Greater claycourter: Pete Sampras or Andy Murray

Who is the greater claycourter?

  • Total voters
    30
E

Epic

Banned
Pete Sampras:

French Open:
1 semifinal
3 quarterfinals

Masters 1000:
1 title
2 semifinals
1 quarterfinal

Overall:
3 titles (1 Masters, 2 250s)
2 finals (2 250s)



Andy Murray:

French Open:
2 semifinals
2 quarterfinals

Masters 1000:
1 title
3 semifinals
5 quarterfinals

Overall:
2 titles (1 Masters, 1 250)
0 finals
 
Last edited:
As you can see, Andy Murray has done better than Pete Sampras at the Grand Slam and Masters levels. But Pete Sampras has done better at the 250s.

I made a typo but I can't seem to edit it. Doesn't this forum allow editing posts? The typo is that Pete Sampras has 2 250s, and not 1.
 
Murray has only ever played one 250. Wait until the end of his career before comparing. Actually he may never play another, he prefers the big tournaments, this one was played with the idea of getting his first clay title. He doesn't need to play any more.
 
Sampras for sure. Murray is better on paper. But Sampras played in probably the toughest clay era there has ever been in early/mid 90s. Murray plays in one of the weakest.
 
Epic said:
As you can see, Andy Murray has done better than Pete Sampras at the Grand Slam and Masters levels. But Pete Sampras has done better at the 250s.

I made a typo but I can't seem to edit it. Doesn't this forum allow editing posts? The typo is that Pete Sampras has 2 250s, and not 1.
Click to expand...

You need to get to 50 posts (I think it is) and then you will be able to edit them!
 
m2nk2 said:
Sampras for sure. Murray is better on paper. But Sampras played in probably the toughest clay era there has ever been in early/mid 90s. Murray plays in one of the weakest.
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Hmmm.. can you really call the era of Rafael Nadal one of the weakest clay eras? :wink:
 
Murray is the better clay court player. His style of play is very suited for clay, but for some reason he never had good results on it until recent.

However, I'd still pick Sampras to win a majority of clay court encounters against Murray if they were to play.
 
Phonco said:
Murray is the better clay court player. His style of play is very suited for clay, but for some reason he never had good results on it until recent.

However, I'd still pick Sampras to win a majority of clay court encounters against Murray if they were to play.
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I don't agree with that. He doesn't use that much spin and his net clearance is very low, qualities that usually work better on other surfaces. He won Madrid because he's simply playing very well, but when playing like that, he's even more dangerous on grass and on hardcourt.
 
What I meant was the fact that he plays a very consistent, grinding play style while having a very good slice and fitness. All things that are key qualities to great clay courters with maybe the exception of that slice.

Although spin is very important, I don't think that is a big factor for Murray. I'm sure he's skilled enough to be able to vary his net clearance. I'm sure there are many players that have low net clearance, yet find success on clay i.e Del Potro or Ferrer backhand.
 
Phonco said:
Murray is the better clay court player. His style of play is very suited for clay, but for some reason he never had good results on it until recent.
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I don't think that's a very good argument. Both players have clay as their worst surface, but Pete Sampras is the far greater player overall. So what Sampras lacks in terms of a more incompatible style of play, he makes up for in being a better quality player overall.

So basically, the argument should come down to stats and facts.
 
m2nk2 said:
Sampras for sure. Murray is better on paper. But Sampras played in probably the toughest clay era there has ever been in early/mid 90s. Murray plays in one of the weakest.
Click to expand...

When someone says "weak era" or "strong era", they automatically lose the argument, in my opinion, as that's the last resort when facts and figures don't favor you.

Basically, if you're gonna play that game, you might as well say Roddick is a greater player than Sampras because he was playing in a "strong era" and Sampras in a "weak era".
 
ROFLMAO @ the Poll results. Good lord. Sampras is truly hated around here.

Sampras has far more clay conquests than freakin Murray does

What about Sampras single handily winning the Davis CUp for America against the Russians?
 
90's Clay said:
ROFLMAO @ the Poll results. Good lord. Sampras is truly hated around here.

Sampras has far more clay conquests than freakin Murray does

What about Sampras single handily winning the Davis CUp for America against the Russians?
Click to expand...

Yeah, beating clay wizards like Chesnokov totally outstrips handing Rafa the most one-sided clay whooping of his career.
 
Holding clay wins over:
-Bruguera
-Courier
-Muster
-Kafelnikov
-Agassi

is better than one sole win vs. a Nadal who isn't even that great on clay these days and is losing to a bunch of mugs on clay now
 
Sampras was not a competent clay player. He played on clay and somehow achieved some minor success with the tremendous talent he possessed. But he was a terrible clay player.

Everyone is a better clay player than Sampras. Murray would bagel Sampras once every 3 times he played him.
 
90's Clay said:
Holding clay wins over:
-Bruguera
-Courier
-Muster
-Kafelnikov
-Agassi

is better than one sole win vs. a Nadal who isn't even that great on clay these days and is losing to a bunch of mugs on clay now
Click to expand...

Nadal has more French Open titles than all of them combined.
 
JanowiczJ said:
Sampras was not a competent clay player. He played on clay and somehow achieved some minor success with the tremendous talent he possessed. But he was a terrible clay play player.

Everyone is a better clay player than Sampras. Murray would bagel Sampras once every 3 times he played him.
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Wow.. I already listed Sampras' conquests on clay.. Not the work of someone "terrible" on clay.

You're comments don't hold any water.

Meanwhile, Murray has a sole win over a CRAP Nadal on clay who's losing to a bunch of nobodies these days on his best surface. In CLEAR decline.
 
90's Clay said:
ROFLMAO @ the Poll results. Good lord. Sampras is truly hated around here.

Sampras has far more clay conquests than freakin Murray does

What about Sampras single handily winning the Davis CUp for America against the Russians?
Click to expand...

You can't argue against results. Murray has outperformed Sampras at Grand Slam level and Masters level. Sampras outperformed Murray at the 250 level. And arguing for the players Sampras beat is a poor argument indeed. Nadal is a completely different beast to anyone Sampras has ever faced on clay.
 
JanowiczJ said:
Sampras was not a competent clay player. He played on clay and somehow achieved some minor success with the tremendous talent he possessed. But he was a terrible clay player.

Everyone is a better clay player than Sampras. Murray would bagel Sampras once every 3 times he played him.
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Not everyone is better. Otherwise, the rest of your post sounds about right. Given his talent, he massively underachieved. Massively.
 
90's Clay said:
Wow.. I already listed Sampras' conquests on clay.. Not the work of someone "terrible" on clay.

You're comments don't hold any water.

Meanwhile, Murray has a sole win over a CRAP Nadal on clay who's losing to a bunch of nobodies these days on his best surface. In CLEAR decline.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't Sampras manage better results than Murray at the French Open and the clay Masters?
 
Epic said:
Why couldn't Sampras manage better results than Murray at the French Open and the clay Masters?
Click to expand...


Sampras ran into the eventual French Open winners early (Courier, Bruguera,Agassi etc) so that probably had something to do with it.

Must we forgot, slam draws were tougher in the 90s due to the seeding system so you ran into bigger threats earlier on in the slams
 
Yes, he had an absurd second serve (wont even talk about the first) Forehan and a tremendous mental edge over most of the tour, that alone warranted him some 'free' wins.

But he was a terrible clay player. There's a difference, believe me. Once the point went neutral, it was over for him.

OTOH, I'll agree with you that it's a weak era for clay players. Nadal would be the GOAT in any era, but he wouldn't be sitting on 9 RGs by now if he was playing in the 90's. 5 at most.
 
90's Clay said:
Sampras ran into the eventual French Open winners early (Courier, Bruguera,Agassi etc) so that probably had something to do with it.
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Murray was stopped by Nadal twice at the French Open. And Nadal is a far, far greater claycourt player than anyone Sampras ever faced at the French Open. So this is a very poor argument. If anything, Murray was stopped by stronger competition.

Must we forgot, slam draws were tougher in the 90s due to the seeding system so you ran into bigger threats earlier on in the slams
Click to expand...
Who are these bigger threats that Sampras lost to? Schaller, Delgado, Blanco, and Gaudenzi?
 
90's Clay said:
ROFLMAO @ the Poll results. Good lord. Sampras is truly hated around here.

Sampras has far more clay conquests than freakin Murray does

What about Sampras single handily winning the Davis CUp for America against the Russians?
Click to expand...

That's not true. Most of the members on this forum are from USA so there are more pro-Sampras than pro-Murray. Sampras gets less scrutinize, more lenient than foreign players.
 
After much deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that it is close to tie right now due to the following:

1. Murray's better FO results are made up for by Sampras's DC performance on clay.

2. Murray's better Masters results are made up for by Sampras's 250 results.

If Murray can make the Quarterfinal or better at the French Open this year, I will put him ahead of Sampras on clay.
 
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