Goran Ivanesevic: "More impressed by Nadal than Federer".

mandy01 said:
Might've been after his match against Nadal in Miami.Can't be sure.
Anyway Fed said for a long time hat if there was one player he'd like to succeed him in the rankings it would be Nadal.
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Shush now! ksbh probably wanted to keep that a secret...Don't want to ruin that pr*ckly image now do we? :oops:
 
namelessone said:
And you're wrong about Sampras's dimensions. Sure, the guy would hang back when his serve wasn't clicking but that was out of necessity more than some genius of his. His meat and potatoes was still net play. Agassi is basically the inventor of the modern groundstroke game. He didn't have terrific volleys or serve but he has a huge success with those groundstrokes even though he had a big lull in the middle of his career. Sampras was S&V just like Agassi is baseline. Agassi had superior strokes IMO when it came to the baseline game.
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I have seen quite a few Sampras and Agassi matches and it was clear that Sampras was better from the baseline than Agassi was at net.



point at 7:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOqYPPnAslE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDPoCQD1duU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e1l5ysv6bQ
 
7000, abmk, Jerry et al ... don't get me wrong. For what it's worth, I think Nadal's a p*rick too, with his injury antics. I stand by my earlier assertions that the current top 2 are the biggest p*ussies I've ever seen in my decades of following this sport!

I can tolarate it because they just happen to produce the most brilliant tennis as well!
 
cyrilcanada said:
Fed humiliated Kafelnikov at his turf on clay at Davis cup in Moscow. In front of his fans. 6:7 6:1 6:1 . The fella was fighting dearly to get away from bagels.
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I don't think that's the reason. Muster and Kuerten were thorns in Kafelnikov's side, and Kafelnikov rates them highly. He also had a fallout with a young Hewitt back in 1999 and Hewitt proceeded to hammer Kafelnikov in Davis Cup by the score of 6-4, 7-5, 6-2, right after Kafelnikov had said that he was going to "teach Hewitt a lesson". They later sorted out their differences.

It's therefore unlikely that Kafelnikov would dislike Federer because of a Davis Cup defeat in Moscow.
 
Mustard said:
I don't think that's the reason. Muster and Kuerten were thorns in Kafelnikov's side, and Kafelnikov rates them highly. He also had a fallout with a young Hewitt back in 1999 and Hewitt proceeded to hammer Kafelnikov in Davis Cup by the score of 6-4, 7-5, 6-2, right after Kafelnikov had said that he was going to "teach Hewitt a lesson". They later sorted out their differences.

It's therefore unlikely that Kafelnikov would dislike Federer because of a Davis Cup defeat in Moscow.
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Being thorn in his side is one thing. That match was special.
Kafelnikov was country hero. It was clay. It was home with thousands fans. It was expected walk over Fed. A tank against flee.
Believe me, it was really bad. Shock of national scale.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
Sampras and Nadal are more impressive athletes than Federer. By that I mean quicker on the dead run and more 'explosive' athletes. Which makes them more dimensional and better to watch.
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Sampras better to watch than Fed? Bwahaha! You are funny.

Boy you have no idea how utterly boring Samps was do you?

His boringness in fact brought tennis to the brink of oblivion, directly prompting an anti-Sampras backlash (resulting in surface changes and what-not)

This is the most memorable headline when Sampras was at his zenith:

tennisdying.jpg
 
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Which female pop star is the GOAT??? Is Shakira multidimensional? Does Gwen have better results overall? How's the "head to head," lmao.
 
jerriy said:
Sampras better to watch than Fed? Bwahaha! You are funny.

Boy you have no idea how utterly boring Samps was do you?

His boringness in fact brought tennis to the brink of oblivion, directly prompting an anti-Sampras backlash (resulting in surface changes and what-not)

This is the most memorable headline when Sampras was at his zenith:

tennisdying.jpg
Click to expand...




you are correct. Nadal has been the savior of tennis.
 
TACOSRULE said:
you are correct. Nadal has been the savior of tennis.
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LOL

You know damn wel who saved tennis, who the "jesus" is, so to speak.

We will find out in the future if nadal will also be regarded as a Saviour. One thing is for sure: at the moment he isn't getting enough support from his sidekicks Joker and especially a certain "mummy's boy" who has difficulty motivating himself to be consistent against lesser players.
 
abmk said:
when has nadal chip and charged ? tell me please !! I've seen federer hit insane return winners ; many times, it doesn't even look like he's hitting hard, he just takes it on the rise and it's right at the server's feet !



It was just to highlight that as far as net play is concerned, fed is clearly more proficient .

Some of the matches I remember where he came in a lot of times would be:

sampras wimb 2001 4R
henman wimb 2001 QF
roddick wimb 2003 SF
scud wimb 2003 F
safin AO 2005 SF
nadal rome 2006 F
nadal AO 2009 F

I remember him coming in more than 40 times in the 3 setter vs haas

he came in nearly 40 times vs djoker in his USO SF in 2009 as well

he came in quite a bit vs ancic in wimb 2006 QF as well

andreev match - you already remember ( I think he came in for more than 70 points in that match )



away from the baseline ? you mean from behind the baseline ? if that'd be passing shots , I'd agree ... but federer can hit winners from anywhere on the court, on the rise in front of the baseline or from way behind the baseline , his game is clearly more versatile ( well to those who are not wearing tinted glasses ! )



I'd like a link to that "interview"
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Federer used to serve and volley a lot more pre 2005, but he made a conscious decision to move away from that most likely because (for whatever reason) he realized he could win more without it. This is a reduction in complexity and overall I don't think all-court s/v play is a big part of fed's game.

Like I said in the last post and backed up by the matches you listed, 2005 on fed. loses a lot of the matches where he has to come in a lot. Fed's all-court game is a WAY inferior plan B to the Plan A that works so well for him. Fed's problems with all-court play are well understood imo. He hits poor approach shots (poor location, too easy for djokver/nadal/jmdp to reach) and has trouble with his forehand volleys. In terms of all court-play Nadal hits better approach shots, has better completion rates at the net and just overall seems to be a better decision-maker about when to come in.

Overall my point is that fed. doesn't use the S/V, all-court play very much and when he does (usually when he is in trouble, like the matches you listed and also wimbledon 2008 F, USO 2010 SF, USO 2009 F (47 approaches), 2008 FO F) fed mostly loses, so this aspect of his game is not so impressive to me. Maybe if I saw more matches like the andreev match where fed's backcourt game was breaking down but his all-court game saved the day, I would give fed's all-court game more credit.

Just to note, nadal's bh comes into play in nearly every match in at least 5 big tournaments (3 MS, 2 GS) vs. fed's all court play which doesn't come into play very much and when it does it doesn't seem to work.

But I like your point about the ROS. I think that's a clear win for fed. Nadal might be a bit more aggressive on clay but the number of balls that fed. gets back on all surfaces makes that category a clear win for him.
 
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The-Champ said:
nah.....i still take shakira. Bar looks boring, whereas Shakira is fierce with attitude. Plus Shakira's hips don't lie.
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Bar looks boring? Bar? Looks? Boring? Wait a minute, did you actually put the words Bar, looks, and boring in the same sentence? Man, that's not even a matter of opinion, Bar is the hottest woman on earth, by far better looking than Shakira in every way shape or form.
 
namelessone said:
Missing the point. You said that Nadal get coached affects the quality of tennis viewings, or your tennis viewings to be exact. I didn't say that Nadal doesn't get coached I just said that it is not visible thus it does not affect your viewing of a particular match. You can see the buttpicking. You can feel the slowness of the serve ritual. But you can't see or hear WHEN Nadal is being coached, big emphasis on WHEN. Before Nadal got a warning in WB, did you see or hear his box shouting tactics while you were watching from home? Before Nadal opened his mouth about being directed on MP in USO, did you know that he was coached? No, you didn't and thus it did not affect your viewing.

I think you wanted to say that the IDEA of Nadal getting coached is bothersome to you and it affects how you view him as a player but that is something totally different.
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I know you knew what I meant. I'm not a native English speaker but you get the point anyway. The fact that the umpire said 'illegal coach warnings' and also 'time violation warnings' really spoil the pleasantness of watching tennis. It makes me feel that he's doing something unfair and therefore his tennis game is unclean and that bothers me... and that affects the rest of the tennis game I am or was watching. To be short, watching Nadal's game is way less pleasant than watching Federer's game
 
Shakira...? Gwen Stefani...? "GOAT" ?
Uh oh...misguided kiddies...

You guys ever heard of Lara Fabian ?? (just an example).
I don't care if she doesn't sell in all her career as much as Britney Spears does in a year...she is a real singer...and a real (deserving) "star".
Don't get me wrong...I like girls like Shakira...Avril Lavigne...and others mentioned...but... let me know when any of them can sing "Caruso" live with only a piano as background and actually make it a great performance ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT82udt6j8M&feature=related ).
Fabian can sing (and speak fluently) in at least 4 different languages, has phenomenal voice capabilities (both technically and in ability to express emotions) ... and manages all that while still being extremely hot, not in a "stupid baby doll" way but in a "real, smart woman" kind of way ...even now in her 40's.

Bonus track - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgICk_RTDIs (yeh, I know you Americans may have a problem with "Frenchies" ... but she's not French even if she sings in French :twisted:...among other languages).

Your "chick singer goat propositions" (TM) :D, are just as bad as people stating that Agassi or Nadal (right now) have a legitimate claim to "GOAT-ness".
 
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namelessone said:
I get what you're saying but I can't tell if you are severely overrating Sampras or if you are under-rating Agassi. And come on, you can't win ON ALL SURFACES with not having a complete game. Mind you, this was when surfaces were still wildly different. Sampras was not that great on slower courts so I don't care how good his S&V or groundstrokes were, they simply didn't hold up as well as on fast courts in AO and RG. Meanwhile Agassi had a game that made him get to 7 fastcourt GS finals and 7 slower court ones.

And you're wrong about Sampras's dimensions. Sure, the guy would hang back when his serve wasn't clicking but that was out of necessity more than some genius of his. His meat and potatoes was still net play. Agassi is basically the inventor of the modern groundstroke game. He didn't have terrific volleys or serve but he has a huge success with those groundstrokes even though he had a big lull in the middle of his career. Sampras was S&V just like Agassi is baseline. Agassi had superior strokes IMO when it came to the baseline game.

On some level I agree with you but I just can't buy into the notion that you can succeed on all surfaces with a less complex game(and we are talking slow-AO, real slow-RG, very fast-WB, fast-USO) than your main rival, who fails to do so while having more dimensions in his game. And mind you Agassi didn't fluke out at one slam and was successful in the other. He made 3 RG finals, 4 AO, 2 WB(home of S&V), 6 USO, a very nice spread.

Agassi's game made him a golden slam winner, with GS's on clay,grass and HC. I'd say you need a pretty complex game for that.
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No...you just need an efficient game for that. Agassi's tennis is anything but complex.
It is efficient, impressive, it can be even exciting, and many other positive adjectives...but complex is not one of them.
It was simple and efficient, and that's that! His superb timing and ability to hit targets was what made it efficient...not its complexity.
Like I said...Nadal's game is already infinitely more "layered" and "complex" than Agassi's ever was...and Nadal is not exactly an icon of "all court complexity" either.
 
P_Agony said:
Bar looks boring? Bar? Looks? Boring? Wait a minute, did you actually put the words Bar, looks, and boring in the same sentence? Man, that's not even a matter of opinion, Bar is the hottest woman on earth, by far better looking than Shakira in every way shape or form.
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she's hot but not as hot as you say she is..if we are bragging about girls in the Federer camp I personally think Reto's wife is better looking
 
bolo said:
Federer used to serve and volley a lot more pre 2005, but he made a conscious decision to move away from that most likely because (for whatever reason) he realized he could win more without it. This is a reduction in complexity and overall I don't think all-court s/v play is a big part of fed's game.

Like I said in the last post and backed up by the matches you listed, 2005 on fed. loses a lot of the matches where he has to come in a lot. Fed's all-court game is a WAY inferior plan B to the Plan A that works so well for him.
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perhaps, but fact is he can still take the net away from another player who comes to the net frequently ( see the haas match in 2009 wimbledon for example ), he has a plan B that can pay off if he is in some of sort of form. If some hitter is in the zone AND stays mentally tough, there's little rafa can do , esp on HCs

another example would be the baggy match recently in cincy 2010, he kept on approaching the net ( chip and charged also a few times ) and baggy kept on passing him with brilliant passing shots. But guess what happened on the 2 BPs he had ? he chip and charged on both of them and won both ! Who cares if you are passed many times, if you can get the net play to work at the right moment ?

bolo said:
Fed's problems with all-court play are well understood imo. He hits poor approach shots (poor location, too easy for djokver/nadal/jmdp to reach) and has trouble with his forehand volleys. In terms of all court-play Nadal hits better approach shots, has better completion rates at the net and just overall seems to be a better decision-maker about when to come in.
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well, this has been a "problem" only in recent years IMO, his approach shots used to be very good earlier . At present rafa's approach shots are clearly better.

bolo said:
Overall my point is that fed. doesn't use the S/V, all-court play very much and when he does (usually when he is in trouble, like the matches you listed and also wimbledon 2008 F, USO 2010 SF, USO 2009 F (47 approaches), 2008 FO F) fed mostly loses, so this aspect of his game is not so impressive to me. Maybe if I saw more matches like the andreev match where fed's backcourt game was breaking down but his all-court game saved the day, I would give fed's all-court game more credit.
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wimbledon 2008 F - pathetic approaches , agreed, FO 2008 was worse

USO 2010 SF - he was actually playing very well at the net, a couple of bad approach shots at crucial moments though !

USO 2009 F - he was doing well earlier when coming to the net, then allowed delpo to come back !

I didn't mention these 3 matches earlier as he didn't come in that often, but his net play in these matches deserves a mention IMO: hamburg 2007 F,delpo AO 2009 QF ( some of those half-volley pickups were ridiculous ) and gonzales AO 2007 F, these all after 2006

bolo said:
Just to note, nadal's bh comes into play in nearly every match in at least 5 big tournaments (3 MS, 2 GS) vs. fed's all court play which doesn't come into play very much and when it does it doesn't seem to work.
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see my reply above , I don't see why you would want to compare nadal's BH with federer's net play ? federer is a baseliner who can volley , so fed's net play is less integral to his play than rafa's BH , who is a baseliner and comes in only occasionally

bolo said:
But I like your point about the ROS. I think that's a clear win for fed. Nadal might be a bit more aggressive on clay but the number of balls that fed. gets back on all surfaces makes that category a clear win for him.
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we're in agreement here :)
 
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abmk said:
USO 2009 F - he was doing well earlier when coming to the net, then allowed delpo to come back !
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That is being unfair to Delpo. He had to come up with tremendous passes to break Federer when he was serving for the 2nd set.


About the ROS; right off the serve Federer is better at getting it back, but once the point starts Nadal has a higher percentage of return games won.
 
TACOSRULE said:
That is being unfair to Delpo. He had to come up with tremendous passes to break Federer when he was serving for the 2nd set.
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I was speaking about the match in general. I remember fed tried one absolutely dumb forehand drop shot in that game first (when he was up 15-0 or 30-0 ?? ) delpo did come up with 2 great passes , one to get to BP and another to seal the break.

TACOSRULE said:
About the ROS; right off the serve Federer is better at getting it back, but once the point starts Nadal has a higher percentage of return games won.
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that is because fed is a mug at converting breakpoints :)
 
P_Agony said:
Bar looks boring? Bar? Looks? Boring? Wait a minute, did you actually put the words Bar, looks, and boring in the same sentence? Man, that's not even a matter of opinion, Bar is the hottest woman on earth, by far better looking than Shakira in every way shape or form.
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Beauty is subjective. Shakira oozes sexuality, (literally screaming: I will break your d!ck in half). Bar on the other hand screams, "I'm like a dead fish on bed". So there you go!


Look how Shakira works that speaker starting at 2:35. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veQYdLR8gR4&feature=related

Bar is not capable of that.
 
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yellowoctopus said:
uhm, I believe this is the real reason why Mr. Ivanisevic prefers Nadal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC11vzJmeyE

2.jpg


I would not speak kindly of someone who has made me look this bad also.
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Hahaha yes! That was too good.

Both nadal and federer's games are great to watch to say one hates the other is just fanatic.

Nadal for his fight and court coverage- aggressive shots

Federer for his feet gliding- and poetic shot making

Goran I don't recall played Nadal much if any? Where federer got the best of him
 
Ivanisevic was more impressed by Muster than either Federer or Nadal.

Does that make Muster the GOAT?
 
10ACE said:
Hahaha yes! That was too good.

Both nadal and federer's games are great to watch to say one hates the other is just fanatic.

Nadal for his fight and court coverage- aggressive shots

Federer for his feet gliding- and poetic shot making

Goran I don't recall played Nadal much if any? Where federer got the best of him
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Oh no, they will cry over this one LOL
 
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