Grass vs Clay vs hard

[Johnny Foreigner]

I have to admit i haven't really been watching tennis that long.
I usually only watch the best players, but know the basics.

I've been hearing a lot about clay/grass/hard court specialists.

Just wondering what everybody thinks is the hardest feat,
*clay court player winning on grass/hard
*grass court player winning on clay/hard
*hard court player winning on grass/clay.

Also who do u think is the best players to have conquered all

 

[mattp420]

Don't know the answer to your first question about hardest feat, but Agassi probably is the best player to have conquered all.

Federer is also a good pick as he's been the 2nd best clay courter for the last couple years or so.

Nadal's current 5 championships streak across all 3 surfaces makes a good argument also.

 

[Nadal_Monfils]

I'd say the greatest feat is a clay court player winning on grass. Borg's achievement of this feat was the most impressive to me because the clay and grass were extremely polarized back then and he won the French-Wimbledon double three times.

 

[oranges]

Given the changes to grass over the years, I'd say clay-hard have become more of the opposites, meaning that claycourters will have the most difficult time on hard and vice versa. Not too many typical grasscourters today.

I consider Agassi achievement huge -- not only did he win all four GS, but the Wimbledon one was old grass, beating Becker, McEnroe and Ivanisevic on the way

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Given the changes to grass over the years, I'd say clay-hard have become more of the opposites, meaning that claycourters will have the most difficult time on hard and vice versa. Not too many typical grasscourters today.

I consider Agassi achievement huge -- not only did he win all four GS, but the Wimbledon one was old grass, beating Becker, McEnroe and Ivanisevic on the way

Ridiculous statement to belittle Nadal's accomplishments. Wimbledon is faster than the US Open. Basing your argument on Nadal struggling on hardcourts while ignoring all the other clay courters that prefer hard over grass is very narrow-minded. Ferrero, Moya, Ferrer, Andreev, Davyendko, and etc. Btw I think the hardest feat is grass/hard courters to clay since they are not used to sliding.

 

[Cenc]

Ridiculous statement to belittle Nadal's accomplishments. Wimbledon is faster than the US Open. Basing your argument on Nadal struggling on hardcourts while ignoring all the other clay courters that prefer hard over grass is very narrow-minded. Ferrero, Moya, Ferrer, Andreev, Davyendko, and etc. Btw I think the hardest feat is grass/hard courters to clay since they are not used to sliding.

omg man your love for nadal is becoming sick
its not that people hate nadal when they say that grass is slower
and why do you take as insult to YOU when someone says anything against nadals game?!

 

[Nadal_Freak]

omg man your love for nadal is becoming sick
its not that people hate nadal when they say that grass is slower
and why do you take as insult to YOU when someone says anything against nadals game?!

It's pretty obvious when someone starts saying that grass is much slower that they are hinting what Nadal did is not that impressive anymore. I'm just stating that isn't true and the stats back up my argument as well the majority of clay courters prefer hardcourts over grass. Nadal is the exception.

 

[fastdunn]

Given the changes to grass over the years, I'd say clay-hard have become more of the opposites, meaning that claycourters will have the most difficult time on hard and vice versa. Not too many typical grasscourters today.

No not really. Hard courts also got slowed at the very same time frame when Wimbledon went under the changes 2001-2003. "Everything is slow" is what players say since 2004. Right now it's more about movements. Maybe it's different to move on organic and synthetic surfaces. Once they have that experience they can play same game pretty much.

Federer became the 1st prototype that can win on everything in this very homogenized conditions. Look how other players like Nadal do similarly.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

No not really. Hard courts also got slowed at the very same time frame when Wimbledon went under the changes 2001-2003. "Everything is slow" is what players say since 2004. Right now it's more about movements. Maybe it's different to move on organic and synthetic surfaces. Once they have that experience they can play same game pretty much.

Federer became the 1st prototype that can win on everything in this very homogenized conditions. Look how other players like Nadal do similarly.

Federer wins on polar opposites as well. Estoril and Halle are the biggest extremes (other than carpet tournaments) the ATP has to offer. So the speed of the court isn't that important to Federer. It has more to do with his form or the player he is playing. The only thing homogenized is that the players refuse to make volleying a big part of their game. I don't blame them though as the baseline game is so high these days.

 

[Murray_Maniac]

Definately hard to clay. Sampras & Federer were champions on hard, but couldnt win the french open. Its definately not between grass & clay because both Borg & Nadal have won them back to back & the courts have similar bounces, even though their speeds are very opposite. & its not clay to hardcourt. If you just look at the court specialists, youll see. Roddick and Blake have more trouble on clay than Robredo and Almagro have on hardcourt.

 

[fastdunn]

Federer wins on polar opposites as well. Estoril and Halle are the biggest extremes (other than carpet tournaments) the ATP has to offer. So the speed of the court isn't that important to Federer. It has more to do with his form or the player he is playing. The only thing homogenized is that the players refuse to make volleying a big part of their game. I don't blame them though as the baseline game is so high these days.

Federer is a top player. The average ranking of players he beat at Estoril and Halle was around #60.

Nadal won Masters on clay and real warm up tournaments on grass where all the real top players played.

I would say right now indoor carpet is the fastest now. Indoor carpet is Federer's worst surface so far.

 

[oranges]

Ridiculous statement to belittle Nadal's accomplishments. Wimbledon is faster than the US Open. Basing your argument on Nadal struggling on hardcourts while ignoring all the other clay courters that prefer hard over grass is very narrow-minded. Ferrero, Moya, Ferrer, Andreev, Davyendko, and etc. Btw I think the hardest feat is grass/hard courters to clay since they are not used to sliding.

This is not a thread about Nadal, I avoid them like a plague to avoid these kind of arguments. I don't give a monkey's what you think because I can predict it before you even post. Post your opinion on the issue if you have one and let others live. (You of all people calling someone narrowminded :shock: You can't even acknowledge that winning 14 GS titles and being No1 at the end of the year for 6 years is more of an achievement than what Nadal has achieved so far).

 

[Cenc]

opposites are clay and carpetbecause its very obvious:clay slower than grass that is slower than hard that is slower than carpetmaybe grass and rebound ace are similar (todays grass)@orangesi agree with youbut problem is that fans just assure themselves that nadals achievements are the greatest ever even though of course no one really thinks thati remember ivaniševićs comments from 2004 wimbledon (his last one) when he couldnt believe what these people had done to wimbledon (after tough win against volandri when he said that something is wrong when volandri can hit tons of return winners against him and i agree with that)

 

[coloskier]

I'd say the greatest feat is a clay court player winning on grass. Borg's achievement of this feat was the most impressive to me because the clay and grass were extremely polarized back then and he won the French-Wimbledon double three times.

I would say that the greatest feat would be a clay court player winning on a fast indoor carpet. We haven't seen that in a number of years. Grass is no longer a fast/unpredictable surface compared to the way it used to be.

 

[Cenc]

I would say that the greatest feat would be a clay court player winning on a fast indoor carpet. We haven't seen that in a number of years. Grass is no longer a fast/unpredictable surface compared to the way it used to be.

after you have posted such a nice post you must be prepared for a bomb attack by nadalfreak

 

[oranges]

Cilic's comment after Gstaadt was that he was surprised the clay there is faster than Wimbledon , but my comment was based on perception that players doing best on clay need fewer changes to their game to do well on grass than on HC. Those doing best on fast surfaces have always had the most difficult time on clay and that hasn't changed much. Is Rebound Ace still in use on some major tournament after AO changed the surface?

 

[BallzofSkill]

<Agrees with everything that is the OPPOSITE of what nadal freak says. It's the easiest way of being right and true.

 

[coloskier]

after you have posted such a nice post you must be prepared for a bomb attack by nadalfreak

I enjoyed having a battle of wits with an unarmed boy.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

opposites are clay and carpetbecause its very obvious:clay slower than grass that is slower than hard that is slower than carpetmaybe grass and rebound ace are similar (todays grass)@orangesi agree with youbut problem is that fans just assure themselves that nadals achievements are the greatest ever even though of course no one really thinks thati remember ivaniševićs comments from 2004 wimbledon (his last one) when he couldnt believe what these people had done to wimbledon (after tough win against volandri when he said that something is wrong when volandri can hit tons of return winners against him and i agree with that)

You are right about clay and carpet. Carpet is almost irrelevant nowadays. Even faster than carpet is tile and wood. Very few of these courts exist though. But grass is indeed faster than most outdoor hardcourts. Cincinnati might be the only one faster than Wimbledon.

 

[coloskier]

You are right about clay and carpet. Carpet is almost irrelevant nowadays. Even faster than carpet is tile and wood. Very few of these courts exist though. But grass is indeed faster than most outdoor hardcourts. Cincinnati might be the only one faster than Wimbledon.

One thing I do agree with you is about the effect of the bounce on play. What is more important at Wimbledon as far as changes go is that the ball now bounces much higher than it used to bounce. Nadal would have much more of a problem if he had to return everything that was skipping around his ankles.

 

[coloskier]

You are right about clay and carpet. Carpet is almost irrelevant nowadays. Even faster than carpet is tile and wood. Very few of these courts exist though. But grass is indeed faster than most outdoor hardcourts. Cincinnati might be the only one faster than Wimbledon.

I've played a tournament on wood (1974). What a trip. Just hit a decent slice serve and you automatically win the point because it comes at your opponent so fast. Nothing to slow down the ball at all and even with heavy topspin the ball skips and the spin does not take hold. Get a racket on the ball, block it back, and hope that the server is not coming in behind it because it is already past you.

 

[Guamanian G]

Ridiculous statement to belittle Nadal's accomplishments. Wimbledon is faster than the US Open.

huh? after everyone gripes about how slow they made the grass?
hardcourts like the uso are fast..
I think the transition from clay to hard is the toughest. Clay courters generally have more topspin and dont get that extra kick on faster courts.

 

[NamRanger]

It's pretty obvious when someone starts saying that grass is much slower that they are hinting what Nadal did is not that impressive anymore. I'm just stating that isn't true and the stats back up my argument as well the majority of clay courters prefer hardcourts over grass. Nadal is the exception.

Break Percentages have nothing to do with surface speed. BBC showed that the new Wimbledon courts are a considerable amount slower than the old ones. You cannot factually connect surface speed and break percentages, because you have no numbers on surface speed itself. Don't say you have stats when you don't.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Break Percentages have nothing to do with surface speed. BBC showed that the new Wimbledon courts are a considerable amount slower than the old ones. You cannot factually connect surface speed and break percentages, because you have no numbers on surface speed itself. Don't say you have stats when you don't.

BBC is wrong. They screwed up by giving a higher hit serve the same credit as a lower hit serve. They need more data like what I did rather than 1 randomly hit serve in 2003 and 2008. Not all grass courts at Wimbledon act the same and grass courts give irregular bounces.

 

[Cenc]

BBC is wrong.QUOTE]

hahahahahahaha man it seems that you are the only person in the world who knows the real speed of grass even people on bbc who are totally "connected" with wimbledon dont know omg

 

[Nadal_Freak]

hahahahahahaha man it seems that you are the only person in the world who knows the real speed of grass even people on bbc who are totally "connected" with wimbledon dont know omg

I would like an official explanation on how much effort they put in this. I doubt they did much. 1 serve on 2 surfaces is not enough evidence compared 127 matches of 3 to 5 sets stats. Are you saying 2008 serving is that much better? Maybe all surfaces secretly slowed down to make up for the incredible serving increase.

 

[Oui c'est moi.]

It's pretty obvious when someone starts saying that grass is much slower that they are hinting what Nadal did is not that impressive anymore. I'm just stating that isn't true and the stats back up my argument as well the majority of clay courters prefer hardcourts over grass. Nadal is the exception.

FFS people started saying that [about the grass being slower] long before Nadal ever made it to a Wimbledon final.
No one hates Nadal quite as much as you make it out to be. You are one paranoid bunny.

 

[GeoffB]

glossy gym floors

I've played a tournament on wood (1974). What a trip. Just hit a decent slice serve and you automatically win the point because it comes at your opponent so fast. Nothing to slow down the ball at all and even with heavy topspin the ball skips and the spin does not take hold. Get a racket on the ball, block it back, and hope that the server is not coming in behind it because it is already past you.

Oh yeah, I've been there. I never played a tournament, fortunately, but I did attend a sunday clinic in Paris when I was a kid (around 13 years old) that was held in a gymnasium. The court was very well marked (along with lines for basketball and other sports), and the net was solid, so it did, in some ways, feel like a real court. But man, trying to hit a ball off a glossy gym floor is ridiculous. Spin may affect the trajectory of the ball, but once it bounces, the ball pretty much just slips off the floor.

It's an unsuitable environment for tennis, but I'd still take it over no tennis. Paris doesn't have the greatest weather in the winter, so I'd have gone weeks without playing otherwise. I kind of enjoyed it.

 

[Eviscerator]

Ridiculous statement to belittle Nadal's accomplishments. .

I did not read his post like that at all. Maybe you are a little too much of a Nadal fan or too sensitive.

 

[Fed_Express]

transitioning from clay to hard courts is the most challenging i think. I mean there are so many people who can hit really well on hard courts because the balls go through the court, whereas on clay the ball tends to sit up. one could make an argument for grass courts but since barely any pro tournaments are played on grass, it's hard for EVERYONE to get used to it. carpet courts are for ljubicic.

 

[Cenc]

transitioning from clay to hard courts is the most challenging i think. I mean there are so many people who can hit really well on hard courts because the balls go through the court, whereas on clay the ball tends to sit up. one could make an argument for grass courts but since barely any pro tournaments are played on grass, it's hard for EVERYONE to get used to it. carpet courts are for ljubicic.

i dont think any court is for ljubičić