Graphite Donnay Borg Pro

joe sch

joe sch

Legend
One of the great whatifs is what if Bjorn had not retired but transitioned to graphite like Johnny Mac did with the famous dunlop max 200g ? Would he have won many more slam championships and possibly set the bar higher for Sampras and Federer ?

Oh well, did not happen, as Bjorn retired rather than transition to the graphite era. Donnay had other plans and would have loved for Bjorn to transition to the Graphite Borg Pro. Its a beautiful stick. Too bad its not now as famous as the dunlop max 200g and Prostaff 6.0. Could have been if only Bjorn did not retire. Bjorn did attempt a comeback after a few years of retirement but he still could not adapt to the graphite era and new playing styles.

Here is a look at what could have been:

http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad46/woodtennis/tennis/rackets/donnay_borg_pro/graphite borg pro/
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
This graphite Borg Pro is not a full composite like the print on the shaft suggests.
It's merely a wood composite!!
 
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Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
Funny, you mention the Pro Staff together with Donnay.
Donnay happened to be the first manufacturer of the Wilson PS 85. Their buttcap codes ended with a "B".
This was the first attempt to make the kevlar/braided graphite mix and Belgium was a sort of experiment lab to get the process right. Unfortunately these Belgium made PS 85's are not very sturdy and suffer from cracks in the shaft section.
Therefore, undamaged ones are hard to find and should be worth a small fortune to a serious collector.
 
B

big ted

Hall of Fame
i have found some of those early donnay mid racquets to be very flexible, different then the standard borg pro (and his was even reinforced)..so im not sure he would have liked them and donnay probably would have made a special racquet for him if he kept playing. i do think he could have won at least 2-3 more gs tournaments. his game seemed to be more about consistency instead of power, so when the power game started in 84-85, not sure how he would do. he stood far back and used a large backswing on his groundstrokes, not sure how that would work in the lendl/becker era. mac and connors could seem to adapt because they had short and simple backswings, but esp borgs follow-thru on his backhand was so long he even had to change it sometime after his comeback because the ball would come back so fast he wouldnt have time to hit the next shot. players like nadal have large backswings but their racquet head speed is so much greater (in my opinion)
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
^^^ Borg kept playing his trusted Allwood with a Borg Pro paintjob and later, when he was planning a comeback, he was supposed to play with a racket called the Black Crystal.
Apparently developed by an Adidas engineer in Hong Kong.
This never happened because when Borg came back to the circuit in 1991 he played a Borg Pro wood frame that was rebuilt by Grays, he was humiliated on the court and quit tennis after that.
 
Virginia

Virginia

Hall of Fame
Hannah19 said:
This graphite Borg Pro is not a full composite like the print on the shaft suggests.
It's merely a wood composite!!
Click to expand...
My version of this racquet mentions that it is a wood composite - also, the name on the top of the hoop is "Borg Pro 25 S" - it also says "midsize" on the handle. Presumably this is a later version.

I also have a "Graphite Borg" composite, but this one has a different headshape. Perhaps I should post photos of the two, side by side.
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
^^ I've got a new Borg Mid, as in the pics from Joe Sch, on the big site. This is indeed a wood composite.
The Graphite Borg looks similar but is sleeker in the shoulders and unmistakebly a full composite.
Having those two together in a picture would be nice, Virginia
 
R

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
I believe Donnay put the Borg name and segmented red to orange graphics over black on approximately as many various frames as Dunlop did with Johnny Mac's name. There are numerous various iterations from balsa-like flimsy open-throat wood midsizes, to solid graphite-boron full synthetic composite mids.
 
JUAN_PRADO

JUAN_PRADO

Rookie
i nevr use this frame but are like the gcx im not sure if is the real name a silver graphite fram eof the earlyes 80s
 
joe sch

joe sch

Legend
JUAN_PRADO said:
i nevr use this frame but are like the gcx im not sure if is the real name a silver graphite fram eof the earlyes 80s
Click to expand...
I don't have the specs but believe the GCX models have larger head size with more open string pattern which makes if easier for the common player to get borg like topspin.
 
ericsson

ericsson

Hall of Fame
Hannah19 said:
^^^ Borg kept playing his trusted Allwood with a Borg Pro paintjob and later, when he was planning a comeback, he was supposed to play with a racket called the Black Crystal.
Apparently developed by an Adidas engineer in Hong Kong.
This never happened because when Borg came back to the circuit in 1991 he played a Borg Pro wood frame that was rebuilt by Grays, he was humiliated on the court and quit tennis after that.
Click to expand...
He also used the Donnay Pro One Mid and the original international in 1992...
 
T

TMR

Rookie
I have a Donnay Graphite Borg , 16 x 19 string pattern, with 4 pairs of grommets on the bottom hoop (8 holes.)
Does any one know what is the best replacement grommet set for this racquet?
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
Equijet said:
Ericsson and Hannah19, I have the Black Crystal of Bjorn Borg, it's interesting racket. :)
Click to expand...
Is that the original Black Crystal or the look a like that was on sale a few months ago via Rodney Lack?
This dark blue/greenish version has no Adidas markings on it but looks the same as the Black Crystal. Appparently someone bought the model rights and started to fabricate it under an unkown brand name.
 
E

Equijet

Rookie
Hannah19 said:
Is that the original Black Crystal or the look a like that was on sale a few months ago via Rodney Lack?
This dark blue/greenish version has no Adidas markings on it but looks the same as the Black Crystal. Appparently someone bought the model rights and started to fabricate it under an unkown brand name.
Click to expand...
The dark blue/greenish version what you mentioned was not Bjorn Borg actually used.
The authentic Black Crystal is completely pure black with
sliver marking of Bjorn Borg's Autograph on the racket shaft.
I'll show the pictures of my Black Crystal on TT forum later
(hope won't take too long time...). :)
 
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joe sch

joe sch

Legend
Hannah19 said:
This graphite Borg Pro is not a full composite like the print on the shaft suggests.
It's merely a wood composite!!
Click to expand...
Very good point, infact that is what makes some of these graphite transitional rackets soo sweet, like the max 200g
Whats the composition of the Black Crystal ?
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
joe sch said:
Very good point, infact that is what makes some of these graphite transitional rackets soo sweet, like the max 200g
Whats the composition of the Black Crystal ?
Click to expand...
Kuebler Book has the following info on the Black Crystal:
" The following Bjorn Borg racket is probably not a genuine Adidas frame.
It is said that it was designed by an Adidas development engineer in the Far East (Dennis C.S. Chen). A Graphite construction with US patent No.: 5100 136 dated March 1992 with slits in the sides of the head and at the throat bridge. Inserts of rubber are located there for damping purposes.
Manufactured: 1992.
 
B

big ted

Hall of Fame
Equijet said:
The dark blue/greenish version what you mentioned was not Bjorn Borg actually used.
The authentic Black Crystal is completely pure black with
sliver marking of Bjorn Borg's Autograph on the racket shaft.
I'll show the pictures of my Black Crystal on TT forum later
(hope won't take too long time...). :)
Click to expand...

i am a fan of borg but have never seen this racquet did you say you had a picture? :)
 
Hannah19

Hannah19

Professional
big ted said:
i am a fan of borg but have never seen this racquet did you say you had a picture? :)
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Borg never actually played the Black Crystal.
Maybe a prototype version was made with his signature on it as Equijet described.
The racket is mainly black with red slits in the 3, 6 and 9 'o clock positions where the stringing is staggered to avoid the strings hitting the red and yellow inserts.
The bumperguard looks like the capped version from Head and it extends towards the throat. Only at the 3 and 9 'o clock positions it's left out.
The shafts look a bit like the Pro Kennex Destiny rackets.
 
B

big ted

Hall of Fame
Hannah19 said:
I'm pretty sure Borg never actually played the Black Crystal.
Maybe a prototype version was made with his signature on it as Equijet described.
The racket is mainly black with red slits in the 3, 6 and 9 'o clock positions where the stringing is staggered to avoid the strings hitting the red and yellow inserts.
The bumperguard looks like the capped version from Head and it extends towards the throat. Only at the 3 and 9 'o clock positions it's left out.
The shafts look a bit like the Pro Kennex Destiny rackets.
Click to expand...
oh ok i thought it was the standard size black frame he used when he first tried to comeback but that was the greys racquet
 
B

Bdole

Rookie
Virginia said:
My version of this racquet mentions that it is a wood composite - also, the name on the top of the hoop is "Borg Pro 25 S" - it also says "midsize" on the handle. Presumably this is a later version.

I also have a "Graphite Borg" composite, but this one has a different headshape. Perhaps I should post photos of the two, side by side.
Click to expand...
Virginia,

Could you comment as to how the all-graphite Borg and the graphite-wood composite Borg racquets play? I understand they both have a good amount of flex. Do they have the nice ball strike feeling of a Pro Cynetic, Pro Staff, Redondo, etc.? Instability given the head light balance combined with small head size?

Any comments are much appreciated!
 
joe sch

joe sch

Legend
Bdole said:
Virginia,

Could you comment as to how the all-graphite Borg and the graphite-wood composite Borg racquets play? I understand they both have a good amount of flex. Do they have the nice ball strike feeling of a Pro Cynetic, Pro Staff, Redondo, etc.? Instability given the head light balance combined with small head size?

Any comments are much appreciated!
Click to expand...
I have many of the diff graphite borg rackets and can tell you they all play more flexible than the Pro Cynetic, Pro Staff, Redondo models. They play closer to wood rackets especially the models with wood filler like the one that Virginia discussed. if you want to experience the play of a classic woody but don't have the skill to hit out with a 65" head then get a transitional midsize composite racket and you will still have a great hitting experience.

The model that I started this thread about shown below:

http://s920.photobucket.com/user/woodtennis/library/tennis/rackets/donnay_borg_pro/graphite borg pro?sort=3&page=1

is a great racket for the collector or player since its sorta between the donnay borg pro (DBP) wood and the pro staff racket in playability and flex.
I think its a super racket to display next to the classic DBP like I show in the photo link.
 
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BGod

BGod

Legend
Nearly bought this a while back and ended up with a few Dunlops instead, early 90s variety.
 
R

Repulse64

New User
Hannah19 said:
^^^ Borg kept playing his trusted Allwood with a Borg Pro paintjob and later, when he was planning a comeback, he was supposed to play with a racket called the Black Crystal.
Apparently developed by an Adidas engineer in Hong Kong.
This never happened because when Borg came back to the circuit in 1991 he played a Borg Pro wood frame that was rebuilt by Grays, he was humiliated on the court and quit tennis after that.
Click to expand...
hallo, I'm looking for the Black Crystal Bjorn Borg, can you help me, please?
 
S

swick

New User
admittedly no longer a tennis player , I recently brought most of my old rackets to goodwill, but i kept 3-4 including
one of the Borg signature Black Crystal.

I can't figure out how to upload pictures
with this forum. It's asking for an http address , but i have the pictures on my phone.
 
teachingprotx

teachingprotx

Hall of Fame
big ted said:
i have found some of those early donnay mid racquets to be very flexible, different then the standard borg pro (and his was even reinforced)..so im not sure he would have liked them and donnay probably would have made a special racquet for him if he kept playing. i do think he could have won at least 2-3 more gs tournaments. his game seemed to be more about consistency instead of power, so when the power game started in 84-85, not sure how he would do. he stood far back and used a large backswing on his groundstrokes, not sure how that would work in the lendl/becker era. mac and connors could seem to adapt because they had short and simple backswings, but esp borgs follow-thru on his backhand was so long he even had to change it sometime after his comeback because the ball would come back so fast he wouldnt have time to hit the next shot. players like nadal have large backswings but their racquet head speed is so much greater (in my opinion)
Click to expand...
Becker had the biggest backswing in his forehand I’ve ever seen and high and super cool . I still think that is the shot that was and still is the pro tennis worlds most underrated shot by any pro ever . It’s poetry in Motion .
Plus I think m roanic copies it or his JR delevopment coach mimicked it .

The way they both take it back high and strings face both the court and the back drop with a cocked wrist is remarkably similar. I too personally copied this as best I could and still do .as I get the best results with this same technique. Style points are a bonus :)
I too wonder if borg would have stayed longer with the wood . Results? Yes I think so .. I’m not sure as I wasn’t around then . But I can only speculate that if mecir was still rocking the snaiwaert till 1990? Ish. Why not borg well into the mid to late 80’s.
Mecirs stick I bet was a similar stiffness to the re-unforced donnay. Albeit being strung almost twice as tight . But still . I think borg was consistent but from what I saw he was blasting the forehand on inside outs .. for winners too. And I’ve played with lendls kneissl and it wasn’t that much more powerful than my borg pro . If at all .. but maybe I’m way off .another player too that played with a wood -well might as well have been due to the composition was wilander .
I swear my Donnay flex pro was more powerful than my rossi f200..
At least my experiences anyway ..
Point being I think many a pro back then could have done remarkably well still playing with woods . More so than we think .
I wonder if jimmy arias ever thinks back and says why did I ever switch from my woods .
He had a borg pro I believe . And his wood was the most flexible RA 22folks . Yep 22 ..
22 and if you have ever seen any footage of him hitting his forehand with that thing is nothing more than absolute athletic perfection .
 
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joe sch

joe sch

Legend
teachingprotx said:
Becker had the biggest backswing in his forehand I’ve ever seen and high and super cool . I still think that is the shot that was and still is the pro tennis worlds most underrated shot by any pro ever . It’s poetry in Motion .
Plus I think m roanic copies it or his JR delevopment coach mimicked it .

The way they both take it back high and strings face both the court and the back drop with a cocked wrist is remarkably similar. I too personally copied this as best I could and still do .as I get the best results with this same technique. Style points are a bonus :)
I too wonder if borg would have stayed longer with the wood . Results? Yes I think so .. I’m not sure as I wasn’t around then . But I can only speculate that if mecir was still rocking the snaiwaert till 1990? Ish. Why not borg well into the mid to late 80’s.
Mecirs stick I bet was a similar stiffness to the re-unforced donnay. Albeit being strung almost twice as tight . But still . I think borg was consistent but from what I saw he was blasting the forehand on inside outs .. for winners too. And I’ve played with lendls kneissl and it wasn’t that much more powerful than my borg pro . If at all .. but maybe I’m way off .another player too that played with a wood -well might as well have been due to the composition was wilander .
I swear my Donnay flex pro was more powerful than my rossi f200..
At least my experiences anyway ..
Point being I think many a pro back then could have done remarkably well still playing with woods . More so than we think .
I wonder if jimmy arias ever thinks back and says why did I ever switch from my woods .
He had a borg pro I believe . And his wood was the most flexible RA 22folks . Yep 22 ..
22 and if you have ever seen any footage of him hitting his forehand with that thing is nothing more than absolute athletic perfection .
Click to expand...
Interesting that this 2012 thread has been revived a few times over the last 8 years.
RE: Arias Donnay Borg Pro DBP was actually a paint job ontop of Wilson JKA. I have one in my collection.
 
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E

es-335

New User
(Sorry for the continued off- topic Arias retired in 1994, but came back in 1995, using..... wood racquets. I assume the Pro Staff is the Jack Kramer Pro Starr )

The wooden racket adventure began last year when his younger brother, Kevin, was experimenting with a Pro Staff. Arias got interested, but it took a week to get used to playing with the small head and the lack of power.

"The first time I hit my backhand with it, I literally could not get it over the net. You need to get your arm real relaxed and just let it fly. And if you're up at the net, you've got to hit the sweet spot or you won't get anything on the ball."

He attracted a lot of attention at Memphis, where he had the feeling people were laughing at him. But if you're going to be a throwback, you might as use throwback equipment.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1995-03-19-9503180292-story.html
 
joe sch

joe sch

Legend
joe sch

joe sch

Legend
Getting this thread back on subject, I will quote Hannah19 below who may not be a member still (cant @{user} )
Is not a wood composite a full composite? How many diff materials need to be laminated? Maybe braided is best tech? I believe current hard carbon is a heat treated composition.

This graphite Borg Pro is not a full composite like the print on the shaft suggests.
It's merely a wood composite!!
 
teachingprotx

teachingprotx

Hall of Fame
According to tennis racquet finder the ( jimmy arias ) donnay borg pro was a 22 RA. Amazing . That is the lowest RA - I’ve ever seen / Donnay borg prob or Wilson Kramer staff .
 
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