Got whooped by a 55 year old pusher in my first tournament match

Curtennis said:
How old are you? How was a 55 year old able to get to everything? I’m thinking he wasn’t the only pusher on the court.
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I’m a 57 year old 5.0 player (11 WTN) and usually don’t tire before my 20s opponents do. I stay in shape and have a better diet than most kids that age. Pushers are tricky players that are defined by their consistency and ability to use better players pace well. I just hit forcing shots and finish at net. Also, they tend to hate lack of pace so I give them that often too.
 
ChrisJR3264 said:
I mean I go into the match attacking my opponents weakness. I guess folks have definitions of pushers. My style is a bit mixed. Mostly an attacking baseliner who’s developed a net game and improved coverage on volleying.

My definition of a pusher is one who just hits moonballs and doesn’t go for any shots. Counter punchers at the rec level don’t focus on generating pace but redirecting and aiming for placement with decent pace.

Why I love tennis. Mentally and physically refreshing. Always got to re-formulate strategy.

Glad to see you folks out there in your 50s and 60s still playing.
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I have played a ton of matches from 3.5 up to 4.5 and have honestly never played anyone who just hits moonballs. Occasionally will play people who get everything back and don’t really have any offensive weapons.

I asked OP to describe this “pusher” but he never did.

People who get everything back expose the true level weaknesses and strengths of their opponent.
 
netlets said:
I’m a 57 year old 5.0 player (11 WTN) and usually don’t tire before my 20s opponents do. I stay in shape and have a better diet than most kids that age. Pushers are tricky players that are defined by their consistency and ability to use better players pace well. I just hit forcing shots and finish at net. Also, they tend to hate lack of pace so I give them that often too.
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I’m a 4.5 player and play in a ladder. Played a guy near your age slightly younger. Man had clean strokes and solid serve. Definitely maintained his level of play.
 
Pass750 said:
I have played a ton of matches from 3.5 up to 4.5 and have honestly never played anyone who just hits moonballs. Occasionally will play people who get everything back and don’t really have any offensive weapons.

I asked OP to describe this “pusher” but he never did.

People who get everything back expose the true level weaknesses and strengths of their opponent.
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Hmm idk - I feel like folks who are pushers/moo ballers in their 20s/30’s from my experience : they have 3.5 level ground strokes and pace. But some how beat players who have better mechanics and no patience.

Key to beating those players is patience bc they’re going to make you want to rip the slow balls back from the baseline. Just wait for the right short ball. Usually heavy top spin deep to the middle forces a shorter ball for you to start coming in and working the corners/angles.
 
Curtennis said:
Except he wasn’t a pusher or if he was you were one too. At 55 you cannot be getting every left sideline, right sideline, drop shot, lob etc. You posted to talk ****

Hit the ball better and he won’t be a “pusher”
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You can if those shots were pushed.
 
netlets said:
I’m a 57 year old 5.0 player (11 WTN) and usually don’t tire before my 20s opponents do. I stay in shape and have a better diet than most kids that age. Pushers are tricky players that are defined by their consistency and ability to use better players pace well. I just hit forcing shots and finish at net. Also, they tend to hate lack of pace so I give them that often too.
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You are an absolute monster in that case. If you routinely outlast those 30 years younger than you, you’re the exception and not the rule. I’d also be bragging on the internet if that was the case for me. Well done!

I just know from experience if I slice serve out wide and then hit the next one opposite sideline I can generally win the point against those 50+ as long as I’m hitting with pace myself.
 
You're not a real tennis player if you haven't spent 40 minutes returning forehand slice from an old man with a "short back" and gout. One set. He beat my ass 5-7. I had allergies. My dog died that morning. Half a decade ago... I've never been the same. I miss my youth. I'm still young but it's not the same.
 
netlets said:
I’m a 57 year old 5.0 player (11 WTN) and usually don’t tire before my 20s opponents do. I stay in shape and have a better diet than most kids that age. Pushers are tricky players that are defined by their consistency and ability to use better players pace well. I just hit forcing shots and finish at net. Also, they tend to hate lack of pace so I give them that often too.
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Similar here - mid-50's and 5.0, and in good shape, at least cardio wise. However where I feel my age most is on speed of recovery to neutral position between shots. Or more accurately, lack thereof.

Hit heavy into the corners against me and I will get to the ball... once or twice... but will end up giving up too much court. I've had to become more aggressive earlier in the points to compensate - take the initiative before my opponent can.

That's what's curious about the OP's opponent - mid 50's and a pusher/retriever is not a recipe for success IMO.

Curtennis said:
I just know from experience if I slice serve out wide and then hit the next one opposite sideline I can generally win the point against those 50+ as long as I’m hitting with pace myself.
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Yeah that would definitely be the way to play against me. If my opponent hits a good serve and then the +1 into the other corner, I can get there but can't recover back into the court fast enough.
My counter strategy is to gamble with being super aggressive on the return, hope I can get lucky and string a few together to break, and then focus on holding my own serve.
 
The few times where someone on tt forum has actually dared to post video of a match where they claim to have lost to a pusher, one or both of the below things jump out:

The opponent is not a pusher.

The complainer’s own strokes/style of play are nothing special or aggressive enough for them to complain about the other person.
 
mcs1970 said:
The few times where someone on tt forum has actually dared to post video of a match where they claim to have lost to a pusher, one or both of the below things jump out:

The opponent is not a pusher.

The complainer’s own strokes/style of play are nothing special or aggressive enough for them to complain about the other person.
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Bingo! Still waiting for OP to explain to us how exactly his opponent was a pusher.
 
mcs1970 said:
The few times where someone on tt forum has actually dared to post video of a match where they claim to have lost to a pusher, one or both of the below things jump out:

The opponent is not a pusher.

The complainer’s own strokes/style of play are nothing special or aggressive enough for them to complain about the other person.
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Agreed. Honestly at some point or another you’ll lose to a pusher lol. It’s happened to me a couple times. Mentally being stupid to continue to hit aggressive shots when I was over hitting and not correcting my footwork and the key there was being impatient bc you literally hate that style lol.

Some people either don’t hit as aggressive to push them back or they try to over hit from the baseline thinking they can rip the easy winner from the baseline balls that are high bouncing and slow. Can’t do that either.

If you want want to end points - bring them to the net or continue to hit deep ground strokes at a solid penetrating pace until you can attack. Works almost any time for me anymore.

I won’t disrespect a pushing strategy. If you win and tick off your opponent - then great.
 
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ChrisJR3264 said:
Agreed. Honestly at some point or another you’ll lose to a pusher lol. It’s happened to me a couple times. Mentally being stupid to continue to hit aggressive shots when I was over hitting and not correcting my footwork and the key there was being impatient bc you literally hate that style lol.

Some people either don’t hit as aggressive to push them back or they try to over hit from the baseline thinking they can rip the easy winner from the baseline balls that are high bouncing and slow. Can’t do that either.

If you want want to end points - bring them to the net or continue to hit deep ground strokes at a solid penetrating pace until you can attack. Works almost any time for me anymore.

I won’t disrespect a pushing strategy. If you win and tick off your opponent - then great.
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Sure be patient, if you can defend and stay in points.
And although you are hinting at it with your "hit deep ground strokes at a solid penentrating pace", I agree more with:
Chalkdust said:
However where I feel my age most is on speed of recovery to neutral position between shots. Or more accurately, lack thereof.

I've had to become more aggressive earlier in the points to compensate - take the initiative before my opponent can.

My counter strategy is to gamble with being super aggressive on the return, hope I can get lucky and string a few together to break, and then focus on holding my own serve.
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After listening every guy I knew that played the same guy then watching the same guys lose in tourneys decided to hit the ball down-the-middle deep and let the pusher make errors. The Pushed became a pusher. Punished became The Punisher using paper cuts. Stick a pin in and pop that bubble.
 
Yamin said:
Being insecure about the word pusher and trying to woke that term up is pretty crazy. A pusher is someone who gets every ball back safely and creates no offensive pressure. Only derogatory if someone called you one 10 years ago.
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Oh, I call them pushers even if they create moderate offensive pressure and can put short balls away.
 
pico said:
Played my first tournament match last night and it was a humbling one. I played a 55 year old pusher who just got everything back. It made me realise how unfit, inconsistent and impatient I am. It also made me realise that if I am to play more tournaments, I will probably encounter pushers more than often. So my plan forward is to incorporate playing pushers at least once in 2 weeks.
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Played my 764th tournament match last night 35 year old attacker who just hit everything out. It made me realise how unfit, inconsistent and impatient beginners are. It also made me realise that if I am to play more tournaments, I will probably encounter beginners, so my plan forward is to continue hitting the ball in a controlled manner and winning matches.
 
Yamin said:
Being insecure about the word pusher and trying to woke that term up is pretty crazy. A pusher is someone who gets every ball back safely and creates no offensive pressure. Only derogatory if someone called you one 10 years ago.
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Smile when someone calls you a pusher. Usually they just lost
 
Playing pushers is always a unique challenge. The “if it works, it works” mentality is associated a lot with people who use very simple tactics to win against low level players. The bunt, the junk slice, the moonball. They’re all low risk, low reward shots and the pushers greatest asset is always their legs.

If I were the OP I’d get the guys number and ask to play games/sets until you figure out how to impose yourself on him. And keep in mind, he probably has other tactics you haven’t seen yet.
 
MisterP said:
Playing pushers is always a unique challenge. The “if it works, it works” mentality is associated a lot with people who use very simple tactics to win against low level players. The bunt, the junk slice, the moonball. They’re all low risk, low reward shots and the pushers greatest asset is always their legs.

If I were the OP I’d get the guys number and ask to play games/sets until you figure out how to impose yourself on him. And keep in mind, he probably has other tactics you haven’t seen yet.
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Still, the match is most likely on your racquet.
OP, play like Sabelenka, hit with pace, but with margins.
 
Fintft said:
Still, the match is most likely on your racquet.
OP, play like Sabelenka, hit with pace, but with margins.
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Usually. But sometimes you come up against someone who knows how to adapt. They can reconfigure their game to one that hurts you more. The sabotage approach. It can involve pushing but not always.

The term “pusher” should really be used for players who have no other strategies. Because most decent players can “push” the ball if they need to (injury, fatigue, boredom, desire to troll opp).
 
MisterP said:
Usually. But sometimes you come up against someone who knows how to adapt. They can reconfigure their game to one that hurts you more. The sabotage approach. It can involve pushing but not always.

The term “pusher” should really be used for players who have no other strategies. Because most decent players can “push” the ball if they need to (injury, fatigue, boredom, desire to troll opp).
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Yes, but wouldn't you agree that a power player (Sabalenka and the likes) usually plays her game, iregardless of what the opponent does? The exception seem to be the likes of Rublev and Sorana Carstea, who under the influences of new coaches, started to build the point more and defend.
 
The problem is that people don't build the point, don't use any strategy and as soon as the ball is in play try to win with one shot, then the opponent defends that shot and maybe the next one and he's a pusher. If you have patience and play a strategy, a good defensive player can be beaten but rec player want to end points as soon as they start and that's where the good defensive player thrives.
 
Fintft said:
Yes, but wouldn't you agree that a power player (Sabalenka and the likes) usually plays her game, iregardless of what the opponent does? The exception seem to be the likes of Rublev and Sorana Carstea, who under the influences of new coaches, started to build the point more and defend.
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For sure. Plan A for Sabalenka is Bash it. Plans B, C, D and E are “See Plan A”.
 
Pass750 said:
Pusher is a derogatory term and the person describing their opponent as such frequently can’t admit their weaknesses and resorts to rationalize this by calling their opponent a pusher. This might not be the case here.

Did you ever consider he only needed what he needed to do to beat you by keeping the ball in and letting you self destruct? May have had more weapons that he didn’t even have to use. Getting everything back doesn’t make them a pusher, it makes them a good player.
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No you're completely wrong, whether pusher is derogatory or not 100% depends on whether the person intended it to be or not. Its all about intent. Pusher isn't automaically a dirty word it means someone who generally just tries to get every ball back in the court defensively.
 
pico said:
This thread highlights a major issue in society today. Instead of encouraging a guy who just played his first tournament match, some of you choose to bash him cos he used the term "pusher". Such a polarised society we live in. Its truly sad. I just wanted to share a special moment with this tennis community but it was a mistake.
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When the masses are at each others throats its easier for the scum to loot the coffers and corrupt the girls into opening their skirts wide.
 
Most of us who start late and genuinely want to play decent topspin strokes, can do it with practice. However our topspin strokes don’t have the bite or placement of people doing it for a long time. So someone across the net who is reasonably fit can get to the ball and manage to keep it in play even with bunty looking strokes. So this leads to frustration because we think we are trying to do the right things to progress but are not posing much of a problem to the guy across the net who could not care less about anything related to long term progress.


I have developed a good topspin 2hbh but directional control is not great. Meanwhile, I can now place the ball on a dime either down the line or cross court with a slice/underspin ohbh that I can disguise well till the last second. So that stays. On the fh side I am trying to get to the same point where I can disguise where I go till the last second.

Unless you have some deception or power to make a fit defensive player at your level uncomfortable, you will continue to lose to those types. Just being consistent with good looking aimless topspin strokes is not enough. There has to be an intent about either control and/or power.
 
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What a crap feeling it is. You warm up with a guy before a tournament match and he is stroking the backhand forehand. Then the first point and he junks 10 slices and 2 moonballs at you. Ughh. Going to be a long one looks like. Then you gotta go to the car to get your hard hat. Work to do.

I always am trying to improve. So for me playing these type of guys I always work hard on my foot work and putting away short balls.
 
Search MEP pusher on YouTube. High 4.5 pusher in Atlanta. He game exposes all weakness and gives reality checks. Quite humbling really
 
Chalkdust said:
Similar here - mid-50's and 5.0, and in good shape, at least cardio wise. However where I feel my age most is on speed of recovery to neutral position between shots. Or more accurately, lack thereof.

Hit heavy into the corners against me and I will get to the ball... once or twice... but will end up giving up too much court. I've had to become more aggressive earlier in the points to compensate - take the initiative before my opponent can.

That's what's curious about the OP's opponent - mid 50's and a pusher/retriever is not a recipe for success IMO.


Yeah that would definitely be the way to play against me. If my opponent hits a good serve and then the +1 into the other corner, I can get there but can't recover back into the court fast enough.
My counter strategy is to gamble with being super aggressive on the return, hope I can get lucky and string a few together to break, and then focus on holding my own serve.
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I agree - I am not nearly as quick as the college players I hit with - two of which are my sons. We are all pretty similar in ability, with my oldest son being the toughest to beat. They are both so quick on the court and their court coverage is amazing. My kids also hit the ball consistently harder than I do, although when I go for winners they are just as hard. Part of the reason for being slower is that I protect my knees. They get a bit achy on hardcourt at times and I don't want to get injured. So it's not just the fact that I am slower, which I am but not by too much if I go all out, but also the fact that I am tentative in and out of the corners unless I'm on clay. The young kids can be overpowering with their first serves and plus ones - I agree.
 
Curtennis said:
You are an absolute monster in that case. If you routinely outlast those 30 years younger than you, you’re the exception and not the rule. I’d also be bragging on the internet if that was the case for me. Well done!

I just know from experience if I slice serve out wide and then hit the next one opposite sideline I can generally win the point against those 50+ as long as I’m hitting with pace myself.
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Don't mean to brag, just felt like I was being indirectly railed on because of my age. ;) I have a modern game too, so I match up pretty well with the younger kids. I have a semi western and use variety. I find the biggest difference when the temps are in the 50s or lower, my body is much stiffer than it used to be. That's when I'm extra careful because my tweaks happen mostly when it's cold.
 
MisterP said:
Poor Denis. He looks great doing it though and that counts for something.
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And unlike Alcaraz (who defends too much, being afraid to attack all the time), he probably doesn't risk as many injuries...
Even Courrier praise Shapo as being an "artist" :) But he also said that "were Shapo to dial down his expression from 10 to 6, he'd be in top 10".
Tennis being a sports of errors, alas.
 
netlets said:
I agree - I am not nearly as quick as the college players I hit with - two of which are my sons. We are all pretty similar in ability, with my oldest son being the toughest to beat. They are both so quick on the court and their court coverage is amazing. My kids also hit the ball consistently harder than I do, although when I go for winners they are just as hard. Part of the reason for being slower is that I protect my knees. They get a bit achy on hardcourt at times and I don't want to get injured. So it's not just the fact that I am slower, which I am but not by too much if I go all out, but also the fact that I am tentative in and out of the corners unless I'm on clay. The young kids can be overpowering with their first serves and plus ones - I agree.
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Too bad you can't play on clay year around. Since you can't really change directions abrubptly on clay, less chances of injury due to stress put by inertia on your joints.
 
Got whooped by a pusher tonight. Drop shot short then lob deep all night long.

The worst part is it made me start pushing back to win the second set :sick:

But I wasn't good enough to win the tiebreak.
 
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