Steffi Graf and Justine Henin are 2 of my all time favorite players. How do you think the two would match up in their primes. Obviously Steffi is the greater player but would Henin with her superior backhand, volleying, and variety be able to trouble Steffi at all. On grass Graf would probably romp. What about on hard courts, indoors, or clay though.
Graf and Henin in their primes playing each other?
- Thread starter Trillus
- Start date
President of Serve/Volley
Semi-Pro
Steffi backhand and volleys are much better than Henin...
This is a little bit over the top.
This is a little bit over the top.
Actually, I think Henin's game would trouble her. Her weapons are not that dissimilar to ones Gabby used so well to frustrate Graf. but Henin was far more mentally strong and had n o problems hanging tough in long matches. Henin also moved better than Sabatini, but as always, the whole match hinges on that forehand going in or out.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Henin would trouble her, but saying her Backhand and Volleys are superior, I really don't know about that. Steffi was a solid net player, just because she didn't come in all that often doesn't mean she couldn't play it. And even though henin would Volley, Steffi was great at countering net play, she grew up playing Martina and was able to go toe to toe with her, so Henin's volleying? I don't think would do a lot to really scare Steffi all that much. I think Henin could surprise, but overwhelm her with it, no.
As for the Backhands, thats a close argument, Steffi's was effective, and Henin could easily fall into the trap of trying to over hit it. Henin had a good backhand, but I think Steffi had more control over hers, and in the long run that is a slight edge to Steffi. Graf's wasn't hit hard, but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective. It would be an interesting matchup of shots, but I don't think its blatantly obvious that Henin's is superior, and if it is its not blow you away superior.
As for the matchup, Henin wouldn't do well at all against Grass, maybe on the grass of today but if you stuck her against Graf at Wimbledon in the early 90's, I don't think the result would be all that pretty. Clay would be interesting, but I give the edge to Steffi, Henin has been helped on clay by weaker competition, she is still great on dirt at her best, but Steffi was winning Frenches against stronger competition and I think would hold the edge. I'd like to see these 2 on a hardcourt personally, both were strong but it was neither of their absolute best surfaces, and I think they would be able to put on a great show. out of 10 on surfaces I'd probably put it like this
Grass: Steffi 8-2 or 9-1
Clay: Steffi 7-3 or 6-4
Hard Steffi 6-4 or possibly even, its hard to call I think its closer here than some might give Henin credit for.
As Bturner said, Henin would definitely frustrate Steffi with her variety, she could be mentally tough (although I could see Steffi turning it into a running game if that came up in which case I don't like Henin's chances), it would be interesting, but overall I would say Graf>>>Henin in a H2H no matter what random combination of surfaces you had them play on.
As for the Backhands, thats a close argument, Steffi's was effective, and Henin could easily fall into the trap of trying to over hit it. Henin had a good backhand, but I think Steffi had more control over hers, and in the long run that is a slight edge to Steffi. Graf's wasn't hit hard, but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective. It would be an interesting matchup of shots, but I don't think its blatantly obvious that Henin's is superior, and if it is its not blow you away superior.
As for the matchup, Henin wouldn't do well at all against Grass, maybe on the grass of today but if you stuck her against Graf at Wimbledon in the early 90's, I don't think the result would be all that pretty. Clay would be interesting, but I give the edge to Steffi, Henin has been helped on clay by weaker competition, she is still great on dirt at her best, but Steffi was winning Frenches against stronger competition and I think would hold the edge. I'd like to see these 2 on a hardcourt personally, both were strong but it was neither of their absolute best surfaces, and I think they would be able to put on a great show. out of 10 on surfaces I'd probably put it like this
Grass: Steffi 8-2 or 9-1
Clay: Steffi 7-3 or 6-4
Hard Steffi 6-4 or possibly even, its hard to call I think its closer here than some might give Henin credit for.
As Bturner said, Henin would definitely frustrate Steffi with her variety, she could be mentally tough (although I could see Steffi turning it into a running game if that came up in which case I don't like Henin's chances), it would be interesting, but overall I would say Graf>>>Henin in a H2H no matter what random combination of surfaces you had them play on.
Boredone, I like your breakdowns on this. The primary keys to beating Steffi, is movement and great defense. You have to be able to run down three or four of those forehands and send your replies DEEP or keep them out of her comfort hitting zone. Henin can do that. She was one of those rarest of women who could return Serena's or Davenports bullets from either wing. I still think Graf wins more often than not.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Henin could definitely do that, it would just be a matter of how well her defense matches up against Steffi's movement and varied offense. I think a lot of people would be quick to throw Henin out the window compared to Steffi, and I used to be one of them, but looking at it, Henin definitely could give Steffi a lot of trouble. She would pester her like Gabby and Arantxa could, but in the long run I really don't know how many times she could actually beat her. Henin hits really deep shots, and is good at turning defense into offense fairly quickly. In Addition to the things you mentioned another thing she would need to do is that, and she would need to be able to think on the fly and try to wrongfoot Steffi as much as possible. Just deep returns and good defense wouldn't be enough, Steffi's movement could overcome that, if she could pin and trip Steffi up, that would help. I don't know, its interesting for sure. I always enjoyed Watching Graf and Gabby duke it out, and like you said, Henin is a better version of Gabby in many ways, I think if Henin kept her head on straight (she can lose it in matches although not to the degree Gabby did) she would make Graf work to beat her.
Joe Pike
Banned
Sabatini in her single best Wimbledon year of about 10.
Sanchez in her two best Wimbledons years of about 12.
But both had easy losses to Graf in other years.
And if they had had to play Graf in Wimbledon every year they would have had many more clear losses.
Look, even Mirjana Lucic took Graf to a closely fought three setter in Wimbledon (99). But what does this really say?
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
It would be competitive, but, clearly, Graf is the better player.
IMHO, Graf is the woman's Federer. Her forehand may have been the best single shot in woman's tennis history. And she used it to full advantage. Henin has a great ground game and a big serve for her size. But, Graf's forehand was better than any shot Henin has. Her serve was as good or better than Henin's, her net game was better than Henin's, she was mentally tougher than Henin, and she was quicker than Henin. The only advantage Henin has over Graf is her backhand, and only because it's more of a weapon. Graf could certainly defend well with her backhand, and could keep it in play all day long.
I can see prime Graf beating prime Henin at least 2 out of 3, maybe 3 out of 4 matches on any surface.
IMHO, Graf is the woman's Federer. Her forehand may have been the best single shot in woman's tennis history. And she used it to full advantage. Henin has a great ground game and a big serve for her size. But, Graf's forehand was better than any shot Henin has. Her serve was as good or better than Henin's, her net game was better than Henin's, she was mentally tougher than Henin, and she was quicker than Henin. The only advantage Henin has over Graf is her backhand, and only because it's more of a weapon. Graf could certainly defend well with her backhand, and could keep it in play all day long.
I can see prime Graf beating prime Henin at least 2 out of 3, maybe 3 out of 4 matches on any surface.
Last edited:
It is interesting people seem to have such a high opinion of Graf's net game. I personally didnt see that. Having a more proficient and reliable net game would have helped her a great deal in her rivalries with pre 31 year old Navratilova and pre stabbing Seles, where she could have taken the net from Martina and avoided endless baseline duels with Seles, yet she was reluctant to use it with any confidence.
Technically her volleys looked very good, maybe even better than Henin who I consider quite a good volleyer. However it doesnt matter much when she isnt willing to go except sometimes to put away sitting ducks, and when she seems uncomfortable and unsure of herself when she does go in.
Technically her volleys looked very good, maybe even better than Henin who I consider quite a good volleyer. However it doesnt matter much when she isnt willing to go except sometimes to put away sitting ducks, and when she seems uncomfortable and unsure of herself when she does go in.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
If you're referring to my comments, perhaps you've confused my saying that Graf's net game being better than Henin's net game with Graf being a great net player. I didn't say or imply that. There is a lot of space between Henin's net game and a great net game, and Graf's net game falls into that space, IMHO! Note that I compared Graf to Federer who, although he is as good at net as anyone playing today, certainly is not a great net player by historical standards. That's my opinion of Graf's net game as well.
Futher, it's indisputable than Navratilova was the greatest net player the woman's game has ever had, and that, there are at least a dozen women players from the 60's and 70's who were much more comfortable and more able to finish points and win matches from the net than Graf. I was just explaining why I thought Graf was the better player than Henin, why she would win most of the matches between them, and having a superior net game is just one of the factors that weigh in Graf's favor.
Last edited:
Steffi's problem would be her unforced errors on the forehand side. If Henin is quick enough and has enough variety/ depth that weapon can break down. Henin had superb return and handled pace very well off the ground. No one is arguing Graf would not win the majority, but I just don't think it is as decisive as some.
Joe Pike
Banned
As a matter of fact that would not exactly be "Fräulein Forehands" problem.
On the contrary - I think her forehand would be Henin's problem.
As it was a problem for almost all players Steffi played.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
I gotta agree. Grafs Problem would be with her backhand. If Henin figured out the right amount of pace to hit it back with then Graf could be in trouble. Graf's forehand would be her main offense weapon against Henin, I don't see the error's Graf making with it as a huge problem since I could see her hitting way more winners off it and definitely enough to make up the difference, and Henin would probably hit plenty of errors trying to return the Graf forehand anyway. Graf's backhand would be her biggest liability, but given Graf's forehand, her movement, her athletic ability and everything else she did so well even if her backhand came under attack I don't think it would be enough for henin to win. Henin would beat graf a few times out of 10 I believe, but Graf would still have enough to own her the majority of the time.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
Henin in her prime would certainly give graf all she could handle. Steffi also played in a very weak era -seles.. Players like henin, davenport, both williams, clisters, comeback capriati, would all gave steffi a match and some would beat her.
I dont think Capriati would give Steffi any problems at all. Steffi is 10-1 vs here. I am not sure about Clijsters either. Her game style is too neutral to cause Graf too many problems I think. Venus, Serena, Henin, and Davenport I agree could have all given her some trouble though.
BevelDevil
Hall of Fame
Henin is the woman's Federer. Her forehand is technically very similar to Fed's and she gets very good results with it (particularly for such a small person). And her backhand drive is probably technically superior to Fed's.
I give Henin an edge on hardcourt and clay. Her forehand is competitive with Graf's, if not better. Backhand, Henin has the edge.
Joe Pike
Banned
racquetfreak
Semi-Pro
prime seles would beat prime henin and prime graf and maybe even prime serena >>50% of the time. alexander the great trumps julius caesar. tigers beat lions. t. rex beats allosaurus. ET beats gremlims. i could beat m tyson in his prime (at chess).
what ifs are kinda fun when you don't have anything important to think about. my favorite what if is who would have had the better record if their primes were not destroyed by tragedy - Mo Connolly or Monica?
what ifs are kinda fun when you don't have anything important to think about. my favorite what if is who would have had the better record if their primes were not destroyed by tragedy - Mo Connolly or Monica?
Last edited:
Joe Pike
Banned
Prime #1 Seles in her two best years ever (1991/92) lost 3 of 4 matches to a slumping Graf, her only win being a 10-8 in the third set.
Thanks.
racquetfreak
Semi-Pro
good point - but i would say graf was close to prime similar to current federer and that seles was just starting to reach prime. i consider graf to be the greatest female player (which explains my large collection of graf rackets) barring what ifs. henin for me does not enter the list of female greats above 7 or 8
Connolly by FAR. Connolly was unbeatable on all surfaces already, Seles was not. Connolly destroyed her biggest rivals on a regular basis, Seles did not. And Connolly was playing at a level that would not be approached by other women until into the next decade. Seles would see her power overtaken by multiple women later in the decade.
Connolly would probably have won about 35 slams without the cripping accident. Only not more since she didnt choose to play every slam as was custom back then. Seles might have gotten to 15 if lucky, probably not even that.
And the only one you listed who I would give peak Seles the edge over is peak Henin, due to Seles being a bad matchup for Henin probably. Peak Graf of 87-89 and 93-96 would regularly beat peak Seles, with Seles maybe scoring some wins on rebound ace or clay only. The difference in their levels of play can be explained by such stats as the # of losses Graf lost in a year, all Seles problems with the rest of the top 5 compared to Graf, Seles's failures at Wimbledon, all the sets Seles losses to sometimes obscure opponents, etc.... And while Serena's #s dont tell the tale the same way a peak Serena would be too powerful and athletic for Seles most of the time. Seles would need to count on days Serena was making alot of unforced errors, which would come, to score her wins. And probably again would need to be a slower court, otherwise Serena's power would overwhelm her.
Last edited:
Guys I think you are misconstruing my point. No one had success over Graf by 'avoiding' the forehand wing and working over that backhand. You can't be frightened of hitting into two thirds of the court and expect to win. The question becomes how to to safely hit there when you need and induce a penalty as some compensation for the winners and forcing play that are inevitable. When Steffi's timing is on, you can't. It does not matter the surface or the opponent. It explains those lobsided sets Graf had over absolutely everyone including Seles, Sabatini and Sanchez. Sometimes that timing would go off. That explained many of those lost sets. If you are very fast, anticipate well if you can retrieve some those forehands, and keep her further back or out of her ideal hitting zone, you get to use the whole court. Too many players had to forego their own game, because they could only afford to hit into a sliver or were afraid not to. I am not suggesting that anyone NOT play the backhand of Graf. Playing the backhand wing is a prudent tactic against Steffi insofar as it bides time until an opponent sees an opportunity for something better. That slice was severe, steady and accurate but you could hang in the point a while until you either hit it wide, avoiding the forehand or too short.
Last edited:
Warriorroger
Hall of Fame
I also have all her rackets, great to read!
Joe Pike
Banned
In 1991/92 Steffi had a 5-match losing streak against Sabatini. And she lost 3 matches against Novotna within in 13 months. Her only losses to Novotna in 31 matches. No, Steffi was not in prime form in that time. Far inferior to her vintage 1988/89 years.
But she beat Seles in 3 of 4 matches in 1991/92.
Wonder how a prime 1988/89 Steffi would have played against Seles.
Joe Pike
Banned
Henin, a better forehand than Graf? Prove it.
Otherwise, we know what you are doing here.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
True, I just don't know if Henin would be able to draw a ton of Errors on the Graf Forehand. I'm not saying Henin should avoid hitting to it, you can't, and if your timid of it than your going to get clobbered 1 and 2 or something like that. But I don't know how well Henin would do at Drawing errors off the Graf forehand. Henin's anticipation is great, but even if she hit it into what she might think is out of Grafs ideal wheelhouse for that forehand, Graf's amazing movement could still get her there, and even outside of her wheelhouse that forehand could still be massive. I don't know, the Graf forehand was a problem for every single lady she played, and most who actually tried to go toe to toe with it struggled. Davenport in the late 90's, Pierce in that one match, and a few others could do enough damage to it to win, but I don't know.
I guess what I am trying to say in a very longwinded fashion is that the balance of when to try and force Graf into forehand errors and when to play a little more safe is a very difficult question to answer. Henin would probably lose quite a few matches trying to figure out how to answer it. I mean, you could either completely crush it with power (like Pierce sort of did in 1994, but Graf wasn't playing all that well that day to begin with), go a Wozniacki route and just wait and pray Graf would screw up (bad idea) or try to find the dead zone where Graf struggles, and that wasn't very big. I think most of Henin's winners would be likely to come off the backhand, but your right, she would need to figure out a way from keeping Graf from Unleashing her forehand. I just don't know exactly what the answer to that, for henin, would be, not that any method for doing it is perfect, we are talking Graf
The strategic brilliance of Graf's game and really any game built around a forehand as effective and versatile as Graf's (e.g., Federer and Nadal) is that it leaves very few openings for the opponent. Even what you think may be an opening may not be an opening at all. Let me explain.
Let's take the general scenario where Steffi is hitting forehands from the backhand corner, inside-out.
The call was often to beat her by hitting a backhand down the line. Easier said than done. First of all, because dtl backhands are not a high percentage shot. Second of all, because Graf's tempo (slice to flat bounce) is such that you can't really get into a groove on the backhand side. Finally, because, the sidespin and placement of an inside out forehand is not conducive to a backhand dtl. The ball is tailing away from you just as you are trying to line up the shot.
So, if the best you can do against Steffi is to hit a low-percentage shot in the best of circumstances, Steffi wins most of the time.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
I think most agree that Graf wins most of the time in this battle. Graf of course had the better forehand and I think the better serve and speed.
Henin is really not weak in any area but she doesn't have the overpowering strengths of Graf. Henin has a more powerful backhand drive but Graf's slice backhand is a very very very consistent shot that is hard to attack. Graf is capable of hitting a good topspin backhand but she didn't use it that much.
I think Henin would be able to adapt well to the Graf power and speed. I'm basing this on how well she has done against powerful hitters like Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Lindsay Davenport, Maria Sharapova and Kim Clijsters. So while I think Graf wins most of the time I do think Henin will generally give Graf a battle and win some matches.
To put their careers in perspective, Henin and Graf both have 115 losses their careers. The difference is that in order to match Steffi Graf's amount of wins Henin would have to win her next 375 matches in a row!
Henin's career won-lost is 525-115 and Graf's is 900-115.
Henin is really not weak in any area but she doesn't have the overpowering strengths of Graf. Henin has a more powerful backhand drive but Graf's slice backhand is a very very very consistent shot that is hard to attack. Graf is capable of hitting a good topspin backhand but she didn't use it that much.
I think Henin would be able to adapt well to the Graf power and speed. I'm basing this on how well she has done against powerful hitters like Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Lindsay Davenport, Maria Sharapova and Kim Clijsters. So while I think Graf wins most of the time I do think Henin will generally give Graf a battle and win some matches.
To put their careers in perspective, Henin and Graf both have 115 losses their careers. The difference is that in order to match Steffi Graf's amount of wins Henin would have to win her next 375 matches in a row!
Henin's career won-lost is 525-115 and Graf's is 900-115.
Last edited:
Warriorroger
Hall of Fame
The topspin backhand in Graf's armoury is really overrated. Who's to say she would have won more with it. I personally don't think so. Her slice and its effect is higly underrated.
Not sure if 'overrated' is the right word. I think most of the problems I saw or read about had something to do with her not having used it enough to groove the stroke in any particular match. It was predictable and not quite as accurate as it could have been. It had plenty of pop and worked well as a change of pace in rallies. She could have worked it in a little more often and to greater affect. Not sure how many match results it would have changed. But opponents could rest assured if they got to her backhand, no winners would follow thanks to the constant use of slice
Last edited:
With the improvement of racket technology today, Steffi would be able to unleash powerful backhand drive much more easier than before. So if she were to compete in this generation, she might be willing to hit topspin backhand more often.
The old Dunlop 200 or Wilson pro staff 7.5 are all too heavy to comfortably hit topspin backhand. With new technology, Steffi can easily put tons of spin on the backhand side. Her game would be even more competitive than before.
CEvertFan
Hall of Fame
I'd have to agree with that. Even great players like Evert fell into that trap - playing to the Graf backhand to avoid that forehand - and it just didn't work once Steffi entered her prime. I think Evert finally realized this but was by then too far past her prime to exploit the information.
Players with superior footspeed like Sanchez-Vicario could frustrate Graf with their relentless retrieving but even then if the Graf forehand was on they most likely weren't going to win.
I do think Henin could be competitive with Steffi but she wouldn't win a series of matches against her either. IMHO, the Graf forehand still remains the single biggest weapon ever in the women's game to this day. Combine that with her superior footspeed and footwork, athleticism, superior mental toughness (one of the most important keys and one that most all of the women today including Henin lack) and you get what most people consider to be the all time greatest woman player ever.
If you have to hit the ball no more than a few inches inside the baseline on one wing, and no more than of foot or so from one sideline on the other and do it on the run, you will not win. That is the choice Graf left most players who were not very fast, had incredible anticipation or a ton of spin on the ball. She effectively stole most of the court from you.
Saying Graf's backhand was much better than Henin is a joke. Henin clearly had the better backhand. And you call anything I said over the top. :lol:
Henin is noted for her mental strength. Shriver, Carillo, Fernandez, Navratilova, have all heavily praised her mental strength. I agree she is not mentally stronger than Graf who is one of the mentally strongest players ever but I dont see how you think Henin lacks mental strength. She has been considered one of the mentally strongest playres of her era along with Serena, Maria, and Venus. How can win 7 slams as a 5"7 player with a smaller built than Hingis in this power era of womens tennis and yet not be mentally tough. I dont think it is even possible.
I also dont consider Graf the greatest ever. I think Evert is the greatest ever, Navratilova second, Court third, and Graf fourth. Just my opinion though, I do know many consider Graf tops.
Last edited:
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Part of the reason her mental strength is touted so highly is because she plays in a era where the majority of players are not mentally strong or consistent at all. Yes Henin is an amazing player but part of the reason she, along with Serena now, won/are winning slams is at least in part because the competition they have is pretty poor both in terms of mental fortitude (pretty much the entire Russian brigade comes to mind, with the possible exception of Sharapova, however she has her own list of problems.) and gameplay strategy. Henin and Serena are among the few people on the tour who can actually mix it up on the court and not just do the same thing over and over and wait for their opponents to mess up maybe worse than they do. Yes, Henin is mentally tough and I wouldn't disagree that she is one of the mentally toughest players of her generation, but when a lot of the players around her are so mentally weak anyway...well the bar isn't exactly that hard to clear. This has been said before and now, much as I love Henin I am starting to agree, she is mentally tough, but not as tough as some think, mainly because those around her are mentally much weaker, so she looks great...maybe better than she actually is.
Joe Pike
Banned
MOST consider her tops.
On which surface is Graf not among the top-2 ever?
Clay?
Grass?
Hard-Court?
The reasons I put those 3 above her are the following:
Court: longevity, total achievement and doubles dominance (I dont regard doubles that highly but when you completely dominate in doubles and singles both for a decade that is different)
Navratilova: peak level of play, total achievement, and doubles dominance.
Evert: consistency, longevity, total achievement.
As for the various surfaces it is hard to compare Court and Evert on hard courts to Graf as they didnt have near the opportunities to play on hard courts. Court I would say is similar to Graf on each of grass, clay, and indoors. Evert is superior to Graf on clay, inferior on grass, similar indoors, and similar on decoturf. Navratilova is superior to Graf on grass, superior indoors, similar on decoturf, probably would be inferior on rebound ace, and inferior on clay.
All 4 are very close but Evert and Martina have won between 155-170 tournaments each, and Court according to people who have researched it has won close to 200. That along with Evert and Court excelling first as teenagers and then well into their 30s, and Court and Navratilova completely dominating doubles as well, is why I rate the great Graf just below those 3 even if ability wise she might well be as strong or better. I am considering their careers and each aspect of it.
I do believe had it not been for all her injuries Graf would easily be the greatest ever today (including without the Seles stabbing). Unfortunately her injuries prevented Graf from fulfilling her maximum potential as a player, as amazing as her career already is.
Last edited:
Sidd Finch
Rookie
Pretty much, yes. Same people. Same arguments. Different day, :neutral:
Joe Pike
Banned
Graf: peak level of play, total achievement, dominance on all surfaces, FO/Wim/USO in same year four times, unique grace on court (which drew millions of new fans to women's tennis)
BTW, doubles is completely irrelevant.
It is for players who aren't able to pay male hitting partners.
Just compare the TV time doubles get. About 0.5 percent of singles.
Ask people who Liezel Huber is.
One singles slam title is worth more than a dozen doubles titles.
And please don't get me started with "mixed doubles" ...
That is true.
Just imagine what she could have achieved if she hadn't had this multitude of injuries in the 90s, hadn't had reconstructive knee surgery at the tender age of 27. Steffi won her 21st slam at age 27 years, 2 months. At that age Navratilova had won just 8 (!) slams.
It was a real shame injuries kept Graf from the 95 and 96 Calendar Slams. She was truly unbeatable both of those years but had to miss Australia. So in a real sense 1 Calendar Slam is not a true reflection of her level of dominance. Her injuries hurt the most from 94 onwards. They probably cost her about 3 additional slams from 94-96, and who knows another 5 or more from 97-99 given that she proved she could handle all the top players in an improving field just coming back from surgery in 99, so imagine in 97 and even 98 against a weaker field led by Hingis.
Joe Pike, I believe you are a fan of both Graf and Henin. What do you think of the matchup between them if both were at their best, say Henin of 2003 or 2007 vs Graf at hers. Obviously Graf would be favored overall, how much trouble do you think Henin could give.
Joe Pike, I believe you are a fan of both Graf and Henin. What do you think of the matchup between them if both were at their best, say Henin of 2003 or 2007 vs Graf at hers. Obviously Graf would be favored overall, how much trouble do you think Henin could give.
CEvertFan
Hall of Fame
Henin isn't mentally weak anymore but she used to be and even now I wouldn't put her even in the top 20 of the most mentally tough players of all time - as boredone said compared to her peers she is now one of the more mentally tough players of her era but compared to the very best she really isn't. It's the one key area where most ALL of the current women players have a big problem, hence the sad state of women's tennis right now.
Yeah I think the biggest problem with the current crop of women is between the ears. Technically and tactically they arent the best generation ever by any stretch, but they have enough skills they could still produce a decent group of players if 95% of them werent such mental creampuffs.
Serena knows she can get away with being well out of shape since not only is shemore talented than any current or recent player, but her mental strength is on another plateau altogether even from the other girls considered mentally strong amongst todays group- Venus, Sharapova, Henin, let alone the remaining who arent. And Serena while mentally very tough isnt even the mentally toughest player of all time probably (though she is in the top 5 or 6).
Similar threads
- Poll
