Graf the greatest female player of all time on all surfaces

[reversef]

You can say whatever you want but if she were cut out for any kind of long term dominance there was no excuse to not do better than she did in her post stabbing career- only 1 freaking slam in 8 years! To suggest she was disadvantaged by the stabbing isnt unreasonable, but to suggest she gets a free pass the rest of her career if she chooses to come back after all that time off and play that much longer, and never has to bother getting in any kind of decent shape since people should just assume she was going to win those events and crown her the unofficial winner of them had it not been for the incident is just stupid. It seems Seles fans want people to just look at her dominant 2 years and agree and concede she was going to dominate the rest of her career when nobody, including players who were far more dominant, athletic, and complete than peak Monica has dominated that long. And that is simply crazy.

Anyway you just enjoy watching thalivest's clips now. Monica at her invincible peak for all to see.

No, I don't think that she would have been able to dominate the game for 10 years. But for a few more years, yes, probably.
Seles was never invincible at her peak, not the way Graf was. That doesn't mean that she didn't have some very good years at the top of the game waiting for her.

 

[davey25]

No, I don't think that she would have been able to dominate the game for 10 years. But for a few more years, yes, probably.
Seles was never invincible at her peak, not the way Graf was. That doesn't mean that she didn't have some very good years at the top of the game waiting for her.

Fair enough. I think that is reasonable. I over assumed what you were implying probably based on alot of Seles fanatics who seem to think she would have won every slam for the next 10 years and even dominated grass. I have even been on some tennis forums where in 2000 and 2001 some of the Seles fanatics were claiming she would still be ranked #1 in the World by that point. I have no problem with someone suggesting Graf benefited from the stabbing, but I dont think Seles was the future GOAT of tennis either, quite possibly higher in history than she is now mind you.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

You can say whatever you want but if she were cut out for any kind of long term dominance there was no excuse to not do better than she did in her post stabbing career- only 1 freaking slam in 8 years! To suggest she was disadvantaged by the stabbing isnt unreasonable, but to suggest she gets a free pass the rest of her career if she chooses to come back after all that time off and play that much longer, and never has to bother getting in any kind of decent shape since people should just assume she was going to win those events and crown her the unofficial winner of them had it not been for the incident is just stupid. It seems Seles fans want people to just look at her dominant 2 years and agree and concede she was going to dominate the rest of her career when nobody, including players who were far more dominant, athletic, and complete than peak Monica has dominated that long. And that is simply crazy.

Anyway you just enjoy watching thalivest's clips now. Monica at her invincible peak for all to see.

this...

or as rios would say...

 

[ecurb]

I'm not sensitive concerning the subject, I just say that I'm not a Seles fan since you imply that only Seles fans think that she would have had another career without the stabbing. No, I'm not a Seles fan, but I was following women tennis at that time, and it seems obvious for me that Seles would have won more than she did. Now, if you want to believe that I'm a Seles fan who doesn't want to say it, no problem for me. I think I don't have any problem to say which players I'm a fan of though.

It goes further than that. Seles would probably have won more than Graf, because each win Seles got, would have taken away a title from Graf, since those two were pretty much the only ones that were winning. She was definitely on a better pace before she got stabbed winning everything but W in sight. And she was only getting better.

 

[reversef]

Fair enough. I think that is reasonable. I over assumed what you were implying probably based on alot of Seles fanatics who seem to think she would have won every slam for the next 10 years and even dominated grass. I have even been on some tennis forums where in 2000 and 2001 some of the Seles fanatics were claiming she would still be ranked #1 in the World by that point. I have no problem with someone suggesting Graf benefited from the stabbing, but I dont think Seles was the future GOAT of tennis either, quite possibly higher in history than she is now mind you.

Ok, I agree with this too.

 

[Cyan]

Eh, Navratilova won 2 more Wimbledons and Evert won 1 more RG.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Can Mother Marjorie imagine how mentally destroyed Seles must have been after the stabbing? Everyone could see that she was not the same player anymore. What happened to Seles is one of the most scandalous and unfair things that happened in the game. And Graf benefited from it, like it or not.

Mother Marjorie understands that Monica Seles returned to professional tennis 20 pounds heavier and a few inches taller and never completely got rid of the weight even years later while on tour. If Monica was that mentally quashed upon her return to tennis, how on earth did she make it to the US Open finals, followed by a win at the Australian Open?

Monica's inability to get into the type of shape a professional athlete needs to sustain to be considered a GOAT is what held her game back. Her genetics played a role in that. She just didn't have the physical make-up to have longevity at the top.

Graf benefited from a self-admitted binge eater? Please. Don't get Mother Marjorie wrong, I really liked Monica when she gave Graf fits in the early '90's because I thought her challenging Graf was good for women's tennis, but Mother Marjorie also understands that as a girl becomes a woman, her body changes, something Mother Nature controls. The stabbing aside, Seles had other physical demons she was dealing with, one's that would ultimately shape her career.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

I Know Mother Marjorie. Mother Marjorie is Good enough to like you too... she understands that you need love!

but Can Reversef explain why Seles won the 1996 Slam? did she overcome the Parche incident by then?

Yes, Gorecki, Mother Marjorie has so much love to give. She embraces her children with the warmth and comfort that only a mother can provide.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Eh, Navratilova won 2 more Wimbledons and Evert won 1 more RG.

Mother Marjorie begs to understand the point Cyan is making.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

It goes further than that. Seles would probably have won more than Graf, because each win Seles got, would have taken away a title from Graf, since those two were pretty much the only ones that were winning. She was definitely on a better pace before she got stabbed winning everything but W in sight. And she was only getting better.

Mother Marjorie must disagree because Seles' body was already showing signs of stress, including a lengthy injury lay-off right before her German Open appearance. Please see Rafael Nadal.

 

[ecurb]

Mother Marjorie must disagree because Seles' body was already showing signs of stress, including a lengthy injury lay-off right before her German Open appearance. Please see Rafael Nadal.

Sign of stress is quite far away from a stabbing. She was only 20, her game was intense, but nowhere near as Nadal's. She would have rested and blitzkrieged Graf all the way out of the record books.

 

[davey25]

Sign of stress is quite far away from a stabbing. She was only 20, her game was intense, but nowhere near as Nadal's. She would have rested and blitzkrieged Graf all the way out of the record books.

It is becoming increasingly clear you really are a clueless twit with no grasp of reality. If you dont feel Graf is the greatest ever, or that she benefited from the Seles stabbing, that is fine. However Graf was never going to leave the record books, and such a claim is proposterous. She was already a double digits slam winner, someone who had set a record # of consecutive weeks at #1, one of only 4 women to win every one of the 4 slams multiple times (good luck to Seles ever joining this list by winning Wimbledon twice, lol), and the only women to ever achieve the Golden Slam (something I can ensure you Seles was never going to achieve).

Also there is absolutely no evidence of Seles destroying Graf despite your grandoise claims. Even at her dominant peak she was 2-3 vs Graf, being humiliated their one meeting on a fast surface (the Wimbledon final no less), losing quite badly in their one meeting on a medium surface, and in their 3 meetings on a slower surface winning twice in 3 tough sets and losing the other in 3 tough sets. If you think with that being Seles's results vs Graf even at her pre stabbing peak, and that she returned to win only 1 slam in all those years of playing tennis, that you are going to convince anyone other than your fellow Selestials that Monica was going to be crushing and dominating Graf on all surfaces then you can keep dreaming.

 

[davey25]

her game was intense, but nowhere near as Nadal's.

You are right on one thing atleast, even if indirectly and accidentally so. Seles has nowhere near the insane athletic ability even for a women that Nadal has for a man. And his mental strength is every big the match amongst the men that hers was amongst the women, is not even further beyond. So her longevity of near peak play was never going to approach anything near what his is going to be as well.

 

[Cyan]

Mother Marjorie begs to understand the point Cyan is making.

From what I have read, Navratilova was better on grass and Evert was better on clay than Graf. They were more consistent. Graf is the best on HC ever. What's with your name? Are you like a nun or sth? LOL. :lol:

 

[MotherMarjorie]

She was only 20, her game was intense, but nowhere near as Nadal's.

Mother Marjorie says, "Duh!"

The parallel I was attempting to draw was that of Nadal and Seles not being able to physically keep up with the demands of the sport based upon their style of play. His recent injuries and lack of grand slam success since his knee injury(ies) is proof of early stress on his lower body, which Seles also began suffering with right before her unfortunate knifing.

The parallel stops as to the cause. Nadal over trains which is putting extra stress on his lower extremties, hence injury. Seles never had the physical traits to properly train and protect her joints, which probably led to her early injury.

Too much, too little....its all so confusing for a little old lady like Mother Marjorie.... That is why its essential to have proper tennis mechanics and a good trainer for longevity in the sport. Uncle Tony is the blame.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

From what I have read, Navratilova was better on grass and Evert was better on clay than Graf. They were more consistent. Graf is the best on HC ever. What's with your name? Are you like a nun or sth? LOL. :lol:

From what I have read, Navratilova was better on grass and Evert was better on clay than Graf. They were more consistent. Graf is the best on HC ever. What's with your name? Are you like a nun or sth? LOL. :lol:

The topic of the thread is "greatest female player of all time on all surfaces"
I interpret that as being hardcourt plus clay plus grass.

Graf's ability to win all the grand slam titles on at least four different occasions and six times on three surfaces is what would qualify her for this discussion.

(Mother Marjorie side bar: The US Open was played on clay from 1975-1977 and The Australian Open was played on grass until 1988.)

In no particular order:

Chris Evert Clay Court Grand Slam singles title Wins: 10
Chris Evert Grass Court Grand Slam singles title wins: 5
Chris Evert Hard Court Grand Slam singles title wins: 3

Martina Navratilova Clay Court Grand Slam singles title Wins: 2
Martina Navratilova Grass Court Grand Slam singles title wins: 12
Martina Navratilova Hardcourt Grand Slam singles title wins: 4

Steffi Graf Clay Court Grand Slam singles title Wins: 6
Steffi Graf Grass Court Grand Slam singles title wins: 7
Steffi Graf Hardcourt Grand Slam singles title wins: 9

As you can see, Graf never had a weakness on any surface. She won at least six grand slam singles titles on each surface. The most Martina could muster was 2 and Chris 3.

Graf also holds the distinction of winning each of the four grand slam events at least four times. No one else has been able to do that.

Given the fact that Seles wasn't great on grass and was never able to win Wimbledon (during her period as #1 and beyond), Seles would never, ever, even be mentioned in this discussion, knifing or not. And neither would Serena Williams, Justine Henin, Lindsay Davenport, Kim Clijsters, etc. etc. etc.

If the surface don't fit, you must acquit.

Mother Marjorie has spoken.

 

[ecurb]

It is becoming increasingly clear you really are a clueless twit with no grasp of reality. If you dont feel Graf is the greatest ever, or that she benefited from the Seles stabbing, that is fine. However Graf was never going to leave the record books, and such a claim is proposterous. She was already a double digits slam winner, someone who had set a record # of consecutive weeks at #1, one of only 4 women to win every one of the 4 slams multiple times (good luck to Seles ever joining this list by winning Wimbledon twice, lol), and the only women to ever achieve the Golden Slam (something I can ensure you Seles was never going to achieve).

Also there is absolutely no evidence of Seles destroying Graf despite your grandoise claims. Even at her dominant peak she was 2-3 vs Graf, being humiliated their one meeting on a fast surface (the Wimbledon final no less), losing quite badly in their one meeting on a medium surface, and in their 3 meetings on a slower surface winning twice in 3 tough sets and losing the other in 3 tough sets. If you think with that being Seles's results vs Graf even at her pre stabbing peak, and that she returned to win only 1 slam in all those years of playing tennis, that you are going to convince anyone other than your fellow Selestials that Monica was going to be crushing and dominating Graf on all surfaces then you can keep dreaming.

I didn't mean literally she'd leave the record books. Try to read between the lines once in a while. I meant she would have nowhere near the slams she did. I'd say she would have ended with maybe 16 slams. Still one of the top, but sharing a spot with Seles. Seles didn't need to be necessarily crushing Graf H2H. The bottom line is that in the previous 2 years to her stabbing she won 3/4 slams both years just like Fed was doing. She definitely would have continued that onslaught and probably picked up 1 or 2 W along the way.

 

[ecurb]

Mother Marjorie says, "Duh!"

The parallel I was attempting to draw was that of Nadal and Seles not being able to physically keep up with the demands of the sport based upon their style of play. His recent injuries and lack of grand slam success since his knee injury(ies) is proof of early stress on his lower body, which Seles also began suffering with right before her unfortunate knifing.

The parallel stops as to the cause. Nadal over trains which is putting extra stress on his lower extremties, hence injury. Seles never had the physical traits to properly train and protect her joints, which probably led to her early injury.

Too much, too little....its all so confusing for a little old lady like Mother Marjorie.... That is why its essential to have proper tennis mechanics and a good trainer for longevity in the sport. Uncle Tony is the blame.

Duh right back, Seles' stress is not comparable. She was winning 3/4 slams for each of the last 2 years. Oh yeah that's a lot of stress. Give me a break. She was only getting better. Maybe even a calendar slam was possible when she reached her peak by 22/23. You people don't get that she was only 20!

 

[ecurb]

IF Seles was never stabbed:

Slam count:

1. Court 24
2. Moody 19
3. Navratilova 18
3. Evert 18
4. Seles 17
5. Graf 16
6. King 12
etc

 

[LDVTennis]

IF Seles was never stabbed:

Slam count:

1. Court 24
2. Moody 19
3. Navratilova 18
3. Evert 18
4. Seles 17
5. Graf 16
6. King 12
etc

If the Germans had won WWII,

1. Graf 45+

Everyone else would have been erased from the history books, at the very least...

 

[ecurb]

If the Germans had won WWII,

1. Graf 45+

Everyone else would have been erased from the history books, at the very least...

THey should make a movie of that called "What if the Nazzis won". And then depict what things might have been like. I'd go see that.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

IF Seles was never stabbed:

Slam count:

1. Court 24
2. Moody 19
3. Navratilova 18
3. Evert 18
4. Seles 17
5. Graf 16
6. King 12
etc

Mother Marjorie says, "...as if...."

Monica couldn't win on grass when she was number one. There is _NO_WAY she was getting even close to Evert/Navratilova.

 

[ecurb]

Mother Marjorie says, "...as if...."

Monica couldn't win on grass when she was number one. There is _NO_WAY she was getting even close to Evert/Navratilova.

She hadn't even reached her prime at 20. When she did at 22/23 she would have won on Grass. Heck in 94 and 97 even Graf didn't win W. Seles would have easily taken it those years.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Duh right back, Seles' stress is not comparable. She was winning 3/4 slams for each of the last 2 years. Oh yeah that's a lot of stress. Give me a break. She was only getting better. Maybe even a calendar slam was possible when she reached her peak by 22/23. You people don't get that she was only 20!

Don't EVEN try to out "duh" Mother Marjorie.

Oh, now you wanna try to throw Mother Marjorie a Seles calendar year slam when Graf embarrassed her on grass during her #1 ranking. Please refrain from "what ifs" and "coulda been" when discussing tennis history with Mother Marjorie. Mother Marjorie is reality-based. She does not deal in kuckoo land where imaginary tennis players achieve imaginery results.

The stabbing of Monica Seles was horrible. What Seles shoved in her own mouth afterwards was more harmful to her body and her career. She had a eating disorder and couldn't control herself. Its well-documented in her book.

Don't make me pull-out my "mirror...mirror"....

 

[Justdoit10]

Mother Marjorie needs to get that narcissistic personality disorder checked out, Justdoit10 thinks.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

She hadn't even reached her prime at 20. When she did at 22/23 she would have won on Grass. Heck in 94 and 97 even Graf didn't win W. Seles would have easily taken it those years.

Uh, see Martina Hingis....sah--cuhr-a-tay!!!!. Now that's a parallel I'd like to discuss....

The similarities to what Graf did to Seles at Wimbledon vs what Graf did to Hingis at the '99 French Open finals is very ironic. Graf sent a message to Seles that she was never, never, ever gonna win Wimbledon. Similarly, she totally embarrased poor Martina Hingis in the '99 French Open final and poor Martina never won another grand slam singles title.

That's what Mother Marjorie liked about Steffi...she just left it all out on the court. At-will, Graf could just make people's careers crumble in front of them using her tennis racquet, without uttering a negative word. Besides, any straight lady who could punk Navratilova was always a fav of Mother Marjorie's.

 

[ecurb]

Don't EVEN try to out "duh" Mother Marjorie.

Oh, now you wanna try to throw Mother Marjorie a Seles calendar year slam when Graf embarrassed her on grass during her #1 ranking. Please refrain from "what ifs" and "coulda been" when discussing tennis history with Mother Marjorie. Mother Marjorie is reality-based. She does not deal in kuckoo land where imaginary tennis players achieve imaginery results.

The stabbing of Monica Seles was horrible. What Seles shoved in her own mouth afterwards was more harmful to her body and her career. She had a eating disorder and couldn't control herself. Its well-documented in her book.

Don't make me pull-out my "mirror...mirror"....

Monica wasn't in her prime and still she managed to reach #1!! If she was in her prime....well then I'd feel bad for graf. Well the whole point of discussing anything here is what ifs. We all know the data, so what's the point in discussing. Graf owns the most modern era slams because Seles was stabbed, period. That's the fact.

 

[ecurb]

Uh, see Martina Hingis....sah--cuhr-a-tay!!!!. Now that's a parallel I'd like to discuss....

The similarities to what Graf did to Seles at Wimbledon vs what Graf did to Hingis at the '99 French Open finals is very ironic. Graf sent a message to Seles that she was never, never, ever gonna win Wimbledon. Similarly, she totally embarrased poor Martina Hingis in the '99 French Open final and poor Martina never won another grand slam singles title.

That's what Mother Marjorie liked about Steffi...she just left it all out on the court. At-will, Graf could just make people's careers crumble in front of them using her tennis racquet, without uttering a negative word. Besides, any straight lady who could punk Navratilova was always a fav of Mother Marjorie's.

She would have won wimbledon after Graf lost more and more to Seles as was happening before she was stabbed. It's clear.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Mother Marjorie sidebar: some people seem to think Mother Marjorie is equating physical stress to psychological stress and she isn't.

 

[ecurb]

Mother Marjorie sidebar: some people seem to think Mother Marjorie is equating physical stress to psychological stress and she isn't.

What's up your dress Mother Marjorie?

 

[MotherMarjorie]

She would have won wimbledon after Graf lost more and more to Seles as was happening before she was stabbed. It's clear.

Before making such comments, Mother Marjorie demands that you look at their H2H:

1 1989 French Open Clay SF Graf 6–3, 3–6, 6–3
2 1989 Wimbledon Grass 4RD Graf 6–0, 6–1
3 1989 Brighton Indoors F Graf 7–5, 6–4

4 1990 Berlin Clay F Seles 6–4, 6–3
5 1990 French Open Clay F Seles 7–6, 6–4
6 1991 U.S. Hard Court Championships Hard F Graf 6–4, 6–3
7 1991 Hamburg Clay F Graf 7–5, 6–7, 6–3
8 1992 French Open Clay F Seles 6–2, 3–6, 10–8
9 1992 Wimbledon Grass F Graf 6–2, 6–1
10 1993 Australian Open Hard F Seles 4–6, 6–3, 6–2

11 1995 US Open Hard F Graf 7–6, 0–6, 6–3
12 1996 US Open Hard F Graf 7–5, 6–4
13 1998 New York City Indoors QF Graf 1–6, 6–4, 6–4
14 1999 Australian Open Hard QF Seles 7–5, 6–1
15 1999 French Open Clay SF Graf 6–7, 6–3, 6–4

Hard courts: Graf, 3–2
Clay courts: Equal, 3–3
Grass courts: Graf, 2–0
Indoors: Graf, 2–0
Grand Slam matches: Graf, 6–4
Grand Slam finals: Equal, 3–3
Year-End Championships matches: Graf, 1–0
Year-End Championships finals: None
Fed Cup matches: None
All finals: Graf, 6–4

 

[davey25]

She hadn't even reached her prime at 20. When she did at 22/23 she would have won on Grass. Heck in 94 and 97 even Graf didn't win W. Seles would have easily taken it those years.

Easily taken it!?!?! Hingis was a horrible matchup for Seles and Seles was going to beat her on grass which is her worst surface. NO. Novotna was also a bad matchup for Seles, and grass was her favorite surface. They were in the finals that year and Seles would have won it easily over them, hahahah. Seles was losing early rounds of Wimbledon the years after her comeback to women she was destroying on other surfaces around the same time, and you are going to still put that all down to the stabbing and nothing to do with her relative incompetence on grass, and you are going to still try and make it out as if she were going all the way from regular 3rd round exits to winning on grass without the stabbing, ROTFL!!! Here is a reality dose, if Seles was not stabbed her result in 1997 would have been the following: a 3rd round loss to Sandrine Testud 8-6 in the 3rd set. Just like it was anyway. You Selestials are good for some laughs.

 

[ecurb]

Before making such comments, Mother Marjorie demands that you look at their H2H:

1 1989 French Open Clay SF Graf 6–3, 3–6, 6–3
2 1989 Wimbledon Grass 4RD Graf 6–0, 6–1
3 1989 Brighton Indoors F Graf 7–5, 6–4

4 1990 Berlin Clay F Seles 6–4, 6–3
5 1990 French Open Clay F Seles 7–6, 6–4
6 1991 U.S. Hard Court Championships Hard F Graf 6–4, 6–3
7 1991 Hamburg Clay F Graf 7–5, 6–7, 6–3
8 1992 French Open Clay F Seles 6–2, 3–6, 10–8
9 1992 Wimbledon Grass F Graf 6–2, 6–1
10 1993 Australian Open Hard F Seles 4–6, 6–3, 6–2

11 1995 US Open Hard F Graf 7–6, 0–6, 6–3
12 1996 US Open Hard F Graf 7–5, 6–4
13 1998 New York City Indoors QF Graf 1–6, 6–4, 6–4
14 1999 Australian Open Hard QF Seles 7–5, 6–1
15 1999 French Open Clay SF Graf 6–7, 6–3, 6–4

Hard courts: Graf, 3–2
Clay courts: Equal, 3–3
Grass courts: Graf, 2–0
Indoors: Graf, 2–0
Grand Slam matches: Graf, 6–4
Grand Slam finals: Equal, 3–3
Year-End Championships matches: Graf, 1–0
Year-End Championships finals: None
Fed Cup matches: None
All finals: Graf, 6–4

Holy cow, Graf only led by 6-4 before Seles even reached her prime??? Wow, I thought it was worse than that. Thanks, that clearly means she would have taken over the h2h had she not been stabbed. You can't be so ludicrous as to include anything after she came back from the stabbing. She was fat.

 

[thalivest]

Monica wasn't in her prime and still she managed to reach #1!! If she was in her prime....well then I'd feel bad for graf. Well the whole point of discussing anything here is what ifs. We all know the data, so what's the point in discussing. Graf owns the most modern era slams because Seles was stabbed, period. That's the fact.

Monica was in her prime in the early 90s. No health problems, perfect body shape, no personal problems, the best tennis she would ever play. What other definition to a prime do you have. Seles fanatics like yourself should thank Gunther Parche for stabbing Monica though as it allows you to continue to have your crazy delusions that Monica was going to keep win every slam the rest of the decade and even become a dominant player on grass without having your fantasy ever destroyed for you. :lol:

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Monica wasn't in her prime and still she managed to reach #1!! If she was in her prime....well then I'd feel bad for graf. Well the whole point of discussing anything here is what ifs. We all know the data, so what's the point in discussing. Graf owns the most modern era slams because Seles was stabbed, period. That's the fact.

At age 16, American Maureen Connolly won her first grand slam title over Shirley Fry. In 1953, she won the first calendar year grand slam in women's tennis history at age 18.

1.Australian Championships - 1 time: Winner 1953
2.French Championships - 2 times: Winner 1953, 1954
3.Wimbledon - 3 times: Winner 1952, 1953, 1954
4.U.S. Championships - 5 times (1949–1953): Winner 1951, 1952, 1953

Two weeks after winning her third Wimbledon at age 19, her leg was crushed in a horseback riding accident when a truck hit them. She was never able to fully recover.

The Mother Marjorie Moral of this story is that tennis history has taught us that players much younger and much more accomplished than Monica Seles have experienced career-ending tragedy. Seles had a second chance, Maureen didn't. Get over it.

 

[ecurb]

Monica was in her prime in the early 90s. No health problems, perfect body shape, no personal problems, the best tennis she would ever play. What other definition to a prime do you have. Seles fanatics like yourself should thank Gunther Parche for stabbing Monica though as it allows you to continue to have your crazy delusions that Monica was going to keep win every slam the rest of the decade and even become a dominant player on grass without having your fantasy ever destroyed for you. :lol:

She hadn't reached her peak yet. She was only getting better. She was only 20!! She could have played at better than that lever for another 4 or 5 years winning 2 slams per year easily. You don't know that that was the best she could play because you never saw her play past 93 without the knife.

 

[ecurb]

At age 16, American Maureen Connolly won her first grand slam title over Shirley Fry. In 1953, she won the first calendar year grand slam in women's tennis history at age 18.

1.Australian Championships - 1 time: Winner 1953
2.French Championships - 2 times: Winner 1953, 1954
3.Wimbledon - 3 times: Winner 1952, 1953, 1954
4.U.S. Championships - 5 times (1949–1953): Winner 1951, 1952, 1953

Two weeks after winning her third Wimbledon at age 19, her leg was crushed in a horseback riding accident when a truck hit them. She was never able to fully recover.

The Mother Marjorie Moral of this story is that tennis history has taught us that players much younger and much more accomplished than Monica Seles have experienced career-ending tragedy. Seles had a second chance, Maureen didn't. Get over it.

[/QUOTE]

What's that got to do with anything? Are you sane? 2 or 3 instances do not make a history. You get over it.

 

[thalivest]

You can't be so ludicrous as to include anything after she came back from the stabbing. She was fat.

Then she should have gotten off her fat ass and into the gym. As Rios said to Seles in the lunch line "move your fat ass". If she couldnt do that then too bad. Boo hoo, Seles fanatics continue to cry and search for excuses while others continue to pass Seles's career and soon drop her right out of the top 10 women players of all time altogether. Increasingly she will be mainly remembered as a flash in the pan baseline basher who couldnt even come close to winning Wimbledon even at her best, and who couldnt cope with any of the new age power hitters who emerged in the late 90s.

By the way when Seles and Graf played in late 98-99 Graf was even more past her prime than Seles. She was injured, was coming off two major knee surgeries, had a string of humiliating losses in the last year she had never had at any other point in her career, and she still had a winning head to head with Seles even then.

Graf vs Seles head to head break down:

Young Seles vs Graf: 3-2 Graf
Seles at her peak vs slumping Graf: 3-2 Graf
Post stabbing Seles vs Graf: 2-0 Graf
Post stabbing Seles vs injured/past her prime Graf in twilight of career 2-1 Graf

You see one thing in common, Graf the superior player always ahead. To be expected when you are comparing a 7 time Wimbledon and 22 slam singles winner to a ball basher who can only make it past the quarters of Wimbledon once and who chooses to spend the last 8 years of her career as a water buffalo on a Krispy Kremes fetish. Good day.

 

[ecurb]

Then she should have gotten off her fat ass and into the gym. As Rios said to Seles in the lunch line "move your fat ass". If she couldnt do that then too bad. Boo hoo, Seles fanatics continue to cry and search for excuses while others continue to pass Seles's career and soon drop her right out of the top 10 women players of all time altogether. Increasingly she will be mainly remembered as a flash in the pan baseline basher who couldnt even come close to winning Wimbledon even at her best, and who couldnt cope with any of the new age power hitters who emerged in the late 90s.

By the way when Seles and Graf played in late 98-99 Graf was even more past her prime than Seles. She was injured, was coming off two major knee surgeries, had a string of humiliating losses in the last year she had never had at any other point in her career, and she still had a winning head to head with Seles even then.

Graf vs Seles head to head break down:

Young Seles vs Graf: 3-2 Graf
Seles at her peak vs slumping Graf: 3-2 Graf
Post stabbing Seles vs Graf: 2-0 Graf
Post stabbing Seles vs injured/past her prime Graf in twilight of career 2-1 Graf

You see one thing in common, Graf the superior player always ahead. To be expected when you are comparing a 7 time Wimbledon and 22 slam singles winner to a ball basher who can only make it past the quarters of Wimbledon once and who chooses to spend the last 8 years of her career as a water buffalo on a Krispy Kremes fetish. Good day.

You let me know how easy it is to come back after you've had a knife gashed into your back. That she even came back at all AND won a slam, is monumental.

 

[thalivest]

You let me know how easy it is to come back after you've had a knife gashed into your back. That she even came back at all AND won a slam, is monumental.

Yeah beating the great Anke Huber in the final after scraping past the legendary Chanda Rubin in the semis (after Rubin choked). I am convinced now, all hail Seles the GOAT! I cant believe she won Wimbledon 0 times instead of 10.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

What's that got to do with anything? Are you sane? 2 or 3 instances do not make a history. You get over it.

You let me know how easy it is to come back after you've had a knife gashed into your back. That she even came back at all AND won a slam, is monumental.

Oh, I bet you NEVER heard Maureen's fans attempt to demean the accomplishments of those who won GS titles after Maureen's accident and absence from the sport because it was important for Maureen that she not be made to feel a permanent victim of history. Unlike some of Monica's fans who would rather permanently make Seles histories victim, replaying the mental image of her stabbing, over and over and over to somehow make it all right again.

Like I said. Maureen never had a chance to come back. Monica had the chance Maureen didn't and couldn't make it successful enough for some of her fans.

Personally, I almost wish Seles had admitted her eating disorder years ago so some of her f-ed up fans could better understand why she was never going to be a GOAT.

For F's sake. Get over it.

 

[ecurb]

Oh, I bet you NEVER heard Maureen's fans attempt to demean the accomplishments of those who won GS titles after Maureen's accident and absence from the sport because it was important for Maureen that she not be made to feel a permanent victim of history. Unlike some of Monica's fans who would rather permanently make Seles histories victim, replaying the mental image of her stabbing, over and over and over to somehow make it all right again.

Like I said. Maureen never had a chance to come back. Monica had the chance Maureen didn't and couldn't make it successful enough for some of her fans.

Personally, I almost wish Seles had admitted her eating disorder years ago so some of her f-ed up fans could better understand why she was never going to be a GOAT.

For F's sake. Get over it.

Maureen's was an accident. Seles' was not. Huge difference. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.

 

[thalivest]

Also the idea that Seles could never get herself back into shape or never win slams again just because she was stabbed many years ago is so outrageously stupid I dont know how to even put it into words. The reality is that Seles was only destined to dominate a couple years while Graf was going through a rough patch and she had no other competition at all. That makes alot more sense than some story she could never workout or eat properly again since being stabbed in the back 5-10 years ago was forcing her to be a slob forever, or that everytime she got outplayed upon returning to player was all the powers of the mythical Gunther Parche who still had a Seles voodoo doll at home.

 

[ecurb]

Yeah beating the great Anke Huber in the final after scraping past the legendary Chanda Rubin in the semis (after Rubin choked). I am convinced now, all hail Seles the GOAT! I cant believe she won Wimbledon 0 times instead of 10.

You miss the point. The slam was just a side victory. The real victory was that she even came back, unfortunately she was never the same. Had she been the same, she would have cleaned up.

 

[ecurb]

Also the idea that Seles could never get herself back into shape or never win slams again just because she was stabbed many years ago is so outrageously stupid I dont know how to even put it into words. The reality is that Seles was only destined to dominate a couple years while Graf was going through a rough patch and she had no other competition at all. That makes alot more sense than some story she could never workout or eat properly again since being stabbed in the back 5-10 years ago was forcing her to be a slob forever, or that everytime she got outplayed upon returning to player was all the powers of the mythical Gunther Parche who still had a Seles voodoo doll at home.

It wasn't just a physically being out of tennis that made her fat and out of shape. There were huge psychological consequences of the attack which you can't seem to fathom. Again I say, I'd like to see how well you'd do in that situation after being attacked.

 

[thalivest]

Had she been the same, she would have cleaned up.

Again you should write a thank you letter to Gunther Parche for stabbing Monica as it allows you and your fellow Seles co-owners of the Monica Seles shrine to keep all these nice little fantasies of yours without having them broken by a little something called reality.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Then she should have gotten off her fat ass and into the gym.

I'm sayin'....she had the chance Maureen Connolly didn't have and she blew it!

No wonder some of the Seles fans feel cheated...but guess what. It wasn't Steffi spoon-feeding Monica.

Mother Marjorie says, "Cakes and Pies! Cakes and Pies!"

Seriously, I'm amazed how some of Seles' fans continue to use her unfortunate stabbing as an excuse for her binge eating and being out of shape for years.

Its mind-blowing. Like, they all live in the same denial-bubble.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Again you should write a thank you letter to Gunther Parche for stabbing Monica as it allows you and your fellow Seles co-owners of the Monica Seles shrine to keep all these nice little fantasies of yours without having them broken by a little something called reality.

Uh, didn't want to say it, but must agree. Its getting a little ridiculous...

Sah---cuhr---a---tay!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkdcYlOn5M

 

[ecurb]

I'm sayin'....she had the chance Maureen Connolly didn't have and she blew it!

No wonder some of the Seles fans feel cheated...but guess what. It wasn't Steffi spoon-feeding Monica.

Mother Marjorie says, "Cakes and Pies! Cakes and Pies!"

Seriously, I'm amazed how some of Seles' fans continue to use her unfortunate stabbing as an excuse for her binge eating and being out of shape for years.

Its mind-blowing. Like, they all live in the same denial-bubble.

Comparing an evil stabbing to an accident is ludicrous.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

It wasn't just a physically being out of tennis that made her fat and out of shape. There were huge psychological consequences of the attack which you can't seem to fathom. Again I say, I'd like to see how well you'd do in that situation after being attacked.

Well, let's see. She came back to make it to the US Open finals. Then, she won the Australian Open, then never won a GS singles title again.

Mother Marjorie thinks that Australian Open win SHOULD have been enough to catapult her psychologically, that is, if she had the "stomach" for GOAT.

Word.