Got a Wise, my first electronic

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Muppet, May 30, 2018.

  1. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I'm coming from an Alpha Pioneer DC+. It's so nice to have that tensioning assembly out of my face. Also, when I'm done with a pull, I can just take the string from the gripper and go directly to my next main or cross. How convenient. I was finding myself going to twist the gripper into position. No more of that. I didn't time my first racquet but it came out great.

    The question I have is, should I move the clamp right after the beep or should I wait and allow it to get close to full tension? At the beep the tension readout usually starts at about a lb. below reference tension and climbs slowly. If I wait for it to climb close to ref tension, will I be taxing the mechanism too much? Am I better off choosing a 1 lb. higher reference tension and moving the clamp right after the beep?

    Much appreciated
     
    #1
  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    Wait for tension to be reached. And you are not harming the machine by waiting. @Shroud uses a WISE and you commented enough about his stringing technique, tensions and differentials. If the Mad Scientist hasn't broken his machine, then I doubt you will unless you spill a beer on it or drop it. Comes with a Diablo; use it.
     
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  3. loosegroove

    loosegroove Hall of Fame

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    Nice! I can't believe I still haven't set up my Wise and Neos, but I will make it happen this weekend. @Muppet, did you just get the standard dropweight adapter for the Wise? Did it line up centered with the turntable so the tension head isn't pulling at an angle? Also, did you ever have issues with the string slipping in the stock linear gripper of your Alpha dropweight?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
    #3
  4. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    The gripper lined straight up with the center of the Pioneer mount using just the standard dropweight adapter. I don't recall the linear gripper on my dropweight ever slipping in eight years using it. The reason I went looking for a new tensioner is that the clutch spring in the drum gave out for the third time. The pin on the old spring broke off inside the drum and I couldn't remove it. I decided to go for the upgrade rather than having to replace the spring every couple of years. It's a real pain to deal with.
     
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  5. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    The diablo now comes as part of the gripper assembly. But thanks for the tip.
     
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  6. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    The beep is supposed to sound when tension is reached, not before. You should be able then to release the clamp when the beep sounds. That's how I worked it anyhow.
     
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  7. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I do release the clamp right after the beep sounds, but then it takes the gripper another 10 or 12 seconds to climb to reference tension. I clamp the string when it has risen to .3 lbs. short of reference tension so that I don't tax the tensioner too much. Do you think I'm going about this the right way? Go up a pound and clamp right away? I have the thing set on constant pull. Is that what's doing it?
     
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  8. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    @Muppet, well with any constant pull, you're not going to hit your target tension and have it stay exactly there. The constant pull part after all is adjusting the tension continually to keep it at tension. If you want a demonstration of this, set your Wise to lockout mode and pull tension. Then watch the meter. It will drop off and quickly. I don't know that I'd sweat it that much, you're talking 2 - 3 tenths of a pound difference and it's still going to be more accurate and consistent that anything else. If you are concerned with it, just bump your tension up a pound and call it a day. :)

    The only other thing I can think of is that your clamp may be slipping and that's why the Wise is coming back up to tension or your mount is slipping (the racket isn't moving, right?).

    Good luck!
     
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  9. Muppet

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    Nope, I've been using the same mount and clamps that I've had for the past 8 years. Everything was normal except for the readout and the gripper. I think it was just the constant pull function and low tensions for the two strings I was using, Kirsch SG 1.25/Red Devil 1.19 @55/50. I think I'll be kind to my tensioner and bump the tensions up a pound. I do like using the constant pull function.
     
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  10. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    Just clamp in a consistent manner timewise, whether it be right after the beep or waiting, say...., three seconds.

    Consistency is key. I clamp mine consistently asap after the beep.
     
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  11. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I think this is a great demonstration. In lockout mode, the tension head reaches reference, and as soon as it stops pulling, the numbers plummet. From this you can observe that the moment you stop applying force, the string is losing tension. This is perfectly normal... and you can't do anything about it.

    Edit: this section may be complete tosh. See posts 31 and 36.

    Back to constant pull mode. When you clamp a string, you are effectively 'locking out' that section. The next time you pull tension, you are doing so only to the portion from the clamp to the tension head. If you were to leave everything alone at this point, you'd see the tension head making minor adjustments to keep it at this tension. However, as soon as you remove the clamp, you're changing the dynamic - the tension head now has a longer section of string on which it can pull. And as we have seen, a string that has been 'locked out' will have lost tension, so I believe what you're observing is the tension head pulling that previous section for a second time.

    My take on this? Well...

    An electronic tension head has a couple of major benefits in my eyes. One of them is the convenience factor - you can't get much easier than pressing a button - the other is consistency. It pulls at the same speed, and it tells you when it's done. Combine the two, and it means you have both hands free to keep those crosses straight whilst tension is being pulled, and should be ready to move the clamp as soon as you hear the beep.

    Would your stringbed have been tighter had you waited the 10-13 seconds? Probably. Would it have been as consistent? Possibly not. So I say follow the beep, and if you don't like the results, increase the reference tension.

    Edit: actually, if you're using two clamps for the crosses, then you should only see this behaviour on the mains. If the reading drops significantly on the crosses, then definitely double-check for clamp slippage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  12. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @Dags if your hypothesis (pulling mains) were correct, other electronic machines would give similar results.
     
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  13. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    ^^ I'll have to watch it next time. I don't look at the display other than to set reference tension. Do you? I can't imagine it's common behaviour... I barely even glance at the gripper now because it's second nature to feed the string and press the button.

    The main reason I believe this could be what's happening is that I've been stringing quite a lot of Head Velocity lately, which streeeeeetches. When I release the clamp, I can hear the tension head making an adjustment that's more than the usual micro movements. It settles after a second or two, which is quicker than the time it takes me to move the clamp to the other end of the rail. I did initially think it must be slippage, but after marking the string, determined that this wasn't the case. I'm open to other conclusions.
     
    #13
  14. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    As a side note, even if I'm completely wrong in why Muppet is observing this behaviour, I still stand by the assertion that moving the clamp swiftly after the beep is the most consistent way to operate the machine.
     
    #14
  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I’m not suggesting your wrong but I think there may be an issue with the new Wise readout circuitry. I would start moving the clamp at the beep. And if I found the tension was not to my liking I would adjust the reference tension.
     
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  16. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    @Dags, I agree with you and truth be told, waiting 5, 10, 15, 30 seconds isn't going to make any difference in the playability of the racket. The same folks who spend all this time nitpicking machines and tensioner differences don't keep their crosses straight when stringing. Heck, this results in more tension loss than anything.


    @Muppet, the big difference with the Wise and before is that before you had no idea what the variance was in each traction. Now, you have a digital representation of the exact tension being pulled. You are a little OCD like the rest of us and you question it, but in the end result it 2 tenths of a pound or even (gasp) one pound isn't going to make a difference. You're puling more consistently, more accurately, and (most of all) more conveniently. So concentrate on your technique and installing the strings straight and true and let the Wise take the guess work out of cranking. :)

    BTW, I had the new Wise and didn't experience anything like this. I think the new "circuitry" is fine on them.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  17. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

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    Congrats. On your new wise...
    ive never used one, seen it,,
    does this tensioner have pull.speed control?
     
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  18. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    @1HBHfanatic - yes it does. I believe there are 3 pulling speeds.
     
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  19. SavvyStringer

    SavvyStringer Rookie

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    I have not used a wise but it is odd that it would beep prior to tension being reached. Maybe it reaches but as the string continues to stretch it continues to pull to keep tension?
     
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  20. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    @SavvyStringer that is my thought as well. The manual says that the beep indicates tension is reached (IIRC).
     
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  21. QuadCam

    QuadCam Professional

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    My wise beeos once tension is met at the set level.

    That's when i release the clamp from the previous string.... Then, i string the next string. All the while the wise is still maintaining tension and making little adjustments as the string stretches a bit. Then, i clamp off and release the tension from the Wise.

    It's all about bring consistent. Whatever your technique, do it the same every time.
     
    #21
  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I would agree but the tension readout should be the output from the load cell. If tension was reached (as detected by load cell) why then does the readout not display the true tension? An electronic tensioner pulls tension on and off intermittently. As the tensioner pulls the load cell measures the force applied by the string and when it reaches reference tension the tensioner stops stretching the string, and then tension in the string drops.After dropping to a predetermined amount the tensioner starts pulling again until the string builds the tension back up. And the beat goes on.

    I'M assuming the readout just can't with the changes that happen so fast at first and the display is misleading. Just like on my Star 5 the reading never goes more than 0.1 over reference tension but if I put a peak hold meter on it I can see the overpull the Babolat machines are notorious for.
     
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  23. tennytive

    tennytive Professional

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    I trust the beep. Having to move a weight along a bar to set tension and then balance the rod level before I could clamp seems like an eternity now compared to a 3 second pull that's never given a second thought while I'm stringing. I noticed my rackets had a consistently tighter string bed from the first attempt. Now I can string right in the middle of the tension range and every one of my four rackets feels the same.
     
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  24. Muppet

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    I'll have to check again the next time I sting. The Wise may be reaching RT at the beep, then dropping off when I remove the clamp, then building back up to RT. I'm going to start ignoring the readout panel. My string beds are coming out plenty tight. I may even want to increase the pull speed. It's set at 3, but I don't know if that designates fast or slow. It seems slow. I'll see how I like 2 and move the clamp at the beep next time.

    Thanks for all of the helpful advice.
     
    #24
  25. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    3 be fast!
     
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  26. Muppet

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    So does that mean the gripper is pulling the string fast to the beep, then I release the clamp, then the gripper starts trying to pull out the lack of tension from the previous pull (settled)? Will a slower pull store more tension in the string (cp), thereby helping the gripper to bring the previous pull up to tension?

    I'm just wondering now how my new toy/investment works best. I'm still going to set the speed at 2/cp and move the clamp and set it right after the beep. My completed racquets will be the final judge of how well my stringing went. I may be back with more questions.
     
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  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Call Wise and ask them what speed you should be using. Herb told me the fastest speed 3 was the best for tennis.
     
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  28. Muppet

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    Thanks Irvin. I was going to set it at 2 to use the middle figure and see what average was like. But it came out of the box set on 3. And with what you just said I'll keep it on 3, go with the beep, and see how my results come out. I figure, if I call Wise and they tell me one thing, but my racquets could benefit from a different setting, I will never know what actually works best. It's like if you're baking an apple pie and the recipe says nothing about cinnamon, but you like cinnamon, do you call the publisher to ask if you can add cinnamon? Maybe this message board is too convenient for me. Thank you for your patience.
     
    #28
  29. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

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    I get a twang of jealousy when I see these threads about mating a Wise to a DW or a crank, but then I think I simply cannot believe that using electronics can do anything to the strings that will help dominate the guys who call me up to hit who are 10, 20-40 yrs younger than me. Please advise if I am wrong.
     
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  30. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @graycrait surprise surprise surprise you're right.
     
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  31. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I had a racquet to string this morning with Head Velocity at 55 lbs. After the beep, the reading was deviating +/- 0.3 lbs. When stringing the mains, after releasing the clamp, the reading dropped by about 1 lb before immediately recovering. The tension head moved a further 1-2 mm when this happened.

    It’s worth making a note about Velocity - it is a multifilament that is extremely stretchy and has a very slick coating. The soft nature of it also means it’s flexible. These three factors combined means I wouldn’t be surprised if the friction around the grommets don’t hold it in place as well as they do with other strings. If you haven’t come across it, the price to performance ratio for a multi is very hard to beat.

    I think I’m due to pick up a couple of racquets tonight that require poly in them, so I’ll also observe that and update with whether it behaves differently. Certainly, I don’t hear the tension head in the same way when stringing with poly (which is the tension head visibly moving those couple of mm).

    It definitely isn’t taking 10-15 seconds to get back to reference on the display. We’re talking a second, two if we’re being particularly generous.
     
    #31
  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Set your tension and forget it. String the racket, play the racket, and adjust tension for feel. It really is just that simple once you find the racket and string you like.

    Even the pros do that. They hand over there racket to someone they can trust to get the tension right, then adjust for conditions.
     
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  33. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    I agree. I think I'll sell my rig and start stringing with a dowel and a couple of awls. Damn those kids!!
     
    #33
  34. marsh

    marsh Rookie

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    This behavior is 100% normal. The adjustment is due to post-tensioning stretch. Us guys that string Kev/Zyex have become obsessed with pre-stretching to help alleviate this effect. The amount of movement you experience will be dependent upon the string. Stretchier strings will move more, stiff strings less. Prestretch and possibly speed will also help. Develop a consistent method and forget about it.

    P.S. even my Bairdo does this.
     
    #34
  35. loosegroove

    loosegroove Hall of Fame

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    Looks like it's time to update that sig!
     
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  36. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Strung a couple with poly today. There was no additional movement on the display when I released the clamp.
     
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  37. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Pressed the wrong button...
     
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  38. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Can I keep my WISE plugged in when I'm not using it? It looks like it has plenty of surge protection in the cord.
     
    #38
  39. Wes

    Wes Semi-Pro

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    Exactly. :D
    All those "smiles" (or "frowns"), that I have to bear witness to, drive me nuts.

    You're certainly not wrong.
    The Wise won't do a thing to make you dominate the competition... it merely makes stringing more pleasurable/more consistent/less taxing.

    I NEVER do. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I certainly don't want to find out the hard way.:eek:
    I have zero interest in potentially becoming the new owner of a $600+ paperweight. Absolutely none whatsoever.
     
    #39
  40. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

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    One of these days I am going to have to try stringing on a ECP. On a racket I am familiar with I normally string them in about 20-25 minutes from cutting out old string to completion. The only thing that intrigues me is this "alleged" higher off the machine tension you get with an ECP compared to using a LO like my NEOS 1000. I probably string on average only 5 rackets a week, so am not seriously thinking of spending money on a Wise. I need to try out more string.

    Just getting organized:)
    [​IMG]
     
    #40
  41. Wes

    Wes Semi-Pro

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    @graycrait,
    You need to try out more string?
    I think you should go with the woodie that's buried at the bottom of that pile... full bed of poly... probably full bed of RPM Blast... or even 4G... at like #74. :p

    What is the spray can that's in the tool tray? A nice shade of Krylon?

    You got enough stuff there?
    You know what you really need... some rope.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  42. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I don’t think there should be no matter what type string you’re using.
     
    #42
  43. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    @Muppet, my answer is to set it on 3 and forget it. You're not going to see any difference in the string bed. :)

    I was advised to purchase a surge protector for the Mighty Sensor and did. I did not have one on my Wise and I think it did take a hit, although I was stringing ZX so it might have been the string that made it go goofy. In any event I sent my old unit in for a check up and they tuned it up. A surge protector isn't a lot of money and it gives you peace of mind.

    Be careful not to go down the road I and so many on the boards have....it's OverthinkIt Lane. :) Just trust your stringing gear, put the strings in, and worry solely about your play.

    This is the surge protector I bought:

    https://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocket...surge-protector-black/4689063.p?skuId=4689063
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
    #43
  44. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You should not do that. Those converters are notorious for going bad and the longer they are in use the faster they fail. A converter will continue to draw power (although very small) as long as AC is applied. Any appliance that is permanently connect to power is a fire hazard ask any fireman.

    In my stringing room I connected the bottom AC outlet to my light switch so when the switch is off power is off. I connected a surge protected power strip to the outlet and my stringer to the power strip. After stringing if I forget to switch off power strip when I turn off the light it goes off anyway.
     
    #44
  45. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Okay thanks. I'll unplug it when I'm not stringing.
     
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  46. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    @Irvin, are your lighting circuits protected by Earth Leakage Dectectors (they may be called Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers or ELCBs in your part ot the world)?

    In some places it is not a Mandatory Safety Requirement to protect lighting circuits with ELCBs.

    If you are connecting a Power circuit to a Lighting circuit that isn't protected by an ELCB then you are potentially exposing yourself to an electric shock risk.
     
    #46
  47. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Don't think so
     
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  48. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

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    One of my experiments, spraying this stuff on string. Seems to help temporarily and liked to use it on old grommets prior to stringing, but tended to produce too much overspray so I quit using it.

    [​IMG]
     
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