Grass Masters 1000?

FlashFlare11

FlashFlare11

Hall of Fame
Sorry if this question has been asked many times before, but I, myself, haven't seen it asked before.

Why isn't there a grass Masters event?

I believe it would be beneficial to those playing at Wimbledon and it would raise the legitimacy of grass as a surface on the tour.
 
FlashFlare11 said:
Sorry if this question has been asked many times before, but I, myself, haven't seen it asked before.

Why isn't there a grass Masters event?

I believe it would be beneficial to those playing at Wimbledon and it would raise the legitimacy of grass as a surface on the tour.
Click to expand...

There isn't even a grass 500.

I don't think any of the grass tournaments meet the minimum infrastructure requirements for an MS 1000 event.
 
There should be a 1000 level tournament on grass.

Rearrange the schedule and find a venue so that there is one.
 
VGP said:
There should be a 1000 level tournament on grass.

Rearrange the schedule and find a venue so that there is one.
Click to expand...

My idea is, perhaps, downgrade Miami to a 250/500, move all the clay events up by one week, push Wimbledon back by two weeks, possibly have Queens or Halle upgraded to a 500 event, and add in a grass 1000 event.

My question is, though, what should the grass play like? As much as we need true fast-surface events, I doubt the players would be happy to play on a different grass than the one played on at Wimbledon (slow grass).
 
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

i like the idea of an indoor major in China
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

Did you just say get rid of Wimbledon?????
Hell, let's get rid of Tennis altogether then!Come on, you cannot be serious:)
The carpet idea is cool, but you don't mess with Wimbledon.That is the last tournament to get the axe.
 
There's no way the ATP/WTA tours would downgrade Miami.

I'm too much of a traditionalist to get rid of Wimbledon. That is the history of the game. Before it was tennis it was real tennis and for those waiting to get it to play real tennis, they played lawn tennis. Wimbledon is the epitome of lawn tennis. Three of the four majors were played on grass.

Can they push Wimbledon back a week? I know that would suck for Newport or the bunch of clay court events that happen after Wimbledon, but still.
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

I doubt any of the players would want another hardcourt slam. It's way too difficult on their bodies. With Nadal and Murray asking for a shorter schedule and more fast-surface events, I doubt this would ever pass.
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

No wimbledon? Are you on drugs?
 
batz said:
There isn't even a grass 500.

I don't think any of the grass tournaments meet the minimum infrastructure requirements for an MS 1000 event.
Click to expand...

They could use artificial grass, as real grass is obviously difficult to maintain, especially if it is only there for one important tennis tournament per year.

Barring that though, they should have a Masters on carpet. In fact I think the entire post-US Open Season should be played on carpet. The amount of hard court tournaments is insane.
 
TTMR said:
They could use artificial grass, as real grass is obviously difficult to maintain, especially if it is only there for one important tennis tournament per year.

Barring that though, they should have a Masters on carpet. In fact I think the entire post-US Open Season should be played on carpet. The amount of hard court tournaments is insane.
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Carpet was effectively banned as an ATP level surface about 3 years ago. It was deemed to be the most unforgiving surface for players' bodies.
 
Wimbledon is arguably the highlight of the tennis calender. Are you insane?

Oh, and having played on indoor carpet, it is a crap surface to play on. Unpredictable surface and I just find it an awkward too sticky a surface to move on. I'd rather play tennis on ice. Rubbish.
 
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batz said:
Carpet was effectively banned as an ATP level surface about 3 years ago. It was deemed to be the most unforgiving surface for players' bodies.
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Interesting. What characteristics of carpet are particularly dangerous or harmful to the players?
 
TTMR said:
Interesting. What characteristics of carpet are particularly dangerous or harmful to the players?
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I honestly have no idea my friend, but there are now zero carpet events on the ATP Tour - I think the last one was in 2009.
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

You better keep that idea to yourself dude. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
 
How many clay MS 1000 are there? 3? 4?

How many grass MS 1000 are there?

Imagine if there were 3-4 MS 1000 grass tournaments every year, Federer would outclass Nadal in this department to since he would get all of them from 2004-2007 he would have around 26-28 MS titles.
 
ollinger said:
I have a better idea, one that brings the sport into the 21st century. No more grass courts at all, get rid of Wimbledon, the fourth slam to be an all-indoor event played on carpet in a multi-arena complex to be built in China. The slams should reflect the major aspects of the game, and indoor carpet is a much larger part of the game now than grass. And the Chinese would cheerfully build an immense complex of indoor arenas to get the prestigious event they so clearly covet.
Click to expand...

(It is more likely that the future circuit will have less hardcourts, not more, now that we know the injuries hardcourts cause. They should get rid of Indian Wells/Miami, start the clay season earlier, and extend the grass season)
 
There should be more grass tournaments. And there should be more carpet tournaments.

Reduce hardcourt and clay. 3 clay masters in 5 weeks is too much.
 
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
How many clay MS 1000 are there? 3? 4?

How many grass MS 1000 are there?

Imagine if there were 3-4 MS 1000 grass tournaments every year, Federer would outclass Nadal in this department to since he would get all of them from 2004-2007 he would have around 26-28 MS titles.
Click to expand...

(Even 20-year-old Nadal with only 4 matches of grasscourt experience was taking a set off Federer. And 21-year-old Nadal took him to 5 sets. And beat him the year after. You better hope Federer and Nadal never meet again at Wimbledon......because by the end of their careers, Nadal will probably lead Federer 4-2 on grass, especially now that Federer is declining faster on grass than any other surface - 2 straight Wimbledon QF defeats. Actually did you know Federer has lost in the FIRST ROUND of Wimbledon 3 times?)
 
BULLZ1LLA said:
(Even 20-year-old Nadal with only 4 matches of grasscourt experience was taking a set off Federer. And 21-year-old Nadal took him to 5 sets. And beat him the year after. You better hope Federer and Nadal never meet again at Wimbledon......because by the end of their careers, Nadal will probably lead Federer 4-2 on grass, especially now that Federer is declining faster on grass than any other surface - 2 straight Wimbledon QF defeats. Actually did you know Federer has lost in the FIRST ROUND of Wimbledon 3 times?)
Click to expand...

Yes of course i know, before he learned how to handle the grass.

My point still stands.

Again, i know, but he isnt in his prime anymore.
 
Get rid of Monte Carlo worst 1000 ever. Then make Queens start about half way through the first week of the grass court season. So on a Tuesday for the first rounds but the seeds don't play until Wednesday. The Final would be on either a Monday or Tuesday of next week. Sure the scheduling is whacky but the players (big 3) would get enough rest between French Open and Wimbledon
 
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
How many clay MS 1000 are there? 3? 4?

How many grass MS 1000 are there?

Imagine if there were 3-4 MS 1000 grass tournaments every year, Federer would outclass Nadal in this department to since he would get all of them from 2004-2007 he would have around 26-28 MS titles.
Click to expand...

You're a tennis fan and you don't know how many clay MS there are? :oops:

And I seriously doubt Fed would get them ALL in the 2004-2007 period. If Nadal couldn't get ALL the clay MS in the 2005-2008 period(to give an example, I could extend it to 2011 as well), I doubt Fed could on grass.
And when you tally up the numbers with the grass MS, make sure to half Fed's potential HC MS since HC MS will be scrapped to make way for grass, not clay.

An ideal situation would be 3 grass, 3 clay, 3 HC as far as MS's go.

I find it funny how some of the most ardent fed fans want to cut out clay MS when it's the HC that's hogging all the space for the grass MS with 6 out of 9 MS being played on this surface. To me, the only prestigious HC MS are IW,Miami and Cincy.
 
Kaz00 said:
Get rid of Monte Carlo worst 1000 ever. Then make Queens start about half way through the first week of the grass court season. So on a Tuesday for the first rounds but the seeds don't play until Wednesday. The Final would be on either a Monday or Tuesday of next week. Sure the scheduling is whacky but the players (big 3) would get enough rest between French Open and Wimbledon
Click to expand...

Ever?

Very few tournaments on tour have Monte Carlo's tradition, it has been played since 1897 and despite it being non-mandatory since 2009, most top players still show up for it. What does that tell you? If it's so crappy, why don't they skip it and go straight to next clay MS?

Despite MC being "the worst 1000 ever", since 2005:
- Roger has played there 6 times .
- Nadal 7 times.
- Davydenko 5 times.
- Djokovic 6 times.
- Ferrer 7 times.

And I could go on. And this applies for the post 2009 period. So even when given a choice of not entering, most top players still play this event. I wonder why. Compare it to the year end MS events like Paris where players arrive tired and either tank matches or invent some injuries to get off the hook and not play this mandatory event.

People, stop trying to cut into the clay season. It's length is what every surface season should aspire to be, it has 1 GS, 3 MS, couple of 500 and 250 events here and there. For all the grass lovers, HC is hogging all your space, not clay. The HC season is too bloated, with 2 GS, WTF, 6 MS and countless other 500 and 250 events. 60% of the time we are watching tennis on a hardcourt yet clay is to blame that there are so few grass events? LAWL.
 
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
How many clay MS 1000 are there? 3? 4?

How many grass MS 1000 are there?

Imagine if there were 3-4 MS 1000 grass tournaments every year, Federer would outclass Nadal in this department to since he would get all of them from 2004-2007 he would have around 26-28 MS titles.
Click to expand...

I concur... Federer would have the record for Masters Series.
 
(Another Fedal **** war...BORING)

Seriously, we actually have a wealthy innovator involved in tennis. Larry Ellison of Oracle has taken over the IW event and done wonderful innovations including installing the necessary technology for the challenge system on ALL courts. Perhaps he is the type of visionary, a la Lamar Hunt, to affect a change to a "grass court season". The idea of a Fifth Major on synthetic grass could be something to tackle. You can't move Wimbledon's spot on the schedule so the season would have to be independent of SW19.

I've yet to play on any of the new surfaces touted by their manufacturers as being incredibly easier on the body. I did play on carpet (Supreme Court used at MSG Masters). Very EASY on the legs. Ball bounce consistency is totally dependent on the base layer below the carpet... My venue was wood-planks base layer so you learned the "dead spots". Also, like clay & HC, line shots bounce differently.
 
There isn't a one because the grass season is too short. If you want to add masters to grass season, it obviously should be a week away from RG and SW19, that requires a 3 week gap between those two majors. Even in that case, the top players would surely skip the lesser tournaments in the weeks between, which is not good for tournament organisers. And if someone wants to rest/heal after RG until SW19, like Roger did a few times?
There is absolutely no space for grass masters now. It will take 4 week gap between Paris and Wimbledon to make proper schedule, and there is not enough of grass tournaments to fill it. Not to mention moving majors from their usual dates and moving all the tournaments before and after them, also prolonging the entire season for two more weeks.
As you may know there are a few schedule issues even without grass masters tournament.
In the end it is just the result of unpopularity of grass surface, which is difficult to look after.
 
namelessone said:
Ever?

Very few tournaments on tour have Monte Carlo's tradition, it has been played since 1897 and despite it being non-mandatory since 2009, most top players still show up for it. What does that tell you? If it's so crappy, why don't they skip it and go straight to next clay MS?

Despite MC being "the worst 1000 ever", since 2005:
- Roger has played there 6 times .
- Nadal 7 times.
- Davydenko 5 times.
- Djokovic 6 times.
- Ferrer 7 times.

And I could go on. And this applies for the post 2009 period. So even when given a choice of not entering, most top players still play this event. I wonder why. Compare it to the year end MS events like Paris where players arrive tired and either tank matches or invent some injuries to get off the hook and not play this mandatory event.

People, stop trying to cut into the clay season. It's length is what every surface season should aspire to be, it has 1 GS, 3 MS, couple of 500 and 250 events here and there. For all the grass lovers, HC is hogging all your space, not clay. The HC season is too bloated, with 2 GS, WTF, 6 MS and countless other 500 and 250 events. 60% of the time we are watching tennis on a hardcourt yet clay is to blame that there are so few grass events? LAWL.
Click to expand...

Monte Carlo has the most beautiful venue in tennis by far. They should have picked Madrid, or better, some hard court tournament as the non-mandatory event.
 
People talk about grass as if real people outside of a few clubs in England and elsewhere played on it.

Real people do play on clay and on hardcourt so grass is obsolete and is adequately represented in the season.
 
namelessone said:
To me, the only prestigious HC MS are IW,Miami and Cincy.
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I would have to include Canada. The Rogers Cup actually has the prestige of being the oldest of all the MS tournaments dating back to 1881. It has been played and won by nearly all the top players in the last decade.
 
zagor said:
Just make Queens a masters tourney, problem (partially) solved.
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I think they would have to expand the facilities there first to accommodate a larger intake and build more tennis courts to meet required MS standards.

As things stand, Halle is the larger of the two venues and probably nearer meeting MS requirements.
 
Masters events, except MC, are compulsory; and why would the Queens Club won't such an event?

Indian Wells exists currently because of a billionaire's philanthropy.

No money for a rival to Wimby, but for a lead-up, yes.
 
Bartelby said:
People talk about grass as if real people outside of a few clubs in England and elsewhere played on it.

Real people do play on clay and on hardcourt so grass is obsolete and is adequately represented in the season.
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Stop for a moment and visualize a modernization of the game...it has and continues to evolve in racquets and strings...there's always room for it to evolve in the surfaces the pros and common players compete on. Clay and HC are not the only alternatives to the "obsolete" natural grass.
 
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