Graf the greatest female player of all time on all surfaces

G1PlAyer2

Rookie
Serena was 28 years and 4 months old when she won the AO 2010.
Not "almost age 29".

Her first tournament at 30+ will be in the year 2012.
And I definitely don't see her winning slams in 2012 or even later. No chance.

For this to happen, the likes of Jankovic, Safina, Wozniacki, Wickmayer, etc., will be equivalent to Martina Navratilova, winning slams left and right.

If she isn't winning slams in 2012 it's because she isn't interested in the sport anymore and has no desire. ONLY reason. And, please don't say Henin is going to stop her. Henin has said she is done with the game in 2012 and she will be 30 w/ Serena for almost 4 months.

If Serena isn't winning slams at 30, SURELY you aren't suggesting the likes of Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters will are you? Because both Justine and Kim will be 30 and 29 respectively, and Serena will be 30.

Like I said, if Serena isn't winning slams, it's because she doesn't want to play anymore. There is NO way you are convincing me that the likes of Safina and Wozniacki are going to stop her consistently. :):twisted:
 

G1PlAyer2

Rookie
Dominant Fashion? maybe in her 1st 4 matches yes, but she struggled past Azarenka, was down a set and 4-0, and while she raised her game she was still very lucky to get out of that. She needed 2 tiebreaks to defeat Li Na, and had plenty of patchy moments in the final against Henin...hardly "dominant Fashion". If you want to see what winning in Dominant fashion looks like, check out Maria Sharapova's 08 Aussie Run...that was dominant, Compare it to Serena's there year...not as much so.

Dominant fashion considering she was injured and wrapped like a mummy. Azarenka was her only hurdle really. She was in control and always in the lead in both her matches against Na Li and Henin.
 

Joe Pike

Banned
...
If she isn't winning slams in 2012 it's because she isn't interested in the sport anymore and has no desire. ONLY reason. ...
Like I said, if Serena isn't winning slams, it's because she doesn't want to play anymore. ...


Serenatardism in its purest form ...
 

BTURNER

Legend
Maintaining 'interest' means staying motivated. That is part of being a champion as much as staying mealttly and physically fit. and harder to do as time rolls on. In other words, if she no longer cares, its on HER!
 

LDVTennis

Professional
Not in the U.S. she wasn't. Not EVER.

Oh yeah? Let's look at how Graf's TV ratings in the US compare to those of the Williams' Sisters:

US Open Ratings: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/114759. On the surface, these ratings would seem to justify your position, except for the fact that that 6.8 rating in 2001 was for a primetime match. None of Graf's finals were ever played in primetime.

So, the better way of comparing Graf to the W Sisters as "draws" would be to look at the average ratings for all telecasts in one year. That would tend to mitigate the influence of the primetime advantage that the women have had since 2001 since it takes the average of all the telecasts, meaning all the times that the network chooses to show the featured players (typically the finalists and winners) throughout the tournament. Here is the source for that information: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/sports/us-open-historic-television-ratings/

The highest rating for a year in which Graf won was 1988, the golden slam year, a 4.2 rating. (The men's winner that year was Wilander. So, it was probably all Graf.) The highest average rating for a year in which a Williams' sister won was 1999 with a 3.5 rating. (The men's winner was Agassi. So, it was probably just as much Agassi as Serena. The numbers from the Sports Business Daily would back up that deduction. Here is that link again: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/114759.)

By the way, if you go back to this link http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/sports/us-open-historic-television-ratings/, you'll see why Evert was clearly a bigger draw in the US than both Graf and the W Sisters.

More troubling facts for your point of view...

Wimbledon Ratings. Go to link http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/i...ticleID=131472.

The Davenport vs. Graf match in 1999 received a higher rating than any match featuring one or more Williams' sister. How can that be?

Here is more: US Viewership of Graf in Wimbledon Finals from 1988 to 1996

1988 4.29 3.6 GRAF/EDBERG
1989 4.56 3.9 GRAF/BECKER (Highest rating with two Germans in the Finals)
1991 4.65 3.7 GRAF/STICH
1992 4.48 3.7 GRAF/AGASSI
1993 3.74 3.1 GRAF/SAMPRAS
1995 3.54 3.0 GRAF/SAMPRAS
1996 2.91 2.5 GRAF/KRAJICEK (Lowest. It was Krajicek.)

Since these are averages of all telecasts from those years. They have to be compared to these numbers for the W Sisters.

2000 4.07 3.2 V. WILLIAMS/SAMPRAS (Highest)
2001 3.20 2.6 V. WILLIAMS/IVANISEVIC
2002 2.71 2.1 S. WILLIAMS/HEWITT
2003 2.49 2.0 S. WILLIAMS/FEDERER
2004 2.54 1.9 SHARAPOVA/FEDERER
2005 2.49 1.9 V. WILLIAMS/FEDERER
2007 2.29 1.7 V. WILLIAMS/FEDERER (Lowest with even the mighty Fed as the winner.)
2008 2.64 1.9 V. WILLIAMS/NADAL

Here is the source: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/pr_wimbledon_thru07.pdf.

Want more? How about these numbers for the French Open finals on NBC? What do they tell you?

Go to this link: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/130410

Graf vs Hingis got a rating of 3.1. Williams vs Williams, 2.8.

So, what do you have to say now?
 
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Steffi-forever

Hall of Fame
Oh yeah? Let's look at how Graf's TV ratings in the US compare to those of the Williams' Sisters:

US Open Ratings: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/114759. On the surface, these ratings would seem to justify your position, except for the fact that that 6.8 rating in 2001 was for a primetime match. None of Graf's finals were ever played in primetime.

So, the better way of comparing Graf to the W Sisters as "draws" would be to look at the average ratings for all telecasts in one year. That would tend to mitigate the influence of the primetime advantage that the women have had since 2001 since it takes the average of all the telecasts, meaning all the times that the network chooses to show the featured players (typically the finalists and winners) throughout the tournament. Here is the source for that information: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/sports/us-open-historic-television-ratings/

The highest rating for a year in which Graf won was 1988, the golden slam year, a 4.2 rating. (The men's winner that year was Wilander. So, it was probably all Graf.) The highest average rating for a year in which a Williams' sister won was 1999 with a 3.5 rating. (The men's winner was Agassi. So, it was probably just as much Agassi as Serena. The numbers from the Sports Business Daily would back up that deduction. Here is that link again: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/114759.)

By the way, if you go back to this link http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/sports/us-open-historic-television-ratings/, you'll see why Evert was clearly a bigger draw in the US than both Graf and the W Sisters.

More troubling facts for your point of view...

Wimbledon Ratings. Go to link http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/i...ticleID=131472.

The Davenport vs. Graf match in 1999 received a higher rating than any match featuring one or more Williams' sister. How can that be?

Here is more: US Viewership of Graf in Wimbledon Finals from 1988 to 1996

1988 4.29 3.6 GRAF/EDBERG
1989 4.56 3.9 GRAF/BECKER (Highest rating with two Germans in the Finals)
1991 4.65 3.7 GRAF/STICH
1992 4.48 3.7 GRAF/AGASSI
1993 3.74 3.1 GRAF/SAMPRAS
1995 3.54 3.0 GRAF/SAMPRAS
1996 2.91 2.5 GRAF/KRAJICEK (Lowest. It was Krajicek.)

Since these are averages of all telecasts from those years. They have to be compared to these numbers for the W Sisters.

2000 4.07 3.2 V. WILLIAMS/SAMPRAS (Highest)
2001 3.20 2.6 V. WILLIAMS/IVANISEVIC
2002 2.71 2.1 S. WILLIAMS/HEWITT
2003 2.49 2.0 S. WILLIAMS/FEDERER
2004 2.54 1.9 SHARAPOVA/FEDERER
2005 2.49 1.9 V. WILLIAMS/FEDERER
2007 2.29 1.7 V. WILLIAMS/FEDERER (Lowest with even the mighty Fed as the winner.)
2008 2.64 1.9 V. WILLIAMS/NADAL

Here is the source: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/pr_wimbledon_thru07.pdf.

Want more? How about these numbers for the French Open finals on NBC? What do they tell you?

Go to this link: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/130410

Graf vs Hingis got a rating of 3.1. Williams vs Williams, 2.8.

So, what do you have to say now?

Wow, thank you for sharing!
 

ProCoach

Rookie
LOL! Is there any doubt who the greatest female tennis player of all time is with her stats?!? How are the Williams sisters even mentioned in the same sentence? Not even close. Steffi even played when the other great, Navratilova, played and beat her thoroughly many, many times. No comparison in any way, shape or form. Graf wins this one hands down........
 

BTURNER

Legend
LOL! Is there any doubt who the greatest female tennis player of all time is with her stats?!? How are the Williams sisters even mentioned in the same sentence? Not even close. Steffi even played when the other great, Navratilova, played and beat her thoroughly many, many times. No comparison in any way, shape or form. Graf wins this one hands down........

But that is not quite what this thread discusses.I think there is legitiamte question about whether she is the best on all surfaces, ie grass or clay. By the way, even Evert and Navratilova feel the effects of time. Not sure all those victories reflect their best games.
 

ProCoach

Rookie
But that is not quite what this thread discusses.I think there is legitiamte question about whether she is the best on all surfaces, ie grass or clay. By the way, even Evert and Navratilova feel the effects of time. Not sure all those victories reflect their best games.

Sorry, I only saw the Williams sisters argument above and really had to laugh when I saw it. Having been up and close with so many professional tennis players in my time, I have to say that, athletically, Graf is the queen. Quite the sprinter and competitor. I was Hingis' hitting partner(Saddlebrook '99) when the meltdown occured against Graf. I watched an older Graf lay the smack down on a very talented Hingis. Crowd or no crowd, I believe Graf had that one won. Besides, Graf has a Golden Slam. Who else has done that? She was the Secretariat of tennis........
 

BTURNER

Legend
Sorry, I only saw the Williams sisters argument above and really had to laugh when I saw it. Having been up and close with so many professional tennis players in my time, I have to say that, athletically, Graf is the queen. Quite the sprinter and competitor. I was Hingis' hitting partner(Saddlebrook '99) when the meltdown occured against Graf. I watched an older Graf lay the smack down on a very talented Hingis. Crowd or no crowd, I believe Graf had that one won. Besides, Graf has a Golden Slam. Who else has done that? She was the Secretariat of tennis........

I am an odd duck. I give no greater credit for having won a 'golden slam' in one calender year than the same titles over two or three. condensing the time frame does not make the titles more impressive. I think the grand slam is rather arbitrary and artificial. Still I do believe she is the greatest player of all time because her achievements are so overwhelming and her attack on the record books is so broad with 4 or more majors on any surface. that impresses me!
 

pmerk34

Legend
Seles being there or out does not explain why she was losing so often to Sabatini, Novotna, an past her prime Navratilova, and Sanchez Vicario so often from 91-early 93. Obviously her own form was not up to its usual standards irregardless of Seles. Seles being gone also does not explain why Graf now playing much better was no longer losing to those players other than Sanchez once in awhile (in fact only twice when Graf was injured).

Seles being gone explains why Graf won the French Open in 1993.
 

ProCoach

Rookie
I am an odd duck. I give no greater credit for having won a 'golden slam' in one calender year than the same titles over two or three. condensing the time frame does not make the titles more impressive. I think the grand slam is rather arbitrary and artificial. Still I do believe she is the greatest player of all time because her achievements are so overwhelming and her attack on the record books is so broad with 4 or more majors on any surface. that impresses me!

Understandable, however, when you get to that high level of playing and understand what it takes to peak at the correct times and to live the lifestyle it requires to get there, you could probably change your tune. She mastered all comers on every surface that year. She won 35 matches in a row on all different surfaces to do it. She also won many more Grand Slams after that to prove that it was no fluke. The Golden Slam will not be done again. She did it. There have been opportunities for others to do the same. Who has done so? Noone. No man or woman has been able to accomplish it. That includes the great Federer. She stands heads and tails above the others. So, when trying to distinguish between the many greats, there has to be some shining achievement that says "I am unique and who else can do it". She is the only one............
 

pmerk34

Legend
Understandable, however, when you get to that high level of playing and understand what it takes to peak at the correct times and to live the lifestyle it requires to get there, you could probably change your tune. She mastered all comers on every surface that year. She won 35 matches in a row on all different surfaces to do it. She also won many more Grand Slams after that to prove that it was no fluke. The Golden Slam will not be done again. She did it. There have been opportunities for others to do the same. Who has done so? Noone. No man or woman has been able to accomplish it. That includes the great Federer. She stands heads and tails above the others. So, when trying to distinguish between the many greats, there has to be some shining achievement that says "I am unique and who else can do it". She is the only one............

She is also the only one to have her only real rival assaulted on court thus ruining her rivals career.
 

ProCoach

Rookie
She is also the only one to have her only real rival assaulted on court thus ruining her rivals career.

I have the utmost respect for Monica Seles. So does Graf. However, it would be nothing more than speculation for us to try and say things would be different. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
 

pmerk34

Legend
I have the utmost respect for Monica Seles. So does Graf. However, it would be nothing more than speculation for us to try and say things would be different. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.

Based on the fact that Monica had taken her number one ranking and beaten her in 3-4 last slam finals they met I highly doubt Graf would have run roughshod over her like she did the rest of the WTA after her stabbing.
 

ProCoach

Rookie
Based on the fact that Monica had taken her number one ranking and beaten her in 3-4 last slam finals they met I highly doubt Graf would have run roughshod over her like she did the rest of the WTA after her stabbing.

Most likely true.....
 

Joe Pike

Banned
Based on the fact that Monica had taken her number one ranking and beaten her in 3-4 last slam finals they met I highly doubt Graf would have run roughshod over her like she did the rest of the WTA after her stabbing.


Based on the fact that Steffi even had a winning H2H against #1 Seles while losing most of her matches against Sabatini and Navratilova during that time I highly doubt that Seles would have won many matches against Steffi in 1993-95 when Steffi was - as we all know - better than in 1991/92.
 

davey25

Banned
Graf lost the FO 1992 final with the narrowest possible margin.
But she was a better player in 1993.
This explains why she won FO 1993.

Plus if Chris Evert couldnt win 4 French Opens in a row I doubt Seles was going to do it. She also had her first serious illness since becoming #1 that spring which caused her to miss 6 weeks. Hamburg was actually her comeback event from that. As I have mentioned before Seles pre stabbing run of never having injuries or physical problems which is how things were for her for 2 years were not going to last forever. They dont for any player, let alone one not blessed with extraordinary athletic ability.
 

LDVTennis

Professional
Based on the fact that Monica had taken her number one ranking and beaten her in 3-4 last slam finals they met I highly doubt Graf would have run roughshod over her like she did the rest of the WTA after her stabbing.

As if that tells the whole story...

These two matches are also part of that story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFHwjWBNnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdeBBzhdPA

Who ran "roughshod" over whom in these matches?

But, keep trying. One day the past will be just how you dreamed it would be. --- :p
 

davey25

Banned
It is a shame Graf's injuries which prematurely cut short her prime by atleast 3 years (ending at the end of 96 when it should have lasted alot longer) prevented her from claiming the most singles Grand Slams record, the most French Opens record, tieing or breaking the most Wimbledons record, and claimin the most Open Era U.S Opens record. Although the most singles French Opens record should really be Chris's anyway as she would have won 10 of them had she played the French during the WTT years. It also denied her an additional Grand Slam in 1996.
 

BTURNER

Legend
Understandable, however, when you get to that high level of playing and understand what it takes to peak at the correct times and to live the lifestyle it requires to get there, you could probably change your tune. She mastered all comers on every surface that year. She won 35 matches in a row on all different surfaces to do it. She also won many more Grand Slams after that to prove that it was no fluke. The Golden Slam will not be done again. She did it. There have been opportunities for others to do the same. Who has done so? Noone. No man or woman has been able to accomplish it. That includes the great Federer. She stands heads and tails above the others. So, when trying to distinguish between the many greats, there has to be some shining achievement that says "I am unique and who else can do it". She is the only one............

Keep the 'golden' part out. the Olympics only happens once in four years and huge time frames did not even have tennis competing, let alone allow pros to compete. As for the grand slam , did Navratilova do so far less with 6 in a row, because the victories did not start with the calender year? I commend each of Graf's victories no less than you, but I commend them no more because they were consecutive. I really don't care if they were in a row or dispersed more broadly they still represent getting to taht high level of play and peaking at just the right moment.
 

ProCoach

Rookie
Keep the 'golden' part out. the Olympics only happens once in four years and huge time frames did not even have tennis competing, let alone allow pros to compete. As for the grand slam , did Navratilova do so far less with 6 in a row, because the victories did not start with the calender year? I commend each of Graf's victories no less than you, but I commend them no more because they were consecutive. I really don't care if they were in a row or dispersed more broadly they still represent getting to taht high level of play and peaking at just the right moment.

Why keep the "golden" part out? She stepped up to the plate and won something that every player wants to win. A tournament that happens every four years and you are playing it for your country. I think it is a very worthy piece. I spent much time working with some fine professional players at Bollettierri and Hopman Academy and after doing so, I have come to the conclusion that it is nearly impossible to do what Graf did. She dominated on all surfaces and continued to do so for years after the 1988 Slam. Longevity is commendable, but the fact is that she kept her level of play to such a high level for years. More proof needed? Here comes..........

Stefanie Maria Graf (born June 14, 1969, in Mannheim, Baden-Württemberg, West Germany) is a former World No. 1 female tennis player from Germany.

Graf won 22 Grand Slam singles titles, second among male and female players only to Margaret Court's 24. She is the only player to have won all four Grand Slam singles tournaments (Wimbledon, the US Open, the French Open and the Australian Open) at least four times each. In 1988, Graf became the first and only tennis player (male or female) to achieve the Calendar Year Golden Slam by winning all four Grand Slam singles titles and the Olympic gold medal in the same calendar year.

Graf was ranked World No. 1 by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) for a record 377 total weeks—the longest period for which any player, male or female, has held the number one ranking since the WTA and the Association of Tennis Professionals began issuing rankings. She also holds the open era record for finishing as the year-end World No. 1 the most times, having done so on eight occasions.[2] She won 107 singles titles, which ranks her third on the WTA's all-time list after Martina Navratilova (167 titles) and Chris Evert (154 titles).

A notable feature of Graf's game was her versatility across all playing surfaces. She won six French Open singles titles (second to Evert) and seven Wimbledon singles titles (third behind Navratilova and Helen Wills Moody). She is the only singles player to have achieved a Calendar Year Grand Slam while playing on all three major types of tennis courts (grass courts, clay courts and hard courts), as the Calendar Year Grand Slams won by other players before her occurred when the Australian and US Opens were still played on grass. Graf reached thirteen consecutive Grand Slam singles finals, from the 1987 French Open through to the 1990 French Open, winning nine of them. She played in 36 Grand Slam singles tournaments from the 1987 French Open, her first Grand Slam win, through the 1999 French Open, her last Grand Slam win, reaching the finals 29 times and winning 22 titles. She reached a total of 31 Grand Slam singles finals, third overall behind Evert (34 finals) and Navratilova (32 finals).[citation needed]

Graf is considered by some to be the greatest female player. Billie Jean King said in 1999, "Steffi is definitely the greatest women's tennis player of all time."[3] Martina Navratilova has included Graf on her list of great players.[4] In December 1999, Graf was named the greatest female tennis player of the 20th century by a panel of experts assembled by the Associated Press.[5] Tennis writer Steve Flink, in his book The Greatest Tennis Matches of the Twentieth Century, named her as the best female player of the 20th century.[6]
 
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BTURNER

Legend
How bout your respond to my points rather than retrieving Steffi's bio. Remember you are talking to someone who believes Graf is the GOAT, that she deserves credit for every one of her victories, and finds her accomplishments no less astounding than you but for their nature, not their timing. Had graf won her grand slam in 1989 and her olympic medal in 88, I would be just as impressed. Had she not quite managed to win a calender grand slam, but extended her major winning reign either earlier winning another in 87 or later by a year, I would be just as impressed. You are preaching to the choir.

Now back to the olympics, it was sheer luck that the olympics was held when she peaked pschologially over the field. Who has a clue how well , Marble, Gibsen, Brough, Connolly, Bueno, Court, King, Navatilova, Evert etc would have done at the olympics had they peaked while Pros could play in the summer olympics. We will never know because Graf was the first generation of player since forever to play for a medal!
1900 - Charlotte Cooper, Great Britain
1908 - Dorothea Chambers, Great Britain (outdoor event) and Gwendoline Eastlake-Smith, Great Britain (indoor event)
1912 - Marguerite Broquedis, France (outdoor) and Edith Hannam, Great Britain (indoor)
1920 - Suzanne Lenglen, France
1924 - Helen Wills Moody, United States

Between the 1928 Games and the 1984 Games, tennis appeared twice in the Olympics as a demostration sport and not as a medal sport.

1988 - Steffi Graf, West Germany
1992 - Jennifer Capriati, United States
1996 - Lindsay Davenport, United States
2000 - Venus Williams, United States
2004 - Justine Henin-Hardenne, Belgium

She got damn lucky!
 
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davey25

Banned
I agree the Golden Slam is overrated. The Olympics in tennis isnt even that major an event in itself really. The Grand Slam is phenomenal and that is what Graf really achieved, just as Court in 1970 and Connolly in 1953 were the only other two to achieve. It is too bad Steffi never got a 2nd Grand Slam. In 1995 and 1996 she won all 3 slams she played and probably would have won the Australian had she been able to play. In 1989 she should have won that French Open final.
 

KHSOLO

Semi-Pro
I just realized Graf played that funny bh slice like 99% of the time, she usually was playing all fhs

Didnt she have a topspin bh?
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
I just realized Graf played that funny bh slice like 99% of the time, she usually was playing all fhs

Didnt she have a topspin bh?

In the 80's she had a very nice topspin backhand, but as time went on she slowly seemed to faze it out in favor of the slice. Her topspin backhand was actually a really solid shot, and I am surprised she used it so little as she got older. The slice was effective, but had she continued to use a topspin backhand a little more frequently I think she would have been even more dangerous than she already was.
 

DMan

Professional
The Golden Slam Graf won in 1988 is neither lucky nor overrated. It is what is: the single most unique and spectacular achievement in tennis history!

First there is the pressure of sweeping all 4 majors in one year! There is actually MORE pressure when a time stamp is placed on the achievement - as opposed to winning them consecutively. (And let's please pause to remember that while Graf may not have won 6 consecutive majors like Navratilova, Graf did concurrently hold all 4 majors on two occasions! The only woman ever to do so!)

Second, when the pressure of playing in the Olympics, a once every four year event, is added to the mix, it should be clearly evident how difficult and grand such an achievement is. Look at who won the Olympics: Players like Mecir, Rosset, Capriati and Davenport when they weren't even top 5, Massu, Dementieva. Henin in 2004 was the only top seed to ever win an Olympic gold besides Graf. So the top ranked players don't always win Olympic Gold.

I wonder why Graf got lucky when she won her Olympic Gold? I mean she was only the best player in the world, and had only lost 2 matches in more than a year of competition.......but she was......lucky ? ! ? ! ?. Were Davenport, VWilliams, Capriati, Dementieva, and Henin all "lucky" when they won their Olympic Gold medals? And what was their problem, were they just "unlucky" in that they couldn't also sweep the 4 majors the same year they won the Olympic Gold? I mean if winning the Olympics and all 4 majors in the same year is such a non-starter, why haven't more folks followed in Graf's footsteps?
 
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davey25

Banned
The Olympics just isnt that big an event in tennis. Tennis has 4 Olympics a year which are bigger than the actual Olympics are to the sport. For someone like Dementieva it is bigger since she has been unable to even win a slam. The ATP awards less ranking points to the Olympics than they do a Masters event.
 

Joe Pike

Banned
It is a shame Graf's injuries which prematurely cut short her prime by atleast 3 years (ending at the end of 96 when it should have lasted alot longer) prevented her from claiming the most singles Grand Slams record, the most French Opens record, tieing or breaking the most Wimbledons record, and claimin the most Open Era U.S Opens record. Although the most singles French Opens record should really be Chris's anyway as she would have won 10 of them had she played the French during the WTT years. It also denied her an additional Grand Slam in 1996.


It may seem funny to say - but for me Steffi Graf is the biggest underachiever ever in women's tennis.

What many don't know is the fact that post-94 she had to cut back her exercising regime by about 50 percent. Her back and knee couldn't endure more suffering. So basically her matches were her exercise ...
 

Joe Pike

Banned
Keep the 'golden' part out. the Olympics only happens once in four years and huge time frames did not even have tennis competing, let alone allow pros to compete. ...

I would agree with you IF any player in the history of tennis had won all four slam tournaments in a Olympic year and been denied the Golden Grand Slam solely by the absence of tennis from the Olympics.

As a matter of fact there is no such player ...
 

Joe Pike

Banned
I just realized Graf played that funny bh slice like 99% of the time, she usually was playing all fhs

Didnt she have a topspin bh?


She had it when she needed it.

Go to youtube.com and look for "Navratilova", "Graf" and "Wimbledon".
Or just ask Martina ...
 

davey25

Banned
It may seem funny to say - but for me Steffi Graf is the biggest underachiever ever in women's tennis.

What many don't know is the fact that post-94 she had to cut back her exercising regime by about 50 percent. Her back and knee couldn't endure more suffering. So basically her matches were her exercise ...

Yeah I somewhat agree. It was very possible for Graf to have broken all the records other than relatively meaningless ones (Molla Mallorey's 8 U.S Opens which was won only because Lenglen by far the greatest player of that era almost never played there, or Court's 11 Australian Opens with 2 or 3 of the top 10 showing up each year). She was certainly on course to break or tie 9 Wimbledons, easily break 7 French Opens (though in fairness to Chris she would have won 10 but for WTT), easily break 24 slam wins. Even possible for her to approach the 160 tournaments won by Martina and Chris had she been able play full time from 94 onwards and if her health had allowed her to remain in top form atleast through 1999 even if she still wanted to retire around then.
 

dannykl

Rookie
The Golden Slam Graf won in 1988 is neither lucky nor overrated. It is what is: the single most unique and spectacular achievement in tennis history!

First there is the pressure of sweeping all 4 majors in one year! There is actually MORE pressure when a time stamp is placed on the achievement - as opposed to winning them consecutively. (And let's please pause to remember that while Graf may not have won 6 consecutive majors like Navratilova, Graf did concurrently hold all 4 majors on two occasions! The only woman ever to do so!)

Second, when the pressure of playing int he Olynmpics, a once every four year event, is added to the mix, it should be clearly evident how difficult and grand such an achievement is. Look at who won the Olympics: Players like Mecir, Rosset, Capriati and Davenport when they weren't even top 5, Massu, Dementieva. Henin in 2004 was the only top seed to ever win an Olympic gold besides Graf. So the top ranked players don't always win Olympic Gold.

I wonder why Graf got lucky when she won her Olympic Gold (she was only the best player int he world, and had only lost 2 matches in more than a year of competition.......but she was......lucky ? ! ? ! ?). Were Davenport, VWilliams, Capriati, Dementieva, and Henin all "lucky" when they wont heir Olympic Gold medals? And what was their problem, were they just "unlucky" in that they couldn't also sweep the 4 majors the same year they won the Olympic Gold? I mean if winning the Olympics and all 4 majors int he same year is such a non-starter, why haven't more folks followed in Graf's footsteps?

You are absolutely right. Players face more pressure of winning a grand slam in the same year.

And you are also absolutely right there is no guarantee the no.1 player will win the gold medal.Even a player as dominant as Federer still fails to win the gold medal. That makes Steffi's golden slam even more impressive than a normal calender grand slam. It is really an achievement even bigger than a calender grand slam.And the only achiever is Steffi Graf.
 
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