Easy Rider
Professional
Steffi seems like shes doing way more than needed
)))
Graf vs Fed Footwork
- Thread starter FailBetter
- Start date
)))Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
way to miss my point. I said this distinction between small steps and running doesn't matter at pro level. They know how to get into position. If they didn't, they wouldn't last very long at the pro level.
skaj
Legend
I think you are missing my point. They "know" how to get into position, but some know how to do it better than others. Some players are better at small steps (≈ footwork).
Awesome video. 100% of shots from before 2013, 95% from 2004-2006, his true Fearhand peak.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Missing the point again. Small steps isn't everything in footwork. Sliding and coming to a co ordinated step in time to get the ball is also footwork. Djokovic does that better than anyone on the men's side and especially Federer. What is the purpose of footwork but to be able to get to the ball in such a way that you are also able to get to the next in time and then the next. There are different ways to do that.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Video should be pinned at the top of GPPD for any clowns that think peak Federer is 2015 or 2017, lol.
MordredSJT
Rookie
Fed absolutely brutalizes Blake over and over in that video. He was so explosive back then.
skaj
Legend
I think you are missing some of my posts here, that seems to be the problem. I have explained that different people think different things when they talk about footwork. I myself and some other posters in this thread talk about the little quick steps that players make when positioning. It's an element of tennis movement, just like sliding, foot speed, court sense, coordination, balance, acceleration, anticipation...
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I am not missing the point, just pushing back. And my original comment wasn't to you but the other poster who made it out like small steps were the be all end all. I disagree with that. Like everything else in tennis, footwork is highly coordinated and instinctive.
skaj
Legend
In my last post I said that you were missing my posts(did not read some of them), not the point. I commented your comments on my posts in my last few posts, not your original comment.
Anyways, I think I've explained that it is a matter of terminology. Also, that footwork in the sense of the word I use, is one part of tennis movement.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
Y'all do realize that the video of Steffi is from AFTER her retirement right? That video was shot at Darling Tennis Center in the stadium court .... it was built in 2005.
I see her and Andre regularly there ... both great to watch and also very nice to us recreational players.
I see her and Andre regularly there ... both great to watch and also very nice to us recreational players.
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RaulRamirez
Legend
It's a good choice, but hard not to go with Fed's crisp, smooth, economical movement. Steffi was a treat to watch as well, though. And both possess(ed) legendary forehands, among other weapons.
It would be interesting to see more videos like the one isolating Graf's feet (okay, shoes). Henin also had a great flow, and going wayyyyy back, Goolagong floated beautifully. Other men? Borg had great footwork, and Edberg also comes to mind.
It would be interesting to see more videos like the one isolating Graf's feet (okay, shoes). Henin also had a great flow, and going wayyyyy back, Goolagong floated beautifully. Other men? Borg had great footwork, and Edberg also comes to mind.
skaj
Legend
Rosewall, Laver, Okker, Connors, Gerulaitis, McEnroe, Mecir, Chang, Pioline, Rios, Nalbandian.
Other women: Evert, Date, Hingis, more recently Su Wei Hsieh maybe.
chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
For a women Graf would be tops moreso than Federer among men IMO. Federer is outstanding, but Graf is the best ever female bar none in that area (a few might challenge her in raw speed but not in total footwork and precise footwork) and I am far from a Graf fan.
chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
I would not put Graf below Evert. She was just as effecient and economical, but additionaly much more explosive and fast when needed. More graceful too.
skaj
Legend
I still give the edge to Evert. The two of them and Hingis have the best footwork I've seen in the women's field; Date is up there too.
Graf of course was very fast too. I think only Clijsters comes close when it comes to combining precise footwork with tremendous speed(plus she is so flexible).33
tennis24x7
Hall of Fame
She is the female goat, calendar year GS with gold medal in the same year, called Golden Grand Slam
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
You nailed it. I am a Federer fan, but I find your rants about Fed's superiority at everything just as tiring as the rants of the Nadal brigade.
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chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
Date to me looked so awkward in everything she did, I cant possibly evaluate her objectively. Her footwork might be among the best ever, I just cant watch her seriously close up for long enough to tell. Watching her and her bizarre technique on everything was literally like watching a little old granny play, it is amazing how effective she was able to be. That isnt to say I didnt enjoy her, she was amusing and entertaining to say the least.
And given that as a 40 something granny she hit more winners than Venus in a match on grass, and beat one of the various joke #1s (Safina) in first round of RG on her worst surface, she probably had even more untapped potential if she didnt abruptly quit after 96 at only 25 (after her best year on tour to date). Didnt she post wins over Graf, Seles, Sanchez, Martinez, Novotna, and Hingis that year?
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Graf, Hingis, Henin were my favourites as far as footwork was concerned. I never watched Evert and Goolagong play, only watched some videos and their footwork was phenomenal as well. I have always believed that to judge a player's footwork one must look at their game on clay. Evert, Henin are two of the finest players on clay. Infact the original question should have compared (if it's ok comparing the men to women) these two against Federer.
In the practice footage of Graf that is often circulated you do not see how she hits her shots. While going to the backhand on the run I always thought Steffi's foot position gave it a very 'choppy' feel. If you see Henin, who has a one handed backhand too, it's smooth, much like Federer's fluid shots. Have a look at the backhand hit from Federer and Henin and observe their foot positions.
Vs Fraulein Forehand
In the last video it's almost like Graf hesitates to hit the shot and then goes for it. Very effective of course but not aesthetic enough.
On the whole, at least from the time I started following the sport, Fed and Henin take it easily.
I also believe that a one handed backhand makes us think that footwork is better in a sense. To me Rafa's footwork especially on clay is exceptional. Perfect balance. The same goes with Seles. Her game was not pleasing enough but she had wonderful presence on the court and she was extremely quick.
In the practice footage of Graf that is often circulated you do not see how she hits her shots. While going to the backhand on the run I always thought Steffi's foot position gave it a very 'choppy' feel. If you see Henin, who has a one handed backhand too, it's smooth, much like Federer's fluid shots. Have a look at the backhand hit from Federer and Henin and observe their foot positions.
Vs Fraulein Forehand
In the last video it's almost like Graf hesitates to hit the shot and then goes for it. Very effective of course but not aesthetic enough.
On the whole, at least from the time I started following the sport, Fed and Henin take it easily.
I also believe that a one handed backhand makes us think that footwork is better in a sense. To me Rafa's footwork especially on clay is exceptional. Perfect balance. The same goes with Seles. Her game was not pleasing enough but she had wonderful presence on the court and she was extremely quick.
70後
Hall of Fame
Graf's footwork was atrocious, bad, even compared to her contemporaries of her own era.
Years ago I observed this kind of manoeuvering in the forum politics :
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-created-steffi-graf-and-roger-federer.57337/
In the quasi political alliance between the Graf party and the Fed party, it always seemed the Graf party got way more out of that arrangement and were also mainly the initiators of politically cozying up to the Fed party by linking Graf with Fed. These two parties do not mainly have Fed and Graf in common and Federer and Graf also have little in common. The most efficient tennis player with the most sophisticated game of tennis ever vs an extremely inefficient player. The most creative and intelligent tennis player vs a completely uncreative player. So far as I could tell, the main thing the Graf party and one particular faction of the Fed party really agreed on were their mutual anti Serena politics. It was always quite bizarre to see attempts being made to link Graf with Fed.. Unless anti Serena politics outweigh all other considerations, if you are a Fed fan, what irritates you about Nadal should positively infuriate you about Graf. And what annoys you about Serena should absolutely appall you about Graf.
And we haven’t even gotten around to the Pete party and where they fit in the anti Serena coalition yet.
In recent years ever since Serena got to 22 and then to 23, there was a lot less of Graf -> Fed workings.
Years ago I observed this kind of manoeuvering in the forum politics :
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-created-steffi-graf-and-roger-federer.57337/
In the quasi political alliance between the Graf party and the Fed party, it always seemed the Graf party got way more out of that arrangement and were also mainly the initiators of politically cozying up to the Fed party by linking Graf with Fed. These two parties do not mainly have Fed and Graf in common and Federer and Graf also have little in common. The most efficient tennis player with the most sophisticated game of tennis ever vs an extremely inefficient player. The most creative and intelligent tennis player vs a completely uncreative player. So far as I could tell, the main thing the Graf party and one particular faction of the Fed party really agreed on were their mutual anti Serena politics. It was always quite bizarre to see attempts being made to link Graf with Fed.. Unless anti Serena politics outweigh all other considerations, if you are a Fed fan, what irritates you about Nadal should positively infuriate you about Graf. And what annoys you about Serena should absolutely appall you about Graf.
And we haven’t even gotten around to the Pete party and where they fit in the anti Serena coalition yet.
In recent years ever since Serena got to 22 and then to 23, there was a lot less of Graf -> Fed workings.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
Clicked on Stefi by mistake, no chance to change it.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
You will regret it for the rest of your life.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Lol, that's probably an earlier account of 90s clay/Fedfan34. As a Fed fan myself, I have never heard of this alliance and indeed consider Graf's tactical stubbornness infuriating to watch. That said, it would be an insult to Nadal to compare her with him for he is a lot shrewder and plays very high percentage which she didn't. In her tough losses to Seles, it was her impatience that got the better of her and pushed her into awful shot selection in the clutch. Like most Fed fans of my age group, Henin was my favourite and to even compare Graf's 88 backhand to Fed is laughable to say the least.
You on the other hand cannot conceal your irrational hatred for her by alluding to alliances and other conspiracy theories. Graf won Wimbledon 7 times. Surely if her footwork was atrocious, we would have seen her slip again and again or at least be frequently off balance on the slick grass of the 90s. You cannot be perpetually balanced AND quick and still have atrocious footwork. Graf was not textbook in the way Federer is but that doesn't also mean her footwork was atrocious. That would make Seles footwork atrocious too, unfortunately for you. After all, Graf pushed peak Seles all the way at RG in 1992. What is your excuse for that, French umpiring (nothing whatsoever to do with how Graf played)?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Note: The OP video shows Steffi in her mid-40s. Some 15 years after her retirement, I believe. Here's some earlier video:
skaj
Legend
Yes, Date was a great talent actually. Her strokes were unorthodox, but she had such an amazing counterpouching ability in her hands. (I think Steffi once said something like "she likes my pace".) Also, Kimiko was a skillful shot-maker, quick, smart, well coordinated; a weak server, but fantastic returner. She could have done much more, that is for sure.
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