" could very well have referred to general instructions given prior to the match, or are you suggesting that the whole team shouted or signalled for him to serve wide and no one noticed. People who were actually present at the match had this to say:-

Posted by Mr Rick 09/19/2010 01.36pm

"His face was beet red the last couple of points of the match, he was probably in "out of body" stage by that point, and it would have been understandable if he had plain forgotten how to serve, let alone where to serve, at that final moment.

But I was sitting above Rafa's team and I saw no coaching during that point or the match and he did not seem to look at his team all that much except after winning a point "

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewr....html#comments

Who is this Mr Rick?
 
Come on people lets not get our panties in a bunch over this as things like Gorans comments are to be expected and there will be many more to come as long as Rafa is on the top.

Many people tend to live in the moment and support the "next big thing or person".

It happened when Fed was in his prime, Pete, Borg, Agassi, etc..., etc.....

While Nadal is on top everyone will sing his praises.

When the "next big person" comes along then we will slowly see everyone shift their opinions towards them.

Its human nature people.
 
Who is this Mr Rick?

Mr Rick was a spectator at the finals of the USO. He responded to an article written about the match in question.

Steve Tignor tennis journalist was also present and commented:

Posted by Steve 09/19/2010 at 12:38 PM

"The press section at the open, where i was sitting at the end, is in the opposite corner from where toni and company were sitting, and where nadal was serving at the time. i didn't notice anything.

He was clearly nervous in the game before, when he over hit a backhand at 15-30 that could have given him two match points (i think that was the score, not sure). and like he said, he was nervous on his serve in the final game. but that was all to be expected, considering how close he was to winning the open, and how well djokovic had played"

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewr....html#comments
 
Well I always thought the sampras all-court game was more complex than agassi's (even though I remember federer calling sampras 2 dimensional and agassi 3 dimensional :roll:), that doesn't change the fact that right now nadal's game is more complex than federer's.

Nadal can play offense, defense, he now hurts people with his serve, forehand, bh and all court game. His performance against Murray at wimbledon was nearly the complete package, the only thing missing was big serves on the duece side and big serves down the middle of the service box on the ad side. But he fixed that at the US open, although we will have to wait and see if nadal can sustain it, although his serving against troicki suggests he can.

The key though in my mind is the bh, nadal really hurts people with his bh on clay and grass. Federer can't really do that and that limits the complexity of his game. Sure in 2006 on most surfaces Federer had a more complex game than nadal, but not anymore. :) Ofcourse fed. fanboys shouldn't worry that this means nadal will necessarily surpass fed's career numbers since fed still has the better serve (more aces) and better fearhand (in fed's prime).
 
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Dude, you've got to be joking. S&V is complex? Serve, go to net. Serve, go to net. Now Sampras had VERY UNDERRATED groundstrokes but that was his meat and potatoes just like Agassi had his return game and taking early cuts at the ball. Federer I can understand, he can basically do it all and has made 5 finals in RG, 5 in AO, 6 in USO, 7 in WB and has all the shots in the book. He is the complete package. But Sampras never made to a RG final. Not once. He was not that great on slow surfaces though he did have a couple of memorable clay matches.

Agassi, the best returner I've seen, had a game just as complex as Sampras if not more. Sure, Sampras is superior on serve and volleys, mentally too but if we are talking about groundstrokes I would have to give it to Agassi overall.

And succeeding on all surfaces does indicate a higher complexity in one's game, probably best seen in Federer.

Let's take just the big four:

AO - Agassi won 4 of these, Sampras 2. He managed to beat Pete in a slam here and Pete won those two when Agassi was not in the tournament.

RG - "luckily" won in 99' but made another two finals, losing when he was 20/21 to great CC'ers like Gomez(4 sets) and Courier(5 sets). Pete made no finals here.

WB - he was really out of his element in the S&V capital of the world at the time, yet he made 2 finals here, winning in five against ivanisevic(who had taken sampras out) in 92' and getting demolished by Sampras in 99'. This was Pete's home with 7 WB yet Andre managed one win and two finals overall at his most vulnerable slam.

USO - This is basically where the GS count and rivalry was decided. Agassi has 6 finals here, Sampras has 8, beating Agassi three times here. Agassi ended up with 2 USO and Pete with 5.

As you can see, Pete gained the bulk of his slams on the fastest surfaces out there at the time, WB and USO, he won 12 slams combined there. He only won two on the slower surfaces.

Agassi won slams on slower surfaces, 4 AO + 1 RG(but it could have been 2) and slams on the fastest surfaces, 1 WB(and he had guys like mcenroe,becker and ivanisevic on this fast surface to do it) and 2 USO(plus another 3 USO finals lost to one of the best HC'ers of all time and another against the GOAT).

Even if we look at finals, Agassi has 4 AO finals, 3 RG finals, 2 WB finals and 5 USO finals. It's 7-7 if we talk about fast vs slow.
Sampras had 3 AO finals, 0 RG, 7 WB finals and 8 USO finals. So it would be 15-2 fast vs. slow.

At the end of the day, Agassi could play on all surfaces well and even excelled on slow HC and clay(which was odd for an american). Sampras only excelled where he had fast surfaces. And you wanna argue that he was the more complete player? Let's say Nadal won 10 RG and 3 AO and wound up with 13 slams while Djoker won 3 RG, 5 USO, 2 WB, 3 AO. Who would you deem as the more complete player?

Repeat after me. Complex game in this discussion does not mean winning on all surfaces if you win on all surfaces playing the same freakin' game (i.e. serving for percentage...and bashing from the baseline left to right until you force an error or make the other guy puke from all the running). It IS an efficient game...but complex or varied ... it is not.
Why do you think Agassi was quoted saying something like "it doesn't matter if they know what's coming if I can execute well" ?? Because he had a complex, varied, unpredictable game ?? NO ... it was because EVERYBODY knew what was coming...every point...every situation.
If you could do something about it...great...you win. If not ... too bad... you lose.
With Sampras ... you only knew what was coming on his first serve (and only later in his career). On the second serve...on the return ... he could and would do "whatever".
Complex in this context means varied...all court...playing all the shots.
Sampras was NOT a net rusher. He served and volleyed because it was high percentage to do so for him due to his unbelievable serve. When he saw that his percentages with the S&V game were not good enough he was playing baseline as well ... and doing it exceptionally well (yes...including against a great baseliner like Agassi).

The only part of the game where Agassi was superior to Sampras was the topspin backhand.
Every other part...Sampras was equal or better.
Forehand ... i would call it even - Sampras had more power, AA had more consistency. Keep in mind...that I'm probably being generous to Agassi by calling it even.
Volleys - Sampras had good to great volleys ... Agassi below average
Serve - Sampras exceptional...Agassi average
Movement - Sampras exceptional...Agassi average (if that).

With regards to the French...the problem with Sampras and the French was not really his game.
To some extent his backhand was exploitable on clay...yes...but the real problems were his mental approach, and his physical limitations.
He played a physically taxing game and the "grind" would get to him.
Also...he couldn't be bothered MENTALLY to grind it out either. I guess in his head he believed not winning the French would not matter...the rest of his results would be enough "for history".
Guess he was wrong.

Well I always thought the sampras all-court game was more complex than agassi's (even though I remember federer calling sampras 2 dimensional and agassi 3 dimensional :roll:), that doesn't change the fact that right now nadal's game is more complex than federer's.

Nadal can play offense, defense, he now hurts people with his serve, forehand, bh and all court game. His performance against Murray at wimbledon was nearly the complete packaage, the only thing missing was big serves on the duece side and big serves down the middle of the service box on the ad side. But he fixed that at the US open, although we will have to wait and see if nadal can sustain it, although his serving against troicki suggests he can.

The key though in my mind is the bh, nadal really hurts people with his bh on clay and grass. Federer can't really do that and that limits the complexity of his game. Sure in 2006 on most surfaces Federer had a more complex game than nadal, but not anymore. :) Ofcourse fed. fanboys shouldn't worry that this means nadal will necessarily surpass fed's career numbers since fed still has the better serve (more aces) and better fearhand (in fed's prime).

Not sure why I bothered quoting you since it is obvious to me at this point that having a realistic, arguments and knowledge based discussion with you about "Federer/Nadal" is impossible.
Reading your so called arguments is lowering my IQ (or at least killing plenty of braincells) with every second.
I would ask you about your age...but come to think of it ... age has nothing to do with it. Veroniquem is an adult woman (as far as she's saying) and still...:confused:
There are also plenty of rational and intelligent teens on this forum...so...guess age is not that important after all.
 
Well I always thought the sampras all-court game was more complex than agassi's (even though I remember federer calling sampras 2 dimensional and agassi 3 dimensional :roll:), that doesn't change the fact that right now nadal's game is more complex than federer's.

Nadal can play offense, defense, he now hurts people with his serve, forehand, bh and all court game. His performance against Murray at wimbledon was nearly the complete packaage, the only thing missing was big serves on the duece side and big serves down the middle of the service box on the ad side. But he fixed that at the US open, although we will have to wait and see if nadal can sustain it, although his serving against troicki suggests he can.

The key though in my mind is the bh, nadal really hurts people with his bh on clay and grass. Federer can't really do that and that limits the complexity of his game. Sure in 2006 on most surfaces Federer had a more complex game than nadal, but not anymore. :) Ofcourse fed. fanboys shouldn't worry that this means nadal will necessarily surpass fed's career numbers since fed still has the better serve (more aces) and better fearhand (in fed's prime).

@ bold part: I'd be really surprised if he said that. proof please ?

nadal's game more complex than fed's at his prime ? really ? :)

let's know when he starts taking the ball on the rise or chip & charging or SnV's more than 10 times in a match or comes to the net 50 or more times in a match

oh and btw nadal's returning vs murray in 2010 wimbledon was "medicore" ..

fed hurts players with his BH on grass ! .
 
@ bold part: I'd be really surprised if he said that. proof please ?
.
I'd be really surprised too .What I won't be surprised about is this being a lie.*******s have a knack of "recalling" stuff that dosen't exist especially when it comes to Fed.:)
 
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